Um, WHAT??? Bill Gates, Toshiba in early talks on nuclear reactor

[Fleshdancer]

:wtf: Corporate built and owned nuclear reactors? Oh yes. This will end well.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100323/ts_afp/japannuclearusgatescompanytoshiba_20100323053821


TOKYO (AFP) – A company backed by Microsoft founder Bill Gates and Toshiba are in early talks to jointly develop a small nuclear reactor, the Japanese electronics giant said Tuesday.

The Nikkei business daily earlier reported that the two sides would team up to develop a compact next-generation reactor that can operate for up to 100 years without refueling to provide emission-free energy.

The daily said the joint development would focus on the Traveling-Wave Reactor (TWR), which consumes depleted uranium as fuel. Current light-water reactors require refueling every few years.

"Toshiba has entered into preliminary talks with TerraPower," said Toshiba spokesman Keisuke Ohmori. "We are looking into the possibility of working together."

[smiley_glad_hands]

1. Um, who else would own or build nuclear reactors? Our government generally doesnt. eom

[Fleshdancer]

5. my bad

Just assumed it was all government/utility owned and heavily regulated.

[smiley_glad_hands]

21. Its heavily regulated, but commercial reactors are largely owned and manufactured by ....

the private sector.

[FBaggins]

7. See post #6 n/t

[wtmusic]

2. Um, virtually all nuclear reactors are "corporate built and owned".

:eyes:

[FBaggins]

6. That's incorrect.

The majority of reactors in the US, particularly of the SMALL reactors (as these would be), are owned and operated by the US Navy.

[Fleshdancer]

11. that makes more sense to me

Thanks for posting.

[harkadog]

19. What are you talking about?

I'm unaware of any commercial reactors that are operated by the Navy or any other government agency. Internet misinformation.

[Codeine]

25. The majority of American nuclear reactors

are those on subs and carriers. The poster is needling you; he knows that's not the subject.

[FBaggins]

28. Why is that "not the subject" ?

The poster claimed that the government doesn't own and operate reactors. If, when debating this statement, you have to say "not counting reactors owned and operated by the government"... you haven't exactly made any point at all, have you?

[FBaggins]

27. Who said anything about commercial?

If that were the standard, the post wouldn't have made any sense. It would be like saying that all blue cars are blue.

[harkadog]

32. It's you that doesn't make any sense and everyone knows it.

From the context of the entire OP anyone knows it is commercial reactors which are the subject.

[smiley_glad_hands]

20. On naval vessels. lol

[Gman2]

3. I heard GOOGLE was getting into energy generation. too.

[madokie]

24. A couple years ago they bought 800 acres of MAIP

near here. They built a data center but have it in mothballs right now or so they say.

MAIP Mid America Industrial Park

[mikelgb]

4. Bluescreen of massive death

[Skidmore]

8. May give a whole new meaning to the blue screen of death. nt

[Junkdrawer]

9. A liquid sodium fast-breeder variant?

...

Reactor physics
Papers and presentations on the TerraPower TWR describe a pool-type reactor cooled by liquid sodium. The reactor is fueled primarily by depleted uranium, but requires a small amount of enriched uranium or other fissile fuel to initiate fission. Some of the fast-spectrum neutrons produced by fission are absorbed by neutron capture in adjacent fertile fuel (i.e. the non-fissile depleted uranium), converting it into plutonium by the nuclear reaction:



Initially, the core is charged with fertile material. A small amount of fissile fuel is added to one end of the core. Once the reactor is started, four zones form in the core: the depleted zone, which contains mostly fission products and leftover fuel; the fission zone, where fission of bred fuel takes place; the breeding zone, where fissile material is created by neutron capture; and the fresh zone, which contains unreacted fertile material. The energy-generating fission zone advances through the core over time, effectively consuming fertile material in front of it and leaving spent fuel behind. Heat from fission is converted into electricity using conventional steam turbines.

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_wave_reactor

The Japanese have more experience with this design than anybody else, but it is not good. And some fast breeder designs CAN have a nuclear explosion in the event of an accident.

[FBaggins]

12. Sounds like it.

And some fast breeder designs CAN have a nuclear explosion in the event of an accident.

Sounds like one should avoid those designs then, eh?

[Junkdrawer]

13. This design may not allow nuclear explosions (don't know) BUT liquid sodium is nasty....

it explodes on contact with water.

Here's a Google of "liquid sodium reactor accidents"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=liquid+sodium+reactor+accidents&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

[FBaggins]

16. It isn't just liquid sodium that does that.

It does in solid form as well.

If water isn't part of the closed system... why bother with that concern?

Here's a Google of "liquid sodium reactor accidents"


Nope... in quotes that doesn't come up with any hits at all. Can you find one that actually deals with water causing a problem?

[Junkdrawer]

17. "Fire by Sodium Coolant Leak at Prototype Fast Breeder reactor, Monju"

On December 8, 1995, a prototype fast breeder reactor, Monju, located in Tsuruga City, 350km west of Tokyo, was operating at 40% power. The Power Reactor and Nuclear Fuel Development Corp (PNC), a government controlled organization, operated this reactor. At 19:47 high temperature liquid sodium coolant at one of the three secondary heat exchangers started leaking through a broken thermometer sheath (designed by IH Company, OD: 10mm, ID: 4mm, Length: 150mm) on the piping and it ignited on contact with air. As shown in Fig. 1, the primary heat exchangers are designed to take heat out of the core of the reactor to the secondary heat exchangers, which then transfer the heat to steam generators for power. Because of this design, it was a simple fire caused by the leakage of chemically reactive but non-radioactive sodium coolant. But due to the delay in shutting down of the reactor, 640kg of the sodium leaked in 3 hours and caused some unexpected damage by the fire and chemical reactions to the surrounding structure.

The sheath was found to have been broken by following design errors such as,

The sharp cut edge design of the sheath as shown in Fig. 2, which caused stress concentration and breakage,
Neglect of newly established mechanical design analysis of vibration of the sheath parallel to the sodium flow and
The IH company's failure to consider the fact that liquid sodium is 120 times more heat conductive than water and to use the another contractor's (the H company's) better and simpler design for those of the primary heat exchangers. See Fig. 3.

...

http://www.onlineethics.org/cms/22335.aspx

[FBaggins]

18. No water involved

And the failure was in the pumping of the liquid coolant through heat exchangers.

IIRC, the referenced design doesn't involve pumped sodium.

Moreover... this isn't a "nuclear" accident (no radiation leakage). There are fires (and even massive explosions) at "normal" power plants too.

[MattBaggins]

22. So how much weapons grade plutonium do these things make?

Is it really a good idea to have miniature breeder reactors with no oversight sold around the world?

[joeybee12]

10. This says a lot about his push for education "reform"

What a dick.

[lbrtbell]

14. Even scarier...

MICROSOFT SOFTWARE anywhere near a nuclear reactor.

[Greyhound]

23. The man is evil incarnate. Everything he touches turns to evil, he can't even give money away

without a hidden agenda that counters any good he might accidentally do.

[Ikonoklast]

36. That is the silliest thing I've read in a long time.

Bill Gates haters are irrational.


"Everything he touches turns to evil."


Really.

[Greyhound]

37. Only if you're dull enough to take it literally.

[FarCenter]

15. Toshiba Westinghouse and GE Hitachi are the two US manufactures of nuclear reactors

[Initech]

26. It would be really scary if the reactor were powered by Windows Vista.

[Generic Other]

29. From the man who brought us Windows OS and IE???

And viruses and bugs? Lord help us all!

[Statistical]

30. Um? Who do you think built and owns the 104 existing power reactors in this country? LOL

[Statistical]

31. Traveling Wave Reactors is pretty cool stuff. I can run on waste.

A small of amount of enriched uranium or plutonium starts the wave. The rest of the 100 year fuel suspply is depleted uranium (you know the stuff killing kids in Iraq). As the wave moves it breeds the depleted uranium into new fuel which it uses to continue the reactors. that then breeds next wave of fuel, etc.

Never needs to be refueled, turns US depleted uranium waste into electrical power.

We got a lot of depleted uranium......

[KamaAina]

33. Great news for the Iraqis

thanks to the Bush* war machine, they've got enough depleted uranium to power the whole region for centuries. :eyes:

[MilesColtrane]

34. WIN D'OHS!!

[Ignis]

35. I, for one, welcome our new Nuclear Microsoft overlords.