Is Firing Teachers the Answer?

[LWolf]

By Paul Kelleher

But the Obama-Central Falls approach confuses the whole with the part. In my three decades of school administration, I never saw a school where every teacher was incompetent. Firing an entire teaching staff cuts out the wheat along with the chaff. It instantly eliminates decades of teaching skill and experience, some of which may certainly not have been good, but much of which probably was. As all those years of valuable experience and know-how walk out the door, who is going to fill the void? We’d like to think that bright, young college graduates, perhaps on the Teach For America model, can step in and do a better job. But the mixed results from that program suggest that the skills and experiences that lead to success in teaching often extend far beyond the capacities of even the brightest and most promising 22-year-old.

A second problem with a wholesale-firing policy is that it reinforces a narrow and shortsighted view of accountability. When a school fails, the education system, the parents, and the community must share blame. Accountability cannot be laid only at the door of teachers. States and districts have to provide the resources—human capital as well as money—to enable success. Communities have to support the work of schools with programs that enable students to be school-ready. Parents have to set clear expectations and consistently provide the support kids need to be motivated and successful. In my public school career, I never saw a student in any school—from advantaged suburban to disadvantaged urban—achieve outstanding success in academics, sports, or the arts who did not have a parent or some significant adult right behind him or her.

What’s the answer then? We should pay attention to what a quarter-century of research on successful school change has taught us. Children’s learning will improve if a teacher does something different and better in the classroom. I rarely met a teacher who was intentionally doing a bad job. As my understanding evolved, I realized that the issue was less teachers’ willingness than their ability to meet the daunting challenges they faced. So my strategy also evolved: from just clearing out the deadwood, to developing the skills and capacities of the vast majority of teachers who wanted to do a good job but needed help.

More:

http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2010/03/25/27kelleher.h29.html?tkn=SVXFkaBqnJZSUvsZe4DUgQZHOZpZbOmkL1qA&cmp=clp-edweek


I appreciate the final paragraphs, where the author notes the sustained support necessary to enact real change.

[yurbud]

1. it reminds me of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS when pharoah told the Israelites to make bricks without straw

then punished them for making crappy bricks.

We cut school budgets, forcing ever increasing class sizes, ignore teachers and non-corporate researchers ideas about how to fix education, while loading kids down with CONSTANT testing that only helps the testing companies.

One or two tests a year is accountability. Every two months as my wife an elementary school teacher says happens is either harassment of public schools or corporate welfare for testing companies.

[CrispyQ]

2. I am so out of touch with schools since I don't have children.

When I was a kid, we had the dreaded 'achievement tests' which were administered something like once every three or four years. I think we had them in 5th, 8th & 11th grades. The tests took two days & every student hated them with passion. They were day long tests. By mid-afternoon you were brain-drained & didn't even care how you did. I got sent to the principals office one year when I filled in all the "B" ovals & turned my exam in 5 minutes after it started.

Are the tests today similar - day long tests that go on for more than one day? That is not teaching students anything but hatred of school & 'learning.'

An oldie but goodie:

[EFerrari]

3. It's both. And even beyond that, schools need more community support, not less.

When you fire a school full of professionals, you are DESTROYING all the relationships that make community possible.

[LWolf]

9. Thank you for recognizing that. nt

[yurbud]

15. the mass firing is really about union busting. Even if the replacements are still in the union...

they don't know which way is up for a while and can't effectively fight for themselves.

[EFerrari]

57. Of course it's union busting.

Argh!

[LWolf]

8. We test 3 times a year

but only have 147 school days due to budget cuts. You can guess how that turns out.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. We spend more weeks testing than teaching

We have the actual test coming up in April. That takes a month. Then we have to practice for the test. Three times a year. Then we have to assess reading levels. Twice a quarter. And finally we have to take a predictor test so we know how the kids will perform on the real test. That's 3 weeks.

[LWolf]

46. We take the real test 3 times a year, to show growth.

We take it online, which means nobody gets to use the lab for anything but testing all year. As soon as most are done with reading, our SPED kids test with their SPED teachers, then we start math, and by then it's xmas, and when we get back it's time for the 2nd round...

[DrDan]

4. A thoughtful analysis

The Air Force had some missile-accountability problems at a particular Air Base couple years ago. Would Obama support "firing" each airman at that airbase?

Of course not.

Why are teachers different?

They need to think through this and enlist true educators to help.

[FarCenter]

5. Every organization needs to fire about 5% of its employees each year

About that many need to be fired, either because they are new employees who are not working out, or they are employees who's performance has deteriorated. The exact number varies depending on whether the organization is growing and on the makeup of the work force.

[tonysam]

11. That is too ridiculous to comment.

You don't know what you're even talking about. You are too invested in Obama and Duncan to see how bad they are for public education.

Public education is NOT a business--got that?

[LWolf]

14. That's not the way teaching works.

New teachers need time and mentoring to develop their skills. Teachers burnt out from the constant over-crowding, under-staffing, and lack of support can be re-energized with improvements to working conditions.

There are a few who need to find other occupations, but those don't amount to "5% every year."

[FarCenter]

24. It should be the way teaching works

After 3 to 5 years, it should be clear whether a newly hired teacher is developing well or should be encouraged to seek another position or profession.

Besides on-the-job factors, there are many other reasons why the performance of employees deteriorates over time. These include alcoholism, drugs, bad marriages, problems with children, problems with parents, criminal activity, chronic illnesses, and various psychological and mental conditions. Some of these can be dealt with by personnel policies and counseling, but others cannot.

I wouldn't want an alcoholic teacher teaching kids any more than I would want an alcoholic doctor treating me.

[LWolf]

31. I invite you to get some hands-on experience.

If you are qualified to do so, spend 3 to 5 years doing the job. Then talk to me again.

If you are not qualified to do so, please don't think you are qualified to judge. Why you would assume that alcoholism is a big problem, or an unaddressed problem, in public education is beyond me.

Teachers, like the rest of the population, DO have personal issues that sometimes interfere with job performance. There ARE protocols in place to address those, and teachers ARE removed for those reasons. It isn't made public, though. No firing squad, no arena full of lions to slake the public's blood lust.

I've known some teachers in the 27 years I've worked in public education whose contracts were not renewed for some of those reasons. Two of them were removed and fired in the middle of the school year. One of those two was a union president. It can be done, it has been done, it IS done.

Firing to meet a certain percentage of required turnover, rather than for cause, is ludicrous.

[tonysam]

33. Let's be honest here and say districts often invent "firing for cause."

That's because administrative law is heavily in their favor, and teachers are more often than not too poor and too powerless to appeal rigged decisions by hearing officers.

[LWolf]

35. It happens.

Not according to the general public, or politicians, or media talking heads. The picture they present is skewed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. Whoa. Hung up on alcoholics?

LOL

[smalll]

17. I can't believe I'm seeing this on DU --

Wasn't that the Jack Welch plan?

More importantly, do we really want a society in which the workplace becomes a never-ending Stalinist fear and purge environment? Where it's always 1937? How can an organization perform effectively with that kind of morale-killing strategy? And won't employees be constantly driven to demonize and scapegoat their fellow-employees?

[tonysam]

22. Jack Welch is up to his eyeball in this scheme.

The same crooks and billionaires who created the mess with the economy want to destroy one of the last vestiges of democracy.

[donco6]

51. That's RIGHT OUT of the Jack Welch playbook. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

36. Kids are worth excellence.

Some people don't have what it takes to be a teacher. 5% seems conservative.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/01/what-makes-a-great-teacher/7841/2/?

[teacher gal]

48. K & R n/t

[donco6]

50. That's assinine.

It's one thing to statistically see that 5% GET fired from year to year, and quite another to set a goal of firing 5% each year. We spend $6,000 per year training each teacher - we just get to watch that walk out the door? Dumb.

[Fire1]

6. I think the vast majority of teachers are competent and most

capable of developing effective pedagogy. If we want to 'help,' then the focus should be on the declining value of education in the impoverished communities. Mr. Kelleher's strategy has not evolved in effectiveness.

[LWolf]

20. True.

I could take my students a lot further if I could convince them that intellect has value.

I teach in a conservative, rural area. Parents don't want their kids taught to question anything. Families are semi-literate. When learning and intellectual endeavors are not valued in the community, we're swimming upstream. Especially when families are conditioned to suspect teachers, and to be confrontational with teachers and schools in general.

I'm lucky that I have a generally good relationship with the families that I serve, but we take small steps. I can convince them that reading and grammar and spelling and writing are necessary evils; I've yet to convince the majority that learning is actually something to do because it's satisfying, rather than because it's a chore.

[Fire1]

21. Not just 'intrinsic' value but economic, as well. n/t

[dixiegrrrrl]

7. It IS the answer

if the question is
How do we bust unions and impose dumbing down on public education while creating "charter"
schools for the elite families? And get public funds to pay for the elite schools.

[LWolf]

10. EXACTLY. nt

[Hippo_Tron]

12. The elite families already send their kids to private school

[rucky]

39. but not for free.

and since the voucher scam hasn't worked out for them...

[Hippo_Tron]

62. I would be pleasantly surprised if wealthy families started sending their kids to charter schools

Because that means that charter schools would include a wider slice of the socioeconomic spectrum. Plus if the school needs additional funds for something, you have a base of parents who can donate money to the school and often will if it is something that will benefit their own kids. But more than likely this is going to be a three tiered system. People with means send their kids to private school. Kids from families who don't have the money but perform well will go to charter schools. Public schools will have all of the kids who don't do well in school and don't come from families with money.

[Catshrink]

65. And public school will be a dumping ground for special education students

because charters and private schools don't have to accept them.

[Hippo_Tron]

66. No doubt about that

[yurbud]

16. vouchers didn't fly, so they came up with something worse.

[stray cat]

13. like anything - reward competence and not laziness or incompetence

[madfloridian]

18. I gave this rec #5 earlier. Now it is down to 2???

That's sad.

[LWolf]

19. It is.

:(

I suspect some of it may be because some DUers support any attacks on teachers; others are just because it was I who posted it.
There are plenty who don't like my opposition to bad policy when it comes from Democrats.

Or, so they tell me, lol.

[Nikki Stone1]

26. No, it's propaganda at work.

And a complete lack of understanding. Remember, if the Obama administration is ok with trashing teachers and firing them, then it must be ok. :dunce:

[DailyGrind51]

23. We just raised the retirement age in Illinois, but teachers are complaining about being "burned out"

Having occupied both worlds, I say, "Welcome to the club!" Everyone gets exhausted after being in a demanding career for a number of years, yet teachers enjoy tenure and benefit packages guaranteed by the taxpayer. Keep effective teachers!

[Nikki Stone1]

25. Not everyone works in a demanding career on which so many lives depend and which

is constantly being vilified in the media. Imagine trying to do a job where one action from you can change the entire life path a young person chooses, but in which higher level administration actively works to prevent you from doing just this AND in which the media floods the airwaves with how terrible your profession is. On a daily basis.

And further imagine that when you try to get better things for the students in your charge, you are ignored, completely. Imagine, too, that your buildings are in disrepair and that you have to go in and teach with holes in the ceiling. True story here: I knew a teacher who had 15 holes in her ceiling. 15! In SoCal, it doesn't rain most of the year, but during rainy season there are deluges. This poor teacher had buckets under every hole in the ceiling and trashbags covering books on shelves and student projects, so that they wouldn't get wet. She had been complaining for a solid year: to the principle (who ignored her); to the administration (who ignored); to the parents (who refused to get involved because they were afraid of calling attention to their legal status in this country). Eventually, she filed a grievance with the union on HER OWN behalf, citing health issues like mold, mildew and possible asbestos in the ceiling. I don't know what ended up happening, but she was in that working situation for over a year and a half. OSHA rules were being broken left and right, and NO ONE stepped in to help.

THAT Is what a being a teacher is like and THAT is why they get so burned out.

When you work as an accountant or sales rep in a major company, you usually don't have 15 holes in the ceiling. The computers would get wet.

[tonysam]

27. They can easily fire tenured teachers by rigging the hearings and manufacturing a "case."

I've been there, and I KNOW.

[LWolf]

28. The burnout comes from a number of factors:

1. Over-scheduling. Our days are scheduled to the minute, and there is NEVER enough time to get everything done.

2. The hours ARE exhausting; more exhausting than an office job or public service job. Having worked all of those, I feel qualified to say so. Managing large groups of other people's children, trying to be well-prepared so that they can be served well, trying to keep up with the paperwork so that they get prompt and valuable feedback, trying to keep up with all of the parents who need your time, all of the meetings assigned by your admins, and all of the extra paperwork required by your district, while remaining fresh, "on" and fully present for your students...give it a couple of years before you judge. I make a fixed salary no matter how long it takes me to get the job done. Ten hours a day are the norm, and that includes working through my 30 minute lunch and not taking any break before or after school longer than it takes to run to the bathroom and back. This year, with a longer school day (school doesn't get out until 4:15) I've been working 11-12 hours every day, not counting what I take home on weekends.

3. Add to that the budget cuts and the lack of resources paired with the constant demands to do MORE with less, to do BETTER with less, and yes...it's exhausting.

4. Not to mention the morale-busting attacks on public education from everyone who can't do the job themselves and trying to do the best for students while facing new, destructive political policies every time you turn around.

Yes, burnout is a problem. Improved working conditions would turn that around.

It takes a high amount of energy to keep large classrooms full of people focused and moving forward positively. I expect to have to work until I'm 70, or until I die, considering my financial situation at the age of almost 50. Happily, I AM an effective teacher, at least as long as I can keep up the long hours and days. I don't know how well I'll be doing that in another 20 years.

Tenure does not exist to make things easy, or as a "special privilege." It's a protection against political manipulation, and, by the tone of many even here at DU, obviously needed.

[tonysam]

29. Add lack of support and workplace abuse by principals

which in the end can cost teachers their careers, as principals are rarely held accountable for their actions. There is NO equivalent at ALL in private sector work, and I've done both.

One person can literally destroy your livelihood and all of the years of preparation for this livelihood, your retirement, your health benefits, and even cost you your sanity.

[LWolf]

34. Which is EXACTLY why tenure is important. nt

[tonysam]

38. It is only that it prevents principals from acting on their worst impulses

thus preventing more lawsuits against school districts. But that doesn't mean false allegations and ruining teachers' reputations don't happen. They do, and quite often.

People just don't hear about them because the hearing process is shrouded in secrecy.

[LWolf]

41. Yes, they do. I know of a couple of instances of just that. nt

[donco6]

53. I've worked in private business and schools.

Yes, the demands are high in both. But there's something about working with kids all day . . . they are like little black holes of emotional need, and they suck it right out of you. It's really very hard.

[scarletwoman]

30. Only if the question is "How do you destroy the Teachers Union?" nt

[LWolf]

37. Bingo. nt

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

32. No

it's a simple answer to a complex problem.

[Pisces]

40. Firing teachers that are sitting in a building collecting checks because they are suspende

from working due to molestation allegations should be fired. There are thousands of these teachers that are not allowed to work, but are part of the union and collecting checks for doing nothing.
I know the superintendant of one of the CA. districts and there are several hundred teachers that go to a building everyday to check in and do nothing. They can not fire these teachers. THis does not
make sense what so ever.

[tonysam]

42. Neither does your post. The vast majority of shitcanned teachers

haven't done anything wrong to kids but are merely innocent victims of principal abuse. It's rampant, trust me on this one.

Oh, by the way, I wasn't paid at all when I was tossed out wrongfully by a piece of shit principal. That's because the district wanted to starve me into settling; I am damned glad I didn't.

"I know the superintendent." Enough said. They lie their asses off all the time. So do principals. So do HR "executives." So do district lawyers, who pull tactics that would get them disbarred in the outside world. So do other teachers, who are conned into lying against a targeted teacher.

These are the great "role models" of our youth. These dirtbags collect handsome salaries (not the teachers) and pull tactics that others would go to jail for. It's also virtually impossible to get rid of them, unlike teachers.

The mafia is more honorable than school district administrators.

[donco6]

54. Thousands? Not around here there aren't.

I know NYC has a rubber room thing, and maybe LA can afford it . . . ? But I've never heard of it anywhere around here.

[LWolf]

56. "Rubber Rooms" are certainly a disaster.

They are also not just for teachers who are suspended due to "molestation allegations." The suspensions happen for a wide variety of reasons. Some are without cause. Which is why it takes so long to process them.

Of course, there is disagreement about why it takes so long to process them. Those who want to fire people blame unions. Unions blame administration. Meanwhile, teachers show up every day as directed. There is a documentary about rubber rooms in NY currently in the works; here's an article, with some interesting <snips>:

DOE officials have blamed the backlog in disciplinary hearings on onerous provisions in the teachers contract and state law that protect teachers who deserve to be fired. Members of the teachers union have said the DOE intentionally drags out cases to force highly paid educators into retirement.

I've seen all kinds of maneuvers to force teachers with more seniority and a higher salary into retirement. It doesn't have to include rubber rooms; it happens all the time. In my district, it happened to a colleague last year, who was RIFFED on a technicality despite 25 years in the district, and then offered "early retirement" to avoid unemployment.

One woman interviewed describes the scene in her room as a "horrible waste."

"There are some people who say, 'You're so lucky. You're sitting, doing nothing and you're getting your salary.' Don't fool yourself. There isn't one person in that room that thinks they are lucky," she says.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bored_of_ed_in_fPRMkAqNVBQ4hWAs1XYICM/1#ixzz0jO9Cjq5r

The bottom line, though, is that teachers can, and are, fired without resorting to "rubber rooms." It happens in California; I know, because I taught there. I saw it happen. There are procedures in place, and if the district follows due process, it works just fine. Due process is there to prevent firings without cause, or firings based on unproved allegations.


Which is as it should be.

[G_j]

43. Of course not!

give them the help they need, hire more teachers and put a whole lot more money into education.

[LWolf]

60. Great ideas. Thanks, friend. nt

[Solly Mack]

47. K&R

[tom_paine]

49. It is if you want to have fewer of the "peasants" educated so they can't understand enough to

make a complaint.

It a BushoCorporate strategy that fits hand in glove with the rest of the Bushifcation program for all levels and aspects of our society.

And it is WORKING. Even Obama's election has done little to deflect or slow down Bushification, particularly in those areas in which it has transformed our nation most and continues to do so.

[LWolf]

59. It is working,

and it is SPEEDING UP under Obama, because he supports the efforts.

[izzybeans]

52. I agree with that it reinforces a narrow view of accountability.

A secondary effect of this whole thing has been to turn educators against one another in my area. But I suppose its only natural that Chicago be polarized re: Duncan. This story just escalated that sentiment.

People on both sides have the same goals (and even the same means of attaining them) but educators are working in an environment of professional uncertainty, which makes the trust required to have honest and open debates on pressing issues like school improvement, instructional planning, performance evaluation, etc. nearly impossible. I've gotten into spats here on this issue with people I agree nearly 100% with. However, when the devil comes out in the details of policy debates, boom...

[ibegurpard]

55. It is if you want to promote charter schools

This administration is all over privatization of public education

[LWolf]

63. It's a devastating betrayal, imo.

Not that it's a surprise; Obama campaigned on this agenda for public education. But that the voters, and the rest of the Democrats would support it...

Devastating.

[branders seine]

58. schools are underfunded.

teachers are underpaid.
classes are too big.
standardized teaching-to-a-test is crap.
schools are afraid to fail students who don't deserve to pass.
rapublicans have spent most of this century trying to kill public education.
too many students are ill-nourished electronics addicts, not ready to learn.
next to rapublicans, uninvolved parents are more to blame than anyone.

[walldude]

64. +1... LAst night on Bill MAhr they had the head of the teachers

union on and they were asking her about "bad teachers". All she could say was "we don't like bad teachers either" and I'm sitting there yelling at the TV "Maybe if there were 15 or 20 kids in a class instead of 30-40 they might learn something...

My personal analogy for teachers has been "they are given a race car with no wheels and no engine and then berated when they don't win the Daytona 500." It's stupidity at it's best.

[Karmadillo]

61. Moronic school administrators and corporate puppet politicians think it's a brilliant answer.

nt