Roeder Sentencing -- live on Tru TV

[Hepburn]

Starting now...will up date as I hear more. Judge speaking to the courtroom. Just general stuff about conduct, etc.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Watching. Thanks.

Can't wait to hear the character witnesses. :puke:

[Hepburn]

4. I am hoping for the "hard" 50 for him...

...I am sure he will show less than -0- remorse if he speaks to the court.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. I am hoping they will file federal charges against him

[Hepburn]

9. From what I have seen -- and I am thinking of the Gwaltney case from San Bernardino County...

...only if the state court could not get a conviction will the feds step in. Gwaltney was tried twice for murder and the jury hung each time. Then the feddies went after him. He is the CHP guy who was doing P*SSY stops out by Barstow and ended up strangling one of the ladies who was getting out of a ticket by doing him.

[Hepburn]

23. Back live...former atty still speaking...

...talking about lack of remorse and Roeder bragging about the murder of Tiller.

[jmowreader]

45. Remorse is for other people

This man Saved The Unborn Babies. Obviously saving the unborn babies is more important than things like "following the law."

If it was up to me I'd put a TV set and a DVD player across the hall from Roeder's cell and play "how to perform an abortion" training tapes for him 24/7 for his entire sentence.

[Hepburn]

55. Typical RW nut...

...the unborn are elevated to sainthood and living persons and/or child are worth shit.

[Hepburn]

2. Judge reading charges of which Roeder convicted...

...remember that in addition to killing Dr. Tiller, there are convictions on the assault with a deadly weapon against others at church.

DA asking for "hard" 50 -- means he must do 25 befroe even considered for parole.

[Subdivisions]

12. Are you sure about the 25 years before parole? I think it means

50 years before parole eligibility. That's also what the chyron on Tru is saying.

Ed.: sp.

[Hepburn]

15. Yes, you stated it correctly...

...what I said is misleading. It is the wait to even be eligible.

Thanks! :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Hearing motion for new trial and acquittal.

[Hepburn]

5. Preliminary stuff...

...defense attys are making their record for any appeal.

So it seems to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Motion for new trial denied

[Hepburn]

8. To be expected...

...but IMO still part of making a record for any appeal.

[Hepburn]

10. For the cube rats....nothing happening....

...judge just setting out the law on the factors, what has been filed, etc.

Now coming up on victim impact statements.

[Hepburn]

11. Tiller's former atty -- who defended him -- speaking as a friend on impact statement.

He is also speaking for family -- wife, children and spouses of children.

[Hepburn]

13. Domestic terrorist...hate crime -- phrases used by former atty of Tiller.

Saying how Tiller was devoted to his family. Talking about losses to family members. Wife: Her best friend for 45 years.

[Hepburn]

14. Describing the huge amount of involvement in the lives of his children.

Making Tiller a person and not just "the abortion doctor."

Good job, IMO.

[hlthe2b]

17. I'm not even watching, yet tearing up....

This whole situation is just beyond horrendous, tragedy. That murderer will never show remorse and his defenders will not change their views. Death of a wonderful man for naught.

[Hepburn]

20. The atty was talking about phone calls from women since Tiller's death...

...asking for help and where to go now.

:cry:

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. That made me cry

[Hepburn]

16. Former Atty still speaking and doing a wonderful job IMO.

"Gave his life for the rights of women."

:cry:

[hlthe2b]

18. Thanks so much for the coverage, Hepburn... much appreciated

[Hepburn]

21. No problem...

...you are welcome and I know that many are interested and cannot listen live.

BTW: The STUPID commercial is still on TRU...:mad:

Will get back to live commentary when the blasted thing is over!

[Hepburn]

19. What the Hell???????

Suddenly TRU switched to something else -- I think it is a commercial...but this is bullshit.

The atty had me in tears.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. It's some other trial

Now a commercial.

[Hepburn]

24. I think they made a mistake...

...went to commercial and switched back??? :shrug:

[backscatter712]

25. Hope the judge throws the book at him.

The justice system needs to utterly break Roeder.

[Hepburn]

27. Yeah...

...send a message -- not light sentence.

Atty talking about hate crimes.

[Hepburn]

26. This atty rocks...

...he is really doing a great job...talking about how Roeder played god, all the other murders of MDs who did abortions. Violence at abortion clinics.

His voice has a good edge to it without being strident. Making the point of the violence.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. He is bringing up the right names too

Sherry Shannon tried to kill Dr Tiller in 1994.

[Hepburn]

30. That part of his impact statement, IMO, was really excellent.

I have to agree with the position he is taking -- hate crime, domestic terrorism, against const protected rights.

I am taking a break to get coffee and wondering what the heck the other side can say to counter this statement.

[Dinger]

42. They Go To A Fucking COMMERCIAL In The Middle Of Lawyer Statements?

WTF???

[Hepburn]

51. Oh, yeah....

...but look, below, I have CNN and how to get to the live stream. I have TRU on the tube -- but on mute and waiting for the lawyers to leave the side bar.

Sound back on...side bar over.

[Hepburn]

29. Atty finishing up...

...saying this is a hate crime and should be punished as a hate crime. Roeder did not kill Tiller for being Tiller, but for being an abortion doctor.

TRU on commercial break at this time.

[Hepburn]

31. DA speaking...

...court received certain information on Roeder and DA wants it incorporated and noted in the file and sentencing. I think that is what is going on. Her voice dropped during the address to the court.

Talking about ag circ of the crime and the applicable statutes.

[Hepburn]

32. Pretty much the same thing going on...

...legal stuff. DA still speaking.

[MountainLaurel]

34. Kicking

To keep at the top.

Thank you for the updates.

[Hepburn]

37. You are welcome...

...important case to me. When the sentence comes in, I will try and up date the thread title so everyone knows.

[KG]

33. interesting to note it's not being carried on the 'mainstream' news channels.

[Hepburn]

35. Yeah...

...after all, it was just an abortion doctor. More important things -- like the love life of John Edwards and Tiger Wood.

:sarcasm:

[MountainLaurel]

36. cnn.com

at least has a live feed (though buried in a list of other stories)

[Hepburn]

38. Thank you...is there a link?

Much appreciated...:hi:

[MountainLaurel]

53. Try this

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream3&hpt=T2

[Hepburn]

56. Thanks...

...:hi:

[Dinger]

39. Got It On Now

The Tiller Family wants the maximum punishment, and so do I.

[Hepburn]

41. Amen...

...and I have the feeling that this is what will happen.

TRU doing ANOTHER commercial! Jeeeeeeeez!!!!

[Hepburn]

40. DA still speaking to the court re: ag circum issue...

...she is, of course, arguing why there should be an enhancement of the sentence. Pretty much the factual reasons we all know -- citing state law with her argument to the court.

[H2O Man]

43. Thanks.

Just turned it on. A very important case, in my opinion. I'm glad that Tru TV carries trials live.

[Hepburn]

44. Heya, H20...

....great, really great, to see you! :hug:

[H2O Man]

122. Thank you!

Great to see you here, too!

The coverage is both tropubling and satisfying.

[Hepburn]

124. Yeah, I know what you mean...

...so sad for the family and loved ones...and for the women that will suffer because Dr. Tiller is gone.

[H2O Man]

125. Hatred is an ugly force.

This fellow represents the distilled hatred that is being unleashed within our nation.

[Hepburn]

126. Taking the law into his own hands because God is on his side...

...scary as all hell to me!

[Dinger]

46. I'd Like A Hard 50,000

Fuck that 50 shit. Just sayin'.

[Hepburn]

49. +50,000...n/t

[Hepburn]

47. TRU commentary...

...DA still on speaking about "hard 50" for Roeder.

DA states that as far back as 1993, Roeder started thinking about killing Dr. Tiller. New fact to me.

[slackmaster]

48. Taggage

I hope he gets the max.

[Hepburn]

50. CNN Link:

http://www.cnn.com/

Go to CNN page...look at column of far left...look for video camera with red mark inside.

If you have no sound at the moment...counsel at a side bar at bench.

[Hepburn]

52. DA -- prior to actual date of murder, Roeder went to the church five times...

...on his mission to kill.

[Hepburn]

54. Court speaking...

...prior to moving to defense presentation, short recess.

Switching to TRU for commentary.

Vinnie Politan:

Says that Roeder will present character evidence. Roeder scheduled to speak.

TRU going to ANOTHER commercial.

[Hepburn]

57. TRU commentary:

Vinnie Politan and Jean Casarez

J: DA used what the defendant said on the stand to set out the ag circ of the crime.

V: speaking to a defense atty. Def atty: Thinking out of the box -- bring in mothers with living babies where mothers did not have abortions. (WFT???)

V: showing Tiler's lawyer's impact statement. Part about Const rights.

J: hate crime -- because Tiller standing with those who had const protected rights to an abortion.

V: Argument from former atty is that Roeder could never do this again if he never saw the light of day.

[Hepburn]

58. Still on break....

...guest defense atty speaking about the "hard 50" rule -- no judicial discretion and that is what the problem is in his opinion.

Vinnie: What may be heard from defense -- character witnesses.

Jean: Judge will allow charcter witnesses. Personal character ONLY. No statements on his beliefs.

Vinnie asking guest def atty: How will this work. Response: Emotional issue with people with a deep bias and hopefully def counsel will have schooled them on what they may and may not say.

[Hepburn]

59. Jean comment:

Character of Roeder most likely intertwined with his beliefs -- so what can the character witnesses say? How to separate.

[Hepburn]

60. Hey, cube rats...live coverage coming back on shortly...

...just more commercials at the moment! :hi:

[Lochloosa]

61. Thanks

[Hepburn]

63. You are more than welcome...

..it has to be frustrating to want to know what is happening and you cannot get to the info you want.

:hi:

[calimary]

119. Geez, Hepburn, a HUGE load of work you're doing here! Thank you!!!

Wow - another DU MVP!

:patriot:

[Hepburn]

62. Back in session...

...Mark Rudy, def atty for Roeder, speaking to the court.

Wants the court to keep in mind re ag circum, understand the pain to the wife and family. But court should follow the law re: the hard 50. What the state mandates is the issue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. He also wants the court to ignore that this happened in a church

"That bears no relevance"

:wtf:

[Hepburn]

118. Interesting considering what the court found later on ag circum...

...there is that "other" category in the "hard 50" law -- and the court found that the crime was particularly heinous because it was in a church, a place of sanctuary.

[City Lights]

64. Thanks to everyone providing a "play-by-play" on this!

:yourock:

[Hepburn]

65. Def atty citing Kansas case law....Lopez case...

... about ag circum for sentence enhancement.

Looks like the big issue on this is whether the court has to go with the hard 50 based on the ag circum...or if this does not apply.

Lots of argument on this and I am not hearing anything that I think is really hard on the side of the def that takes it out of the rule. But...I do not know the law in this state and how much the discretion the judge has.

[Hepburn]

66. Def atty trying to distinguish the cases from the facts of the Roeder case...

...as to the application of the hard 50 rule.

Speaking about "atrocious and cruel" elements of the application.

[Hepburn]

67. Body language of the def atty...

...he is a public defender. IMO, the way his is standing with his arms crossed on his body -- he is saying what he has to say and doing his job, does not like what he has to say.

JMHO

[hlthe2b]

70. Even if he is anti-abortion (and I don't know either way)...

he would HAVE to be conflicted as a student (and presumedly proponent) of the rule of law.... one would certainly think, at least.

[Hepburn]

73. It just looks to me like he does not like Roeder...

...no soft words, no turning to the client, etc.

He is hitting the points and doing his job -- and not doing a bad job at all. But...his tone says to me that he does not like Roeder.

Just my opinion.

[Hepburn]

68. Hard 50 talks about anguish of the victims...

...not of the witnesses and def atty is distinguishing. Says that DA brought this up and that is not what hard 50 is about.

Def atty says that the state cited no cases on stalking -- general feeling does not amount to satisfying elements of the hard 50 rule.

If Tiller believed he was being stalked...not the same as factual evidence that Tiller was stalked and knew it.

Have to say that the def atty is doing a good job on distinguishing the case law cited by the DA.

[Hepburn]

69. Dumb statement, IMO, of def atty:

Summary -- Roeder was careful when he killed Tiller...so hard 50 does not apply.

:puke:

[Solly Mack]

71. K&R

[Hepburn]

72. Another bad def atty arg --

putting Tiller on pedastal and stating now that women cannot have abortions, Roeder should not have harder sentence.

Came off wrong.

Denial of Const rights should not lead to a harsher sentence -- def atty arguing this.

[Hepburn]

74. Judge speaking on issue of ag cirucm.

Asking the DA to respond. She is speaking of her research and cases. She speaks to prior statute -- hard 40 -- about ag circum. Cruel, atrocious, heinous (sp?). She is talking about intent to the deft to have the acts as such. The issue is factual as to what the acts are in and of themselves.

I am summarizing.

She is saying that it does not matter that Roeder was on a mission of righteousness in his mind.

[Hepburn]

75. DA doing a good job...

...she is speaking of underlying motives and history of defendant.

Sentence in accordance of acts he did -- not according to his belief system, but in accordance with the justice system.

[Hepburn]

76. Roeder acted because his belief system was not being supported...

...so he took the matter into his own hands = an assassination = terrorism.

Statement of the DA.

She is on a roll, IMO.

[Hepburn]

77. Roeder chose the victim to make a statement -- DA

She says this is the essence of the hard 50. This is what the leg intended by this law.

Mentions to ag assault convictions.

[Hepburn]

78. Whoa...

...the DA is really hitting it.

Roeder seekin his const protections, but violated DR Tiller's.

She pointed out -- it's DR Tiller, not MR Tiller.

[Dinger]

80. DA Kicking Ass Now,Talking About Constitutional Rights

And she's pissed. :patriot:

[Hepburn]

81. Can go out and kill someone because he thought it NEEDS to be done.

Look at the conduct of the defendant.

Should he be rewarded with a minimum sentence? Community needs the protection. What if next time it is a judge, a policeman, etc.

Summarizing.

[Dinger]

83. I'm Not Liking What This Fucking judge Is Saying . . .

Shit, sonofabitch. There's gonna be more murder. . .

[Hepburn]

85. Listen now...

...he did not find on the first ag circum...but IMO he is finding that there is ag circum on the issue of henious and atrocious.

Seems OK now to me.

[Hepburn]

84. DA asking to court find that the ag circ have been shown...Judge speaking:

1. Issue One: Risk of death to more than one person, supports the hard 50 -- but factually distinguishable from Lopez. (Risk to passenger after driver shot.)

Judge citing case about struggle over gun with police officer after a shooting -- Sup Ct: Act of killing had been completed when struggle took place. Oklahoma case -- not binding on KS case -- but applies.

Threats to others -- not simultaneous to killing of Tiller. It was after while Roeder escapting. Separate conviction in this court.

Manner of killing -- point blank to forehead of Tiller -- did reduce the risk to others. The other convictions -- part of the killing of Tiller, so no risk to others present at death of Tiller. Therefore not an ag circ

Issue Two: However: Henious and atrocious manner issue:

The manner of the death of Tiller -- court finds this as an ag circum of the killing. Any of the conduct of the deft is sufficient...court lists the conduct such as stalking the victim.

[Hepburn]

87. Court: Planning and stalking...

...prior stalking demonstrated. From 2002 on. He targeted Tiller.

Issue Three: Prep and planning:

Plans to cut off Tiller's hands/arms. Ramming car into Tiller, etc. Other trial testamony of thoughts of harm to Tiller listed.

Planning overlaps -- long range sniper killing of Tiller. In 2002, decided on killing Tiller in church.

Learned lay out of church, duties of ushers, times of services. In 2008, took 9 mm to church and in 2009, took another gun and test fired. Bought other ammunition and equipment.

Summarizing...

court stating other acts.

[Dinger]

86. Oh For Christ sake, A Commercial In The Middle Of judge's Comments??

Fucking hell!

[Hepburn]

88. Go to CNN...home page...

...look on left side for video camera and Tiller case. They are not cutting into the proceedings.

:hi:

[Dinger]

90. O.K. Thanks (nt)

[MiniMe]

89. Watch it on the CNN feed

No commercials. http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream3&hpt=T2

[Hepburn]

91. IMO: Judge is making a factual finding on the elements -- Summary:

1. Did not find this one -- risk to others

2. Found -- planning

3. Found -- henious and cruel (atrocious,too, I think)

4. Found -- other factors court can consider: Yes, it is henious and cruel. Roeder went to the church to do this. Church = sanctuary from violence.

[Hepburn]

92. Court: Killed Dr. Tiller at point blank range and left him bleeding on the narthex (sp?)

Woman, small children, Tiller's family.

Total disregard to the reverence of a house of worship -- this alone is atroucious and heinious.

Pls pardon spelling!

[Hepburn]

93. COURT FINDS AG FACTORS EXIST RE: HARD 50!!!!!

:applause:

Now court goes on to the rest of the hearing for any mitigating factors that can be presented by the defense.

DA: Comment -- continuous acts of violence after killing. Court: Things like mutilation of the victim's body, not other acts of violence is what is contemplated under the law.

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. Are the character witnesses next??

Please?

[Hepburn]

98. Yes, the defense now has its turn -- witnesses

I am not understanding the legal argument about the purpose of these witnesses which is going on between the Court and Def Attys at the moment.

Court: Purpose -- mitigating evidence broader than the hard 50 statute.

I think that is the deal -- not just mitigation on the finding of the ag circum, but on the entire issue of punishment.

[Subdivisions]

96. delete. wrong place. dammit! n/t

[Hepburn]

95. Hearing now to defense -- now or wait until the afternoon session.

Defense counsel confer on the question from the court.

[Subdivisions]

97. Hepburn appreciation sub-thread ...

You're doing a great job live-blogging this sentencing hearing, Hepburn, and I just wanted to thank you for doing it.

:yourock:

[Hepburn]

99. Thank you for the thank you!

[leftynyc]

121. I second that thank you

Frustrating that I can't watch or listen and you're doing a fantastic job.

[Hepburn]

123. Hey, I am a fast typist!

And you are welcome. Some times that small skill comes in handy!

:hi:

[Dinger]

100. K & R!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm Gonna Start One. . .

[Dinger]

102. Here Ya Go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8068253

[Hepburn]

101. Wait...character witness for Roeder speaking now....

...I thought it was going to be after lunch.

First Speaker: Old white gentleman: Speaking about being with Scott and praying at events at abortion clinic. Found Scott courteous even about abortion procedures. Talked about Jesus Christ and interp of the Bible -- viz abortion. Everyone says Scott no mean spirited. (BTW -- the description is not a put down -- just info.) Now quoting scripture about abortion that Scott used. Scott says the modern day church compromised Jesus teaching.

[Hepburn]

103. Still first speaker:

Only saw Scott upset one time -- some date in May when Tiller found NG. Scott was really upset over this according to this. Roeder quoted: "It was a sham."

[Dinger]

105. That Fucker Is Trying To demonize Dr. Tiller

Rot in hell.
(I am referring to his reference to roeder being pissed that Dr. Tiller was found "not guilty.")

[Hepburn]

117. What a dumb statement...

...he says Scott was NEVER upset...except about Tiller. Well, gee, whiz...that sure helps...not!

[proud2BlibKansan]

104. Eugene Fry is a regular here in KC

I saw him in June in front of the very clinic Roeder vandalized 24 hours before he killed Dr Tiller.

I asked Eugene when he got pregnant. He said never. So I asked which of the women he had yelled at walking into the clinic was pregnant with his baby.

He lit into a tirade that made zero sense.

Eugene has been a regular weekly here in KC at a local park. I sat there a couple times and watched people going by yell at him. He got zero support from anyone. LOL

[Hepburn]

107. Thank you for the info...

...court just stopped him on expressing certain opinions.

Love your questions and discussion! :thumbsup:

Now going on with why Scott's beliefs should be consider -- baby created in image of heavenly father. So...Tiller wasn't?

What total bull....

[Dinger]

109. Good On You p2BLib

:thumbsup: :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

114. I hate these people; they are everywhere here

They have ruined our congressional delegation in DC. For awhile we had 4 reps - 2 Dems and 2 pukes. Then in 1991 Operation rescue came in and took the Wichita seat back. (Dan Glickman, he went on to serve in the Clinton admin).

These assholes are everywhere. They won't leave our doctors and clinics alone. They even protest at clinics where there are no abortions performed.

[MiniMe]

106. What the heck is a pre-born baby

This guy is whacked

[Hepburn]

108. Ummmmmmmm....

...what happens the instant the sperm and egg unite???

:shrug:

[arthritisR_US]

120. they form a pile of goo and start to differentiate. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. Eugene asking judge to consider facts and lessen sentence

Says abortion culture in this country may change in the next 5 years.

Judge shut him up.

[Dinger]

111. Good For judge, telling this fucker to shut up on abortion (nt)

[proud2BlibKansan]

112. recess till 1:30

[Hepburn]

113. COURT IN RECESS UNTIL 1:30 pm KS TIME!

Getting coffee and going on BR break!

:hi:

[Hepburn]

115. EUGENE FRY = Perfect example of what these wack jobs are all about.

He has the opportunity prior to a lunch break to speak on behalf of someone to mitigate ag circum that the judge found. And what does he do? He uses it as a platform to piss off the judge and to get in anti-abortion statements.

Starts with, yeah, Scott is a great guy...it's abortion that needs to end.

WTF???

[Hepburn]

116. Just read on Google News that Roeder is calling Randall Terry as a character witness...

...I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

:shrug:

[Hepburn]

127. Randall Terry is vomiting his bullshit on TRU TV at the moment.

His opinion is that the judge made prejudicial error in the trial. Basically because he could not talk about his views on abortion.

GMAFB>......:eyes:

[Hepburn]

128. FUCK YOU, RANDALL TERRY:

His statement on Dr. Tiller: "His story was written in the blood of babies."

:mad:

[ceile]

129. Sorry. remind me who Terry is?

[Hepburn]

130. Operation Rescue...

...ultra anti-abortion nutjob.

Pretty much excusing the conduct of Roeder.

[ceile]

131. Ah. Yes.

Scum....

[Hepburn]

132. Total scum...

...absolutely total scum.

[DoBotherMe]

133. kick

[Hepburn]

134. Thanks! nt

[Hepburn]

135. 1:30 PM Session should be starting very soon.

CNN still blank. TRU TV goes off air soon...12:00 noon PDT.

Defense up this afternoon on sentencing and mitigating factors. One character witness prior to the noon recess for Roeder -- abortion activist who had to be stopped several times by the court for going into areas which the court outlawed.

This AM, there was a finding that ag circum applied and the "hard 50" rule is at issue. This would basically be life in prison for Roeder since he would have to serve 50 prior to being eligible for parole.

Will blog whatever happens for anyone without access.

BTW: TRU replayed parts of the victim impact statement done by Atty Lee Thompson who had rep'd Dr. Tiller in the criminal cases brought against him. The more I heard of Mr. Thompson's statement -- the more I realized how excellent it truly is.

:hi:

[Hepburn]

136. Roder's ex wife being interviewed...

...talking about a letter that asshole wrote to their son. He told his kid that he (Roeder) was disappointed that his child was pleased that he had been found guilty.

[Hepburn]

137. Ex-wife urges hard 50...

...if only 25 years, Roeder would be 79 and could do it again. She then spoke of her admiration to the Tiller family.

[jellen]

140. What Happened? It's Not on??

Some other stupid ass show.

[proud2BlibKansan]

164. Go to CNN

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream3&hpt=T2

[Hepburn]

138. Live coverage has not rusumed yet...

...should be soon, tho.

[proud2BlibKansan]

142. No longer on Tru Tv

Listening on CNN now.

[Hepburn]

139. Back on....

...I missed the first part of this speaker -- had a phone call.

[kestrel91316]

141. Roeder motivated by self-sacrificial love. Oh. Okay.

Oh, and he has never been known to curse.

Well, then, FREE THE MAN!!!!!!

[Hepburn]

143. Can you believe this bullshit????

What is the deal about prison conditions??? And the lord brought him toilet paper????

:wow:

[kestrel91316]

144. Who is this whining, apologist asswipe??

[Hepburn]

148. I have no clue...

...but IMO someone went to Central Casting and asked for "Right Wing Asshole."

JMHO

[proud2BlibKansan]

145. Character witness has never heard him curse

Also says poor Scott misses taking long bath.

OMG now this wingnut is crying.

Roeder claims the Lord provided him with toilet paper in jail.

Good gawd these people are insane.

[Hepburn]

146. This is really, really bad and I am not just saying this because...

...I think Roeder is a POS.

This is like wing nut mania!!!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

147. Scott longs to be a law abiding citizen

[Hepburn]

149. Well, yeah, except where the rights of the unborn are concerned...

...then he listens to what the lord says to do.

:puke:

[proud2BlibKansan]

150. Yep. Now this wingnut is talking about obeying higher authorities

:rofl:

[Hepburn]

152. Do you think he meant Randall Terry??? n/t

[MiniMe]

153. Preborn, whatever that is

[Hepburn]

151. Wing nut exits after judge tells him this is NOT a political debate.

Picks up his shit from the lecturn and leaves.

:shrug:

[jellen]

Were There Always Cops Standing In Various Parts Of The Classroom?

Seems like I didn't notice that before.

[Hepburn]

156. Lots of LE all the time...but VERY heavy today. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

154. I think that lady in the brown jacket and white shirt

is Regina Dinwiddie.

Haven't seen her in years but that kinda looks like her.

[Hepburn]

157. Could be...

...wow, talk about an anti-choicer!

[proud2BlibKansan]

159. I found a picture of her

[Hepburn]

162. Camera is on the shrink...

...so I will have to wait until they go back to the courtroom seating.

[Hepburn]

155. Defense witness, George Hough, Clinical Psychologist

Giving his C.V. Has done this 21 years.

Where he got his PhD -- sounds like one of those BS schools of which I have never heard of. Belongs to a psych org I don't recognize either.

[proud2BlibKansan]

158. But he was trained at Menningers

That was a top notch psych facility for nearly a century.

[Hepburn]

161. Still looking for his CV...

...sounds like one of those schools where you basically pay for the advanced degree.

Still looking.

[proud2BlibKansan]

165. Maybe one of those other schools

Not Menningers.

I know that place well. Family member was a patient there for many years.

[Hepburn]

160. Quick, quick google on Hough:

Have not seen anything or anywhere where he has testified for other than the defense.

[proud2BlibKansan]

163. He's not saying a lot of nice things about Roeder

Parents divorced when he was 15.

He used drugs till he was 28.

Trouble holding a job.

Spent time in mental hospitals.

Searching for church.

Both marriages ended in divorce. 'Neither wife could accept the full spectrum of his beliefs."

Might be tied to a terrorist org. (WTF?)

[Hepburn]

166. That terrorist stuff caught me, too...

...I am reading about Hough -- one of his areas is the psychology of the terrorist mind!

[Hepburn]

167. Hough: Roeder saw abortionist killers are heroes.

Hill -- who was executed in Fla.

Did not want the limelight -- it was a moral imperative. Did not want to be put on a pedastal.

Hough asked Roeder why the ultimate action against Tiller. Roeder explained that it had to be "all the way" because previous person had shot Tiller in both arms and it did not nuetralize Tiller. As long as Tiller had a mind, he could teach other -- therefore posed a danger.

[Hepburn]

168. Why church -- Hough asked Roeder:

Roeder stated it was practical -- Tiller vulnerable there. Solved access problem.

[Hepburn]

169. One month before killing Tiller...Roeder in parking lot...

...but Tiller not at church.

On the date of the murder, according to Roeder, all the "forces finally converged."

Did Scott feel justified -- def atty question.

Hough: Says Roeder felt no guilt, justified, and felt relief on doing what he needed to do and what he needed to do for a long time, glad for the unborn who would be born. His mission had been accomplished.

Asked if he would do it again: "Yes, if that is what it took."

It was a blow to the enemy on the abortion issue, blow between lightness and dark.

:puke:

[Hepburn]

170. Justification issue again: Hough states...

In his (Roeder's) moral universe -- acting in obedience to higher law. God's law trumps man's law. Understood he would be punished. Would suffer whatever punishment coming. But he obeyed the higher law. Mission to do so.

Personal considerations: His mother would be destroyed and he would not see his daughter again. These considerations subordinate to the higher law. Willing to forego this and spend time in prison -- higher law.

[Hepburn]

171. Opinion of Hough:

Roeder ability to conform to req of law -- substantially impaired, but not entirely. Strength of his belief system -- gaining over 2 decades -- rationality gone. Hyper religiousity and contempt for govt. Modelling in seeing others going before him. Internal situation -- what normally would stop people, on overload for Roeder. The power of the bliefs was such that it moved him forward.

[Hepburn]

172. Hough: Roeder could not longer conform himself to the law. n/t

[Hepburn]

173. DA up on X exam.

Different DA -- female, looks older and more experience...just a guess here...maybe she is a sentencing specialist.

Hough going through his notes: Initiatlly contacted by PD's office for his services. June 10, 2009. Discussed his services on the case. Evaluate Roeder...to if Roeder has disease, defect, competency issues. But the PDs office did not think so...wanted to deal with issues, tho.

DA's voice is hard for me to hear -- in the range where I have a hearing loss. But I am getting the drift of the questions from his answers.

Talking about testing and the dates of testing.

[Hepburn]

174. Discussing records reviewed by Hough...

...he says prior to first time he saw Roeder.

[Hepburn]

175. DA appears to be tying him down on foundational issues.

Not sure where she is going with this...but keeps asking about "other" information obtained.

[Hepburn]

176. DA asking about "Impairment" issues which Hough had testified to earlier.

DA now asking about certain character traits of Roeder.

IMO, a lot of this is not going anywhere.

[Hepburn]

177. Questions about strong beliefs...

...Hough: The man believes very strongly, believes that he is right about these beliefs and correct. Imbedded in the beliefs is a call to action. This is a part of his belief system.

[MiniMe]

178. Westboro Baptist Church, Roeder apparently met with them

[Hepburn]

180. Wow...

...talk about being on the ultra fringe!

[MiniMe]

181. Yeah, that sort of caught my attention

[Hepburn]

179. DA -- Roeder can conform his behaviors. Hough agrees with statement.

On to issue of religious changes of Roeder. Strong advocate of certain bliefs.

Still no dents in that mitigate, IMO.

[Hepburn]

182. Rationality would not have prevailed with Roeder -- per Dr. Hough.

Further: Coherent, cogent argument which might convince others. However, with Roeder...this does not apply to Roeder. Would not work.

[Hepburn]

183. No one else would kill Tiller -- so to Roeder, it fell to him to do this.

Roeder sees someone else doing someting -- Hill in Fla -- this showed Roeder how it is done. There is a scenario there.

[Hepburn]

184. Character traits per Hough...

...narcisism: Refers to Roeder's image of himself. Outgoing, gregarious, people person -- how Roeder sees himself. Different than an unrealistic image of self. Positive sense of esteem that he can get along with people.

...hystrionic: Proclivity to be emotionally reactive. Higher emotional flares to same stimulus. A flare of emotions.

...justifiction of actions: Questions pending...judge calls afternoon recess for 30 minutes.

[Hepburn]

185. THREAD #2: Link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8070015

See you there. Am looking for some news articles and will try and post links during the afternoon break that is now taking place in the proceedings.

:hi:

[kestrel91316]

186. Will there be any consideration of the likelihood of reoffending?

Because, IMHO he has a 100% chance of doing the same thing or worse if he is not locked up until he is too physically frail to reoffend.........