Does anyone here deal with younger folks? 16-25?

[JanMichael]

How did they get to be so damned sure of themselves? I talked to a kid tonight (21) graduating from college, on his way to law school, and wants to be a lawyer and a slum lord. (OK, he did not say slum lord)....I asked him if he was OK, with that, and he got defensive and started talking about ad hominem attacks.

Where are these kids coming from?

Someone reassure me.

[skipos]

1. Too much TV. Not enough parenting

Cnn had a recent article about what you are saying...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/02/27/self.centered.students.ap/

I am not sure why that link doesn't work, but it was similar to this...


http://www.wfls.com/News/FLS/2007/022007/02272007/1172567967

[Bucky]

2. I'm old enough to resent these punks today with their snotty little attitudes...

But I'm also young enough to remember that I was just as bad when I was 20. I'm a HS teacher and I can assure you cockiness and good manners are in a fairly constant ratio among all age groups throughout the years. Most grow out of it, the rest become Republicans.

[diamidue]

43. LOL. Yep, that sounds about right! n/t

[Rosemary2205]

102. I blame it on Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis!

I read someplace Mozart was considered devil music that would destroy the youth in his day.

Elvis and Jerry Lee were going to take us all to hell with them.

Then it was the damn hippies and weed.

Then it was Kiss and Miss Pac Man and Teeeveee.

Now it's those awful rappers and Grand Theft Auto and those damn internet tubes.

:)

[Arugula Latte]

149. Don't forget those crazy radical IMPRESSIONIST painters!!!

How dare they push their freaky, warped, blurry world-view on innocent youth! :grr:

[Hippo_Tron]

110. LMAO, that sounds about right...

[ElizabethDC]

3. Well, I'm in that age group

there are cocky/strange people in every age group, in my experience (which is somewhat limited, obviously, given my youth).

[SammyWinstonJack]

85. And george is one of them, "cocky and strange" He's a baby boomer.

[mmonk]

4. I deal with one 16 and one 22.

They are my sons and though they try my patience at times, their heads are screwed on right and their hearts are in the right place.

[LiberalFighter]

5. It requires good parenting, quality time, plenty of life experiences

[Xithras]

6. They are smarter than you.

Just ask them, they'll tell you.

We're all born full of cocky. Life just knocks it out of some of us faster than others.

I'm curious though...how does someone say they want to be a slum lord without saying they want to be a slum lord?

[AngryAmish]

140. As a matter of fact, they probably are

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect>

"The Flynn effect is the rise of average Intelligence Quotient (IQ) test scores, an effect seen in most parts of the world, although at greatly varying rates. It is named after James R. Flynn, who did much to document it and promote awareness of its implications. This increase has been continuous and roughly linear from the earliest days of testing to the present"

[WorseBeforeBetter]

7. Increasingly affluent society (for many), never having to struggle...

or pay dues, sense of entitlement, etc. I read somewhere recently that many parents are stepping in if their child has a less-than-desireable performance evaluation at work. Can you imagine?!

[ElizabethDC]

10. There's some truth to what you say

I'm a college student - I've benefitted from growing up in an affluent society and all the opportunities that come with it.

We're also overprotected by our parents. There's a new term called "helicopter mom," meaning moms that hover, because they're over-involved in every aspect of their kids' lives. Apparently some parents stay in contect with their kids' professors or even go with their kids on job interviews. My mother is very involved in my life (we talk on the phone everyday and usually e-mail back and forth a lot too) but she's not that bad!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

16. I'm experiencing that now with a gf and her teenage daughter.

It's rather shocking to me how demanding the daughter is and how accommodating the mother is (I'm not suggesting this is your relationship with your mother, BTW). "No" rarely enters in to the equation. Granted, I grew up with a mother who ruled with an iron fist, but surely there's a happy medium. "Kids" have so many opportunities nowadays, which is a good thing, but I'm hoping it's not turning them into little monsters. Little monsters with huge senses of entitlement entering the work force with the rest of us. And yes, I remember walking to school in 4 feet of snow (barefoot?!). ;-)

[Der Blaue Engel]

22. Who would give the time of day to a job applicant who brought his/her mommy?

or daddy?

That would be an instant circular file for the resume with me. And if someone's parent showed up after a bad review, I'd be tempted to revise the review downward. What planet are these people on that they aren't immediately dismissed for this infantile behavior?

[Skittles]

31. exactly what I am thinking

I would throw the parent out

[ElizabethDC]

51. Apparently, some businesses now encourage it

according to an article I read, at least. For the record, I don't know a single parent who would even consider accompanying their child on a job interview, and I know some very overprotective/overinvolved parents!

[live love laugh]

181. I used to work in HR. I was always shocked when parents called for jobs for their kids.n/t

[SmokingJacket]

145. I work at a bookstore and the other day, a mother called up

looking for books for one of her son's college papers. Parents definitely seem more involved in their college kids' lives than when I was in college, when I called my mom once a week. That was pretty normal. She didn't even know what classes I was taking...

[Breeze54]

81. All generations have had to struggle, including this one.

And those YUPPIE, meddlesome, parents are morons!(not boomers in general)

I have three sons that fall close within and just outside the ages the OP used and they
have to work HARD to make any money and have put off college as a result. One joined the
National Guard to pay off school loans! And landed in Iraq. So don't go spouting that all
of this new generation have it easy. Only a small percentage may but I'll bet the majority
have to work for what they want, just like other generations have had to do.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

163. "YUPPIE" is a bit hackneyed.

I stated "for many," not "for all." However, I should have positioned it elsewhere in the post to be more clear.

I've been on this planet 40-something years and have seen "improvements" throughout the generations. Grandparents who rented, parents who scraped money together for a $28,000 home, my post-college roomie and I with beach chairs as living room furniture...to now. I know many are struggling, but I've never seen so many under 30s with six-figure salaries, luxury vehicles, and three-story garage townhomes. I know it's not everywhere in this country, but it's in many areas I've lived or visited. The ever-widening gap.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

164. Dupe (n/t)

[raccoon]

137. Well, if I were that employer, that kid would move up to the top of

my short list to be let go. Very soon.

Seriously, those parents need to be in therapy. :shrug:

[WorseBeforeBetter]

165. I haven't encountered it yet...

but I'm almost licking my chops for when I do.

[Marie26]

138. Baby Boomers had that as well.

Compared to their parent's generation, who struggled through the Great Depression & World War II, Baby Boomers got to grow up in a much more affluent & peaceful society. And they didn't have to deal as much w/alot of the issues that later generations experienced - in terms of crime, drugs, & divorce.

[raccoon]

155. True, but also they and earlier generations had to deal with things

such as sexual abuse and physical abuse, and there was, most of the time, nothing they could do about it. Nobody wanted to hear about it.

And divorce is preferable to living in a war zone.

[medeak]

8. wait until he starts looking for a job

have son graduated from #1 college in nation..masters in UK by age 24..applying to law schools. Incredibly arrogant and self assured until last 6 weeks in the real world looking for work!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

9. When I was that age (a few years ago), I was never that optimistic.

[Madspirit]

15. Starbuck's Anarchist!

...haven't seen you in ages!
Lee

[Starbucks Anarchist]

17. Oh, I've been around.

:hi:

[AlCzervik]

11. i remember being that age and smiling at the "Older folk" who gave me advice

and never following a word of it. I don't think i out right disrespected them but i guess i did in my own way by giving them the "Um yeah, ok, thanks so much" sarcasm look.

[treestar]

12. That generation had a lot of parenting based on reading on

self-esteem, and a lot less religiosity in their upbringing. We older people are unsure of ourselves because we are still trying to get over our early childhood training that God would punish us if we made a mistake (Catholics, at least). We were always learning how unworthy we were - maybe it was so extreme we backlashed and treated the next generation with lavish optimism regarding themselves.

[Malikshah]

13. There has been talk about the narcissus complex tied to the issue of

self-esteem...no one fails...everyone wins/gets a trophy...you can do anything, be anyone, succeed at everything.

The Hard Knock life is not known to some.

I just dealt with someone of this age group that was so focused on his/her career goal--he/she took courses but only took from the courses that which he/she deemed would be useful toward said career goal. Learning for a purpose...teaching to the test... That is not education.

Tie this with the above issues raised and you've got some out there unprepared to deal with:

Hardship
Contrary opinions
Bad luck
Fate
Lack of control over one's life

All looks wonderful for a while. Sailing along with the mast firmly in the center of the boat. A strong wind comes along and the mast does not bend, but rather breaks.

I'm a positive person myself, but realize that life is not always 1) fair 2) easy 3) fun. You learn to look for the fun, appreciate the easy, and strive for the fair.

.
.
.
.
.
.

Now that will be 29.95 for one easy 45-minute cassette tape. (Sorry, I got too cheesy even for myself)

[Iris]

198. I can't even imagine avoiding any kind of classes.

I loved school. What kind of life would that be? To ONLY expose yourself to a finite bit of knowledge or information? No wonder people are so fucked up.

[silverlib]

14. And some give me hope...

My eighteen year-old found a fifty dollar bill on the sidewalk in our neighborhood last week. No one was around to claim it. She called me at work to tell me about her experience. She says she thought for a long time about how to handle it. She went and picked up two of her friends. They went to Jack-in-the-Box and ordered 42 hamburgers and started handing them out to the homeless on the street corners. One man cried. None asked her for money. Most left the corner to eat their hot hamburgers. When she could find no more individuals, she went to an encampment under an overpass and gave the remainder to the people who were there.

Here in lies the hope.

[blondie58]

50. that is wonderful, silverlib

what a wonderful daughter you've raised.

[otherlander]

108. Awww....

That was so thoughtful of her. ^_^
:hi:

[pampango]

148. My eighteen year old son did something similar a couple of weeks

ago. He found $30 outside of an ice cream shop and informed the employees there. Sure enough, within a couple of minutes someone reported losing the money and claimed it.

After he told the story, we discussed the fine line between "doing the right thing" and being a chump, but he stuck by his decision, which is all I wanted to see him do.

[rasputin1952]

154. Good deal...I am glad to see that it was returned to the proper

person...:)

I have a rule I stick by: If I find cash on the street, it is mine, unless i see someone looking for it or actually saw the person lose it. If I can't trace it back to the owner, I call it 'keepsies'...:)

I have found paychecks, endorsed checks and wallets of the course of many years. They go to the local PD, or, in the case of someone close by, I call and tell them I found the item and will either mail it to them, drop it off, or give it to the PD, I leave the option up to them...:) I've never had a problem w/returning a wallet to a person, but the local cops here say that it is best to give it to them to give it back to the owner, that way, I can show I did essentially what was right if there is a discrepancy w/anything that might be "missing". One cop told me that someone had lost a wallet w/$102 in it, and when they called the guy to pick it up, he did, but claimed there was $456 in it when he lost it. After a discussion w/the finder of said item, it was discovered the guy lied like a dog, and was trying to hustle the honest guy out of some cash....x(

[silverlib]

159. That's great...

There are really more good kids out there. They just don't get the props and the glory. The media, in particular, tends to focus on the bad ones.

I know you are justifiably proud of your son!

[tularetom]

18. 2 Granddaughters 24 and 21 used to have a bit of attitude but

life has slapped them upside the head a bit over the past year. They're watching their parents (our daughter and son-in-law) blow their inheritance as they noyride through a joint mid life crisis, and both have suffered career setbacks though not job loss. The older one is pretty resilient and not concerned with possessions, status etc. She's pretty much a hippie/surfer type. The younger is recently married and had a pretty good job in real estate management, but she's gotten a couple of pay cuts due to the real estate slump.

[EFerrari]

19. Don't take away that bit of arrogance they will need to survive this sh!t.

They'll come around. :)

[stevedeshazer]

20. Be reassured

My kids are 27 and 19 and are the smartest and most caring people on the planet.

Love,

Dad

[EFerrari]

21. My oldest is 32 and he has forgiven us and is very active now.

I can't believe any of the facts in that sentence.

:rofl:

:hi:

[Der Blaue Engel]

23. What prompted the term slum lord?

I need more information before I can reassure you.

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

36. Me too. Did he say "real estate investor"?

Self confidence is a good trait.

The main problem as I see it with our University systems, is that they need to teach our kids how to apply their knowledge, ie "entrepreneurship", so that they can learn how to start their own businesses, and not just how to get hired by the corporations.

[mrcheerful]

24. I'm dealing with a somewhat out of control 16 year old myself.

He is another over achiever that refuses to use his talents beyond "just passing a class". He went from a A+ student 2 years ago and is now just getting by with a D- grade. Seems his bio father and his aunt have convinced him that schools for losers and working at a carnival is the answer to life without responsibility. Now he came up with another master plan, get a day time job and go to night school. Yeah right, thats his aunt talking, the queen of the free loaders. Anyone who tries to tell "mr. knowitall" reality, gets promptly told that school is a waste of time when he can be out there making real money, so far since he quit his paper route he has made a fortune scrapping with aunties boy friend, $11.00. As far as actually seeking employment, well just like with school, he thinks that all he has to do is walk into a place of business, flash his award winning smile and he will get hired. In simple words he doesn't have to look for work, work will "find" him. Life without parole is starting to look real good lately.

Edited to add scrapping is picking through trash and getting metal out to sell to the scrap yard.

[dweller]

25. my daughters are 22 and 20

and they give me cool mixed cds of tunes that i've never heard.
(ones married, ones in college, and they get along better now than ever)

we communicate.
dp

[bookman]

26. I was an educator...

..for 30 years. I think it is a natural consequence of all the "self esteem" stuff that was mandated. Failing grades were not allowed and A stood more for average than excellent.

Nothing wrong with being positive, but "constructive" criticism was not even allowed. I once got flak for circling spelling errors.

[Skittles]

33. I just HAVE to ask

what kind of flak can possibly be given for an educator POINTING OUT SPELLING ERRORS ?!!! :o

[tenshi816]

151. In the UK, teachers are routinely

told not to correct spelling anymore. Apparently, it "stifles creativity" and is seen as unnecessary.

I did a BSc as a mature student a few years ago and was astonished at what poor writing/grammar/spelling skills some of my coursemates had. One of them told me his teachers had never bothered correcting his spelling or grammar and that "it's not important anyway". I mentioned this to one of my course lecturers and she responded that even at university level, they were told not to correct spelling and grammar. Instead, they were supposed to grade on "what the student was trying to say, instead of the way it was written".

Crazy, isn't it?

[slowry]

27. Context?

wth? Someone explain this to me...

[Skittles]

28. are you basing all people in that age group on that one piece of shit?

don't do that

[slowry]

29. I don't understand this thread AT ALL.

WTF is going on? Some kid who wants to be a lawyer... I don't know wtf the op is talking about...

[Skittles]

32. well the gist I get is

the kid is cocky and self-assured and thinks slum-lording is a swell thing to do. Finding that appalling is OK; I'm lost on the part where this becomes the mindeset of an entire age group :o

[slowry]

34. lol k.

Never heard this term up in Canader, so I was mighty confused.

Cheers!

[Marie26]

62. I don't get it either. nt

[Lone_Star_Dem]

30. Not a popular opinion but...

I blame it on the parents. I've seen so many great kids lose track over the last four years. All because they either didn't have strong support/direction from their parents, or they grew up in a family with no heart and decided to follow suit.

Mine is 20 and she's a beautiful of mind and heart person. Even without my parental prejudice she's still a good person. I won't go into detail so don't start cringing. I'll just say she's politically active and busy changing hearts and minds in an area that at one time had no such thing as "College Democrats." She's never shied away from a challenge. She wants to change the world and thinks she can do it. I love young people. Their dreams and idealisms. It makes me all teary eyed, but I digress. She has peers who agree with her, and work with her toward their vision of an ideal world. Considering where she is the very fact that she has the support she's managed to gather is hope for me for our future.

Remember, our youth are no more than what they've been raised to be...unless someone teaches them otherwise.

[IChing]

35. Some are full of bullshit and some are a vessel that has other goods aboard

And are wise enough to cast that bullshit overboard before
their ship of consciousness sinks

Adults of all ages do the same.


I have great faith in our youth.

[rasputin1952]

37. I am older than dirt, and I go to classes w/all kinds of snot-nosed

little cretins at college. They have this notion they know everything...(caveat: I was the same way at that age.)

In my Am Gov't class, I open my mouth all of the time, and some of the students have come to realize that you do learn from experience in life.

I had one guy who wanted to go into politics, and said he was GOP material; I laughed out loud, and said that even here in Nebraska, the GOP was losing steam because of the neo-cons. I asked him "why" he was an R, all he could say was that his family were always R's, and that he would carry on the tradition.

OK...I asked if any of his family had served in the military, he said yes, and I asked why he didn't want to carry on THAT tradition...silence...just silence.

It can be fun...:D

[Skittles]

40. you are awesome, rasputin!

:thumbsup:

[rasputin1952]

41. There are a lot of bright kids in my classes, and I'm happy to

say that there are a lot of women in the classes, many more than males.

When I took Eng 101 one Summer, me and one other guy were the only two males, 11 females, including the instructor made up the rest of the class. The other male, was a bit older than I, and a "preacher". I have no idea what "church" he with, but he made a statement in class one time that, "all women are whores". Not one of the women said a thing, although they looked aghast.

I got pissed, so I asked him if he had a mother, sisters or daughters/nieces or a wife. Before he could answer, I asked if I could meet them, because I was horny as hell. This brought some break in the tension, but I hammered it home that this guy was way out of line, and he should keep his Dark Age mentality to himself until he could change. He left the class telling me I was "damned", to which I responded, "GOOD, we can continue this conversation in hell...I'll track you down!"

He never came back...:)

What disturbed me was that the class didn't call him on this immediately, they just took it...sad state of affairs there...:(

[Skittles]

47. I don't umderstand people who take abuse either

I speak up immediately, not just for myself, but for any abuse I witness. I KICK ASS !!!

[rasputin1952]

52. LOL...your reputation preceeds you...

Many times I have seen versions of, "wait till Skittles reads this, she's gonna KICK YOUR ASS!!!!" :rofl:

[Skittles]

56. LOL

when I was growing up as a GI brat I saw it in every school, the bullies.....when I moved as a teenager from England to a small town in Iowa my first day in school I was eating in the cafeteria...I watched three bullies at one table tossing pieces of food at a skinny, pimpled bespectacled boy sitting alone at another table. I picked up my tray, walked over to them and tossed the whole tray of food at them, splattering them with roast beef, potatoes, corn and cobler. HAVE A NICE DAY I said, then stomped over to a table of jocks and screamed WHY DO YOU LET THOSE SHITS DO THAT STUFF, WHY DON'T YOU HELP THAT GUY, YOU'RE WUSSES!!!! After that they did intervene......I found out later those bullies had been picking on that kid since grade school. I put a stop to it in ONE DAY!!! :D

[rasputin1952]

72. FANTASTIC!!!!! Only way to deal w/bullies is straight forward!

Speaking of school stories, when I was in AZ, I got a call at work from the Asst Principal that my son was in trouble. He was in the 4th grade at the time.

He saw a girl being picked on in the schoolyard, some jerks were calling her skinny, four-eyed, ugly, stuff like that. John didn't know the girl, but he went over and asked these clods why they were picking on the girl, this escalated into a small argument, and the "head bully" tried to pop John one. John deflected the blow, and popped the kid right in the nose, just as one of the teachers was coming out the door. Before she could get there, John had the bully on the ground pounding the crap out of him.

When I got to the school, The AP and the teacher were in the office, w/John sitting outside the door. I asked him what happened, and he just started crying. I gave him a hug and went in to find out the situation. After being told what had happened, I asked what the officials wanted to do, the AP looked at the teacher and said, "I didn't see anything", teacher responded, "neither did I". Then, off the record, they told me this group was trouble from the get go, and they hoped this might break them up once the "leader" got knocked about. It worked, and the bullies gave my son a very wide berth after that. He was afraid he was going to get into trouble w/me, but I told him he did the right thing by protecting the girl. We all learned a valuable lesson that day...:)

[Skittles]

100. OUTSTANDING!

it appalls me that in every school I attended the bullies were well known but were allowed to get away with their sh** - I remember a boy picking on an overweight girl at recess - I screamed at her DON"T TAKE THIS SHIT and started kicking the hell out of him - she laughed and promised me she would start to fight back after seeing that kid run away from me!! :thumbsup:

[raccoon]

142. Good for you for calling this asshole on that.

:yourock:

"What disturbed me was that the class didn't call him on this immediately, they just took it...sad state of affairs there... "

Disturbs me too. Was this a religious-affiliated college?

[rasputin1952]

152. No, local Community College, during the encapsulated Summer

Classes. It was bad enough these things lasted some 2.5 hrs each 4 days a week, but to have that jughead in there was just too much for me.

One of the great benefits that came of the situation was that I got to know the instructor better, and we became friends. She has an outstanding mind, and is witty and just plain fun to be around. I took Eng 102 w/her after that and did much better than 101, (I really blew it in the 'research paper dept', and came out of the class w/a C+. If I had done things correctly, I would have aced 101 like I did 102...:( ).

I have no idea what "denomination" this guy was, but I figure if I ever walked into his "church", I'd burst into flames....:rofl:

[wicket]

118. Bwahahahahahaha love the response!

:yourock:

[blogslut]

38. The arrogance of youth

is nothing new.

[H2O Man]

49. Right.

It's their job.

[slampoet]

39. You have all officially Become Your Parents....

[uppityperson]

42. i knew so much at that age, was so wise, my parents so staid and stupid.

It was up to me to fix the world because the older generation had messed it up and besides no one knew or cared like I did and I knew the best way to get things the Way they Should be.

Now I have a child partway through that age group and said child is arrogant, know it all, and very caring empathetic person. It is nothing new, and usually, or often perhaps, young people find their parents gain some sense again when they, the young person, gets to be mid-20's-30ish.

[gravity]

44. I notice a lot of kids my age don't accept responsibility for their actions

when something goes wrong. They always blame it on someone else making excuses, even when it's clearly their fault. I never heard a story of someone getting into a traffic accident because it was their own fault.

To be fair, a lot of older folks have that problem too, like our own president.

[WA98296]

45. My 23 year old is in law school, and she is totally awesome. She has worked

to help those in need, since before she was in high school.

[JVS]

46. Slum lording looks like a good business to get into with the current economy

[DFW]

48. Another ancient chiming in

(I own fossils of animals that used to be my house pets)

I have two daughters, 22 and 24. They are in school, trying to
find their own way, living modestly, and (thankfully) below my
means. They are kind, helpful, and, best of all, get nothing but
glowing reviews from people that have nothing at all to gain by
telling us so.

They are not cocky, and tread carefully. I'm not worried.

[SayWhatYo]

53. Because we know everything.

Duhh, old man. :P

[DFW]

54. Yah, yah, rub it in

I've been called that by experts. Make my day!

[KharmaTrain]

55. I Have A Lot Of Hopes For The Future

My daughter is 22, son is almost 20 and they're very intelligent, compassionate and driven people. I envy their ability to deal with this crazy world and have not only made some sense of it, but their own purpose as well.

Yes, I've seen some who are wreckless or stupidity, but that was the same with my generation...and even worse. However, many of the young people my kids have brought into our house share similar values and lifestyles as my kids. In '04, we worked at organizing many of these people to become voters and I was impressed with their interest in the process...far more passionate and involved than my 40-50'ish friend.

There's always gonna be an exception...and it appears that's what you ran into. But then even in the 60's had their Neidemeiers...



Cheers...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. I Fail To See The Issue Here Or What Has Gotten You Worked Up.

What exactly did he do to irk you?

[porphyrian]

58. These damn whippersnappers, with their phonographs and horseless carriages...!

You aren't seeing kids acting different than they ever have, you're seeing yourself get old.

[Marie26]

59. There are jerks in every age group.

I'm not sure what this one example is supposed to show. :shrug: Probably, the Great Depression generation thought the baby boomers were too sure of themselves.

[MedleyMisty]

60. So one person represents an entire age group?

Hey, isn't Bush a Baby Boomer? I am going to make him the representation of everyone who's 50 to 65, okay? You are all hateful stupid warmongers.

Oh, and I'm 26.

[otohara]

61. Entitlements R Them

I know so many kids who have grown up in wealthy homes, I'm pretty sure many expect to be living in a trendy loft downtown and making fists of money very soon.

On the other hand...I see them making mediocre salaries (cuz that's how it really works for quite a while) and sharing small but expensive apts with 3/4 other people for a very long time.

[Cleita]

63. Those are the know-it-all years. We all went through them too.

Thank god they outgrow it. In the meantime, you might want to explain your position in a gentle and non-critical way to them if they are willing to listen. They still are trying to learn.

[Breeze54]

64. So, he's snotty because he wants to be a lawyer and own rental housing?

That's making you upset?? What am I missing? :shrug:

Something in your recount of the story is missing.

[tjwash]

65. Sounds like me at that age.

I knew everything there was to know about everything.

Hell, when I was 22, I thought my dad was the dumbest person who ever walked the face of the earth. When I was 32 I was amazed how much he had learned in those past 10 years...

[Hardrada]

66. Yeah, I am ancient but I am recruiting them for the SDS

so then I can let them carry the rad spark onwards. They'll do it too! I've met a lot of great college kids in the last few years. A lot more progressive than my nephews who grew up in the 80's. (The parents really make a major difference too).

[Zhade]

67. Most of my friends are in their early-mid twenties.

Being MY friends, they're not like you describe - but yeah, many young adults are like that. Hubris of youth (I'm still getting past it myself).

[Firespirit]

68. Who on earth are you talking about?

16-25 year olds, sure of themselves?

I'm on the upper end of that age range, and interact a lot with people in their younger 20s. That generation is anything but sure of itself. In order to live away from our families, which most people out of college do want to do, we have to choose between holes in the wall or bunking up with three or four roommates just to pay the bills. Home ownership is completely out of the question, totally unthinkable at this point. Many of us have massive college debts to pay off and have to fight to get entry level $10/hour jobs with college degrees.

I don't understand the resentment of baby boomers, who came of age into a world that was at least fairly prosperous, towards their own children. I thought polls showed that most parents of the boomer generation felt that they had more opportunities when they came of age than their children do now.

:shrug:

[Breeze54]

73. Everything you talk about also happened in 1970's and 80's...

In order to live away from our families, which most people out of college do want to do, we have
to choose between holes in the wall or bunking up with three or four roommates just to pay the bills.
Home ownership is completely out of the question, totally unthinkable at this point. Many of us have
massive college debts to pay off and have to fight to get entry level $10/hour jobs with college degrees.

I don't understand the resentment of baby boomers, who came of age into a world that was at least
fairly prosperous, towards their own children.

:wtf: :rofl::rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

"a world that was at least fairly prosperous,towards their own children"??

My oldest kid is YOUR age!!! :rofl:

You shouldn't confuse Boomers with Yuppies. There is a difference. ;)

[Firespirit]

75. Yuppies

I've seen a number of definitions of a boomer, but in general it seems to be the generation born between 1945 and 1960. Meaning that the younger end of it came of age during the Raygun 80's and would be the original definition of Yuppies. The Boomers created Yuppies. Gen-X certainly didn't, seeing as how they were, um, children during the 1980s, and Gen-Y was being born at that time. Fuzzy maths?

Yuppies aside, the boomers DID vote for Bush (look at the breakdown of polls), DID vote for Raygun, and DID vote for Bush1. I've read extensively on generational divides, and the boomer generation, growing up in a postwar environment, developed an extreme sense of ambition that ultimately led to the glorification of selfishness that was Raygunomics.

Since you mock the extreme financial hardship that Gen-X and Gen-Y face with student loans, I advise you to read up on it, starting here. This site tells about younger people in recent years who wanted nothing more than to go to college and experience the promise that the boomers had, and ended up bankrupt, their credit destroyed, unable to get a place to live or a job to pay for it, and several of whom committed suicide. Funny stuff, that. :sarcasm:

You haven't explained why parents resent their own children and slam the younger generation on the Web. But, since you wrote off my entire post with a series of mocking laughs, I'm not expecting you to justify that position. Welcome to ignore.

[Breeze54]

76. I'm laughing that you think your financial plight is new

and that boomers didn't experience the same thing. They did!!
You seem to think all boomers were rich and gainfully employed! Not true!!!
Read about the raygun years! It was one of the most difficult times that I can remember!
Boomers didn't create yuppies but yuppies came from among the boomers.
I wouldn't doubt that Yuppies voted for *! They are most likely rethugs too! ;)

A yuppie, as defined by Wikipedia, is short for "Young Urban Professional," and describes
a demographic of people primarily comprising the children or grandchildren of the baby boomer
generation.

(I don't agree with that definition. Yuppies came from the Boomers, of the same age group)

Most commonly, yuppies are highly-educated and upwardly-mobile and are aged from early twenties
to early-to-mid thirties, circa 2006. Yuppies tend to hold jobs in the professional sectors,
with incomes that place them in the upper-middle economic class.

The term is often used pejoratively, with an emphasis on the connotations
of "yuppies" as selfish and superficial.

Now I would agree with that!!! ;)

-------------------

"This site tells about younger people in recent years who wanted nothing more than
to go to college and experience the promise that the boomers had, and ended up bankrupt,
their credit destroyed, unable to get a place to live or a job to pay for it, and several
of whom committed suicide."

I'm in the same boat! Funny THAT!!!! Except the suicide part.

"You haven't explained why parents resent their own children and slam the younger generation on the Web"

How would I know what other parents do or don't do? :shrug:
If anybody's slamming GenXer's then I would guess they are probably idiot rethugs!
Sorry you want to ignore. I try to keep an open mind.

[Firespirit]

113. The difference is that there's no light at the end of the tunnel in sight

Ah, so you've had some financial difficulties, so that means that it's fine to hoot it up about others with those problems. Gotcha. And, for the record, I'm not referring to myself -- I had a scholarship and I have a job that allows for financial independence on the Atlantic seaboard, of all (outrageously overpriced) places, and I have my own place without roommates. I have an engineering degree and graduated cum laude, and I am making $15/hour after taxes. Like it or not, though, this is an economy in which that degree means nothing whatsoever. A college degree used to be worth something. I don't even want to think what young people with only a high school education must do.

Did you look at that site? There were isolated cases of student loan sharking (which is basically what it is) going on, no doubt -- but after 1997 it got MUCH worse. 1997 is when the cusp of Gen X/Y started attending college.

How would you know about what parents do? Well, the OP is one example of the older generation attacking the younger online.

[JanMichael]

117. Very very few Gen Xers were starting college in 1997.

By any standards, which are all suspect, yet your statement is simply mathematically impossible.

GenX runs from 1964 (the earliest year I've seen) to 1981 (the latest date I've seen).

"1997 is when the cusp of Gen X/Y started attending college."

If you wish to play statistical games then perhaps this may in the aggregate (meaning you count all after-Xers add Xers then get the median.) be correct but GenX'ers almost exclusively began college in the 80's and early 90's not the late 90's.

[Firespirit]

128. A cusp in generational terms

A cusp in generational terms is the boundary between one generation and another.

Thus, 1997 would be when the cusp of X and Y went to college.

Not that hard.

[Ignacio Upton]

194. Correct

The high school class of 1997 would have been the last class composed primarily of students born in the 1970's. Most of the people who graduated that year were born in 1978-1979. 1979-1980 is the cusp for Gen Y. This year, we're seeing a changing of the guard again, as the class of 2007 will be the last class comprised mostly of students born in the 1980's. Next year's college freshman will be mostly made up of people born in 1990. However, I've never really heard anyone say that a new generation began that year. Personally, I think Gen Y stopped at 1996-1997, as people born during this period would have been in Kindergarten or in pre-school when 9/11 happened, and most would barely remember the beginning of the new millennium (if at all). People born in 1994-1995 (who are now in middle school and hitting puberty) were just old enough to understand what Y2K and 9/11 meant, and thus would qualify as late Gen Yers.

[Breeze54]

119. I WAS NOT LAUGHING AT YOU!

I was laughing at the premise that boomers have had it fucking easy!!!!!!!!

Some financial troubles?? I am still having MAJOR troubles!
You and your gen. aren't the only ones!!!
But from what you write, you are doing great!!!! Congratulations!!
I live on the east coast and the cost of living here is outrageous!!

I already chastised the OP and he did say that he should've expanded on his post.
And he already posted to another that he did leave out some details (I'd say a lot of details!)
I also have a degree(s) and do you know how many times my jobs PLURAL have been shifted
over seas? Do you know how many times I've had to start over??? Life is hard!!!
It throws curve balls and fast balls and fouls. One right after the other! And surprises. ugh!
I did and do sympathize with you but there are many here that are going through the same shit!
And we are a lot older than you but my two oldest sons are having the same difficulties that
you are having, so I do know some about that and I do understand your anger! I don't agree with
the OP's broad brushing and I think we just all have to try to understand each other. Ya know?

I hope things stay good for you.

[ghostsofgiants]

69. They're almost as bad as arrogant baby boomers who write off an entire generation...

Based on the few idiots they happen to encounter.

[Marie26]

70. In a hit & run post, no less. nt

[JanMichael]

94. hit and run?

Give me a break, please. Try "post and go to bed."

Look at the time before you post stuff like that. Not everyone sits on the net 24/7 wondering about their posts.

[Marie26]

136. Hey, you're back

Can you explain what this person said that so offended you? The OP is very, very vague. He wants to go to law school, OK. And you think he wants to be a slum lord, although he didn't say that. What exactly did he say? And he thought you were engaging in personal attacks, which maybe you were. There's a lot of holes in this story that need to be filled in before anyone can really offer an opinion about this guy's character, much less the character of a whole generation.

[Firespirit]

71. ...

Thank you. I get very sick of the Gen-X/Y bashing, about as sick as I get of the calls for a draft.

OUR generation did not vote for Bush. The boomers DID. Not to play one-upmanship here, but I'm thoroughly sick of it.

[Breeze54]

74. Haven't you been

old enough to vote for at least 6 years? :shrug:
You said you were near that age of 25 in another reply.

* wasn't elected anyway...remember Diebold?

[piedmont]

83. Maybe Firespirit meant that Bush didn't win our age group. nt

[Breeze54]

84. Maybe that was it but

I don't think he won all of my age group either! ;)

He failed to capture 49% of the votes.

In fact, I don't think he 'won' at all!

[piedmont]

86. What age group *did* he win, anyway? Is there some particular age when...

one goes through a total shithead phase?

[Breeze54]

87. LOL! - Youth Voting Trends: Midterm Elections (Age 18-29)

Is there some particular age when one goes through a total shithead phase?
:rofl:

I had a link for the results of the votes, according to age groups. One sec.

Actually the youth vote seems to be declining. :( Less people your age voted!

------------------------------------------------------

Youth Voting Trends: Midterm Elections (Age 18-29)

http://www.civicyouth.org/quick/youth_voting.htm

In 2006, young people were more likely than adults 30 and older to identify
as strictly independents (26 percent vs. 18 percent) and less likely to
identify as Republicans (28 percent vs. 35 percent).
Compared to 2002, somewhat more young adults are identifying as independents
(up 2 points) though slightly fewer identify as Democrats (down 1 point).

In the most recent midterm election in 2002, 22 percent of young adults voted.
However, the best comparison to this year's election may be the 1994 midterm,
because it was the last midterm to follow a similar surge in youth voting.
In 1994, 26 percent of 18- to 29-year olds voted.

Youth Voting Trends: Presidential Elections (Age 18-24- tabulations for age 18-29 available upon request)

Youth voting surged by 11 percentage points in 2004. In presidential election years between 1972 and 2000,
the turnout rate had declined by 16 percentage points among young citizens before rebounding by 11 percentage
points in the 2004 election. It remains to be seen if the increase in youth turnout in 2004 is part of a new
trend or is instead a spike in youth electoral participation like the 1992 election.

In 2004, 47% of 18-24 year old citizens voted, 66% of citizens 25 and older voted.


Single young people, particularly women, are more likely to vote than married young people.
The turnout among single women age 18-24 led the way and increased by 12 percentage points,
or about one third, since 2000.

Source: The Youth Vote 2004

In 2004 youth voter turnout was highest in
Minnesota (69%), Wisconsin (63%), Iowa (62%), Maine (59%), and New Hampshire (58%).

------------------------

[Firespirit]

114. 2000

My birthday was a few days after that election, unfortunately, but I voted in every election since then.

FTR I agree that he stole both, although I suspect he may have legitimately won the national popular vote in '04. Not sure. But it was the "security mom" group that made it close enough to steal, and that sure isn't the under-30's.

[Odin2005]

105. IIRC the folks on the border of the Boom and Xer generation are the most Republican

The folks born in the early 60's are the most Republican-voting age group in the US right now. Basically it is the folks who came of age when Reagan was president and the Pukes were bashing the government that are the most Republican.

[raccoon]

143. I get very sick of the boomer bashing,

about as sick as I get of the talk of how they've always had it so great.

"OUR generation did not vote for Bush. The boomers DID. Not to play one-upmanship here, but I'm thoroughly sick of it."

This boomer didn't vote for him, and lots of other didn't.

I work at a college and I remember two young men saying Bush was "their man" before the 2004 election. Made me want to puke.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

79. I like 'boomer music and many 'boomers, but not those who use broad brushes

on the rest of us.

:thumbsup:

[SpiralHawk]

77. Ooooh, why can't they be like we were?

Perfect in every way.

What's the matter with kids todaaaaaaayyy?

[Marie26]

141. They've become their parents

I hope I don't end up whining about those disrespectful kids one day, but maybe I will. Doesn't anyone in the older crowd want to acknowledge that their parents' generation said the same thing about them?

[SpiralHawk]

162. Ahhh, that's the implication of that song, marie

crank up your Victrola, and give it a spin...

[WritingIsMyReligion]

78. We're coming from where we've always come from.

Some of us are dickheads. Some of you were dickheads, too, and innumerable adults still are truly assholish. I don't see how we're particularly different from previous generations, except in that we have more room and various media through which we may express ourselves.

:shrug:

[Jennicut]

80. That is such a generalization

I am back in college now to get my certificate to teach preschool. At 31, I am in class with all different age groups from 19 to 40ish. I don't see the younger students as being obnoxious. I was not a brat at ages 18-to-22. I was studious, serious and had a steady boyfriend. In fact, I think I'm less serious now! (You would be too with 1 and 2 year olds). I think the younger you are the less experience in life you have but I was into politics at age 17 and I did not want anyone to tell me my opinions did not matter because I was just some kid. I hate how previous generations yell about "the dumb kids" and conveniently forget what they were like at that age.

[JanMichael]

92. No offense, but you are describing yourself over a decade ago

There are studies right now about this new generation. They are narcissistic as hell...I don't know where you go to school, but every prof. I know is bitching about it.

[Jennicut]

172. No offense, but I was describing the kids in my class.

And they were not narcissitic republicans! They hate Bush and want some kind of change to happen in the world. I go to college in Connecticu. Maybe if people would stop with the generalizations we could all understand each other better. Well, except for Rethugs. There is no understanding them.

[piedmont]

82. Sounds like he was right. Why do you have a problem with rental housing and lawyers? nt

[JanMichael]

89. Libertarian greedy fucknuts are on my shitlist.

This p.o.s. had no problem with the exploitation of the poor. As usual he was a greed machine with a superior than thou smirk.

[piedmont]

91. You didn't supply enough details in th OP.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with being either a lawyer or a landlord. Did he say anything particularly offensive?

[JanMichael]

97. Libertarian, going to school, and interested

in being a "low income landlord" and real estate developer. Thinks people interested in "Green" building are suckers.

Honestly, I should have written that, I posted this out of "oh gross" went to bed, and didn't think anyone would pay attention to the post.

Sorry.

[Hippo_Tron]

111. He sounds like a College Republican type to me...

Did they not have those when you were 16-25?

[JanMichael]

116. Actually he hates Repukes and the whole system.

BUT hopes for "real" capitalism and "real" "free trade".

Like many neo-liberals I suppose and perhaps half of DUers.

Once again I can't stand them.

[DireStrike]

88. Sure of ourselves?

I've been in college for 3.5 years now and haven't declared a major.

[ProgressiveAmPatriot]

90. Baby boomers should look in the mirror and see their reflection: Bush, the baby boomer president

As a member of Generation Y, I always love it when baby boomers rant about my generation. Your parents fought in WWII and built an education system which made you the best educated generation in American history. You have so far spent your generation's time in power undermining the public schools of my generation, the generation that will pay for your retirement because you as a generation both individually and collectively have failed miserably to plan for retirement. My generation will fix the system that you have broken. In my generation, there are roughly the same number of Republicans as there are atheists. We vote overwhelming Democratic. We are overwhelmingly progressive. Your generation as a whole has ignored global warming. If we cut emissions by 75% by 2050 the best scientists still believe that there is 50/50 chance that we will experience some of the most catastrophic effects of global warming. Your generation polluted the earth, ours will clean it up. George W. Bush is your president. You voted for him. He is your responsibility. He is your collective failure. From the ashes of your collective failure, my generation will rebuild America.

Don't like how your generation is collectively characterized? Didn't personally vote for the baby boomer president? Feel that Bush doesn't accurately represent your beliefs? Well then stop characterizing my generation as a bunch of apathetic self-serving yuppies who don't care about the world.

[JanMichael]

96. Not a baby boomer

There is more than one "older" generation now. Heard of "X?"

[raccoon]

144. Well, member of Gen y,

"Your parents fought in WWII and built an education system which made you the best educated generation in American history."

The schools I went to were crappy. I went to public school in the 50's and 60's in one of the poorest counties of one of the poorest states of that time. THE SCHOOLS in my neck of the woods WERE SHITTY. But in those days, nobody gave that a thought, they just sent their kids to the school that was down the road.


"You have so far spent your generation's time in power undermining the public schools of my generation, the generation that will pay for your retirement because you as a generation both individually and collectively have failed miserably to plan for retirement."

Not all, not all.

My generation will fix the system that you have broken. In my generation, there are roughly the same number of Republicans as there are atheists. We vote overwhelming Democratic. We are overwhelmingly progressive. Your generation as a whole has ignored global warming. If we cut emissions by 75% by 2050 the best scientists still believe that there is 50/50 chance that we will experience some of the most catastrophic effects of global warming. Your generation polluted the earth, ours will clean it up.

"George W. Bush is your president. You voted for him. He is your
He is NOT my President. I didn't vote for him. He is not my responsibility not my failure.


"Don't like how your generation is collectively characterized? ...
"Well then stop characterizing my generation as a bunch of apathetic self-serving yuppies who don't care about the world."

And you please stop using such a broad brush.

Let my remind you boomers ended the draft by their protests. If they hadn't, young people would be having to deal with it now.

[ProgressiveAmPatriot]

166. Now we are on the same page n/t

[SomeoneThere]

168. raccoon

The point of his post was to stop stereotyping our whole generation like he just did with the boomers.

[raccoon]

171. Maybe. I am so tired of generation stereotyping--maybe you are too.

In RL, I've known 20 somethings who are spoiled and have an enormous sense of entitlement. I've known others who did NOT have it easy growing up, who are hard-working, nice people who don't have a sense of entitlement.

I guess I've gotten to where I have a knee-jerk reaction to those stereotypes.

[Gabi Hayes]

93. Why can't they be like we were...perfect in every way. Oh, WHAT's

the matter with kids

To

DAY?

[JanMichael]

95. This is what's wrong with them:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/27/health/main2519593.shtml

[ProgressiveAmPatriot]

98. Oh the horrors of volunteering

Some analysts have commended today's young people for increased commitment to volunteer work. But Twenge viewed even this phenomenon skeptically, noting that many high schools require community service and many youths feel pressure to list such endeavors on college applications.

I volunteer 7-10 hours of my time per week that is not required. You are looking for what you want to see, rather than looking for both the positives and the negatives. Your generation should look in the mirror (see my post above).

[JanMichael]

112. oh I see

Thanks.

[greenbriar]

99. I read a story today about kids born after 1983 are the most self-centered

narcissistic bunch of kids ever spawned

[Breeze54]

103. I've read similar about kids born in the 20's & the 60's!

;)

[Odin2005]

106. The study I'm assuming that story is based on is BS.

A couple months ago a study was published claiming that my generation was a bunch of narcissists. A few days later I there was a call in program on public radio on the study featuring the author of the study on one side and the sociologist William Strauss, author of a book on us Gen-Yers called "Millennials Rising", on the other hand criticizing the study. Mr. Strauss, backed up by Gen-Yers calling in, basically ripped the study to shreds. It is the Baby Boomers that is the real generation of narcissists, not us.

[Breeze54]

121. Please stop with the

Assinine finger pointing!!!! :banghead:

EVERY GENERATION BLAMES THE ONE BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read some history, please! Gheesh!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Living Years

Every generation
Blames the one before
And all of their frustrations
Come beating on your door

I know that Im a prisoner
To all my father held so dear
I know that Im a hostage
To all his hopes and fears
I just wish I could have told him in the living years

Crumpled bits of paper
Filled with imperfect thought
Stilted conversations
Im afraid thats all weve got

You say you just dont see it
He says its perfect sense
You just cant get agreement
In this present tense
We all talk a different language
Talking in defence

Say it loud, say it clear
You can listen as well as you hear
Its too late when we die
To admit we dont see eye to eye

So we open up a quarrel
Between the present and the past
We only sacrifice the future
Its the bitterness that lasts

So dont yield to the fortunes
You sometimes see as fate
It may have a new perspective
On a different day
And if you dont give up, and dont give in
You may just be o.k.

Say it loud, say it clear
You can listen as well as you hear
Its too late when we die
To admit we dont see eye to eye

By Mike & The Mechanics

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/m/mike+&+the+mechanics/the+living+years_20093565.html

[BlueStater]

160. I don't think today's generation is any more self-centered than the ones that preceded it

And I say that as a member of this generation. I had to deal with a lot of assholes when I was in high school. And I'm sure 40 or 30 years ago so did you.

[Odin2005]

101. You have a problem with us 21-year-olds being assertive and optimistic?

Let me guess, you're a Boomer... :eyes:

[malaise]

104. We have made some of them believe they're way

more intelligent than they are. Their sense of entitlement is mind-blowing, but I use good humor to bring them down to earth.

Too many of my own generation have made their kids believe they are more important and have more rights than themselves. Many of my generation have taught their kids (implicitly and/or explicitly) to be selfish, dismissive of others, crave material things and ignore everything about their own society. Their sense of importance is hysterically funny.

One of my second year students challenged a point I made during our office our meeting. I took my time and destroyed his argument and unmasked his arrogant ass. I then asked him why he registered for University if he already had the answers. I asked him to trace his life and tell me whether he thought he had acquired any wisdom and/or knowledge at different stages. He started to laugh and told me that he'd never thought about it before. This little moron who won't even read all the required readings decided to bring his bullshit to me and I called his ass on it. I laughed all the way through - to be truthful I ridiculed his attempt to bullshit me because he hadn't read a damn thing on the subject.

By the time I was finished our meeting he knew that I don't entertain stupid arrogant punks who believe my role is to encourage them to bluff their way to their BMW (which is what they all crave).

But hey, on the other hand there are some amazing young people - curious, engaging and thirsty for knowledge. They are environmentally and politically conscious. They actually care about others. Some of them aren't that smart but they try very hard and really want an education. I love the really smart but conscious ones and those who try.

[otherlander]

107. It's almost as if they're... *children* or something...

[fishwax]

109. I work with that age group, and they're great, by and large

some of them are naively optimistic, but that's appropriate for their age, I think. Past generations, too, had people who aspired to exploit others ...

[JTG of the PRB]

115. I think most of us aged 20-25 will turn out alright.

Those kids aged 14-20, though... I really worry about them. I see their standards declining every year. They seem less attentive, more conformist, and even less individual than ever. Of course, there ARE exceptions - those brilliant, individual, thoughtful kids - but they seem rarer and rarer these days.

Maybe I'm just being a cocky 24-year-old, but when my generation is done leading the world, the thought of this NEXT generation leading it scares me a little right now.

[Breeze54]

123. I think you'll turn out alright, too!

My son is 18, about to graduate high school, has been working since he was 14, and all his
friends work too! They don't drink, smoke or do drugs (switched at birth?) :rofl: They go
out and play baseball, basketball and bowling after work for fun and then go out to eat on
days off. I'm really trying to figure out if he was switched at birth and they think it's funny
when I say that! My son not only earns his diploma but also graduates with a non-outsourcing
trade! So do two of his other friends and his best friend is going to an ivy league college in Sept.
Don't worry! The generation coming up behind you are really great kids, just like your generation!

:hug:

[JTG of the PRB]

127. I can only hope so...

...but when I read you talking about your son, suddenly I feel like an unimaginable slacker! LOL!

[Breeze54]

130. He makes me feel the same way!

:rofl:

He's just an ambitious, gentle giant! ;) (6'3"/220!)
But I am proud of him and his older brothers too!
Where did I go wrong?? LMAO!!
I can't get him to agree to go to college though. :(
Yet!! But all in due time...when he's ready....
He says the company he works for, will pay for that
and that's why he's waiting. Good plan! :thumbsup:

[SomeoneThere]

169. asdf

Anyone from their preteen years to 24-25 years old have been categorized as the same generation according to a lot of articles I read.

[Warren DeMontague]

120. You mean he got defensive about ad hominem attacks... after you called him a would-be "slum lord"?

Wow, go figure.

[JanMichael]

122. He did the describing on his own.

Dude I know an asshole when I meet one. Especially when he lays it out on his/her own. This isn't rocket science. Sometimes one meets a truly greedy person who actually says that he is a truly greedy person.

Go figure.

[Breeze54]

125. I hear you JanMichael.

Next time you might want to add more details to your Op and expand on it! :rofl:
Ah, but we live and learn, right?? :) If he said 'slum-lord' then he is an asshat!
I agree! But, if he said 'low income housing' then have at it!! That is becoming
harder and harder for working families to find! ;)

[Warren DeMontague]

131. The OP really wasn't that specific. Reading it, it could be taken as you called him that.. thus

precipitating the defensiveness. :shrug:

So out of curiosity; what the kid actually say?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

153. You dodged the question.

What makes you think the person wants to be a slum lord?

[Warren DeMontague]

129. Edit: Self-delete. nt

[enki23]

124. TA for freshmen chem. i see a different side (the one that fails all the time)

nothing like freshmen chemistry lab to make a person feel inadequate. ;)

[jarrodwvoh]

126. I teach high school English. Some kids are damn near impossible

[cherokeeprogressive]

132. My Fiance's nephew made an award winning documentary... 365 Boots on the Ground

He wore the camera from boot camp until he was sent back to the World. It won the Cecil B. DeMille award at Chapman College in So. Cal. two years ago. He was 21.

He'd stop a bullet for anyone here. I'm sure of it.

He swaggers. He earned it.

Buy the movie.

[Breeze54]

133. Cool! Glad he's back

from the sandbox! Sounds interesting!

[cherokeeprogressive]

135. It is a VERY interesting DVD

I had a hard time discerning his feelings one way or the other, until I asked. It's the most objective view of the whole situation I've seen.

[fishnfla]

134. you blame all for what you got from one?

where are you coming from?

[BluePatriot]

139. 23 year old here

I think it was all the "self esteem" junk. Looking back I know it was a big social experiment and no one knew what would really happen.

I don't know if our attitudes are always bad, though. For example:

50 year old: "Look, this is your place of employment and how life works." *points at lipstick covered pig*

23 year old: "What the hell?" *fires up barbecue*

Yeah, maybe we are annoying, but some of us will be able to overthrow long standing, corrupt systems of doing things, due to simply not wanting to put up with crap. Others of us will just be narcissistic sociopaths. *shrug*

[SarahB]

146. I have a very popular, smart, strong willed 15 year old daughter

Who will tear people a new ass when it comes to debating their right wing talking points. There's hope.

[Jed Dilligan]

147. Compared to the greedy pricks I went to school with,

these kids are saints.

--JD (age 34)

[Dora]

150. Energy flows where attention goes.

In my opinion, the problem is not that "they get to be so damned sure of themselves." Self-confidence and personal assurance are not problems - they are desirable qualities we would all do well to develop in ourselves.

If you think that everyone in that particular generation has values that differ from yours - then that is what you will see. I'd like to suggest that you're looking at a generation that's entering adulthood and establishing a plan to meet their goals. For many of us, a primary goal is a large income; law and real estate have historically been a means to that end.

Law and real estate are not bad things. In theory, our nation is governed by laws written by the people for the people. What one chooses to do with the law, or in disregard to the law, is where the social/moral value lies. Real estate is about property and land, and people need places to live. Owning real estate is not a bad thing. What one does with the property and how one treats tenants is where the social/moral value lies.

Having a goal of being a lawyer and owning rental property is not a bad thing. It's how one behaves and treats others that determines one's character.

I've had some wonderful landlords, and I know good-hearted generous people who are lawyers. We can all work together, if we want to.

[DrunkenMaster]

156. what arrogance!

Youth learn what adults and the culture teach. If you want to assign blame, start with a mirror.

[Buzz Clik]

157. You insulted him, and now you wonder why he got defensive?

I'd have told you to fuck yourself, at that age, at age 18, and again today. Where the hell do you get off?

[Beer Snob-50]

158. I work with boys 12-18 with the boy scouts

and one of the kids is doing his eagle project right now by collecting suitcases for kids being moved through the DSS and another who is certifying vernal pools for the local conservation board. Two good projects I think.

[JVS]

207. Boy Scouts eh?

:popcorn:

[Dorian Gray]

161. Wait a moment?

What's the problem. He wants to be a lawyer, you asked him if he was okay with that? That insinuates that there is a problem with THAT. Not all lawyers are evil.

I don't get it.

As for teenagers... they have a history of always thinking that they were right. We did it, they do it now... they will always do it. Everyone in that age range thinks that they are smarter than everyone who came before them. It's hubris that is natural. I'd be more concerned if they didn't think it.

[SomeoneThere]

167. ok...

So Generation X gets criticized for being "slackers" and having no direction in life and now us Millennials are being criticized for being confident and being too optimistic? I wish you old farts would make up your mind on what makes teenagers evil.

[Cabcere]

193. Welcome to DU, SomeoneThere!

(from a fellow "Millennial") :hi:

[MrSlayer]

170. Well, lawyers and slum lords make a lot of cash.

If you have no problem with stepping on other people or flat out lying for a living you can make some nice money. "Nice guys finish last" isn't just a saying. Except in a minority of cases that's just the way it is. Dick Cheney isn't the most powerful man in the world for no reason.

[tlsmith1963]

173. I Met Someone in That Age Group

He lived in San Francisco for awhile, but came back here to San Diego because his father was ill. He's pretty liberal, & actually likes Boomers over his own generation. He thinks his peers are too materialistic & boring. He also plans to move to the UK. He seems pretty fed up with America.

[LWolf]

174. I work with 12-15 yo people. Lots of them.

Not quite as old as you asked for, but here are my observations, for what they're worth:

It's all about me. Put-downs are funny, and establish social status. The best use of personal energy and effort are to find creative ways to get by on as little mental energy as possible. Social status and social life are all. Thinking and serious subjects are to be avoided at all costs. Literacy is boring. Personal responsibility is off the table; do what you want to do, and if you get caught, blame others. Any confrontation over your own behavior or choices is to be deflected with conscious distraction; point the finger elsewhere. Whatever you can get away with is fair game, and part of the game is to figure out how to give up the least amount of time, effort, and thought when forced into a responsibility.

Of course, this doesn't describe all young people. There are plenty of thoughtful people, and people with a conscience, at the ages mentioned. Still, threads of the above theme permeate their, and our, culture and lives. Some of that theme is normal for adolescence. It's the exaggerated extremes that give concern. That, and the carrying of adolescent mindsets into adulthood, prolonging the self-centered mindset, and multiplying it in the general culture.

Edited to add: These are not young people from my family or my social circle. These are other people's children drawn from most levels of society. Those that attend public school. It's a broad slice.

[Breeze54]

177. You just described all teenagers of all generations

It's called immaturity! ;)

[slampoet]

178. You just described my high school experience in the 1980's....except..

Except the parents and the administrators were like that too.

[LWolf]

179. I think that's the problem.

It's not that adolescents are still immature; if they weren't immature, they'd be adults.

It's that adolescence seems, in our culture, to extend into adulthood. It's become a norm in our culture.

[BluePatriot]

182. see article

http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifestyle/2004-09-30-extended-adolescence_x.htm

As a 23 yr old I do think a lot of this prolonged adolescence is artificially imposed. I would LIKE to transition into adult things/benchmarks but much of it is unattainable, and, my older peers expect so little of me, especially in the workplace. (hey, Mom, and other women, thanks so much for giving me zero advice on how to deal with blatant daily sexism!) It's hard not to live up to low expectations set by an environment. Oh, people would like to think they have a strong enough character to overcome anything, but it plain isn't true.

[LWolf]

185. That was an interesting article.

Do you think that a prolonged adolescence, or a period of "youth hood" per the article, comes about because we delay allowing youth adult responsibilities and freedoms, or because youths delay them?

The article seems to suggest that a young person that doesn't want to get married and have children right away is somehow putting off the "self-sacrifice and responsibility" of adulthood.

I don't know about that. I think you can be a responsible adult without having kids. I've wondered if some of it comes from the disappearing middle class, the growing costs of living. When my mom graduated from highschool, she got a job and an apartment. Not a great job, and not a great apartment. In the 50s, though, a working class wage allowed a person, within limits, to be self-supporting. She worked for a few years, had me, and raised me as a single parent on a secretary's wages. She didn't go to college until I'd graduated from high school.

When I graduated from high school in the 70s, things were tighter, but we could still afford rent and have enough left to live on. I got married, had kids, and then started college. It took 12 years to finish, and I struggle to make ends meet since I became single.

When my sons graduated from high school, the only jobs out there were minimum wage jobs, and it took about 4 of them as roommates to be able to afford rent. Tuition was so high that they stopped after 2 years in community college, because they couldn't see being in debt for the rest of their adulthood to pay student loans. One of them makes more than me managing a retail outlet, and the other still works minimum wage jobs. Both share housing with roommates to make ends meet.

If young people struggle to make a living wage, and have to depend on their parents into adulthood, that may contribute to the syndrome. More responsibility and freedom leads to more "growing up;" remaining dependent may slow that process down.

What do you think?

[BluePatriot]

186. *Thinks*

"When my sons graduated from high school, the only jobs out there were minimum wage jobs, and it took about 4 of them as roommates to be able to afford rent. Tuition was so high that they stopped after 2 years in community college, because they couldn't see being in debt for the rest of their adulthood to pay student loans. One of them makes more than me managing a retail outlet, and the other still works minimum wage jobs. Both share housing with roommates to make ends meet."

"Remaining dependent may slow that process down."

*nods*

I think slower maturity is an unintended consequence of the above situation, which is now the (anecdotal) norm. Part of forming adult attitudes is being out on your own to sink or swim. I have observed how my time in college without a roommate managing a simple, shoddy apartment really boosted my life skills.

My husband is 25. Only one of his group of 12 friends has a job where he can live on his own. They do not know about credit or bills. No one, not even us, has a space to hold a large gathering or party without borrowing the house of a parent. They mainly spend what they can get on electronics and games. So, are they lazy? Who knows...

My thesis is that this delayed maturity issue first may be environmental as per above, then, when it becomes apparent one can never get out of the environment around them or change it, many just think "screw this" and put life off. Stagnant jobs = stagnant youngsters; there are maybe a select few people with the character traits, talent, work ethic PLUS connections to pull themselves out, but it's uncommon. (People who recognize that the "pull yourself up" attitude is usually BS are one of the reasons I hang around DU.) Canned advice like "welcome to the real world" doesn't help when life is tearing you to shreds like a cruel joke. Adults have perspective and memories of when things were better, different, when one COULD get started, even if it was a struggle, so they are generally unsympathetic and think tough love is best. Also unhelpful are the "self esteem" messages our generation was raised with -- this makes the reality of the job market and not being able to move forward towards any goals a double blow.

I never really understood how a bad life environment could affect people until landing out of college. To my credit, perhaps I am developing a bit more empathy due to this. I managed to get office work and hubby got work as a courier across town because my mom got us jobs based on her connections. My MOM. Ugh. Talk about nipping career development in the bud, lol. Working at the same small office with my mom sucks. "Let me fix your collar! Let's eat lunch!" Oh, and she got promoted to management, which has made things doubly weird, but anyway...I really WANTED to get a job on my own and prove myself, work myself up. Unfortunately unless you know someone's ass to kiss, you don't make it past retail.

/BA English 3.8 in 3.5 years, state college
//wanted to teach until encountering attitude of younger generation, irony not lost on me
///likes projects/contracts okay, considering grad school exam for hell of it

[LWolf]

187. You make a good point.

I "pulled myself up." How did that work out for me?

My absent father was a truck driver with an 8th grade education, 4 wives, and kids scattered all over the country. My mom was a high school graduate who learned to type and raised me as a single parent working as a secretary. We moved frequently, and I attended 10 schools K-12. We had no extended family. Nada.

I followed family tradition and got married and had babies as soon as I graduated. I married a man who ran away and joined the army instead of finishing high school. I met him when he was discharged, and he worked under the table construction jobs for low, inconsistent pay his whole life.

I took care of my babies and did in-home day care and housecleaning for others, and sometimes waitressed when I could find work, to help keep us fed; when my first child started kindergarten, I enrolled in the local community college. It took me 1o years to finish my AA, and by then first husband was long gone. I worked a full-time day job and waitressed 3-4 nights a week to support us.

When I remarried, I finished my BA. That marriage didn't last, either. I was always working or going to school, and just didn't have the time to play homemaker, cook, and social secretary. Just about the time I finally got a job, my 2nd marriage ended and I had to pay all those student loans. Nothing left for my own sons' education.

My oldest son tells me I should leave my profession behind now that I've paid my student loans, since the hours are draining, the pay is low, and I'm always too tired to have a life. But I can't. It's not like there is anyone else around to pay the bills, and my mom is reaching the point that she is going to need my care.

I did it. I was the first to go to college, the first to move into supposed white collar work (I'm a teacher), and I just didn't have enough "oomph" to carry my own kids that direction. They both quit after the AA. I did it, but it took my young adulthood, my entire social life, and left me perpetually worn out.

Maybe it's ok not to choose that route. There must be a middle way, where some independence and choice is available without sacrificing whole lives.

[BluePatriot]

188. Good for you!

I guess I shouldn't get defeatist about the whole process. You did something to be proud of. Congrats on your achievements. Really! :applause:

My family's all mechanics/electricians/skilled trades. I was the first to go to college and finish. I might have been pushed into a trade, if I were a son. Who knows. Sometimes I think I would like it. I am fond of fixing computers.

Anyway, I bet we will all settle down in our own way. It will just take longer. I am trying to focus on the small things that make me happy and not so much on a career. I realized the other day that I don't know how to pursue a hobby that's not graded or judged or critiqued or for "putting on my resume" or whatever, and I found it sad.

Anyway, the AA is nothing to scoff at, that's all my husband has, and he makes a smidge more than I do. (Real coup for driving a truck around)

[Eurobabe]

175. I have two, 23 & 25, so yes

At 21 I thought I knew everything and I was smarter than my parents.

[BoneDaddy]

176. I work in a high school

and kids are more sure of themselves. I remember feeling insecure about dancing and singing as a child yet alot of kids feel very free and confident to do things that would have got me strange looks as a kid. But there is still plenty of insecurity going around in high school.

[Jade Fox]

180. I think a lot of it is advertising....

which spends an enormous amount of time flattering young people in order to get a hold of their disposable income. You figure that these kids have seen thousands of commercials telling them how hip, smart, cool, etc. they are. Of course, they think they know everything.

The ad hominem attack comment sounds right out of Right-wing talk radio.

[Nikia]

183. There are some young men at the company that I work for

They are rural white guys who make around $10.00/hour for heavy, unskilled labor. They have bad attitudes and aren't very responsible. To them responsibility is for people who make more money than them. I don't think that they are really sure of themselves. I think that their bad attitudes are based on their uncertainty.
When I was in college about ten years ago, in the Clinton years, we were all very optimistic about getting good jobs and making middle class or higher incomes when we graduated. Many of us bought into the idea that working hard in school and graduating from a good college were a guarentee to this type of lifestyle. We were naive.
Some of us got good jobs. Many of us did not good jobs and reacted in a variety of ways. Some have turned out like the guys that work where I do, except that perhaps they are even worse because they are even angrier that a college education did not benefit them economically.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

184. I have very little tolerance for most people under age 25

Of course, there are exceptions but for the most part, I find teenagers and young adults to be the most annoying fucking people on the planet. I'm sorry, but that's just how it is. I know, I was one too.

My boyfriend's 20 year old daughter is a perfect example. She's a nice young woman and very bright but it's so tiresome to have her at family gatherings because she literally sucks the oxygen out of the room. 3 seconds cannot go by without her trying to make the conversation all about her or engaging in 'cute' antics to get attention. And she's one of the more tolerable ones! I cringe when I recall doing many of the same things. So it's probably a necessary developmental stage and most of us do grow out of it. ;)

I don't think the young people today are any different than those that came before them, temperamentally speaking. I do notice a little more of a sense of privilege and entitlement in them than I remember in my generation, though I may be mistaken. I'm often shocked at how teens today don't seem to have any household chores. My b/f hires a housekeeper, which blows my mind because where I came from that's what kids were for. His 17 year old son doesn't even have to clean his own room. His daughter, who lives in an apartment near her college campus, couldn't handle cleaning it so he sent his housekeeper over there to clean it for her! Seriously. I offered to go show her how to scrub and mop if she didn't know how. Apparently, these kids are not anomalies. In my middle-class community, nearly everyone has maid service and landscapers. Many kids don't have chores or responsibilities anymore and I don't think that's ultimately good for them.

[Breeze54]

196. Yakety yak Yakety yak!!

Artist: Coasters Lyrics
Song: Yakety Yak Lyrics

Take out the papers and the trash
Or you don't get no spendin' cash
If you don't scrub that kitchen floor
You ain't gonna rock and roll no more
Yakety yak (don't talk back)

Just finish cleanin' up your room
Let's see that dust fly with that broom
Get all that garbage out of sight
Or you don't go out Friday night
Yakety yak (don't talk back)

You just put on your coat and hat
And walk yourself to the laundromat
And when you finish doin' that
Bring in the dog and put out the cat
Yakety yak (don't talk back)

Don't you give me no dirty looks
Your father's hip; he knows what cooks
Just tell your hoodlum friend outside
You ain't got time to take a ride
Yakety yak (don't talk back)

:shrug:

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/standbyme/yaketyyak.htm

CIRCA 1955 !!! :rofl:

Seems not doing chores has been around for centuries! ;)

[BoneDaddy]

200. lol

how soon we forget

[knight_of_the_star]

189. I am one of those little snots

Maybe its because some of us haven't had our confidence broken down yet and still believe in that whole thing about limitless potential and all that.

That and I resent that you are applying a broad brush to an entire generation, I could easily say the same thing about the Baby Boomer Generation, the same guys who produced Bush and gave us Ray-gun in the White House for eight years.

[Darth_Kitten]

190. I don't understand the young'uns myself........

but they are a different breed.

Some of them are so nasty, they have so much given to them, yet are not really grateful for it.

Let a few years living in the real world knock the wind out of their sails. :)

You can't tell em anything now. :)

[yurbud]

191. you answered your own question: THAT kid is on his way to law school. For others

they are very different from the boomers.

Boomers were rebellious, but these kids are even less connected to the establishment than being rebellious because they were never connected to the institutions their parents or grandparents rebelled against.


Most kids have both parents at work or divorced parents, so the family is more an abstraction than reality, and our government policies have decreased service and opportunites for these kids.

They aren't as likely to protest but neither can they be shamed or browbeaten into submission. If they see no value in an institution or relationship, they will simply abandon it, just as their parents have largely abandoned them.

[Breeze54]

195. "just as their parents have largely abandoned them" ???

:wtf:

You believe to much of what you read.

[yurbud]

199. most parents provide food, shelter, and playstation and other involvement is pretty minimal

the stuff about the hyper-involved parent is largely boomer propaganda to assuage their guilty consciences for being worse parents than their Ozzie & Harriet parents they rebelled against.

[Breeze54]

201. I don't agree. I see and know many involved parents but

I'm sure there are many working to support their kids too, and so; don't have the
time, in hours, like they would like to have, to spend with their offspring.

It's more about quality than quantity anyway, until the kids become teens.
JMO.

[yurbud]

202. quality time is another boomer BS buzz word. Kids like bulk time even as teens.

it's nice to come home from school to a house with someone there, even if you don't have any business with the adult on duty.

You can't leave your kids at daycare 16 hours a day then think that a trip to Chucky Cheese and reading them a bedtime story makes you a good parent.

Thirty years ago we'd call the relative who did that an aunt or uncle visiting from out of town.

[Breeze54]

203. I'm of 'boomer' age and my kids were not at daycare 16 hrs a day!

You exaggerate!! Daycare's usually aren't open that long anyways!

And someone, usually me, was home when they got home, as teens.

But you know what? If I didn't work?? They didn't EAT!!!

Simple math! Get off your high and mighty soapbox!! :grr:

[yurbud]

204. you'll find out what your kids thought of your parenting when you get to rest home age

that's when they give about what they got.

[Breeze54]

208. My kids have already told me they are GRATEFUL

that I cared enough to take care of them and feed them and clothe
them and that I was a good role model for them to work hard!!!
And they say they love me. ;) I doubt anybody tells you that.

[yurbud]

209. actually they do. I think most boomers are doing what they have to economically

but they put lipstick on the pig by patting themselves on the back as super-involved super-parents, when that is actually just a small slice of upper middle class parents who do all the enrichment activities with their kids.

[JVS]

206. I pretty much agree. Although as a teen quantity time was not so big an issue.

As a kid it was nice having mom or grandma around. As a teen mom worked late, and it was my job to look after ailing grandma, but it didn't bug me.

[WindRavenX]

192. I'm 22

I really don't appreciate your generalizations one bit.

I'm graduating from a top school and going into science education.

[AZBlue]

197. I do at work. There are some good ones, but overwhelmingly they are lazy, rude and ignorant.

I think it's part our poor educational system, part our society's values, and the overall lack of parenting today.

(before anyone flames me with examples of excellent young people, please note that I started by saying "there are some good ones....")

[sandnsea]

205. They're an awesome generation

I look for really great things from them - unlike the horrific 80's Gen X Gangsta Rap Generation who have spawned nothing but destruction and cynicism and hatred. Matt and Trey, Exhibit A.

[Alexander]

210. Gray hair not treating you right?

Or did you already forget what you were like in your 20s?

There are just as many snotty assholes in their 40s and 50s.