If we control the House AND the Senate and yet cannot even get a TIMETABLE, then...

[TnDem]

What good is even holding the House and Senate? I mean, seriously...It looks like the Presidency is FAR more important than either one of these groups of clowns.

It seems like we got all excited about the possibilities of gaining both houses of Congress, but in reality, they have acted exactly the same as the pugs.....Translation...No friggin difference.

I mean, this was just a simple timetable for withdrawal for shit's sake...It's not like it was something draconian.

Opinions?

[Zodiak]

1. we've got the dryest powder in history n/t

[BOSSHOG]

2. Relative to a two-thirds vote

we don't control the house or the senate but we do control the procedural stuff. Maybe more Americans will think like you and really put the dems in "control."

[BurtWorm]

3. What Bosshog said.

:patriot:

[Grandrose]

10. Absolutely right.

I guess sometimes you take one step forward and two back. The ball is in their court now!!!:)

[endarkenment]

4. We need 60 votes in the senate to move legislation

And we need 2/3 in both houses to override vetos. Winning a majority in both houses is far better than not having a majority in either house, but it is not a panacea either. Yes the executive is far stronger than Congress.

The key here is that we have to be willing to say no to Bush. He cannot run his war without funds. He knowa this. The blustering now is an attempt to bluff congress into giving up their oversight powers by claiming that they are 'not supporting the troops' and 'inteferring' by exercising those constitutional powers of oversight. It is a bluff. Dumbfuck needs the money.

[librechik]

12. The executive is only strong now because we are afraid to challenge him

In some perceptions, every time we challenge and he vetoes we looik like losers. This is wrongheaded. The better analogy is the way you challenge corpoorate wrongdoing: Complain, hector, demonstrae, boycott over and over until we wear down their resistance and the public is (more) with us. We already have the public; there are untold issue hidden in the works of Congress which are frustratng us at this point.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

5. The last 6 years has pushed the balance way, way in favor of the presidency. The pendulum now

has an opportunity to swing back.

It's not close to a veto-proof majority. The main importance of the Dem majorities right now is that the REPUBLICANS don't keep getting to ram the Bush agenda down the throat of America unopposed, which is pretty important, Iraq timetable nonwithstanding.

It also gives America an opportunity to consider sweeping in a lot more Dems in 08 unless they want more and more Iraq, which is what Republicans have clearly signalled they're going to give them unless they're stopped.

[Marrah_G]

6. There are plenty of good things happening because we have control of the congress

First of all there are senate hearing going on that NEVER would have happened. Also it gives us control of what goes up for a vote. We do not have enough votes for an over-ride of a veto. This is not Pelosi or Ried's fault for goodness sake. Theya re working with what they have.

"A simple timetable" WAS voted for. We do not have enough Democrats to over-rise the Veto. We won't ever have those votes until the Republicans STOP their absolute loyalty to the white house.

[uppityperson]

7. The control we have now is being able to stop things from happening.

The control is not to make things happen but to stop things from getting pushed through, to be able to stop giving the dictator exactly what he wants, every single time. More Dems are need in Congress to get things done in a positive manner.

And yes, this was something major. And yes, being able to put the stops to the dictator is also major.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. You wouldn't want to hear my opinion on your opening comments. But you need to

learn that we do not have a veto-proof majority in either house. It would take 66% of the House, so that's 435 x .66 = 287 Democrats to do that. It would take 66 Senate Democrats. We ain't there yet.

Edit to add: Historically, less than 10% of all vetoed bills have been overridden by Congress

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. The Executive branch has too much power - surrendered to it by congress.

IMO, the executive branch is archaic and should be done away with and replaced with a parliamentary system with "votes of confidence" used to remove the PM.

[trashcanistanista]

11. What we have now is

The power of the purse. Dems could withhold the funding and there is not a damn thing * could do about it - can't veto funding legislation. This is the only option left. They need to stand up and do this now. End the occupation. It can happen.

[AZBlue]

13. We don't control either.

To control them we'd have to have a much larger majority than we do. We're barely holding on right now. We need more Dems in both houses.