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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 02:05 PM
Original message
Good TPM Article On The Likely Results Of SCOTUS Challenge To HCR....
Edited on Tue Mar-23-10 02:06 PM by BlooInBloo
I understand that everyone here at DU is a constitutional expert, but I thought it might be nice to see what some pros had to say.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/could_scotus_be_the_death_panel_for_health-care_reform.php

...

Jack Balkin, a constitutional law professor at Yale Law School, extends that argument. In a recent blog post, he notes that in the Raich case, Justice Scalia found that Congress can use the Commerce Clause to regulate, as Balkin put it, "even non-economic activities if it believes that this is necessary to make its regulation of interstate commerce effective" (itals TPM's). People who don't buy health insurance, Balkin argues, aren't simply "doing nothing," as Rivkin, Barnett et al. claim. These people pass on their health-care costs by going to the emergency room, or buying over-the-counter cures. "All these activities are economic, and they have a cumulative effect on interstate commerce," writes Balkin.

Several respected conservative legal experts essentially agree that the court would have to radically break with past rulings to strike down the law. John McGinnis, a former Bush 41 administration Justice Department official and a past winner of an award from the Federalist Society, told TPMmuckraker that the court could rule in favor of the AGs only by taking a radical Originalist view of jurisprudence -- one that all but ignores precedent. "I think the only person who shares is Justice Thomas." said McGinnis, now a constitutional law scholar at Northwestern Law School. "It's a very difficult argument to make under current precedent."

...

Frederick Schauer, a constitutional law scholar at the University of Virginia, expresses what seems to be the most reliable view. He notes to TPMmuckraker that in the Lopez case, and in a subsequent 2000 case involving the Violence Against Women Act, the Supreme Court has held that there are limits on what constitutes commercial activity under the Commerce Clause -- shifting from the "anything goes" approach that had predominated since the New Deal. Despite the subsequent medical marijuana ruling, Schauer says, those cases offer the "slightest glimmer" to opponents of the bill -- but not much more than that. So twenty years ago, said Schauer, there would have been essentially no chance of the court striking down the legislation. Today, he says, "it's a real long-shot," but not completely out of the question.

There's something else worth considering, though. The fears of reform supporters rest in part on the worry that the Supreme Court's five conservative justices will simply ignore the relevant jurisprudence and use their authority to make a nakedly partisan ruling -- as, many argue, they already did not so long ago.

That seems highly unlikely. Striking down health-care reform, despite the clear weight of evidence that it fits well within the scope of the Commerce Clause, would "be more aggressive than Bush v. Gore," says Kermit Roosevelt, a constitutional law professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School. "They're probably not eager to do that again."
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. If they do succeed, I hope Obama and the Dems have two words for them:
Edited on Tue Mar-23-10 02:16 PM by rocktivity
Public Option.

:evilgrin:
rocktivity
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. One of the commenters suggested similarly, to use that as a threat.
:)
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes, This Was A Good Article And Makes It Pretty Clear It's A Shitty Case
Edited on Tue Mar-23-10 02:22 PM by Beetwasher
And for all the posters who can't come up with where the constitution was supposedly violated, this is the weak answer:

"Doug Kmiec, a former Reagan administration Justice Department official, and conservative legal scholar, echoes that view. "The idea that a regulatory requirement (whether to purchase insurance or to purchase a smoke alarm) violates the Constitution by exceeding the scope of the commerce power was rejected in the age when Robert Fulton's steam ships were at the center of case controversy and the proposition has not gained validity with the passage into the 21st century," Kmiec, now the Obama administration's ambassador to Malta, told TPMmuckraker."

This is what I'm trying to get from people who claim this is unconstitutional. In order for something to be unconstitutional it has to violate the constitution. In this case, the horribly weak claim is that it violates the enumeration of powers by exceeding the scope of the commerce clause. IOW, it's prohibited because it exceeds the scope of the clause. It's a very, very weak case.

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why not use the Commerce Clause to mandate we purchase Police Insurance?
Edited on Tue Mar-23-10 02:09 PM by leftstreet
Life insurance, 911 insurance? These 'costs' are also 'passed on' to the citizenry, no?

:shrug:

This is actually a pretty big deal
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. Whuzzat? You don't think I'm an expert on the Constimahtution?
Why I oughtta...
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yeah, LOL, I basically got called an idiot in another thread when I asked how
people could be so sure that this was going to overturned and was unconstitutional. I was told it was "common sense" it was unconstitutional. You know, any idiot could see....

Whatever. I didn't expect that here on DU when we are supposedly among friends, but...whatever.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yah, yah... I know... You looked into its soul and all that....
:P
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thank you for posting this, I appreciate it. Good article.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. Best analysis so far..
Looks like the GOP has no case.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. "No case" might be going a bit far, but they defo have a very tough row to hoe.
As one of my teachers was always fond of putting it.
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. Opponents of HCR are in a box
no matter what they do, Obama will set the box on fire w/ something else (like public option)if they keep persuing the destruction of this legislation.

Keep it up...
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. "Go ahead with your HRC lawsuit...make my day."
Edited on Tue Mar-23-10 03:45 PM by rocktivity
"If you win the case, I go nuclear with a public option. If you try to drag this out until after the mid-term elections, I'll go nuclear with a public option BEFORE the mid-term elections. And if you lose the case, well, you'll end up looking like even BIGGER losers. We, on the other hand, have NOTHING to lose, because no matter what happens, the Dems and I win.

"So? How lucky ARE you feeling, punks?"




:headbang:
rocktivity
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Sounds Good To Me
But why do we need to go to court to get single payer?
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