Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard

[JohnLocke]

Young, Gifted, and Not Getting Into Harvard
By Michael Winerip--New York Times
Sunday, April 29, 2007
----
On a Sunday morning a few months back, I interviewed my final Harvard applicant of the year. After saying goodbye to the girl and watching her and her mother drive off, I headed to the beach at the end of our street for a run.
It was a spectacular winter day, bright, sunny and cold; the tide was out, the waves were high, and I had the beach to myself. As I ran, I thought the same thing I do after all these interviews: Another amazing kid who won’t get into Harvard.
That used to upset me. But I’ve changed.
Over the last decade, I’ve done perhaps 40 of these interviews, which are conducted by alumni across the country. They’re my only remaining link to my alma mater; I’ve never been back to a reunion or a football game, and my total donations since graduating in the 1970s do not add up to four figures.
No matter how glowing my recommendations, in all this time only one kid, a girl, got in, many years back. I do not tell this to the eager, well-groomed seniors who settle onto the couch in our den. They’re under too much pressure already. Better than anyone, they know the odds, particularly for a kid from a New York suburb.
(...)
These kids who don’t get into Harvard spend summers on schooners in Chesapeake Bay studying marine biology, building homes for the poor in Central America, touring Europe with all-star orchestras.
Summers, I dug trenches for my local sewer department during the day, and sold hot dogs at Fenway Park at night.
As I listen to them, I can visualize their parents, striving to teach excellence. One girl I interviewed described how her father made her watch the 2004 convention speeches by both President Bush and Senator John Kerry and then tell him which she liked better and why.
What kind of kid doesn’t get into Harvard? Well, there was the charming boy I interviewed with 1560 SATs. He did cancer research in the summer; played two instruments in three orchestras; and composed his own music. He redid the computer system for his student paper, loved to cook and was writing his own cookbook. One of his specialties was snapper poached in tea and served with noodle cake.
At his age, when I got hungry, I made myself peanut butter and jam on white bread and got into Harvard.
Some take 10 AP courses and get top scores of 5 on all of them.
I took one AP course and scored 3.
(...)
I used to say goodbye at my door, but since my own kids reached this age, I walk them out to their cars, where a parent waits. I always say the same thing to the mom or dad: “You’ve done a wonderful job — you should be very proud.” And I mean it.
But I’ve stopped feeling bad about the looming rejection. When my four were little, I used to hope a couple might go to Harvard. I pushed them, but by the end of middle school it was clear my twins, at least, were not made that way. They rebelled, and I had to learn to see who they were.
I came to understand that my own focus on Harvard was a matter of not sophistication but narrowness. I grew up in an unworldly blue-collar environment. Getting perfect grades and attending an elite college was one of the few ways up I could see.
My four have been raised in an upper-middle-class world. They look around and see lots of avenues to success. My wife’s two brothers struggled as students at mainstream colleges and both have made wonderful full lives, one as a salesman, the other as a builder. Each found his own best path. Each knows excellence.
That day, running on the beach, I was lost in my thoughts when a voice startled me. “Pops, hey, Pops!” It was Sammy, one of my twins, who’s probably heading for a good state school. He was in his wetsuit, surfing alone in the 30-degree weather, the only other person on the beach. “What a day!” he yelled, and his joy filled my heart.
----
REad the rest here.

[Blue_Tires]

1. wait another four years

and then they will be young, gifted college grads that can't find jobs!

[BluePatriot]

47. Freakin' amen to that

My job makes me go home and weep at least once weekly. I am bored off my ass and can't adequately communicate "hellllo? I can do more than this!" without coming off as a stuck up snobby brat. I fear going to grad school will just over educate me more. My whole focus was on going to college and getting a J-O-B at the exclusion of so much else. I just realized yesterday I don't even know how to pursue a hobby that doesn't involve being graded, judged, or critiqued. It must be why politics is my only interest *sigh*

...must...get...3...years...experience...in...an...office...

2 years 2 months, but who's counting?

*sobs at system*

[MichiganVote]

2. Most of those colleges are overrated anyway

[Gabi Hayes]

3. don't we have a Harvard MBA and a Harvard Law grad running (ruining?) our

country, and our justice department, (dis)respectively?

both recipients of their own particular sort of affirmative action, no doubt

[Madspirit]

8. Bush is Yale....n/t

[Gabi Hayes]

14. Harvard. MBA from Harvard

'gentleman' 'scholar' undergrad at Yale

[Madspirit]

15. Thanks!

I like to have my facts straight. Thank-you.
Lee

[terisan]

10. So true. The Harvard-Yale-Government Club is Destroying Us. Plus these schools make money

on the Financial Aid Racket----taxpayer funded.

[ElizabethDC]

18. I disagree. John Kerry went to Yale. Bill Clinton went to Yale Law.

bad things can come from Harvard and Yale, but, IMO, many good things can, too. I don't think it has too much to do with the school.

[terisan]

26. I think there is a "leadership" club that arose a long time ago in the US-almost

an educational mafia comprised of members of families who obtained legacy and donor-based admissions, and perhaps, family reputation admissions to these two schools. The section of our society thus represented in the ranks of Harvard and Yale graduates was a small and narrow one but has wielded undue influence. I believe we have suffered severely from their sense of entitlement, elitism, lack of knowledge about people other than those they mingle with. Bill Clinton was a meritocracy admission and I think his not being a member of this club was one reason he endured as much bad press as he did.

Kerry undoubtedly earned his degree but I believe that he falls back too often on the rules of clubiness and I don't think he has a sufficiently broad and deep understanding of the people of the US (although serving in Vietnam certainly helped.

I believe that the clubiness leads to graduates helping each other into positions of power. I think we need a wider pool of talent and capability from which to choose.

David Halberstam, who wrote The Best and the Brightest. understood this in the context of our disaster in Vietnam (Yes Johnson was not a member of the club, but his war architects were). Too many people who have been told that they are "the best and the brightest" have believed the hype. Some of these hype-believers architected the Iraq War.

GW has a degree from Yale and a degree from Harvard. (Texas turned him down for law school). These are listed as earned degrees but they were purchased as surely as if from a diploma mill.

[wellst0nev0ter]

44. To Be Fair, Kerry Got Slightly Lower Grades At Yale Than Bush

To me, that's a very minor chink in his armor since Kerry has proven himself as a vastly more capable statesman and patriot and a more accomplished man than Bush can ever dream of being. Furthermore, unlike most of the DUers here, I wouldn't mind seeing Kerry run for president. But the truth is the truth.

[terisan]

46. I think it is the admissions that have been an entitlement issue. Grading is often

subjective and may reflect outside help or lack thereof.


I know that a few years ago Harvard made a change in its granting of degrees "with honors" because of the great precentage being granted.

I think there are many colleges with high (but possibly different-such as small class size) educational standards and high ethical standards. I would like to see more of these graduates in positions of power in government.

I have no doubt about Kerry's intellect and his personal standards.

I have thought that one of the tragedies of England was that its class system resulted in too many of its talented citizens left in inferior positions and too many of its untalented upper class running the country.

[JuniperLea]

20. Interviewed an intern a couple of weeks ago

For a position that requires solid writing skills... this kid will be a Harvard grad next year... can't put a good sentence together to save himself. Someone posted his resume cover letter in the hall... and nearly everyone ridiculed it severly... the notes left were biting, to say the least. Political science major.

Very good schools are turning out very poor writers.

[ElizabethDC]

21. I recently had to edit a piece written by a Harvard prof

for an academic journal at another school. It was so bad, we couldn't publish it. I'm sure that sort of thing is the exception rather than the rule. At least I hope so.

[rockymountaindem]

4. If they think applying to college is high-pressure

wait for grad school :crazy:

[Lex]

5. Much better to choose a college that fits you rather than trying

to twist yourself to fit into a particular college.

A Harvard education, nor a Wall Street job, is the key to a fulfilled life, imho.

[hedgehog]

6. My daughter applied to an excellent state university and not only

admitted but was offered a scholarship. Several week slater, MIT informed her that she wasn't accepted because she hadn't submitted her application essay. Her commnet? "That's OK, MIT was my safety school anyways!"

[theoldman]

7. I read the article and still do not understand why these young

and gifted students cannot get into Harvard. Why don't the just go to another school? There are other schools where you can get a good education. BTW all the young and gifted students we know have not had any problem getting into the top schools in the US.

[hedgehog]

11. Given that 2.7 million kids graduate from high school each year,

not all of them can go to Harvard! It's just too bad so many bright kids and/or their parents think Harvard is the only college in the entire country!

[LisaL]

34. It's cause Harvard has a low acceptance rate.

Obviously these students will have to apply to another school since they won't get into Harvard.
By the way, where I am from, universities had entrance exams. Kind of levels the playing field.

[MedleyMisty]

9. Who cares?

It's not like their chances of getting a job that would pay enough to repay their student loans once they got out would be that high anyway. It never says why they don't get in, but I would guess because they're not rich and/or well-connected.

College itself is way overrated, and "elite" colleges even more so.

[hedgehog]

12. I suspect the irony here is that many people think the path to

being rich and well-connected goes through Harvard when in fact going to Harvard is a result of being rich and well connected. O quota of the best and brightest kids in the country are admitted in order to maintain the facade that Harvard is an educational institution and not a place to park the offspring of the upper classes while they mature into something that looks employable.

[MN ChimpH8R]

19. I can't speak for the College, but the real professional schools

like law and medicine, as well as the M.A. and Ph. D. programs at Harvard are generally superb. I do not include the Business school, because FWIW they don't have face a post-grad licensing exam (like MDs and JDs) or justify their work before a committee, like MA and PhD students do. Biz schools I've seen are pretty much like undergrad - write your papers and take your tests and you get through.

When I was at the law school in the mid-late 1980s, it was definitely more diverse than I expected it to be.

[Missy Vixen]

28. Uh, we know of at least one graduate who was neither rich nor well-connected

Let's see here: Came from a blue-collar family, worked his way through school, worked for a law firm in New York City to pay off his student loans when he got out of school so he could go into public service.

We can all hope there are more like him at Harvard.

Julie

[hedgehog]

31. I don't recognize the picture, but I'm willing to suggest he's one of those

who provide intellectual cover for all the legacies!

[MountainLaurel]

33. Ding, ding, ding

We have a winner.

The Price of Admission by Daniel Golden

[WindRavenX]

13. College has made me who I am: a critically thinking, well-rounded woman

I encourage liberal art education highly--you are exposed to *everything*.

[Madspirit]

17. I LOVED college

It is life-changing for some.
Lee

[WindRavenX]

22. I was privileged to get a Jesuit education

Although going to Boston College has been infuriating at times politically, my education was top notch. I feel like I've undergone a metamorphose intellectually. I was a Democrat in name when I came in, but I was not a radical activist. Now I am hard core radical.

The student loans are worth it, imo. I come from a lower middle class family, so the financial aid I recieved made it possible to attend such an expensive school.

[Madspirit]

25. Jesuit

I went to The University of Texas and one of my psychology professors was a Jesuit priest. We became fast friends and I used to go lunch with the priests. They had one refrigerator for food and one for beer...<g> It was back in the Viet Nam war days and many of them were anti-war activists. It was very cool.
I got grants because...I'm nuts. Truly. I had been in a mental institution and I got grants and help from the government because of that. They used to offer so much more help back then. I don't know how kids do it today.
Lee

[WindRavenX]

30. Jesuits are very progressive--they're usually the only religious authority who side w/ GLBTQers

We have many jesuits on campus who are gay. However, they are silenced.

But they are very awesome people.

[Madspirit]

35. It's Odd

Forgive me if you're Catholic but I just think it's odd. I find it a very repressive religion and yet, some of THE MOST progressive people EVER come from that religion. The Berrigans come to mind and the sisters who were with them. I am ashamed I've forgotten the Sister's names. ...and Sister Prejean, (sp.), the one "Dead Man Walking" is based on. My many Jesuit friends and I even have a couple of nun friends. My girlfriend of 15 years is a lapsed Catholic. SO many progressive and wonderful Catholics. As a second generation atheist, I am so confused...<g> Some of the BEST people...yet a very repressive religion. I am awash in confusion...<g>
Lee

[WindRavenX]

37. lol, I'm an atheist.

Catholics are either really really awesome, or really, really, REALLY lame.

[DesertRat]

39. I like to think of myself in the former category.

;-)

[Nikia]

23. Students from poor backgrounds benefit more from attending an elite school

Because they can network with the rich and influential as well as professors who are well regarded in the intellectual community.
Really though, smaller colleges are probably actually better for that sort of thing. It is easier to get to know people, especially your professors. I found my small college experience better for actual learning as well.
I am glad that I went to a small liberal arts college. Yes, I think that going to a state school would have been an inferior education, but so probably would have been Harvard or Yale or another elite large university.

[ElizabethDC]

24. How big are Harvard and Yale?

I mean, size is a relative thing. The state schools in my state (Florida) have 30,000+ students. I go to a private university that has 6,000 students, which I consider small-ish in comparison to a state school, but I guess it's large in comparison to a small liberal arts school with 2,000 students or fewer?

[FrenchieCat]

32. Undergraduate Freshman Class at Harvard is approx 1,900 each year.

[gravity]

16. Harvard isn't going to make or break anyone

The talented kids who got rejected will do just as well in life going to a state school as they would at Harvard.

[LisaL]

27. Life is hard.

LOL.
Many people wish they had those young gifted not getting into Harvard students problems.

[FrenchieCat]

29. My daughter is in her 2nd year at Harvard.......

And I know this.....Having or not having money doesn't stop one from getting in.

I'll also say this; she earned getting in there in so many ways, it ain't even funny!

[Madspirit]

36. Congrats to your daughter!

I've had a lot of Harvard friends. I lived in Cambridge in my young hippie days. I loved hanging out there. The walls REALLY are covered in ivy. ...and it's so old. The oldest university in America, right? ...and Cambridge is lovely.
Lee

[FrenchieCat]

38. Thanks!

And she said the coursework ain't easy, although she's doing well and getting excellent grades. We are really very proud of her.

She chose Harvard over Princeton (she didn't like the smallness of the town), and Stanford (too close to home/45 minutes away).....because she really liked the fact that the whole Cambridge/Boston area is brimming with colleges as far as the eye can see! She met a special guy there....who is now her boyfriend.....and who is graduating from Harvard this year (a Boston Native).

I like Cambridge a lot too.......the little that I have seen thus far. Harvard Square reminds me of Europe somehow; maybe it is the "speedsters" in their cars that plow through there. Boston drivers scare me! LOL! :hi:

[Madspirit]

40. Two Worst Drivers

I've been to Mexico and I've lived in Cambridge/Boston. Cambridge/Boston was, by far, scarier, driving-wise. I think Mass. was the first state with no-fault insurance.

Check out Durgan Park if it's still there. The restaurant is famous for having mean waitresses...<g> Truly. That's what they are famous for.
Lee

[KamaAina]

41. Not bad, for a Harvard guy

:P

K-A
Y'85, cum laude -- now a mid-$30's cubicle rat at a nonprofit :shrug:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

42. On paper I look like the regional version of high status.

Graduated from two expensive private schools -- one private four year college rated "The best liberal arts college west of the Mississippi" by US News and World Report's annual college survey. I got an excellent education there - it was full of bored, rich kids.

I went to a private law college (free standing, no university attached) at night while working full time at the courthouse at a very demanding job, and earned a J.D. The court house job required yet another degree, a 2 year vocational degree. That's 12 years of college and nearly 20 years of working experience (the jobless shit started hitting the fan in the mid nineties, and I was burned out on my courthouse job due to severe stress.) Since then I have gone thru years of unemployment interspersed with shitty jobs where bosses have no answer for my logical arguments when I ask them to clarify policies. They just sputter, get mad, and fire me.

Now, slightly over 22 years later, I cannot get a job, any job. However, if the damned legal business doesn't recognize my highly relevant practical experience as well as my superb education I say fuck 'em. None of my alleged friends from law school could lift a goddamn finger to help me.

I'm gonna retire instead of beating my head against a brick wall. I'm financially unable to pay the taxes on my house at the end of the year without a job. I'm just sorry I wasted time expecting to be a yuppie success because of my education and skills. The education made me a better person but that was an awful lot of time and money to invest in the two degrees that did NOTHING to help my employability.

Who me? Bitter and pissed? I committed the MORTAL SIN of aging.

[DFW]

43. My daughter was one of those young, gifted kids:

She is a German-language native who got A's when she
transferred to high school in the USA (last two years).
She was also a legacy kid (Harvard great-grandfather who
was a deputy mayor of NYC and a NY State Supreme Court
Justice, a Harvard grandfather who was a distinguished DC print
journalist, and my brother and sister who went to Harvard).
She has an enviable multicultural background and had a list
of stuff she has done that would fill a CV of a kid ten years
older.

Harvard didn't even bother to get her an alumni interview,
despite her repeated requests. She got into, and went to George
Washington University in DC, got cited for writing better
papers on the US political scene than the American-born,
English native language kids there, and will now be graduating
cum laude in political science, going on to Pace Law, where Bobby
Kennedy, Jr. teaches. While she was in DC, she worked for Emily's List.

She loved DC, and has no regrets whatsoever about getting the
brush-off from Harvard. My family dropped all contributions to
them, but I don't think Harvard, as the best-endowed private
university in the USA, is worried.

Apparently, "name" schools rely heavily on test scores, ethnic
diversity, and famous, rich parents (couldn't help there), among
other criteria. Some kids like my daughter do get in, most don't.

She did just fine at George Washington, and I'm sure she'll do fine
at Pace. A Harvard degree, as with a Harvard Law (she didn't even apply)
degree, is surely still a ticket to a great job, but the world doesn't
end if they turn you down. They turn most applicants down, and most
of them succeed elsewhere, just as not all Harvard grads end up making
something of themselves.

[Hippo_Tron]

45. I've been told by a Harvard professor that undergrad there isn't really all that great

Most of the classes are taught by TA's and many of the professors won't give undergraduates the time of day. Certainly didn't seem like that when I visited George Washington a few years ago.

That isn't to say that Harvard doesn't have some of the top graduate programs. But from everything I've heard, Ivy League undergraduate education is way overrated.

[Shakespeare]

49. Congratulations to your daughter.

She sounds like an exceptional, hard-working student. As someone who lived for several years in DC, I will say that I'm sure the added experience of living in that city while attending college was probably ultimately more enriching for her than anything she'd have experienced at Harvard. GWU's a very good school, and DC is an amazing city.

Continued good luck to her!

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

48. I got an AAS degree from ITT technical Institute.

I am very proud to have accomplished the feat - it was alot of work.

On the other hand... I come from a family of twelve children. My Dad died, leaving Mom with 12 kids under the age of 18. She quit her job as a housewife, chellenged the state boards, and became an RN. Then she put us all through college on her wages, and kept the family together by ferocious will.

My little brother Joe was always the bohemian of the bunch - I remember him telling me that he had probably dropped acid more than 400 times(and that was 10 years ago!) He married young and moved to a place in the country, where he became the househusband of a good woman named Helen, a nurse.

Helen and Joe had three kids. The oldest child is female, and was admitted to Dartmouth on a full scholarship. The second was a male, who cobbled together a suite of scholarships that enabled him to earn a degree at UCD and is now doing graduate study in chemistry at UCSF. The third, a young man of many parts, was recently accepted into Harvard and Stanford for next fall - both offering full-ride scholarships.

And these folks have never had two nickels to rub together.