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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 04:57 PM
Original message
HELP!!! I'm in an argument with my husband. he cannot understand
Edited on Wed Mar-24-10 04:58 PM by Windy
how the health care bill will save money as the government will be providing subsidies for people who buy insurance. i have the CBO report, but its not very detailed with how the savings will be generated. I've tried searching the web, but I keep getting all the protest posts about the mandate. Any help would be appreciated!
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. The general point..
is that all these people, even though they will be getting subsidies for insurance, will now stop using emergency rooms for their medical care.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. The idea is that the expenditures of the subsidies are cancelled out by other savings
Maybe the government used to shell out for the uninsured in some cases, and also Medicare savings too. I haven't read it closely, but thats probably the point.

The deficit neutrality of a bill has little relevance to its efficiency anyway.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. try this
Edited on Wed Mar-24-10 05:04 PM by BrklynLiberal
Even if it only cuts into the profits of th e insurance companies, it will save billions..but that is not all it will do.

http://economyincrisis.org/content/how-health-care-bill-will-save-us-money

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/new_cbo_analysis_says_the_sena.html

New CBO analysis says the Senate bill reduces the deficit. Still.

This won't be shocking to many of you, but the Congressional Budget Office just released an updated analysis for the Senate health-care bill, and it finds that it reduces the deficit, much as its predecessors did. The first 10 years see savings of $118 billion, and the second 10 years see savings in excess of $600 billion. Most striking is that "CBO expects that the legislation would generate a reduction in the federal budgetary commitment to health care during the decade following 2019," which is to say that this bill will cover 30 million people but the cost controls will, within a decade or so, leave us spending less on health care than if we'd done nothing.

That's a pretty good deal.

But it's not a very well-understood deal. In their Wall Street Journal op-ed, pollsters Scott Rasmussen and Doug Schoen observed that "people simply don't trust the official projections. People in Washington may live and die by the pronouncements of the Congressional Budget Office, but 81% of voters say it's likely the plan will end up costing more than projected."

That's obvious enough. People understand the part of the bill that costs money: We're buying health-care insurance for folks who can't afford it themselves. They don't understand the parts of the bill that save money: We're taxing high-value benefits? We've got a Medicare Commission empowered to make unnamed reforms to the system? We're moving toward bundling for hospital payments in Medicare? And since few know about these policies, much less understand them, the projections that show the bill saving money don't make much sense, and so voters don't believe them.


http://www.care2.com/causes/health-policy/blog/health-care-bill-will-cut-deficit-says-non-partisan-cbo/

Health Care Bill Will CUT Deficit says Non Partisan CBO

Clearing the decks for a likely Sunday vote, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says that the health care reform compromise bill will cut the deficit by $138 billion over the next 10 years and by another $1.2 trillion over the following 10 years; will give 32 million more Americans access to coverage, close the Medicare donut hole, and extend Medicare’s solvency by at least nine years.

The CBO estimates should serve to assure Blue Dog Democrats concerned about increasing budget deficits, although no Republicans are expected to support the legislation.

The White House announced that President Obama is delaying his scheduled trip to Indonesia and Australia to remain in Washington for the expected Sunday vote in the House and possible amendment votes in the Senate during the coming week.

Earlier this week, Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) announced that he will cast his vote in favor of the legislation, a reversal from his earlier stance. CNN reports quotes Kucinich as saying if the plan fails, "I doubt that this president or any president in the near future or any Congress in the near future will want to touch anything remotely related to health care." He plans to continue working toward a single-payer plan, calling the current legislation a detour.

Two measures must be considered by the House on Sunday -- the bill that passed the Senate, followed by the revised measure, which is expected to increase subsidies for the uninsured and scaling back the excise tax on insurance premiums so that fewer families are affected.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi needs at least 216 votes for passage.

If the Senate bill passes the House, it will then be left to President Obama to sign it into law. If the revisions are approved, the Senate will have to approve them first.

The middle class stands to gain the most. Those who obtained health insurance from employers dropped by three million between 2000 and 2008, according to the White House, and premiums are rising three times faster than wages. The middle class is losing health insurance at a faster rate than those in higher income brackets and those in lower income brackets.

Although this is far from the universal coverage many had hoped, it is estimated that under this plan we could achieve 95 percent coverage while reducing the deficit.
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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Is the CBO usually accurate over time with their predictions? nt
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Medicaid of the most expensive medical coverage in human history.
We won't have to pay $300,000 for untreated illnesses & conditions that could be dealt with early for $30.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. That is true. Low cost preventative medical care and regular medical checkups will save
Edited on Wed Mar-24-10 05:06 PM by BrklynLiberal
lives as well as money.

That is one of the major differences between us and that countries that have what the repukes call
"socialized medicine" : PREVENTATIVE and WELLNESS CARE
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. You should submit this kind of question
to this guy. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/a_bill_becomes_a_law.html

but read the questions that have already been posted and the answers. It is an excellent way to inform yourself in reference to this bill.

Ezra Klein states,
"What I ask of you is to send me your questions on the bill,
or leave them in the comment section. I won't be able to answer all of them.
But I'll do my best to answer the most common among them.
All posts will be filed under the category "Explaining health-care reform,"
so people can find them later. Let's begin."



I mentioned that in this OP for a couple of days ago..... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x240748


I also warn folks not to accept any answers without reputable cites,
because there is a lot of distortion on both sides on this.

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Excellent suggestion. I posted a link to one of his columns as part of my response to the OP.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Aye! I noticed that.
And the fact that you cited links is the way to go, as you already know. :thumbsup:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. The current "GOP Health Care Plan" says... go to the emergency room...
The uninsured cannot be turned away, so they are treated. That's costly. Time, supplies, medicine... all these things will be spent on the uninsured... and guess how they are paid for? By upping the cost for everyone else in order to cover the cost for the uninsured. When the insurance companies have to pay more, they charge more too. When insurance cost gets too high, people drop their coverage. So insurance companies up the price again to cover this loss. Then more people can't afford the insurance, and more people drop it, and the insurance companies up the price again... and again... and so on... This pattern is unsustainable.

Give everyone health care and the price paid for preventative medicine will be substantially lower than for treating disease and illness. Plus, poor women will be able to get proper birth control... the number of abortions will go down.

The new plan isn't perfect, but it isn't the above, so it's a start.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. The CBO only cares about whether the GOVERNMENT saves money
They save money by taking it out of the hides of everyone not poor enough for Medicaid. We will save the government money by paying ever higher and higher premiums and deductibles.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. !!! n/t
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. Every day a worker is home sick it cost the Government money.
Health Care will keep America healthier and a lot less sick days, plus the more money the Insurance companies make the more tax they will pay.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. Over half of the deficit reduction in the first ten years comes from a new
long term care program, you can see the figure of 70 billion on page 18 in the link below.

25 page pdf
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11355/hr4872.pdf


Old post from November when the CBO scored the Senate bill.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/slipslidingaway/199


Both bills reduce the deficit because they collect money for a new long term care plan that will not have any cash outlays in the beginning years.


36 page pdf
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10731/Reid_letter_11_18_09.pdf


From the above CBO link

"The legislation includes a number of other provisions with a significant budgetary effect.

They include the following:

 Community Living Assistance Services and Supports (CLASS) provisions, which
would establish a voluntary federal program for long-term care insurance. Active
workers could purchase coverage, usually through their employer. Premiums
would be set to cover the full cost of the program as measured on an actuarial
basis. However, the program’s cash flows would show net receipts for a number of
years, followed by net outlays in subsequent decades.
In particular, the program
would pay out far less in benefits than it would receive in premiums over the
10-year budget window, reducing deficits by about $72 billion over that period,
including about $2 billion in savings to Medicaid..."




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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. Work it out in bed..
heheh. :loveya:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. If the insurance companies are allegedly going to make huger profits
Won't they pay more taxes.

Though I expect a brigade to claim that insurance companies never pay taxes.

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. CBO: Democrats Double-Counting Medicare Savings
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2009/12/cbo-democrats-double-counting-medicare-savings/32538/

"This bill will strengthen Medicare and extend the life of the program."

- President Barack Obama, after the Senate health care bill secured 60 votes

The notion that the health care reform bill would make Medicare more solvent and also expand benefits never made any sense. The health care reform bill makes cuts to Medicare, and uses them to pay for new spending; to the extent that we think we need to pay for, um, Medicare with cuts to Medicare, this bill actually weakens either the program, or our future budgets..."


CBO link...

2 page pdf
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10868/12-23-Trust_Fund_Accounting.pdf


"...The key point is that the savings to the HI trust fund under the PPACA would be received by the government only once, so they cannot be set aside to pay for future Medicare spending and, at the same time, pay for current spending on other parts of the legislation or on other programs. Trust fund accounting shows the magnitude of the savings within the trust fund, and those savings indeed improve the solvency of that fund; however, that accounting ignores the burden that would be faced by the rest of the government later in redeeming the bonds held by the trust fund..."






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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. thank you so much!!!!!!! Great information!!!!! nt
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. Major illness will be avoided as people get preventive medicine.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. Tell him to shut up or withhold sex.
:evilgrin:
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