High school dropouts: What minimum standards should they be entitled to?

[apples and oranges]

Should a student who didn't take high school seriously and eventually dropped out be entitled to the same pay and benefits as students who graduated and perhaps went on to college? I often wonder about that when we debate issues like minimum wage, healthcare, and jobs.

[DesertFlower]

1. i would think they'd have a hard time

getting a decent job.

[Posteritatis]

2. HS and college graduates aren't "entitled" to anything; dropouts are no different. (nt)

[tammywammy]

10. +1 n/t

[Burma Jones]

13. +2

[hayu_lol]

3. What people did or did not do in high school...

has no bearing on what they are capable of doing in a job and what they should be paid for that job.

You wouldn't hire a drop out as an engineer or doctor. Plenty of jobs out there that take little intelligence but lots of effort.

[Hello_Kitty]

4. What??

I am so tired of people making excuses to pay certain people less for the same work.

Young people? They can make less because they live with their parents, plus need entry level experience.

Immigrants? They don't mind working for less because of their innate strong work ethic, and besides, sub-minimum wage here is a FORTUNE where they're from!

Women? Well, duh.

So now high school dropouts get to join the underclass of people who can be paid less because of some characteristic they all allegedly possess that makes it OK to pay them less.

[DJ13]

7. +1

These same people have wanted to eliminate minimum wage since it was passed.

[Deep13]

5. Legal standards like minimum wage, HC and nondiscrimination ...

...should be generous and apply to everyone.

[Xenotime]

34. Agreed. A government job should also be available.

[Deep13]

37. Well, depends what it is.

If it is a job that doesn't require much education, then sure, why not?

[951-Riverside]

6. People who didn't graduate should be flogged daily and forced to work for pennies a day

Hello, my name is Richard Hed and I'm a registered republican.

[DireStrike]

14. I have a slight quibble with that.

It's mostly sound logic. After all, high school students are renowned for their judgment. And every school in the country, as well as all circumstances applying to every student, and every set of parents (one male and one female, of course) are identical. Therefore, the only reasons to fail to graduate are laziness and stupidity, both of which are unforgiveable.

However, where do you get off suggesting that we pay these "people"? It is possible that such phenomenally lazy individuals as these will not return a value of greater than "pennies" a day from their labor. Additionally, they need to be fed and, in some areas of the country, kept at a certain temperature unnaturally. These costs will certainly not be offset if they are to receive some sort of wages, even if they are only given one glass of HFCS and peanut butter per day.

Further, what will they buy with these wages? I realize that in most cases they can be forced to spend all of "their" money on products made by the company they belong to. However, some of them may see a tv screen that is not showing Fox News one day and be enticed into thinking that maybe they should save some money, or choose to purchase different products. Any such decision they make can only be harmful to the company, the country, and of course the individuals themselves.

[Hello_Kitty]

23. LOL

That was very well done. :applause:

[apples and oranges]

18. My brother dropped out of high school

First, this isn't an anti-minimum wage post. I think there should be a minimum wage of about $7.00.

My brother dropped out. He doesn't have insurance right now and is constantly complaining about being unemployed. My response to him is always: you're a smart guy! Go back to school so you might have a fighting chance!

[laughingliberal]

30. I believe each situation is different.

My husband dropped out because there was not enough money to feed his family. He worked one full time job and 2 part times when the other kids his age were fucking around in school. Do I think less of him than those who were in school with him and graduated? Guess.

He went on to get his GED in the military at 25 and fought in Viet Nam. I think your fight with your brother is your fight with your brother. I don't go for painting with broad brushes.

[DesertFlower]

35. my granddaughter's half sister dropped

out in her senior year. she studied and got her GED. she's planning to go to college in the fall. she just got a job as a cashier at BJ's. i don't know if she'll be getting any benefits.

she's an intelligent young lady, but has a hard time with math.

[Deep13]

38. Drop-outs should be hired to do the flogging...

...to save money.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. The possible sources of minimum standards are:

1) The minimum wage;
2) Contracts negotiated by unions pertaining to a category of workers.

(Did I leave anything out?)

If for some reason item 2 above boost an "undeserving" person's pay above a "deserving" one's -- tough.

Why do you ask that?

Oh, and by the way, pay should be related to what a person is actually DOING, not to how many diplomas they have. It's OK to require a diploma for some specific jobs, though.

[laughingliberal]

33. +1000 nt

[Brickbat]

9. LMAO. They lose their rights because they didn't graduate from high school?

Why on earth would we want a state-imposed system on wages depending on level of education? Why lower minimum standards?

[tkmorris]

11. If they can get and keep a job, minimum wage.

If they aren't worth even that pittance, then I'd imagine they wouldn't be able to hold a job. Frankly I don't see a problem though; there are innumerable jobs that don't require ANY education past the basic communication skills that your average 4th grader possesses.

Why do you ask?

[Lyric]

12. Why do you assume that people who dropped out are people who didn't "take it seriously"?

I dropped out of high school because my Mom had a heart attack, and it was either drop out and get a job to support my younger siblings and Mom, or watch us all get split up and put into foster care. I tried attending night classes for a while, but since we didn't have a car, my only ride to work was someone who worked at night--therefore *I* had to work at night. And I was FAR from the only one in this situation, believe me; the factory was full of people who'd been in similar situations.

Good god, our punishment-fetish society is sick. Is it impossible for us to EVER give others the benefit of the doubt? We assume the worst about others, always, and then we go on to LEGISLATE based on those assholish assumptions. Jesus effing wept.

[apples and oranges]

16. I'm not talking about everyone, just the ones who goofed off in school

right before dropping out.

[cyberswede]

21. ...and you can tell the difference how? n/t

[rug]

15. I always make sure the plumber has a diploma.

[flvegan]

17. "Entitled?"

[jaksavage]

19. They should recieve extra help.

Cause they need it to become a more useful contributor to our society.

[Codeine]

20. Ahh, nothing screams "Entitlement" like a college kid.

The fact that I get paid decent money to revise and rewrite papers for a few people in advanced degree programs while not having a HS diploma myself speaks volumes about the actual intellectual rigor of the typical college experience.

Hate to break it to you, but the fact that you played student for a few more years doesn't actually make you a more worthy human being, Sparky.

[Hello_Kitty]

22. Agree.

I dropped out of h.s. and eventually got my GED and a Bachelor's (from an institution most college snobs look down their noses on) and have never ceased to be amazed by how dumb a lot of college grads are. By dumb I mean "don't know basics about geography, civics, grammar, etc.". Some of these people graduated with advanced degrees from prestigious universities. In fairness, I've met some brilliant folks from these institutions as well. But, like you, I've concluded that success in college has more to do with one's ability to play student for a few years than actual mental acuity.

[Skidmore]

32. Absolutely. I've known full-fledged professors who

could not find their butts with both hands and a telescope. I've also known people who had not received educations but were astute business men and trades people. I've known many self-educated people who had better insight than any higher education could provide and common sense to go with it.

[blogslut]

24. Equal Pay for Equal Work

If the high school dropout is qualified for the job, they are entitled to the same pay as someone with a degree/diploma. Every adult American should have the right to full employment, access to proper health care and a salary that covers their needs. A fry cook works just as hard as the executive. No job is unimportant.

[Ysabel]

25. so let me get this straight...

what you really mean is that if i'm an idiot i should post dumb shit on the internet too...

- hahahaha...

[haele]

26. Goofing off at high school means nothing these days -

And dropping out of the current "one size fits all" schools does not mean that the student was goofing off. (That's a whole 'nother situation right there - most kids don't have to drop out if they just goof off, schools will figure out how to keep them in for funding purposes until they're at least 17...)

Because of the current social practice of using College as a "catch-up" to cover the basic learning, citizenship, and all-around actualization training that most halfway decent high schools used to provide students before everything became test-based and "measurable", teenagers can remain children much longer than they did before - and if they're not expected to actually live like an adult until they're 25 or so, they're not going to "grow up" like their parents did as juniors and seniors in High School.
Little James or Emma can drop out at 16/17, then go back to college (once they get tired of living with Mom and Dad, or can't casually sponge off their friends anymore)with just a GED - which they can use the first year in jr. college to get or actually learn a trade free of charge if they can get to Job Corps by the time they're 21.
As it is, Critical thinking outside of a personal interest - otherwise known as being "well rounded" is not a priority in most High Schools and Colleges anymore - looking at the quality of many of the recent college graduates I've seen. They're good at what they've gone to school for, but pretty much suck at everything else.

As a society, for the past twenty years, we've been raising working and middle class children to be consumers and mimics rather than adult citizens; consumers have no value other than to consume and mimics have no understanding or frame of reference to live life by other than that which they're trying to mimic.

Haele

[galileoreloaded]

27. Well, a kid to drops out and goes right to work at Taco Bell is light years ahead of the PhD in

the Humanities, English, Social Work, or any myriad other worthless career paths that saddle the recipient with crushing and non-dischargable debt, no real opportunity to make more than say $30K a year, and end up working at Taco Bell anyway (for the dropout who has arguably a higher net worth, and spent 8 years working their way up to manager, making $45K per year, already way ahead in the life curve that exists for 80% of Americas workers).

The 50's called, and they want their societal organizational structures back.

See, I can make sweeping statements about the value of humans and their activities too.

[laughingliberal]

28. Minimum wage is the law and it needs to stay the law. nt

[Odin2005]

29. A living wage, like everyone else.

[surrealAmerican]

41. + 1

A living wage is not some sort of luxury to be reserved for the well educated. It's amount a frugal person can live on.

[harun]

31. Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, freedom of religion, all the

other freedoms everyone else gets.

Of course you need to define what you mean by minimum standards. By your comments it looks like you mean pay, healthcare and job.

I don't feel health care should be tied to employment. Sure maybe a few frills can be but not the basic right and service.

So I think you are thinking of them as a group, when most people, (Earth, not U.S.A) don't.

[CBGLuthier]

36. Take school seriously? yeah, that's the only real issue.

I quit HS in 10th grade. By the time I got my GED at 18 I also was graduating from a two year technical school. Over the years I learned programming and made plenty of money because I was smart not because some fucking high school says I am worth it.

I took high school quite seriously. I found it to be bullshit and a waste of my time. I have met so many stupid ignorant people with diplomas over the last 30 years that I have never regretted this move.

All the college in the world will not give a person good work ethics or some how increase their worth.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. They shouldn't be allowed to drop out in the first place

It's an archaic policy that no longer serves anyone's best interests. Our children should be required to stay in school until they have completed the 12th grade.

[walldude]

40. LMFAO... have you ever lived in the real world?

I am a high school dropout. I also have an IQ above 140. I never went to college, I work freelance and can make 6 figures in a good year. School does not mean smart. It also does not mean "the best applicant".

Why did I drop out? I wasn't learning anything useful. While I don't advise my career path for anyone I certainly do better than many people I know who went to college. People should be judged on their merits.

Plus had I gone to college I'd probably be sitting in some crappy office or cubical right now.