If your church preaches hate, intolerance, homophobia, anti-choice sexism then please leave it.

[Union Yes]

This is a plea to progressive christians.

I'm not asking you to leave your faith, I'm asking you to leave just the church that may preach what's in my OP headline.

The Catholic church is a prime example of preaching anti-choice sexism and homophobia.
Parts of the Evangelical denominationa are ever more hateful.
Think Pat Robertson and Rick Warren.

Remember when Beckkk asked his flock to leave churches that preach 'social justice'?

Let's apply a reverse standard and ask progressives to leave churches that preach sexism and bigotry.
There are many progressive churches that are growing in membership due to the fact that progressives are tired of the same message coming from that 'Old Time Religion' type church. Progressive churches would welcome you with open arms.

Believe it or not, the right wing doesn't own the copyright on religion.

[defendandprotect]

1. Should anyone still be supporting male-supremacist churches in 2010???

Find out what your church is all about -- examine the values of the hierarchy of

the church.

Do they hold females in the same esteem that they hold males?

Or are you contributing to and supporting male-supremacist religion?



Keep in mind that true spirituality comes from within -- not from outside.

Not from middle-men.

[Union Yes]

3. Word! Not much that I could add. +1 nt

[omega minimo]

24. ++++++++++++++

[omega minimo]

25. ++++++++++++++

[calimary]

55. Yep. There isn't one woman I know among my neighborhood's Catholic mom contingent

who doesn't sincerely believe that the really sickening chauvinism that continues to crush women in the Catholic Church is to a large extent to blame for what's gone on. NO women priests. NO women elders. NO women in any position of any true meaning or significance or power. Along with the other stuff - the celibacy, the ban on gays - treating gays as second-class citizens, AND women as maybe third-class citizens. Burns me up! Especially when I think of all the women of faith whom I know who are FAR BETTER equipped for the ministry than some of the priests I know are.

[Arugula Latte]

2. It's beyond me why people who say they are for equal rights for all (women, gays)

continue to prop up institutions such as the Catholic Church.

[Warpy]

5. Catholics are generally sensible people

who realize a celibate old man in a dress doesn't know jack shit about how married and family life is conducted and thumb their noses at Rome when it comes to reproductive rights.

Catholics are more likely to be pro choice and more likely to be liberal than their Protestant brethren. The church must be doing something right along with all the stuff it's doing wrong.

Still, their constant attempt to force Rome's dogma into civil law should net them a visit from the IRS. I'm sure it would take only one visit for Mother Rome to decide to forgo politics.

[Arugula Latte]

9. If they know Rome is full of shit, why do they buy the rest of the dogma and mythology?

I guess I just don't understand how people can see through certain things but not others. But, then, I'm still astounded that millions of otherwise intelligent people truly think that dead Jesus is going to come back to Earth one day.

[Warpy]

12. I don't pretend to understand the sincerely religious

but I do know a lot of people are afraid not to believe. In any case, belief seems to be pretty hard wired and what you believe is programmed in childhood. It doesn't have to make sense and is largely compartmentalized away from the sensible everyday stuff.

[Union Yes]

18. Yep I completely agree.

:fistbump:

[demosincebirth]

23. Does that bother you? I've been a liberal catholic all of my life and

I am not in lock-step with the hierarchy of the church or some of their teachings. don't paint with a wide brush.

[defendandprotect]

34. We are questioning the support which keeps that hierarchy in play . . .

even if you are not giving the hierarchy money, church attendance suggests

support for the church and its hierarchy.

How are you dealing with the sexual abuse of children and knowlege that the policy

came from on high -- from Bendict, himself -- when he was an aide to PJII?

And, what of the physical abuse of children in schools which seems to have long been

practice of the Catholic Church -- ? Certainly here in America, children were beaten

in Catholic schools!

And what of the historical violence of the church -- needless to say, as directed

by hierarchy?

[demosincebirth]

38. I get up on Sundays, go to mass, make my donation, come home

turn on the tv, pop open a Bud and sit back and relax. Its a bad time for the church, but I have no control over something that someone else does. Also, I feel for the victims of the pedophile priests, but thats all I can do. I hope that these days will change the thinking of the hierarchy of the church from shuffling these pedophiles from parish to parish and let the legal authorities handle them. I know, now, that many atheists and anti-catholics groups/people have a great chance,now, to bash and condemn the church for its abuses and sins that occurred during the 2 thousand years of the history of the church.
The Church continues to do many good things around the world in helping those who need help the most. We seem to skip the good that the church does through out the world and only, continue, to focus on these evil deeds and over look the good that it has done and continues to do.
I believe the Church has learned its lesson and will do everything in its power to make sure these things never happen again.

[defendandprotect]

43. Don't let worries about abuse of children keep you from your Bud and relaxation -- !!

It's not a bad time for the Church . . .

it is now and has been a "bad time" for its historical victims --

genocide vs Native American -- enslavement of African here.

And, before that, 1,100 years of keeping Jews locked up in Papal ghettoes -

until they were forcibly set free by first the French and then by the Italians!

Where did you think Hitler got his views and ideas about putting Jews in concentration camps?

Jews forced to wear Yellow Stars -- in Papal ghettoes.


Granted you may have no control over what another individual does, but you do have some

control over yourself -- and if you are interested in any way in justice, democracy, equality

for all, you wouldn't be involved with male-supremacist religion.


Further, seeing criticism of the RCC as "bashing" doesn't help you discover anything about the

true history of the church and it's current practices, which you seem overall happy to ignore.

Yes, "2 thousand years of its abuses" -- and still going on!


Whatever "good" the church may be doing -- and btw, that would be with American taxpayer money

now for their "faith based" organizations -- it does not redeem them from their two thousand

years and more of violent, murderous behavior -- nor their current prejudices.


The Church's war on Nature in "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" also gave

license to exploit nature, natural resources, animal life -- and even other human beings

according to various myths of inferiority!

I believe the Church has learned its lesson and will do everything in its power to make sure these things never happen again.

Did you not read the article which makes clear that the church is quietly moving pedophile priest/

abuserss of children back into position?

I would say you'll believe anything, as long as it's what you want to hear -- !!

So, go back and turn on the TV and pop open your Bud . . . sit back and relax.

Don't worry, be happy. Someone else will save the children!

[demosincebirth]

47. 1.2 Billion adherents don't agree with you or you bigotry. n/t

[defendandprotect]

49. They must have a high tolerance for sexual abuse of children . . .

I don't -- !!

[gmoney]

4. How about if your church protects child molesters?

Seems that might be a dealbreaker for more people than it evidently is.

[mdmc]

6. I hear ya,, but no thanks

but I don't give cash to the Church - I just don't have any cash..

[defendandprotect]

8. Your presence, your lack of criticism is support --

[mdmc]

27. I criticize through my presence

I mean, are you not a democratic party member? Do you support the patriot act or the drug war? I don't , but our party does. That doesn't make us less of dems.. We are not greens, we are dems..

[defendandprotect]

35. Organized patriarchal religion is quite different from a political party . . .

No one took me into the Democratic Party before the age of reason and

brainwashed me --

No one in the Democratic Party seeks to make it an openly male-supremacist party --

No one in the Democratic Party suggests anyone is "infallible" --

nor do they dictate what I am to believe!

No one in the Democratic Party says "god" needs money -- again.

And as far as I know, Democrats allegedly are support "equality for all" --

the RCC does not.

If you are female, especially, why would you align yourself with a male-supremacist religion?

Somewhat masochistic, it seems?




Main Entry: mas·och·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈma-sə-ˌki-zəm, ˈma-zə- also ˈmā-\
Function: noun

1 : a sexual perversion characterized by pleasure in being subjected to pain or humiliation especially by a love object — compare sadism

2 : pleasure in being abused or dominated : a taste for suffering

[mdmc]

37. Should all Muslims leave their wisdom tradition as well?

I went to my first political event when I was 6 years old..

[defendandprotect]

42. It's masochistic for any woman to involve herself with male-supremacist religion .....

And you certainly didn't go to a political event at the age of 6 years --

without someone taking you!

Still, there is no "god" -- and especially no violent god -- connected to the

Democratic Party. No Hell, either!

Unfortunately, your comparison of religion and politics isn't far from wrong given

the overt political activism we've seen on the part of male-supremacist religions over

the past decades. Granted the effort to influence government always existed -- it was

simply better hidden!

[wickerwoman]

51. Nobody is suggesting leaving a "wisdom tradition".

The OP explicitly states that you can continue to have faith without shoring up corrupt institutions.

And yes, if you believe that women are human beings just like men and should have the same rights, you should not be attending Muslim services or donating money to that institution.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

7. We have a mixed marriage.

My wife is Catholic and I'm an Atheist. So while it bothers me that she still supports the church, our marriage is more important with all that we've been through health and money wise. Luckily, she does realize that a lot of things that the church does and has done are disgusting, but I haven't been able to convince her that she can be a good person without financially supporting the church.

On the bright side, the Priest at her church is very progressive in his words and actions. I'm still surprised that he hasn't been removed by the local Diocese. This is a very conservative area and the town where the church is located is even more so.

[Toasterlad]

10. Nice Try. Religion Is Like Crack To Some People.

There's no good reason for them to use it, but they can't stop. Especially the catholics. The women, gays, and kids don't matter. They'll just fall back on "MY church is DIFFERENT!" However, there's NO such thing as progressive parish. Women are considered inferior in EVERY parish. Gays are considered immoral in EVERY parish. Don't believe me? Then ask a female priest to give me a call. Or an openly gay priest.

Religion is the world's oldest scam, and business is still booming in 2010.

[Berry Cool]

15. Saying that all religion is a scam is being intolerant of believers.

People have a right to believe if they want to. They should, however, choose a faith in keeping with their personal values.

[defendandprotect]

17. No -- this is a public arena for anyone to question and challenge on any subject ...

including religion.

Religion is a private belief system which, however, effects all of our lives

because the hierarchy of the church is political in its conduct, seeking to

inflict its beliefs upon the entire population.

That's why even married couples had no right to birth control in America until 1960's --!!!

:think:


Just as many Catholic women as any other women have abortions --

In order to restore its control over women and reproduction, the RCC continues to try to

influence government to end support for sex education, birth control, condoms and abortion.

Same with homosexuality -- Prop 8 --

ERA -- Catholic and Mormon churches defeated the Equal Rights Amendment in America with

tax-exempt dollars.

Nor does the RCC support democracy and equality for all -- their continuing war on women

is proof of that.

:think:

[GoCubsGo]

28. That's not it....

It's not "like crack." It's like being in a cult. (ALL religions are cults, IMO.) I was raised Catholic, too. It was hard for me to leave, because they had pounded the fear of eternal damnation into my brain from Day One. I spent nine years in catholic schools, where they taught you to memorize "facts", but not critical thinking. They brainwash you, and scare the crap out of you so that you conform. And, another part of the reason it took me so long to leave was that I feared rejection by my parents. They didn't, fortunately.

[defendandprotect]

36. Agree --

and, often they get kids before even the age of reason!

Why parents subject their kids to this, I can't figure out!

Long tradition in my family -- Irish Catholic/America -- little quesitoning of

history of church or behavior -- teachings!

Most of the teachings were based on violence -- Hell, the Cross -- Fear mongering.

Martyrs!! We had one lay teacher who was fixated on martyrs and described their

terrors/tortures every day -- all day long!

Total psychological abuse of children!

[trayfoot]

11. I did - years ago....

when my minister started in on abortion! I hate organized religion of ANY stripe! I am still a Christian with a strong faith - I just do not trust human led religions anymore.

[Swede]

13. If your country preaches hate, intolerance, homophobia, anti-choice sexism then please leave it.

nt

[Ganja Ninja]

14. I haven't been to church in 30 years.

I've always thought it was a scam and they prove me right over and over again.

[Berry Cool]

16. Maybe your church was a scam.

Not all churches are. Some actually advocate social justice and human values.

[defendandprotect]

19. Christianity is based on male-supremacy . . .

nothing about that basic concept has changed-- except very minimally.

[GoCubsGo]

29. Yep. I saw the Man Behind the Curtain, too.

"Scam" doesn't even begin to describe it...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

20. Dude, I walked away from xtianity YEARS AGO.

As far as being non-homophobic, non-sexist, tolerant and all that good stuff, I can only come up with a few. None of them are the big three Abrahamic religions of course.


Unitarian Universalism, secular humanism, Buddhism, Baha'i. Perhaps there are others I don't know about.

I consider the gods and goddesses of Asian religions to be archetypes of various aspects of human personality. That's why they have peaceful ones and wrathful ones (that kick ass and take names).

Any doctrine that says god is exclusively male, whether one or three, is in my opinion sexist. Any doctrine that does not honor the feminine archetype in the form of a goddess equal to a god is sexist.

I refuse to accept the cultural baggage and literalism of xtianity. We can do better with historical role models that are not superstitious, illiterate, goatherders.

To make it work it must be reduced to universal principles such as "love one another".

[Union Yes]

21. Horus, Dionysis, Mithra, Jesus were all 'born' on Dec25th.

Google 'solar dieties'. Some very interesting stuff.

Horus' myth predates Jesus by 1500 years or so.

Dionysis predates Jesus by 800 years.

Mithra by 700.

Jesus is at best the fourth 'god' born on Dec 25th. I smell a copycat religion in the works here.
But for those who still choose to believe in that stuff then all I ask is that they attend progressive denominations.

I enjoyed your reply and agree!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

39. Yep, Jesus is just like Osiris, Mithra, Apollo, Tammuz.

All got the same birthday, born of a virgin, three wise guys show up, star in the East and so forth.

[Ilsa]

22. Done already.

My church in this town was all about Sunday morning and trying to tell other people how to live. I had enough.

[951-Riverside]

26. What about churches that are against eating shellfish and worshiping ...Molech

Should I leave those too?

[Cleobulus]

31. Are you seriously comparing homophobia, and other evils with dietary prohibitions?

And theological details?

[muffin1]

33. Yes, he is.

He's a real DU treasure.:eyes:

[fishwax]

41. I don't see the connection

:shrug:

[Urban Prairie]

30. My country uses and has used my tax dollars to engage in invasions, conflicts, and occupations

of other nations, and wastes waaay too many billions on our so-called defense of which I am wholly opposed to. I can not obligate our government to spend it only on job creation, health care, the poor, education, and our crumbling infrastructure, which is where I would much prefer ALL of it to go to.

Must I leave it, or remain here and continue to lend my support (as much as I am able to), to those leaders whom I believe will continue to fight, and sacrifice their time, money, health, freedoms, and sometimes their very lives for what I believe is right and just and admirable about it?

No matter if many are pagan, atheist, agnostic, christian, jewish, buddhist, wiccan, scientologist or whatever, there will always be those who profess to believe the same, but will use what amount of power and authority that they possess to defend, cause and/or personally inflict harm to the innocent, vulnerable, weakened, impressionable, gullible, faithful, loyal, or defenseless.

IF there really is a supreme deity, or deities, I would hope that it or they will very harshly judge and punish those in any afterlife, who took advantage of their standing while alive to the extreme detriment of others, even if they also were involved in noble causes, which is very often the case.

[Cleobulus]

32. False argument, generally you have a voice in the government of your nation...

you also, due to the way laws are set up, unable to easily leave or not pay taxes. This is far different from Churches and other organizations(not religions themselves). People such as my mother chose to leave the Catholic CHURCH, but still consider themselves Catholic even though they refuse to participate in that undemocratic institution.

[Green_Lantern]

40. isn't that what conservaives said about Obama going to Rev.

Wright's church? You agree with them?

Sorry but you're playing Glenn Beckian guilt by association arguments.

The priest at my Catholic doesn't preach hate but THAT doesn't fit the narrative you want to portray.

[defendandprotect]

44. No, it's what liberal/progressive DU'ers said about Obama's Rick Warren . . .

The very foundation of the Catholic church is built upon hatred and wars ...

vs Nature, women, homosexuals, Jews, Africans enslaved here, Native Americans, pagans --

and anyone who had a different belief system or challenged their teachings!

We didn't write the history of the RCC, the hierarchy did --

[calimary]

45. Well, I will say this... I cannot wait for Easter Sunday Mass!!! Not to be missed!!!

I CANNOT wait to hear the homily. I'm really looking forward to hearing what they have to say on this particular Easter Sunday - with all the crap swirling around Benny the Rat. Will they address the subject? Will they somehow try to excuse the Pope, or talk around it, or try to preemptively disinfect it? Or will they ignore it completely and pretend there's nothing wrong? Will they go the other way and flat-out assert that there's nothing wrong? Will they say it is wrong but it's being handled (now just shut up and go away, please)? Or will they try to make it one of them-thar "teachable moments" and say the beautifully non-committal and worthless weasel words "mistakes were made"? Or will they liken this "cross to bear" to the torture and sacrifice of Jesus on the first Good Friday, the way the Pope just did?

Truly, I cannot wait! I can't wait to get in there! Which on the very face of it is awfully sad, a sad way to be thinking. Seems to me that's not the kind of motivation you should have for being eager to get to church. I've become so damn cynical, though!

And yeah, sad or not, this is gonna be good - and MOST instructive as to the attitude of the LA Archdiocese, and indicative of the larger response and whether the Vatican's pushing for a uniform offense/defense strategy to be adopted across the Catholic world. I bet memos galore have gone out all over the place from Roger Mahoney's office about how and whether to bring it up. (Yeah, Roger Mahoney of all people. He has a few things to address, himself!)

I can tell you this for certain: EVERY parent in there is going to be feeling the same way. A VERY uncomfortable weekend for the parish priests, I bet. Sunday's one of the two biggest box office days of the year for churchies. And I'll bet it'll be standing room only - but with noticeably less in the collection plate. Donations were down rather dramatically in our parish after the last molestation mess made the local news. I remember the discussions some of us mothers had at the parish elementary school and out in the parking lot after Mass, and how disgusted every one of us was, and how we weren't feeling so generous anymore, since the concern was that our collection plate contents might be dumped into some settlement. Even the more devout Catholics were feeling that way.

[defendandprotect]

46. Have Mothers requested any change in situations where children might be supervised by

a parent when there is contact with a priest?

[calimary]

52. Not that I know of - we graduated out of that school several years ago.

What's so difficult, and so heartbreaking, is the betrayal. In some of these parishes, these priests have been there for years and many families go to Mass every Sunday and their kids are in the parish school and they see the priests all the time and build almost family-type relationships with them. And it goes on for years. And you come to trust your priest - I mean, shit! They're your priests! That should be the absolute safest place for your children - around people of God. It must be a COMPLETE NIGHTMARE when you find out that the priests are the very source of your betrayal. I cannot imagine how monstrous that is!!! You don't know whom to trust anymore, and you shudder in horror at all the years of trust you genuinely felt in your heart. I do not know if it's happened in our parish. So far it LOOKS AS THOUGH nothing has.

But that's the thing. You just don't know anymore. You can't be sure anymore. I'm sure all these families in the affected parishes loved their priests, had them over for dinner, went out shopping with them for groceries or helping them in and around the rectory, had genuine friendships going. And then this happens.

Just shitty. Especially when you start watching more closely and you observe how poorly this has been handled, and you see how it looks very much as though the hierarchy is still in denial and ISN'T dealing with this morally, ethically, OR legally. When you see how the main concern of the organized Church is for the priests - AND NOT THE CHILDREN AND FAMILIES WHOM THEY DEFILED!!!!!!!! Gee - I wonder if that was Jesus's priority? It's the crime AND the cover-up. I will NEVER be able to look at Roger Mahony again without feeling thoroughly and irreparably disgusted! Same thing for the Pope. I just can't look at him and not see this. And not see the cover-up. And not see the crimes. And not see the images of all those molesters just transferred around like game pieces on a Monopoly board to get them out of range while the people they hurt suffer and are told simply to pray and it's God's will and all that crap. They turn the whole "it's God's will" thing into crap.

:mad:

"Suffer the little children..." INDEED. NO FRICKIN' KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!

[defendandprotect]

53. What are the views of young people now who have been attached to the church?

Is the trust still there?

[calimary]

54. Well, observing my son's friends, they seem mostly to go through the motions

because it's a Catholic school and there's lots of unavoidable built-in Catholic stuff scheduled - special Masses and observations, retreats, etc., all year long. They seem pretty jaded about the whole religion thing - they're FAR more interested in exploring the "other forbidden fruits" out there, like girls and beer and girls and beer and more beer. And in my son's case, music in general (and his band in particular). The retreat my son went on was conducted by lay faculty members, and when we went to closing ceremonies, some 26 boys had gone on the retreat and they all got up and made some remarks one-by-one, and talked pretty emotionally about what a wonderful and positive and expansive an experience it had been - OTHER reasons like all the coming of age stuff and facing yourself and your own truths and/or falsehoods etc. The one thing I have observed is that the head of the religion department is a young straight guy, a civilian, whom all the boys really like. He seems like a really good egg, and we've known him since freshman year. My son is now a senior. They worked together on the school play for three years and he taught English and some theology classes early-on. The boys all seem to like him a lot and yes, to trust him. There are only two priests involved in the school - the president and the principal, and they too seem trustworthy and nice. And it appears they do like to drink a little bit and brag about the school's football team and baseball team - which are pretty good. They also are gone a lot, traveling. This particular order has franchises all over the world and it seems like they're always going off to conventions or something.

There are some boys who have embraced their religion pretty intensely, including one kid with whom my son went all through elementary school who is very devout, still an altar server, parents are very strict Catholics and participate as lay ministers in the Mass. They're very serious and seem to live their religion - the kid always took seriously whether a movie was rated too - um - pungent to attend, even though everybody else he knew either was going to that movie or had already seen it. They usually do the "early show" - the 7:30am Sunday Mass, and the dad is one of the readers and this kid and his two older sisters (if they're not off at school) still do altar serving, too. There's always a few, even at the upperclassmen stage, who remain fully committed and sincere and devout, usually because they have parents like that and that's how they grew up and that's all they know. On the other hand, if you're the child of cynics - like mine are - well, it kinda works differently I guess. I actually wouldn't be surprised to learn that the kid I was talking about earlier decided to enter the seminary after college, but he's totally into it, and hell, in all sincerity, he may even have The Calling. Yeah, I still believe in that, too. Just like my kid has "The Gift" of music and manifested it from the very beginning, and a whole bunch of these kids in this school have "The Gift" of football or athleticism or whatever. Mainly they participate in Mass and the other religious activities at school because they have to - it's in the schedule that day and they have to wear their dress shirts and neckties.

Another thing - a lot of moms of boys who've long since graduated still work at jobs at that school - either as receptionist or librarian or in the priory where the business office is (LOTS of them over there) and in the Student Activities and Campus Ministry offices. There are probably at least ten to 12 moms who are employees of the school, as well as the others who are the volunteers there all the time doing whatever else is needed. But there are moms on campus ALL THE TIME there.

I'm so busy with my son's band these days that I don't inter-act a lot at school or after school, and my son doesn't, either - because he's busy with his band. And as I said earlier, we're almost out of there anyway. Graduation is in less than two months. I don't have much opportunity to talk with them, and I don't know many of them that well. When our kids were in grade school, it wasn't molestation that was on everybody's mind all the time and that had everybody in turmoil and with their antennae up on red-alert level all the time, it was bullying. BIGTIME. And it was a problem. My son was bullied a lot. By both boys AND girls in his class - because he was different, didn't go out for sports, and would bring his guitar in sometimes and play it during recess and keep to himself and try writing songs. He didn't fit the template that way, and had very few friends in his class. One of the worst bullies was a girl in his class who was really cruel and kept trying to taunt him into getting into fights. Especially after everybody knew he and his sister had been in karate. Some of 'em really tried to provoke something. And the more my son wouldn't be budged, the nastier they became. He didn't have many friends by the time they all graduated 8th grade over there, and he was VERY glad to get out of there, but it was molestation and peer shit - NOTHING from any priests in the parish. As it turns out, a kid in the class one year ahead of him, who WAS a jock and still surfs, is now his bass player. But they only became friends in high school.

[defendandprotect]

56. What I was reflecting on ....

was the reality that as kids in Catholic school we NEVER told our parents about

the insanities going on in the school -- people getting hit -- etc.

Nor the general craziness -- and we NEVER spoke to one another about it!!

Think that really odd --

I had two sisters and a brother younger than me -- and we NEVER discussed it until

many, many years later!! And, I was shocked that my experiences weren't aberrations...

some of the things they experienced were even crazier.

So, it's this talking to one another -- to families -- and to friends -- that I think

is important. Obviously, these kids must have heard something about the abuses?

Something about demonstrations vs the Pope?

I must say, had my father's side of the family understood what was going on in Catholic

schools, there would have been a big time explosion. They were Protestant.

But, I don't see that as a reason not to have been talking about this -- I would have

welcomed their asking me about it!

It's quite strange how little info was traded, IMO -- !!!

[calimary]

57. That is definitely true!!! So much that remained unspoken. So much that was taboo.

It simply was not seen. I'm sure when I was a kid that a lot went straight over my head too. I had no idea that some of the girls in my high school class would sneak off campus to smoke and drink and take pills and see their boyfriends. Had no idea what they were doing. Had no idea about drugs, myself. Had no idea about a lot of what-was-then-budding FM rock radio. Had no idea about most of Jimi Hendrix's work. Had no idea about ANYTHING. Pretty sheltered and not terribly curious.

I wouldn't even have known what to ask about, much less have talked about with my friends. Besides, most of the girls I hung out with were kind of out-of-it, too. Too busy studying all the time, we were.

[defendandprotect]

58. And, therefore, I think it is up to the parents to find out what is really going on . . .

just as parents have to find out what's really going on in the groups your

kids are hanging out with -- you have to find out what's really happening in

school -- whether bullying, or abuse.

And, perhaps, the parents have to talk of their own experiences and the experiences

of others in Catholic Church to prompt their kids to discuss some of what they've heard.

[ncteechur]

48. I did. I left the baptist church.

[L0oniX]

50. ..and if it has problems with priests and little boys ...LEAVE IT!

[taught_me_patience]

59. I refuse to attend a church that is anti gay marriage

We've had to drop presbyterian and methodist churches and attend UCC. Pickings are slim... most churches are still bigoted places.

[Hippo_Tron]

60. What about the Episcopal Church?

I went to an Episcopalian service where the reverand called out Pat Robertson for his BS during the sermon. On the other hand, I know some Episcopalians (both clergy and non-clergy) who are pretty intolerant. How does one deem that an organization is preaching intolerance when often it's up to the individual congregation?

[Hippo_Tron]

61. Dupe n/t