Arizona isn't like Mississippi, it is like Somolia

[SargeUNN]

I grew up and lived in Mississippi for over half a decade, but spent time during that period in other states and other countries. I have to say that as I close in on the anniversary of my arrival in Arizona that marks 3 years, I see Arizona more like Somolia because it is trying so hard to shrink government to the size it can be drown in a bathtub. Grover Norquist has his horrible tenticles deeply in the State legislature that his ideals are extremely visible. The state under Jan Brewer has now gutted Kids Care, cut deep many social programs, Phoenix itself has a bus system that would not even rate as decent in Jackson Mississippi, now Speaker Adams is wanting to close 2/3 of the state parks which is part of the major industry in Arizona. Meanwhile the focus is on getting rid of those "damn illegals", having guns in bars and other places that guns are a potential diaster, and lord knows what else these idiots will pass. We had Napolatan (sorry about spelling), who blocked many of these efforts, but with Brewer in, they are now doing these things. Education here has fallen below Mississippi so much that I even laughed at how bad the education is, and I was educated mostly in Mississippi.

Just think if we had President McCain and these horrible right wingers like Bachmann, Bohner, and others in control. We would be doing exactly what Arizona is doing and moving closer to that country of Somolia. Obama has disappointed us, but let's remember that Janet Napolatano stopped a lot of the stuff that we face here, and now they are happening. Meanwhile in Phoenix we have a "progressive" station that the owner of said during the last campaign that he liked Joe Arpaio and he didn't have a problem with Joe. He didn't even know that Saban was running dispite the fact that Saban was spending money running ads on that state that even ran on the guy's show. Meanwhile, we watch as our state slips into a void of government, and with Janet now in DC we don't have a buffer.

[Posteritatis]

1. Arizona is paradise compared to Somalia.

Gotta love the perspective failures around here.

[SargeUNN]

2. Rose Colored Glasses are sure nice huh?

If pointing out how we are falling into a hole, if speaking out about how a state in this country is headed into a failed state isn't proper then so be it. I have watched as the last 14 months Arizona has fallen deeper into this hole than anyone could believe. No it isn't doomed but if we ignore it or color it as not so bad and ignore it, then we are willing to let it fall. Such replies as this works in the favor of the libertarians that are ruining Arizona and getting too big in our country. So if you think it is worth overlooking, then you better get ready for more. Look at what filth Arizona has put into our national government, McCain (the least of the beast), Kyl, Trent Franks, Jeff Flake, and others. Joe Arpaio has made a national name that has created others trying to be like him. No I refuse to give in to these filthy rats, but I refuse to act like they aren't creating a problem.

[Posteritatis]

6. Your comparison is inane, insulting and offensive

Get a clue about what Somalia actually is and put away this embarrassing hyperbole. The worst you're likely to encounter in that state would be a good day in most of the country you're comparing it to.

[SargeUNN]

14. Since you aren't getting it here it is simply put

Somolia is a nation that has little government, a poor people in a state of Chaos. They have many who are crippled and lack much hope. I will refer you to a statement made by Rep. Alan Grayson on my radio show about 2 weeks ago, and the failure of a government to do for the people has lead to such acts of disparation like piracy. That is the comparison and where this state is headed. That comparison is right on and if you can't see it then you need to look closer. Probably you don't know much about Arizona, or can not understand things don't fit 100% to be compared.

[Posteritatis]

18. I get it just fine

If you think your situation is even vaguely, marginally, peripherally comparable to Somalia, you have zero clue about the place. Period. You're living in a utopia by comparison; anyone over there would consider you to be whining about a pea stuck under your fourth mattress these days.

Try your comparison on someone who spent a little time in Mogadishu, or even better-off places like Garowe. I'm sure they'd love to be told that there's any parallel at all between their hometowns and even the worst of where Arizona might be headed, because the worst you could have in your neck of the woods is a big goddamned improvement over the best they have there.

[Alexander]

3. Arizona is a complete hell hole, with some of the dumbest and most racist people in the country.

It's next-to-last in public education spending. And it shows.

I've never seen so much unhinged racism or so many people who were proud of their ignorance as I did in Arizona.

[blueamy66]

5. Wow.

Do you have stats to back that up?

dumbest? most racist?

[Alexander]

7. Next to last in public education spending, yes I do.

http://www.sundeviladvocates.org/images/cliff_notes_edu_funding_az.pdf

http://www.asu.edu/budgetcuts/documents/Education_Funding_in_Arizona_Constitutional_Requirement_and_the_Empirical_Record.pdf

As for my comment that it has some of the dumbest and most racist people in the country, that doesn't need a citation. The key phrase is "some of", and if you misread it, that's not my problem.

But if you really need evidence...Sheriff Joe? Jon Kyl? John McCain? JD Hayworth? John Shadegg? Andrew Thomas? How do you think these people won their offices? Arizonans voted for them time and again, that's how.

[SargeUNN]

10. Not stats but I live in Arizona

I can't point to any stats right off, but I have lived here and done radio here in Arizona so maybe that is worth something. I also grew up in Jim Crow Mississippi and saw the racism of that time so I think I can add a little bit of knowledge to my statement.

I see as much if not more racism here than I saw in Jim Crow Mississippi.

Also let me tell you about Jan Brewer our governor and her "concern" about people. Her son committed a sex crime against a girl, but instead of letting him pay for his crime, she had him committed to a mental institution until the heat was off, then let him out. He got away with it. You ask about her son and the people working for her will tell you, "we don't talk about that here."

[Alexander]

11. Thank you. Unfortunately some are blind to the racism in Arizona.

Exhibit A: Joe Arpaio.

Brewer also eliminated S-CHIP in the state.

And what's the solution for solving the budget crisis? Why, fire more teachers, of course! :eyes:

Glad I left that place. It's going to get even worse in the next couple of decades.

[Initech]

32. I once saw this bumper sticker on the back of a truck (natch) while waiting outside PHX:

"Palin is hot, Biden is not."

I've seen a lot if stupid-ass bumper stickers living in California but this one ranks a 9 out of 10 on my WTF-o-meter.

[blueamy66]

4. You obviously have not

seen much of AZ.

Yeah, some of the politics suck, but it's a beautiful state.

[Greyhound]

22. With the Grand Canyon, the Painted Desert, the Petrified Forest, and

the Sonoran Desert (the only place on earth that has the saguaro cactus), it is one of the most beautiful places in the world.

Unfortunately, it has been invaded by the failures of every other part of the nation, everybody that was too incompetent, unqualified, or just plain dumb to make it back home came out here for their fresh start. They are still dumb, unqualified, incompetent, and thanks to decades of these idiots voting their "values", a bastion of criminality matched only by Floriduh and Texas.

I'm guessing you are a transplant, read up on the politicians of Arizona from 1912 - 1980. Tiny population far from anything of importance, yet several of the most influential political figures in our nation's history were sent to DC by Arizona. Prior to 1980 this state was full of true western rednecks with their "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone and we'll get along fine" attitude and that attitude was reflected in everything including the law.

It was the 80's that began to change all that. The busy-bodies and religious wackos, the eastern neo-liberals and charlatans, turned this state into the object lesson it should be.

[Alexander]

30. +1000

:thumbsup:

[blueamy66]

34. yeah, I was transplanted here

over 35 years ago :eyes:

Are you stating that my parents were incompetent, unqualified and dumb?

[Greyhound]

38. I don't know you or your parents.

If they moved here in the 70's they've seen the change, if not, well...

Do you know how many large companies have declined to move here, in spite of the fact that the morons in charge offered the keys to the palace, because our workforce is inadequate to do more than push the pictures on a cash register?

[NeedleCast]

8. As a person who has been to Somalia

I promise you, that you have no clue what you are talking about.

[Posteritatis]

9. What were you doing there, out of curiosity? (nt)

[NeedleCast]

13. Intel support

I've been to Somalia and Djibouti. I can't imagine more hellish conditions. Because they were intel operations I'm not at liberty to really talk about them very much. I don't mean that to sound smarmy, just how it is.

Both are places where the unemployment rate is well over 50% in the cities and usually worse in the countryside. In Djibouti, the AIDS rate is just astronomical. I assume that Somalia, especially Mogadishu, it is as bad if not worse.

I understand the OP's intent and agree that Arizona has some horrible politicians and policies and appears to be getting worse, but comparing Arizona to Somalisa is like complaining that your filet is slightly over done while the person your dining with eats cat turds. Like a poster upthread said, the very worst day in Arizona is a sunny springtime walk compared to pretty much every day in Somalia.

[Posteritatis]

17. Ahhh, fair enough

I was that upthread poster. ;)

I was following a thread elsewhere awhile ago where the opposite view to the OP's was being discussed - a libertarian poster was seriously suggesting that the place is a paradise and that the stories of their horrible lies are propaganda by the socialist media to thwart their Randian glories or something. That one got shot down by someone else who'd spent awhile in-country doing relief work - and who, oddly enough, was also a libertarian so he couldn't even be dismissed on ideological grounds.

[NeedleCast]

26. The "libertarian paradise" myth

I can understand why some "big L" libertarians would promote that myth. There are people who do truly desire to live in these absolute anarchic conditions. Generally, they are real assholes. They want a life where they can literally do whatever they want, and they will take the highly increased risk of their life coming to a violent, abrupt end. Abject poverty is the norm (not western poverty where you might have to decide between turning off your cable or cell phone in tough times...it's poverty where people commit capital crimes to squire a pint of water or crust of bread). Life has little to no value. Crime is a near absolute...everyone is doing it, everyone is a victim of it. There is no government or law enforcement (that isn't corrupt top to bottom).

I honestly think it is outside the realm of imagination for most people who have not encountered it (like the OP).

[Posteritatis]

28. Yeah, this one thought the risks and so on weren't there

You know, the whole idea of a Confident, Self-Reliant And Well-Armed Society Where Men Are Men And Women Are Also Men And Everyone Respects Everyone(tm), that sort of thing. The reality of the situation really was off his mental radar, and to the guy's credit he started reevaluating his position when an ideological fellow-traveler gave him some on-the-ground stories about the place. But still, gah. It struck me as kind of self-evident that the place is a hellhole, and I'm speaking as someone who's never left the continent and whose "poverty" experiences are closer to the cable-or-cellphone variety.

Do you have an opinion on the breakaway regions there, by the way? Somalia as a whole is hosed, but I've been reading on and off about the two secessionist regions in the north who, while still kinda hosed, seem to be better off so far and are at least holding multiparty elections and the like.

[NeedleCast]

29. Better is Subjective

I always start with the UNICEF stats:

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/somalia_865.html

They paint a horrid, if clinical picture. Almost one quarter of children under five die before their 5th birthday. Less than 30% of the country hass access to potable drinking water. I don't mean to make light of poverty in the west, but it is VASTLY different from poverty in the "bad" parts of Africa (and elsewhere).

As to the break away regions, I've never seen them so cant comment directly. I was also stationed in Afghanistan shortly after 9/11 happened, when the northern alliance warlords who were resisting the Taliban were our "allies." I'd imagine it's comparable. Most people I interacted with or heard about living in Northern Alliance areas were happier than those living under strict Taliban rule, but you can't compare it to the western world by any means. Happyness among the Northern Alliance was not being publically flogged for listening to M.C. Hammer. Happyness for the women was being able to read a magazine without being arrested and possibly put to death.

I imagine its a case of those regions being the least worst of a very, very bad area.

Edit to Add this from Wikipedia, displayed as a red warning across the page:

WARNING: Mogadishu is regarded as the most lawless and dangerous city on Earth. It is not safe for leisure or tourism. If you are planning a visit for international aid work, etc, you will need expert advice and planning

[SargeUNN]

16. Oh but I do

Here is the thing you can't see. The biggest thing in Somolia is that the government there is next to nothing, and the people are pretty much on their own. According to Alan Grayson a couple weeks ago on my radio show, many of the people are crippled and hurting because their support doesn't exist. Here in Arizona we have libertarians that are trying to get rid of government, a legislature that cuts back on social programs or eliminate them, unemployment is growing and already high, but this state is not responding. It is a state that is growing more and more poor and working really hard to have the same type government as Somolia. Now if you think my statement on Somolia is incorrect then you need to learn about Somolia.

[Posteritatis]

19. At least spell the country's name right before lecturing someone who's been there about it. (nt)

[SargeUNN]

23. You are amazing

You are stating things that just amaze me. First, to compare things doesn't mean one has to be identical to the other. Two, you don't seem to be able to understand the comparison which is valid. Three, you don't wait until things get identical before you start alerting people to the direction a situation is headed. Fourth, if misspelled then sorry about that but it was close enough you knew and if that is what you focus on then it validates why you can't get it to start with.

[Posteritatis]

25. Nope, I reject the validity of the comparison entirely

Of course they aren't identical, but I reject that they are even comparable. If you think they are you know nothing - nothing - about Somalia's history over the last generation, and have no business trying to discuss it. You're just being a standard-issue profoundly sheltered American with no sense of perspective about the rest of the world here, nothing more.

[NeedleCast]

24. I have been to Somalia, have you?

Your repeated misspelling of the country name leads me to believe that you have not.

To compare lawlessness and lack of government in Arizona to Somalia is beyond naive. It shows that you - like many westerners - do not have a clue about what Somalia is like. I have spent significant time in Phoenix, Tuscon and was stationed at Fort Hauchuca in Sierra Vista, AZ for four months, with several return visits.

No...Sarge...YOU need to learn something about Somalia (like how to spell it among other things).

[GoldenOldie]

20. As a 60-yr resident of Arizona and married to a 4th generation Zoner

I am ashamed of my fellow immigrants to Arizona, such as John McCain and all those who located to a once beautiful, neighborly, friendly state and chose to litter, foul-up, and pit neighbor against neighbor. Arizona is now run by the illiterate, uncaring Phoenix mafia of CON's, Mormons, and Militia. The strong leadership of a Republican Barry Goldwater is long past and the influx of immigrant dudes who chose to bring their bias's, racism, bigotry and shallow morals with them to destroy a once beautiful Arizona. One only has to look at John McCain (military brat of and Admiral)choice of Saran Palin as his VP, running mate, to know that McCain cares little of Arizona or of the US, which has paid and propped up his entire existence. I am amazed when supposedly educated individuals whose only source of information is Fox news and Limbaugh, buy the swill and vote against they and their families own best interests. I can now understand how easy it was for Hitler to capture the minds of the German peoples.

[slackmaster]

12. Where the fuck is "Somolia"?

Is that where Smores were invented?

[Texasgal]

15. Where is Somolia?

:shrug:

[mwrguy]

21. Can we give it back to Mexico?

That's who we stole it from in the first place.

[Confusious]

36. Who stole it from the Navajo

How far do you want to go back?

[barbiegeek]

27. If a Mississippian thinks AZ school suck, it must be bad

[classysassy]

31. Military and colleges

I believe the number of military retirees and out of state students who remain here in arizona after college or military service has turned this state into a hot bed of right wing zealots.John McCain retired navy, John Kyl law student at the U of A both from out of state.Most military retirees are republicans and some of the college grads have been brained washed by conservative teachers and most of them remain here because of the climate or jobs with the military or local government.Here in southeastern arizona we have some of the worst racist in the country(there are no good racist).There is that horrible sheriff up in phoenix,sheriff joe a complete asshole,without respect for the law and the old fools love him.Arizona was one of the last states to have a MLK holiday,one of the former govenors Ev Meacum refused to honor Dr King.I will never forget the sticker on the truck of a citizen of our state"nov 20 2009 a day of infamy"that seem to be the mind set of most of the citizens here in arizona.

[Initech]

33. I go to Phoenix all the time, there are a lot of stupid, racist people there.

One time I went to a Diamondbacks July 4th game and during their fireworks show they played some of the most nauseating Christian flag-waving bullshit songs I've ever heard in my life.

[Confusious]

35. That's a statement full of hyperbol

Kinda like saying "Obama is a radical leftist" or "Obama is a communist". We laugh at those sorts of statements, as I laugh at yours.

All you really would have had to say is Arizona is worse then Mississippi, and the point would have been taken, and probably agreed with.

BTW I live in Arizona, though not in PHX.

[Jack Sprat]

37. I understood you, SargeUNN

The beautiful state of Arizona is being ruined by Republican and libertarian politicians. From your description, I take that it is real bad and getting worse. You didn't mean that it was literally as bad as Somalia, but it's getting bad with a floundering educational system and societal disintegration. I take it that you have lots of people who are satisfied with low taxes and living behind gated community walls while the largest percentage of the population (probably 90-95%) gets poorer and life gets harder with a lower standard of living. It sounds like America as republicans and libertarians eagerly are willing to accept it. It's the selfishness that drives their ambition. If they are living like kings, who cares about the rest? Good post. Does your radio show stream online?