Some thoughts on the WBC...

[rasputin1952]

Over the last few days, there have been a few stories about Phelps and his little "church". Every once in a while, these people wind up in a news cycle, and I'm often surprised at the attention they get, but a few things are truly important about this group. First and foremost, they are a hate group, they live to hate, and use their standing as a "church" to push this hatred.

I just watched the video of the students at Gunn HS, and have to say I am impressed, not just with their solidarity, but the way in which they made their point through a demonstration of peace and tolerance. What a great bunch of kids.

The WBC showed up in a small city I lived in to protest the funeral of a fallen soldier a couple of years back. They were cordoned off, and while they were a distraction, they were not the disruption they had hoped to be. People tire of the hate, they see extremists like this as an anomaly, not anything close to what Americans, or Christians for that matter represent. Most people realize that the WBC is little more than a fringe element that has one of the worst possible "reasons" for claiming being Christian.

The recent overturn from an Appeals court in Snyder v WBC, showed me something I have long thought about concerning the WBC, they use their platform for more than just spewing hate, they use it as a conduit for cash as well. Over the years, Phelps, and his family, (of which several are lawyers), have used confrontation as a way to go through the legal system to fund their "church". Lawsuits are the way of life for these people. They use their status as a church to be exempt from taxation, (I have to wonder if the IRS will investigate this further, as their political activism should remove them from tax exempt status), then they use the legal system to gain even more. I also suspect that there is some "hidden" funding from one or more groups that see the WBC as something that is "worthwhile". It would be interesting to see if there is some funding going on, and just where this funding comes from. There are plenty of groups/individuals out there that would be happy to put cash into this group of lunatics. Exposing them would be a good way to cut at least some of that funding. If x,y,z were proven to give money to Phelps, I think that they would pay a high cost as far as society is concerned.

One of the questions that arises with the WBC is how to deal with them. The students and faculty at Gunn HS did well, and at the Memorial for Matthew Shepherd, several young people dressed as angels, walked up the Phelps group and then turned their backs to them in silence. Both of these were effective in showing that the communities involved were against the hate that the WBC purveys. After discussing the WBC w/my bother, we came up with a third way to deal with them though.

These people thrive on hate, one of the best ways to deal with them is to just go up to them at laugh at them. I realize this can be hard to do, considering what vile garbage they spew, but it is one of the best ways to confront them simply because there is nothing they can do to combat this type of confrontation. They come off looking like a joke and lose whatever perceived "power" they have. We have seen that when people/groups lose their perception of having power, they crumble. When one seeks violent confrontation and receives laughter for their effort, they feel threatened. All they can do is sulk away after getting angrier and looking even more foolish. I saw this done with a group of neo-nazi's once in NYC. When about a dozen people laughed at them, they simply did not know what to do; they had taken themselves so seriously, there was no place for them to go, except home after they were seen as a joke. (On a separate occasion in NYC, a friend of mine and I witnessed a violent confrontation, where some neo-nazi' called some Scots in kilts during a parade, "fagots". Listening to bagpipes moan on 5th Avenue after being dropped and seeing a swirling mass of brown shirts and kilts in a wild street fight is something I will remember for the rest of my life. Pretty surreal!)

My point is, there are many ways to deal with the WBC, but violence should never enter the equation. As much as one may feel the urge to "deal" with these people, the best ways have been shown to be community based showing that they will not be tolerated in the community; silent protest in face to face contact; laughter. While it is difficult at best to try and restrain oneself from doing something to these people, we are better than that. We cannot allow ourselves to go down the level these people have created. They are less than human in most people's eyes, we can destroy them with our show of tolerance and compassion...two of the many things they do not possess.

Your community may be the next one these people assault...the way your community deals with them can help to crush them under their own hubris.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. My theory on these characters:

They are grifters, pure and simple. They don't even believe their own "God hates fags" bullshit. They've merely come up with a gimmick that's guaranteed to offend pretty much everybody, and they are using it to make money from litigation. Standing around with "God Hates Fags" signs obviously will offend the GLBT community and most liberals. But, if you are a Phelps (and they are almost all lawyers, btw), go farther; be even more provocative: Demonstrate outside the funeral of a soldier or a police officer or some other person most people would consider heroic or honorable, holding signs suggesting that the person's death was deserved as God's punishment for America's toleration of gay people. Provoke the family and friends of the deceased as much as possible. Take advantage of your First Amendment right to be despicable asshole; push your free speech right to the edge. And make a bundle when your rights are "violated" when you are sued or assaulted.

Therefore, IMO, the *only* effective way of dealing with them is to ignore them completely. Their entire purpose is provocation; the worst thing that can happen to them, as far as they are concerned, is that nobody bothers with them. A peaceful counter-protest would make an appropriate statement, of course, but these dirtbags really don't care. All they want is to be hassled so they can sue. Ignore them. Pretend they aren't there. If they can't make any money from lawsuits eventually they'll dry up and blow away.

[KharmaTrain]

2. Spot On...

Other than their obscene protests, there's no there there to what Phelps "group" is about. They have no "outreach" like other anti-LGBT or choice or other right wing groups...a political arm or some kind of conveluted "program" that reaches beyond just making asses of themselves. They're in it for the publicity and whatever cash they can shakedown. My bets are if you offered Phelps a "donation" he'd be sure to stay away from your funeral.

The Catch-22 here, and Phelps knows it, is attempts to stiffle his first ammendment rights give his clowns publicity and gets a reaction. You can ignore him...as many have...but they pick their spots...showing up when emotions are the rawest. As long as they aren't violent, their rights to protest will be protected, but that doesn't mean there aren't other ways to get at Phelps. A good civil suit from an aggrieved family may just do the trick...take him to court and force him to spend money.

[rasputin1952]

3. I have often thought that just ignoring them would "make them go away"...

but history shows that ignoring hatred and ignorance does not work. Many people throughout time have ignored what they found offensive, and then, suddenly, even though all of the warning signs were there, they found themselves at a disadvantage. There are varying ways to confront these people, but but ignoring them completely, they will escalate their efforts, and in the long run, get even worse.

I think it is difficult to fight evil or ignorance by just letting them take their course. Ignorance and evil must be confronted by people who will stand up for what is right. To do otherwise is to allow the situations to persist.

Just my opinion, but I've been active against bigots my entire life, the more communities rise to the occasion, the less "power" these people have.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. I'm not suggesting that their message be ignored, as such,

and it's fine to have counter-protests to show that most people find them offensive. In the case of this particular group (actually, they aren't even a real organization; it's just a family), however, ignoring *them*, if not their message, will be the one thing that is most likely to defeat them. That's because their offensive statements are designed not to persuade others to hate and discriminate against gay people, but specifically to incite action against their "church" that they can parlay into money through the legal process. They know *exactly* where the limits of the First Amendment extend, and they provoke people into overstepping those limits by doing and saying very offensive things at events where people are most likely to react emotionally. They are unmitigated assholes, but they aren't stupid -- just deeply cynical. They *want* to be assaulted and/or sued. That's how they support themselves.

Therefore, while I absolutely agree that evil, hateful messages should not go unchallenged, I contend that the best way to deal specifically with the "members" of this fake "church" is to ignore *them.* That's the one thing they don't want.