I completely believe that Cantor & other Republicans have been victims & condemn it

[wndycty]

When I heard those messages sent to Stupak from teabaggers I accepted that in the days leading up to vote he might have heard the same shit from folks on our side. Lets be honest. Boorish behavior, language and threats come from both sides regardless of ideology. HOWEVER there is one slight difference. OUR LEADERS and TALKING HEADS don't encourage it and are quick to condemn it.

Folks we need to do a better job, we need to be careful not to sink to the levels of the other side, but I have no doubt folks on our side have.

For the most part we can be proud how the larger progressive movement has behaved but lets be honest, we most likely have more than a few folks going rogue.

[DrDan]

1. I agree with you. .. . . but I feel we can hold our heads high with respect

to progressive radio/TV as compared to the RWers.

[wndycty]

2. As well as our party as well as elected leaders

:kick:

[FSogol]

3. K & R. n/t

[Dappleganger]

4. They demanded proof, so I demand proof from Cantor.

You said that you won't release the threatening notes, I am calling you out on your bullshit and saying that unless you show those messages that it didn't happen.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Actually I have NO DOUBT that this happened to Cantor

and I also know the standard play. But hey whatever, what I found disgusting was the usual bully tactic of blaming the victim.

[EOTE]

23. Why do you have no doubt?

What do you know that we all don't? I'm genuinely interested. Is it that you just don't believe that he'd lie or is there information that you're privy to?

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. It goes wiht the territory of being a Jew in public life

and here is the little secret as advised by the ADL...

When you get threats go to the police, but never, evah go to the press. The latter incites more events. That line was out of that recommendation, which mostly does work.

That is why there is no doubt in my mind that he's gotten threats and worst.

Now what is disgusting is HOW he is using those.

By the way, he just went against that ADL advise, and there is worst. The crowd he's hanging out with, will destroy him at the first opportunity, especially at the fringes. He ain't a 'xtian and well you know how blood libel goes.

[EOTE]

42. I certainly think that it's a possibility that he was targeted for being Jewish.

I wouldn't say I have no doubts, but that's certainly a good possibility. However, if that were the case, he'd be FAR more likely to be attacked by those of his same party. Despite their support for Israel, anti-semites are far, far more common on the right. Their support for Israel is about fulfilling biblical prophecy and has nothing to do with their respect or even civility toward Jewish people. And his talk of his office being hit by a bullet seems very odd to me as well. He seems very much suggesting that his political opposition is responsible (if it happened at all). That is what I doubt most. Why is it that you believe he went against the advice of the ADL? You'd think his personal safety is far more important than a cheap political shot to make.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Exactly, the people who will attack him

in a physical way mind you, are the ones on the fringes of his party.

Why I say he (and the rest of the GOP leadership) are playing with fire... and you know that those who play with fire will get burned sooner or later.

As to the ADL, if this happened, and he went public, aka to the press to make a cheap political shot, well there is this about the modern GOP.

[EOTE]

60. I think we'll be hearing more about this the next few days.

His story is already falling apart. If he lied about this for political points, I hope like hell he'll suffer consequences for it. But then again, IOKIYAR.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. A republcian pay politically for a fib?

Now that was a good one for laughter.

:-)

Though Luntz might have a few angry faces to face.

[Dappleganger]

26. Well as a former Virginian I DO have doubt.

Eric Cantor didn't get the reputation for being a lying POS for nothing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. We are talking about two different things here

but the fringes he's been inciting to violence is exactly the fringe that will do that.

Take it as it may be. What I found disgusting is not whether it happened or not, but bully tactic 101, blame the victim.

[Dappleganger]

34. Yes, blaming the victim is basically advocating the actions

in an even more cowardly way.

[The Magistrate]

31. Cantor's Story Seems To Be Collapsing, Ma'am

It has dwindled to 'shots fired near the office', and not even any proof of broken glass....

[Solomon]

44. And I never knew he was Jewish until this happened and they

started spreading it. I don't believe it either.

[amandabeech]

59. Glad to see you posting, Magistrate.

Your absence, sir, was noted and regretted.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. I think that they're lying through their teeth.

And even if they're not, they're trying to exploit it for political gain.

[Gman2]

14. Who cares, this is our opportunity to be bigger. In the public eye.

[EOTE]

6. Lemme guess. Someone held down Cantor and carved a backward B into his face?

All the while, the 6'7" black guy was screaming "You're gonna get what's coming to you, bitch!". I call bullshit until he can provide something for evidence other than his word, which is worse than useless to me.

[yurbud]

7. why would Democrats bother to do that to an impotent minority?

unlike the right, we don't get our rocks off on stomping the helpless, and while the GOP isn't helpless, most of us have figured out that the Democrats are pretending a GOP rag doll is twisting their arm when in reality, they're giving the GOP CPR to keep it alive politically.

[Bluerthanblue]

8. I join you-

and rec. this.

It important to speak out against this kind of crap. It isn't who we are.
Violence is NOT the answer.

[EOTE]

10. It's called projection. They're embarrassed by the behavior of their followers, so they accuse us.

It's what republicans have done for at least the past 50 years, they're doing it now. I'm just damned surprised that so many democrats buy into it.

[Bluerthanblue]

28. scres projection. If we don't condemn the use of violence

in this situation we are being manipulated- by those we say are behaving in an irresponsible manner.
We can chose to respond to them in kind-
claim it couldn't be anyone who represents us and ignore/minimize the action itself
OR
state our clear uncompromising position that The use of violence and intimidation is WRONG. period.

You don't have to buy into anything to stand firm against this crap.
It should be an immediate response to the situation- anything less is unacceptable.

:hi:

[EOTE]

38. But that has ALWAYS been our position.

Democrats have always made a hard stand against violence and intimidation. Nothing has changed in that regard. The only thing is, these idiots are trying to flip the script and suggest that we're just as culpable. That's bullshit. I refuse to play their game.

[Bluerthanblue]

49. restating our position, isn't playing their game- it's living our

words.

It's NOT playing their game. Saying that "they" are making it up, or doing it themself isn't addressing the real threat to all of us-

We cannot ignore the threats and acts of violence. Stating our position clearly yet again is important.
It doesn't imply guilt or admit complicity. It makes our stand as Democrats clear.

:hi:

[EOTE]

51. But they ARE making it up.

Cantor's story is already completely riddled with holes. Tell me this. What has changed in the past week that suggests that Democrats need to change the way they talk? We need to continue calling out these violent thugs on their tactics. We don't need to change anything else.

[Bluerthanblue]

62. not saying we need to CHANGE anything about the way we talk- just

saying we need to make our position clear.

This isn't as much about Cantor as it is about US-

We could ignore the ISSUE (violence) by saying 'we don't believe it'- or 'they did this themself'(sound familiar to what they're saying about the threats to us?) or claim that they are getting what they have encouraged (which we encourage when we don't condemn all violence like this).

Or we can respond TO the ISSUE- by restating our stand against it. Loudly, clearly, and unapologetic ly- as often as needed.

The actions suggested by many here are the same actions that the Republicans are using-

Our stand against this shouldn't waver or be left unsaid.

That doesn't mean 'we' are responsible for whatever has happened with Cantor.

It DOES make clear where we stand for all to hear.

[EOTE]

65. I just don't understand how when the right starts their whining and projection...

then we're supposed to give in. I know you'll say "But by condemning violence, we're not giving in to anyone." Here is why I disagree to an extent. Firstly, democrats have always condemned violence and they've done so without being hypocritical and tacitly approving of it when it suits our cause. So, to make a statement and talk about how we need to condemn this violence after Cantor makes up some bullshit stories would be in essence accepting that they are true and that we're culpable just as they are. We ARE NOT. This is almost exclusively a tactic of the right. I'm not going to say anything which would suggest that we're anything like them.

[Bluerthanblue]

68. maybe if you see this as an opportunity to re-state

what has been our position all along- vs. theirs- it wouldn't be so bad?

I've read so many responses on here that say "they did it to themself" "it's a lie" "they're the ones who let violent rhetoric go without addressing it" -

This is our time to do what we know is right. Are some people going to see that as our taking responsibility? probably- but that is THEIR problem.

If we don't make our stand clear for the gazillionth time- without any little disclaimers as they do "...but.."- then those within our party- (and I'm not naive or dishonest enough to deny there are likely some) who are potentially dangerous aren't being reminded of WHO we are- and WHAT we stand for. We are no less 'culpable' than those in the Republican party who honestly don't believe violence is the answer but who remained silent as Palin and Limbaugh, and Beck and so many others stoked the hatred are to what is being done in their name.

"We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people." MLKjr.
sorry for shouting it, but it isn't being heard.

[MindandSoul]

9. I don't believe threats from the Left side have been as rampant. . .if at all!

With the attitude of the Republicans, the teabaggers, and the FoxNews crowd over the last 6 months. . .they would have used ANY threats to their advantage. . .They didn't mind using "death panel" as a "threat" to the American people. . .if they could have documented a real threat (either an e-mail, a letter, or a phone call), they would have done so long ago!

And, today, Cantor "suddenly" reports that HE has received threats???? But, honest, good, peaceful person that he is. . .he doesn't want to disclose any "factual" proof of those threats????

Give me a break!

[EOTE]

13. +1. I can't believe so many (especially democrats) are buying into this nonsense.

There are honestly people here who believe that republicans have been the victim of violence and intimidation, yet refuse to go public about it because they wouldn't want to politicize it. Yeah, that's the ticket. Republicans would NEVER want to use something like that for their own personal/political gain. They're just so much more above the fray than we are.

[Naturalist111]

53. It is CRAZY isnt' it?

[BurtWorm]

11. He should provide documents.

I know I sound like a birther :eyes: but he made this claim, he should back it up. I don't doubt that he may have been the target, but we know the Dems have been. We've seen and heard the damage to their offices. No reason Cantor can't back up his claim--unless it didn't happen.

[EOTE]

16. I don't know why that's such an unusual request.

If that fucker expects us to take him at his word, he's got another thing coming. And with the birther comparison, Obama HAS provided his birth certificate, they just weren't satisfied with it. There's also a birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper, but apparently they think that was simply the beginning of a communist plot begun 40+ years ago. I won't believe that douchebag until I see something approaching evidence.

[BurtWorm]

18. In Cantor's case, anyway, I think it's suspicious that he says he won't provide details.

Maybe his wife or mistress or boyfriend shot out his window. Not the same as an angry constituent singling him out. (Assuming his window even was shot out, which has yet to be demonstrated.)

[EOTE]

22. Exactly. But we're all just supposed to take his word for it. Because repubs would never lie.

And so they say that they're not talking about these issues because they don't want to politicize it. Then, he goes right ahead and does just that. To prove that he wouldn't do such a thing. The logical roller coasters these morons go through make my head spin.

[lonestarnot]

15. What bullshit. I've been mad as hell for 8+ years, but never threw bricks to harm anyone, never

cut any gas lines to cause harm to anyone, never went to any political gatherings with a side-arm strapped on my hip like John Wayne :puke: And no one on our side ever goes rogue. :puke: Cats are not so easily brainwashed as to be made stool pigeons.

[Cetacea]

17. Our leaders are not signalling violence. Sorry.

And democrats do not have a history of the type of acts you write about. The right-wing does.

[high density]

19. Cantor is blaming the Democrats for attacks on Democrats

Democrats are "fanning the flames" by... I dunno, getting attacked? The people fanning the flames are the likes of Cantor and Boner. And we know the fire was set the normal suspects of those like Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity.

[Mz Pip]

35. By that logic

the bullet through his office window must be the Republican's fault. :eyes:

[EOTE]

43. Yes, that would be my guess.

IF a bullet was fired at or near his office at all. Which seems less and less likely to be the case.

[kestrel91316]

20. They are victims of their own Frankenstein monsters run amok. Boo hoo.

[tom_paine]

21. I wouldn't expect you to fall for a Corporate M$M/Bushie PsyOp like that.

I have too much respect for you.

Cantor's showing no proof but this conveniently comes up just as the multiple stories of the Teabaggers is gaining traction and causing some Americans to wake up a little?

I am sorry wndycty, but I can't buy it. Having watched the RW Lie Machine play the Corporate M$M like a Wurlitzer for a decade, it smells to me just like the susual RW Lie Machine's tactic of throwing squid ink into the water so people throw up their arms in confusion and the real story is nullified by the Bushiganda Op.

Tell me you havent seen it before. Then tell me this doesn't smell awfully like those many other examples.

Can I be sure? Like a person living in Soviet Russia in the 70s, no. But can I question the Communist (Bushpublican) Party's hand in it when it smells like so many other of their lies?

You betcha. When a coin flips "heads" 1000 times in a row, I start to question the coin's validity automatically.

[Doremus]

25. Cantor lied. Let's not take blame for something that never happened. Thank you.

[Dappleganger]

27. +1000

[ecstatic]

30. You've been had... sorry

He's already backtracking on his story.

[wndycty]

36. You will notice that I didn't vouch for this particular incident. . .

. . .however do you really believe that as a Jewish Congressman from Virginia, Cantor has not been the target of slurs and harassment?

Also, do you really believe that when folks on our side aren't happy that some of us have never ever crossed line?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

40. FAIL. Of the EPIC variety.

Thanks for playing.

[ecstatic]

41. Of course he has.... I'm sure he faces more

threats than other white members of congress; however, the threats he might experience are not the result of democratic politicians race baiting, religion baiting, etc. And the vast majority of his threats are probably from registered republicans.

[EOTE]

46. So we need to be more cautious of inciting violence...

Because you believe it's highly likely that a Jewish congressman was targeted by anti-semites of his own party. Yeah, THAT makes sense. Violence is a tactic of the right. I'm not going to watch my words when it's these tea-bag fucks who are causing all the problems and then some asshole tries to blame the victims of this violence.

[tom_paine]

32. More data coming in - you've been fooled wndycty

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8016385

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

33. "been fooled" or "failed"?

Different things, you know.

[wiggs]

37. No. First, the difference between leaders is not slight. Their leaders use and foment

fear and hate much, much more than ours. I would hope that on DU it's not necessary to cite the hundreds of examples where homosexuals, liberals, people of color, the french, canadians, germans, Chavez, people from san francisco, teachers, unions, gun control advocates, choice advocates, acorn, kite surfers, swift boat veterans, triple amputees running for office, atheists, agnostics, jews, etc.....have been mocked, demonized, dehumanized, smeared, and then the polarization is used to fundraise and motivate the base. They polarize...they segregate in order strengthen their own club of white republicans.

Second: dems as a group of diverse people are 1) less likely to be a homogeneous group that wants to exclude and hate on others and 2) as a group see verbal and physical violence much less as a solution. Can't say that about all dems and all republicans of course...but there is a difference between the parties. We choose not to put out leaflets telling voters to vote on the wrong day. We choose not to bug our own offices in order to blame the opposition. We don't threaten secession. We don't ask our base to fear the mysterious agendas of a certain demographic. We don't invade other countries for no reason. We don't condone torture. We take care of people....not abandon them to become fodder for corporate or military tyrants.

the parties have not behaved the same over the last ten years and the difference is big.

[athenasatanjesus]

39. This False equivalency crap needs to END!

Everything bad that comes from the right is NOT equally represented on the left.
Even if there have been threats on republicans,democrats do not preach the type of lies and rhetoric that would lead to violence against conservatives not to mention the fact that democrats are infinitely more willing to compromise with republicans then visa versa.
Then of course there is the matter of how conservative anger toward liberals that is turning violent comes from failures created by right wing ideas to begin with.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

45. Kick for the extremely satisfying egg on the OP's face.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raineyb]

47. I don't believe a damn word Cantor says.

Republicans always look to shift blame. This is just another example of that.

[Bobbie Jo]

48. They certainly haven't discouraged it, either. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

50. no they haven't- shouldn't WE though? Shouldn't someone be

willing to state what shouldn't NEED to be stated after all these generations of humanity?

If we do the same- If we dismiss it with silence, or simply turn it back on them, WE are complicit.

[Raineyb]

55. So you want us to do what? Take responsibility for violence threats that HAVEN'T been made

because some Republican scumbag lied about being a victim of violence? Why give any credence to their bullshit?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

61. They're clutching at single cellulose molecules, ain't they?

[Bluerthanblue]

66. "they"

aren't clutching onto anything.

You are making the mistake of doing exactly what you hate the Republicans for doing. You are making the discussion about "guilt" and "blame" and your own perception of what the truth is, while missing the only REAL truth that is yours to control.

The use of violence/intimidation/threats is WRONG. If you believe that, say it. If you say it in response to an announcement of such an event, you aren't taking responsibility or admitting guilt. You are doing just the opposite.

What part of that can't you understand?

When the Republicans come out and say "violence is wrong, BUT..." they are condoning violence. When Cantor claims that someone shot at his office and your response is "I don't believe it" "they did it to themself" "they're the ones who started it"... where does that leave you on the act itself?

THINK about it. Please.

:hi:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

67. It's the truth. It actually did NOT happen. -nt

[Bluerthanblue]

63. is re-stating our position on violence taking responsibility?

maybe in your world.

You are endorsing violence against others when you make your stand on YOUR perception of whether someone was threatened rather than stating that such behaviour is CLEARLY wrong.

Your position is no better than that of the Republicans who claim that the threats and violence against our Reps is being done by us! Rather than what they SHOULD do, which is clearly and unconditionally condemn it.-

Be careful of that abyss...

:shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

69. Is the author of this thread "endorsing violence" too? Take a look.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8018228

[Bluerthanblue]

73. no he's not-

He's stating his opinion about what Cantor is doing.

I'm not nor have I ever been defending Cantor or his claim.

I'm calling for us to make a unified statement against the threats and actions that have happened recently.

Without any qualifiers-

If I haven't made that clear, I'm sorry.

I don't support this kind of shit no matter who is doing it- or why. I also know enough about humanity to know that there are people with a (D) after their name who do some pretty awful things. That doesn't mean they represent our party- and is no excuse for anything.

All the Beck/Limbaugh/Palin/Milita crap is no excuse or defense for ANYONE to use violence to further their agenda.

If Cantor wants to make the claim that reporting violence is 'politicizing' it- let him. He's wrong.

If he feels guilty when violence is being reported, that says more about him than anything.

peace-

[Naturalist111]

52. NO WAY

maybe some that were broadcasted at teabagger rallies saying hateful things. People who knew them probably thought they needed an attitude adjustment. That isn't political, that would be for humane reasons or against racism. Don't get this confused with people attacking Dems for VOTING on the health bill. It is not the same.

[Warren Stupidity]

54. OUR LEADERS and TALKING HEADS don't DELIBERATELY ENCOURAGE IT

Since early on in the summer of 2008 when it became clear that the Palin Gambit had backfired and Obama was set for a landslide victory, the central committee of the Republican Party set out to deliberately foster violence against the Democratic Party, against people who belong to the urban secular multiracial culture that generally votes Democratic, and against the federal government soon to be controlled by the Democratic Party.

This was not an accident. This is not the work of a few irrational individuals. This is what they have planned.

[Bluerthanblue]

58. and our leaders should re-state that for everyone to hear.

Our Leaders should demonstrate what TRUE leadership is all about by condemning this in no uncertian terms.

That doesn't imply guilt. It may illustrate an important contrast between the Republican leadership and Ours.

This violence is wrong- no "if's, and's or but's about it".

[DainBramaged]

70. Even when they lie about being victims?

[rosesaylavee]

71. Agreed.

We need to be above this and not fan the flames of it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

72. Kick again, because this looks stupider and stupider each passing minute

and that pleases me greatly.