Dennis Kucinich tells about his meeting with the President in Esquire Magazine

[Mira]

From: Dennis Kucinich

Subject: What President Obama Didn't Say

The gentleman from Ohio - the last man standing on health care, as he put it in this conversation with Esquire.com just before Sunday's vote - reveals the personal moments behind his decision, and how the fate of a nation, if not a presidency, could have turned out a lot differently had he said "no."

As told to Mark Warren, Sunday, March 21, 2010
From Esquire.com - March 22, 2010, 2:35 pm


The meeting that took place on Air Force One was the fourth in a series of meetings that I had attended with the president in the last few months. There was a meeting on March 4 where the president called nine members to the Roosevelt Room at the White House, and eight of the members had voted for the bill when it passed the House last fall. I was the only one who voted against the bill. I thanked the president for inviting me even though I was a "no" vote. And in the more than hour-long meeting, the president covered a lot of territory about what he thought was important to consider. I sat quietly and listened carefully and took some notes. And at the end of the meeting, you know, we thanked each other, and I left.

When I arrived home that evening - March 4 - I still had this deep sense of compassion for the president for what he was struggling with in trying to pass the bill. And it was very clear to me that there was a lot on the line here - that he didn't say. I was just thinking about the scope of American history, and here's a president who's trying to do something, even if I don't agree with him. I told my wife, "You know I kinda feel bad about the situation he's in here. This is really a tough situation - his presidency is on the line." And I had a sense of sadness about what I saw him grappling with. I still maintained my position, still went forward in debates, arguing in meetings, arguing against the bill because it didn't have a public option, didn't have an opening for the states to pursue single-payer in a free manner. But at the same time I kinda remember the feeling that I had about watching him as he was dealing with this and, you know, trying to do what he felt was best for the nation.

Now keep something in mind about my relationship with President Obama: He and I campaigned together. A meeting with the president is always important - he and I have met dozens of times, during the campaign and since he became president - but we've met on many occasions. Four or five times about health care. So the relationship I have with him is a little bit different than other members who weren't on the campaign trail with him and who hadn't developed a relationship with him apart from the relationship that members of Congress ordinarily have with the president.

So I was really looking at Barack Obama the man, and thinking about his presidency. I've had differences of opinion with him on a number of issues. But I understand how this is a pivotal moment in America, and in his presidency. It's also a pivotal moment in American history. Of course, I carried that awareness with me into the next meeting, which took place on Air Force One on the fifteenth of March. Last Monday. So much has happened in just one week, but during that time, there had been a lot of speculation. I had done many interviews attacking the bill for its well-publicized shortcomings and I was not relenting. After we met on Air Force One, I didn't tell the president that "Look, I'm changing my position - you got me." We didn't have that discussion.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

http://www.esquire.com/the-side/qa/dennis-kucinich-health-care-bill-032210

[mvd]

1. K&R - funny, was just about to post this

Really reveals the personal side of politics and should give a lot of food for thought to those who say it shouldn't have passed.

[harun]

2. DK is a GIANT! Shame on the DU'rs that dissed him.

[SidDithers]

6. And shame on the DU'ers that implied...

or even outright stated that he must have been coerced, or had the screws put to him, in order for him to support the legislation.

Sid

[eridani]

18. You know, I wouldn't care if someone submitted a health care resolution to me

--that was signed by Noam Chomsky, Margaret Flowers, Naomi Klein and Howard Zinn IN THEIR OWN BLOOD! I'd still base my opinion of it on the facts and logic as I see it.

True, at the 11th hour there wasn't much point in Kucinich maintaining opposition. The problem was with the rest of the members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus who were too goddamed gutless to stand firm last summer and refuse to vote for any legislation without a robust public option.

[Mithreal]

24. +1

[earth mom]

20. NO-shame on DUers who don't give a shit about how this is the biggest rip off of the american people

EVER!

And shame on Dennis Kucinich for allowing his arm to be twisted on this issue!

Voters will NOT respond in kind to what Congress & Obama have done and that's voters on BOTH sides of the aisle!!!

[LynneSin]

35. The way the teabaggers are acting, I think you'll find the voters thinking differently come November

the tides are turning on this one.

[LynneSin]

34. I don't think many of us dissed him

we dissed those that somehow thought that DK was strong-armed or threatened into this vote. That DK was somehow some democratic 'god' that would never ever back down on his word.

It's kinda like the quote once said by Gandhi about Jesus and Christianity - The best think about Christianity is Jesus Christ, the worst thing about Christianity is the Christians.

[sabrina 1]

37. You just repeated the lie that people here viewed

Kucinich as a 'god'. Although much worse was said about him which can easily be posted should anyone try to deny it now. It's all about 'gotcha' politics for some people. Especially on internet boards since after the DLC invaded them on the left. It was always that way on the immature blogs on the right.

But Kucinich, to anyone who is familiar with him is truly one of the few people of principle in today's Democratic Congress. He is one of the few who is not beholden to Big Corps.

I knew that any decision he made was going to be a very difficult one and was not at all surprised that when presented with the choice of losing any opportunity to make a difference, he would not do that. It is far more important now, since it was basically going to pass anyhow, for him to remain in a position where he could continue to push the party away from the DLC influences that made this bill what it became.

He knows it was a lost opportunity, but he's a fighter and doesn't quit easily. I never saw his 'yes' vote as quitting, but rather a recognition of where he stood on the battlefield and a decision to fight on within the party.

Your continuation of the smear, the insinuation that those who agreed with him and still do, were blind, cheer-leaders, shows how little you know about the man himself and explains your role in the slamming of one the Democrats' best progressive members of Congress.

[liberation]

45. Wow... really?

Thank goodness we have someone like you to correct what we all saw and read here a week ago, with a "newer and improved" version of what our lying eyes think they saw. Praise Jeebus!

[Spazito]

3. Very interestng read!

Recommended.

[SidDithers]

4. K&R...

informative read. Thanks for posting.

Sid

[BurtWorm]

5. I'm so grateful he gave us this view of his decision-making process.

What a rare man. All those fuckers on the other side of the aisle should be half as open about their decisions as this. (As should the fuckers and nonfuckers on our side of the aisle).

:applause:

[Echo In Light]

7. "Someone in the media said that I was prepared to be the Ralph Nader of health care reform....

... If by the Ralph Nader of health care reform someone means someone who holds crooked corporations accountable, then that's a compliment. If they were referring to the 2000 presidential race, I think those who were closest in the Gore campaign realize that that campaign was death by a thousand cuts. And to try to put it all on Ralph Nader is, you know, historically glib."

k/r

[uberblonde]

8. Excellent piece.

Thanks for posting it.

:kick:

[optimator]

9. Dems better get crackin on more reform this year

the odds are zero that they will INCREASE their majorities.

[rudy23]

10. Boy, what a grandstanding lunatic!

Listen to his reasoning in that article---talk about out there!!!
:sarcasm:

I hope no one forgets the all-out smear campaign on Dennis, and I strongly hope no one forgets who perpetrated it.

[liberation]

46. ... that must have been a figment of your imagination

What are you talking about? Haven't you heard? No one here smeared or said bad things about Kucinich, especially not the super nice and upstanding moral members of the DLC! you must be one of those unreasonable angry-for-no-apparent-reason lunatic liberals...

(sarcasm tag on ;-) )

[Berry Cool]

11. I have a lot more respect for Dennis Kucinich now than I ever did before

now that I've read this insight into his decision-making process about this bill.

It looks as if he's grown up. And he's realized that stubborn refusal-to-budge stances are not always the most principled ones, and changing your point of view doesn't have to mean being a sellout. K&R and kudos to Dennis.

[rudy23]

12. He's 63 years old. What does "growing up" have to do with anything?

I knew some would have a hard time laying off the backhanded compliments.

[Mithreal]

26. +1

[liberation]

47. I see the problem, you are still clinging to the old definition of "growing up"

You need the Newspeak DLC dictionary, where you will find the new definitions for terms like "change" etc.

Don't make me report you to the thought police.

[Mira]

13. I think Dennis grew up a long time ago.

Did you know he was one of a gazillion children (maybe 11 if memory serves) and for a while the whole family lived in a car.
That's when he probably grew up and became MY champion.

[Mithreal]

25. +1

[austin78704]

32. He has always known that.

But it is very important to push for what is right. To throw away what is right with no fight at all in the hopes of winning is the mistake too many democrats made with HCR and left us with a vastly weakened bill before debate even began.

Kucinich racked up more battle scars by himself, trying to make the bill better, than all the other congressional democrats collectively.

[PufPuf23]

14. I hope the re-set on the Obama Presidency "takes"

Personally, I have been disappointed in a number of policy directions and appointments but never have I wanted POTUS Obama to fail and given the same choices today I would still give him my votes despite my disappointments.

I feel somewhat better about how HCR has played out after reading this article.

DK is a rational and clear thinking man who means good. I usually agree with him. DK should not be bashed at DU.

[zipplewrath]

15. I feel for Dennis

As an opponent of this legislation, none the less I could feel for the tough spot he was in. There was the obvious problem of so directly confronting the leadership. There was the political problem of being a member of a party with a gigantic failure. And of course there was the fact that for all the counter-productive aspects of the bill, there were features that some good people could use. And he is right, there was a real chance that the White House would continue to work on this issue to the exception of other important issues.

I do wish he had spoken more of the "moral hazard" of supporting legislation with which one has such significant differences. The "if they know they can make me vote for anything" problem. I am particularly worried about a "a win is a win" attitude with respect to such important issues. He makes a slight reference to "having his work cut out for him", but many believe in fact that the job just got even harder because of this bill.

[madamesilverspurs]

16. Fascinating and rare stroll

through a thought process. Thanks for posting!

K and R

--

[Javaman]

17. Dennis, you are a great man.

I value your reasoning and now understand why you voted the way you did.

I am humbled by your intellect.

[flvegan]

19. Agreed. n/t

[earth mom]

21. Dennis sold out & he can find excuses till the cows come home-but he's lost a ton of supporters

over his vote and so has the rest of Congress and Obama!!!

[tomp]

22. the only way dennis can be vindicated here is historically.

IF team obama fixes this monstrosity somehow, sometime soon (which looks highly doubtful) and/or team obama goes ahead to do colossal good things (which seems highly doubtful), then perhaps dennis' position will make some sense. otherwise, no. his decision is hard to believe. his story that no arm twisting occurred is hard to believe also.

full disclosure: avid supporter of kucinich including ongoing financial support (and currently reconsidering that. throwing dennis to the wolves is not easy to do, but if he's going to run with them...).

[krawhitham]

23. He continues to find ways to get his name in the press I see

[Mithreal]

27. Wish my rep was out front, but he only works behind the scenes I hear, hard to verify

Intentionally insinuating something?

I have pressured my Senators to be more visible in the media on specific issues they support, only one of the two seems to have really made an effort. Should I tell them I was wrong, making themselves available to the media and taking their message and voices to the public is unwelcome?

Unless I misunderstand what you wrote, it was not only divisive but silly as well.

:)

[Ken Burch]

30. Couldn't resist dissing the guy, even though he no longer deserves it, could you?

Isn't it enough for you that the freaking bill WON?

[sabrina 1]

44. 'No Longer'? He never deserved it.

But the DLC crowd have always hated liberal ideas and they fear someone like Kucinich who, once people get to hear his clear, informed opinions, are rarely able to disagree with him.

They know he's right also, which explains the desperate and vicious nature of their attacks. He doesn't need their approval, and apparently wisely, ignores their disapproval as we should.

They are people who subscribe to the Bush mantra 'you're either with us or against us' but at least in Bush's case he never wavered from his postitions, evil thought they were. The DLC operatives flip flop all over the place, depending on the 'message' they receive from a man who definitely does deserve criticism, Rahm Emanuel. Not being able to think without orders from above, distinguished the Kucinich bashers from people who can think for themselves.

Funny to see them fully support a PO in the bill only to quickly turn around after they get the memo, and do a complete about turn, slamming those they initially agreed with.

A perfect example of this was Marcos Moulitsas who viciously attacked Kucinich (nothing new for him, btw, to go after someone who he identifies as liberal) who in Dec. was for 'Killing the Bill, agreeing with everything Kucinich had to say, only to totally change his position, and launch a disgusting attack on Kucinich. It must be hard to have to keep changing your 'opinions' because your mind is not your own. Hard to know if these people have an convictions at all.

[Gin Blossom]

28. My admiration for Dennis just went up a few notches.

Progressives are lucky to have him.

[pundaint]

29. That is the worst reason I could have imagined. He put his regard for one man above his clear

understanding that this bill was bad for the American People. He voted to retain power, not to do good. Shame on you, Dennis, but you have demonstrated why all incumbents must be replaced. Even the best of them, have forgotten why America has a Congress, and who they were swearing to support when they took their oath.

[G_j]

40. M Moore had some similar thoughts I think

"I mean, I don’t mean to sound cynical, because I understand the importance of this vote. Certainly, had the vote gone down to defeat and the Republicans had won, I would say that it would probably have been near impossible for President Obama to get anything through for the rest of this Congress. So that would not have been a good idea for that kind of paralysis to set in."


he also says in the same interview,


“The healthcare bill that was passed ultimately will be seen as a victory for capitalism,” Moore says. “It protected the capitalist model of providing healthcare for people—in other words, we are not to help unless there is money to be made from it.”

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/3/23/michael_moore_health_care_bill_a

[Kaylee]

51. You aren't giving him enough credit.

It was not only his thoughts about the Obama Presidency which swayed his mind. He also speaks to what rejecting this bill now would have done to his hopes of one day having a public option or single payer...an argument that many of us who are thrilled the bill has passed have made. It is not the bill itself, but what the bill means to the way we view the government's role in healthcare in this country.

"Because ultimately what was decisive for me was not the bill, but rather the potential to create an opening for a more comprehensive approach toward health care reform. If the bill were to go down, this whole discussion about anything we might hope to do in health care in the future is not going to happen in this generation. We had to wait sixteen years after the demise of the Clinton plan to come to this moment. And the angst that members are feeling about this bill — the temperature that's been raised in the body politic over this bill, the characterizations of the bill in a debate that's been quite distorted — all of those things argue against bringing up another health care bill in the near future if this bill were to go down."

[deacon]

31. He's a good man. n/t

[Jefferson23]

33. I was shocked when I read he would vote yes, but I remain in support

of Kucinich. I stand by him, if anyone is going to keep vigilant until we have a public option and ultimately, a single payer system, it will
be this very good man.

[MilesColtrane]

36. Wow,apparently Steve Job's Charismatic Reality Distortion Field has nothing on Obama's.

I was hoping DK was going to say that he changed his mind because a bill marginally better was preferable to the status quo, not because he was starstruck.

[liberation]

49. LOL! Zing!

I assume non-techies won't get the reference but your comment made me laugh... I honestly never thought I would read about Jobs's reality distortion field in DU. Thank you for that!

[followthemoney]

38. The Democratic Party as a whole is the negation of Dennis Kucinich

Without Dennis speaking out and calling attention to important issues, NO VOICE WOULD BE HEARD on those issues. No single payer advocate was allowed to participate in the Baucus committee. The party as a whole was opposed to a single payer or public option and preferred the monopolist privatized version that destroys middle class people and enriches the already rich.

Dennis brought issues to the public that are suppressed by the corporate media and corporate parties.

Dennis is correct on his opposition to this health care bill and hasn't changed his position even when he voted for it.

The problem is that his position received little support inside the party or from the public. To vote against this health care bill would have been political suicide; and with him gone there would have remained no rallying point for discussion of the issues only he recognizes and cares about.

Political suicide for Dennis would only leave the possibility of a rallying point less likely than the unlikely possibility that now exists for universal health care or even opposition to the corporate sponsored wars of today and the future.

All options other than caving to the inevitable would have merely silence him and made the corporate silencing of their opposition complete.

[pundaint]

50. Live to lose another day? He wont ever have as much influence as he might have had last week again.

[happy_liberal]

39. Did he call for a press conference before he made his decision?

Was his vote the only one that made a difference?

He seemed to be playing right along with the media during this whole 'made for TV' vote change.

[Mithreal]

41. -1 says the "liberal" attacking, don't buy into either for or against us type thinking

[Quezacoatl]

42. Small victories now provide opportunities for larger ones later

"When it comes to analyzing the law we've just passed, it's hard to use terms like good or bad. Because ultimately what was decisive for me was not the bill, but rather the potential to create an opening for a more comprehensive approach toward health care reform."

[LWolf]

43. I'm sorry, Dennis.

While I still respect you and support your efforts to make things better for people, I can't agree on this one.

The Obama presidency, is, frankly, not high on my list of things to preserve. You know where he stands on war. You know what he is doing to public education. I can't decide to support a bad bill because it might upset his applecart. His applecart NEEDS to be upset.

But then, while I'm a registered Democrat, I'm not a partisan. It's not the success of the party that is important to me, but the direction the nation takes on issues.

I've always known that you were a loyal Democrat. I don't hold it against you. I know you'll be at the forefront of the fight to move us toward single payer.

[Beringia]

48. I love Kucinich n/t