I'm totally convinced that Obama is playing at some Jedi Master level...

[MrScorpio]

And the everyone else is stuck at Padawan learner.

I don't plan to second guess the guy,

However, if he and the rest of the Democratic leadership in government seems to fail to meet our expectations, I'll stipulate that it's the lack of overwhelming public support that's the root cause of the problem.

Democracy is the our only and best effective weapon for overcoming the corporatist oligarchy.

If we Americans fail to use democracy for our overall benefit, then we only have ourselves to blame.

[polichick]

1. Yeah, it's a pretty good trick running as a Dem and governing like a Republican. nt

[Cary]

4. Gloom and doom.

Gloom and doom. <eyeballs rolling>

[polichick]

7. Your eyes might be rolling, but mine are wide open. The truth is often ugly. nt

[emulatorloo]

10. The truth can't be represented accurately with hyperbole

[polichick]

14. Mine was a simple truthful statement - no hyperbole involved. nt

[Oregone]

You know good and well a Republican would say a catch phrase prior to the policies

"Drill baby drill" before opening up offshore drilling.

"Smoke em out" before escalating the Afghan war

"God loves free markets" before privatizing schools


Obama has said none of those things. Its therefore hyperbole to make such a claim that he is governing like a Republican.

[polichick]

19. LOL

[kenfrequed]

But...but... *sputter* It's 12th dimensional Vulcan chess...

Actually that was pretty funny. He seems to be partially governing in a manner to realize republican hyperbole. Why do I feel like this is Bill Clinton all over again.

[Oregone]

44. "Why do I feel like this is Bill Clinton all over again"

Because this is what the Democratic Party now stands for, so obviously their behavior in office will be consistent. Its Third Way politics, operating in the confines of a skewed political spectrum while being too afraid of private industry to attempt to realign the center leftward.

For some reason, a bunch of out of touch people with old Democratic ideology still support and vote for a party that has changed so much they merely share the same name anymore

[kenfrequed]

63. Eh... I hear what you are saying.

But I don't think it is the whole party that goes this direction. I think the problem is that the leadership is dominated by conservadems and DLC people and for some reason the Democratic party does the Republican parties job for it.

[polichick]

67. Yeah, they don't even have to win anymore - as Rachel Maddow said last night...

Obama might be the best Republican president we've had in a while.

[Cary]

70. Or maybe reality should have some bearing on attitudes.

I mean, when was the last time we had a government that satisfied your ideological purity test?

Was it like, never?

[polichick]

76. Yeah, how awful of us - Rachel and I both like Dems to be different from Republicans. nt

[laughingliberal]

86. +1000 nt

[Cary]

99. You speak for Rachel?

I don't begrudge you your opinion. I just think you're reckless and impractical.

[polichick]

112. You'd have to read upthread to get it - instead of posting your silliness. nt

[Cary]

110. Oh, and if Rachel were as gloomy and doomy as you seem to want to be,

I wouldn't watch her.

But she isn't, so I do watch her. :)

[polichick]

111. LOL - this week Rachel said Obama will probably be the best Republican president...

...we've had in a while. What I said wasn't quite that "gloomy."

Thanks for the laugh.

[ClarkUSA]

113. self-delete

[ClarkUSA]

114. Prove your claim. I was watching her this week and never heard her say this.

Note that I don't worship at the altar of Rachel Maddow. Her viewpoint is often wrong. For example, she doubted Sen. Obama would win the general election every night for many weeks at a time when most informed punditry knew it to be a veritable lock.

[Cary]

118. She can laugh at herself

I don't worship her either, but I do give her credit for having a sense of humor and some humility. :)

[ClarkUSA]

119. Yeah, she doesn't take herself too seriously most of the time.

I have started watching her lately since Republicans have given her - and us - plenty of giggles. ;)

[Cary]

117. Laugh and the whole world laughs with you. . .

...gloom and doom and you gloom and doom alone.

She was talking primarily about Bill Clinton and the realities of governing, which is not quite like the gloom and doom you seem to be up to.

[polichick]

75. delete

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClarkUSA]

90. Spouting polemic is easy. Since a large majority of liberal Dems support Obama ...

such "Obama = Bush" type comments is clearly representative of a tiny minority who criticize nearly everything Obama does.

[Cary]

102. Do you think things are getting better or worse?

I think they're getting better, myself. I think we should the fear mongering and gloom and doom garbage to the teahadists.

[ClarkUSA]

105. I agree with you...

100%

Not that you don't know, but here are just two examples - from this week alone - why the 24/7 critics around here who claim Obama = Republican are :crazy:

"EPA Sharply Limits Mountaintop Mining"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x257998

"Obama administration has issued tough gas mileage standards for new cars and trucks hitting dealerships in the future...
President Obama suckered the GOP into showing that they are so obstructionist they would oppose their own agenda, if only it were proposed by the President. They were all watching one hand, which he was waving around to attract all the attention. Meanwhile, his other hand was doing something else entirely.

"This is the biggest step the federal government will have ever taken to save oil, cut greenhouse emissions and save consumers money," said David Friedman, research director of the clean vehicles program at the Union of Concerned Scientists."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8067959

:fistbump:

[Cary]

109. Yes, there is a long list of good things. . .

It's not perfect but we're definitely going in the right direction. Rome was not built in a day.

:toast:

[kestrel91316]

15. Yeah, dontcha wish McCain had won? We'd be SO much better off.

:eyes:

[polichick]

18. No, I wish an unabashed Dem had won. nt

[Oregone]

20. I agree. I prefer an intellectual essay prior to getting ass fucked, over a stupid cliche.

[JVS]

24. I'd really just prefer not to get ass fucked.

[Oregone]

29. Ah, but the soothing marketing makes it so much better. Give it a try.

[katandmoon]

27. Let's see. Obama's DOJ is upholding Bush policies on all fronts. His administration is totally

foot dragging on repealing DADT. Obama just got what amounts to a Republican health care "reform" bill through congress (a health care bill that mandates insurance purchase while ensuring plenty of loopholes for health insurance companies, and restores abstinence fudning). Obama wants to do offshore drilling. Obama is very big on faith-based initiatives and kisses the likes of Rick Warren's anti-choice, anti-gay ass.

Get back to me when a Democrat IS in office.

[Lost4words]

51. why are people not seeing this, they just want to believe too much

[ClarkUSA]

107. People "are not seeing this" because "Obama = Republican" polemic is fact-averse.

Here are just two examples - from this week alone - why the 24/7 critics around here who claim Obama = Republican are :crazy:

"EPA Sharply Limits Mountaintop Mining"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x257998

"Obama administration has issued tough gas mileage standards for new cars and trucks hitting dealerships in the future...
President Obama suckered the GOP into showing that they are so obstructionist they would oppose their own agenda, if only it were proposed by the President. They were all watching one hand, which he was waving around to attract all the attention. Meanwhile, his other hand was doing something else entirely.

"This is the biggest step the federal government will have ever taken to save oil, cut greenhouse emissions and save consumers money," said David Friedman, research director of the clean vehicles program at the Union of Concerned Scientists."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8067959

Also, if HCR was such a "Republican" bill, then why didn't one of them vote for it and why do the teabaggers hate it so much that they want to repeal it?

And all the "Obama = Republican" critics are right, then we can expect Republicans everywhere will totally support President Obama's "Republican" financial reform and "Republican" climate change bills, too, right? And I'm sure Fox News will rejoice along with teabaggers when President Obama starts "Republican" immigration reform next year, eh?

:sarcasm:

[ClarkUSA]

122. "upholding Bush policies on all fronts"? Wrong.

CIA’s top spy: No (intel) losses from waterboarding ban

Source: WP

Michael Sulick, head of the CIA’s National Clandestine Service, told a student audience last week that the spy agency has seen no fall-off in intelligence since waterboarding was banned by the Obama administration.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4330476

Obama Administration to Stop Raids on Medical Marijuana Dispensers

WASHINGTON — Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. on Wednesday outlined a shift in the enforcement of federal drug laws, saying the administration would effectively end the Bush administration’s frequent raids on distributors of medical marijuana.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/us/19holder.html

The Obama Administration is supportive of a current bill in Congress right now that would repeal DADT, but they've been a little busy lately passing HCR without a single Republican vote -- so much for saying HCR was a 'Republican health care "reform" bill'. :eyes:

And just wait until President Obama tackles the immigration reform bill next year! Oooh, that'll make Republican teabaggers happy!

:sarcasm:

[katandmoon]

17. +1

[JuniperLea]

21. He ran as a centrist and he's governing as a centrist...

No surprise here.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

33. sounds like your flashback was to your own expectations...

not reality.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kenfrequed]

56. Right...

And the constant use of the term 'change' and his regular references to the public option... obviously hallucinations. After all we have always been at war with Eastasia...

[Javaman]

58. At least there is plenty of victory gin.

the more I drink it, the more I see change! LOL

[katandmoon]

66. Oh, it was real, all right. Obama was the second coming. And it sure as fuck was not because he was

perceived as a centrist.

[Enola Gay]

80. Um, either the 'flashback' is accurate or he has failed to meet expectations.

It has to be one or the other.
shrug

[polichick]

31. As I've said before, escalating wars, coddling Wall Street, ins. cos, big pharma and big oil is...

...quite a bit to the right of "centrist" - and consistently giving up the best bargaining chips before negotiation begins is quite a bit beyond "pragmatist."

Progressives/liberals/Democrats aren't shocked or surprised, they're DISGUSTED.

[JuniperLea]

32. Gosh! When were you given the "right" to speak for all?

This is bullshit. I'm not 100% happy with all he's done, but I'm not a fool who goes blindly into a vote and then complains that my irrational expectations haven't been met.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polichick]

64. It's hardly irrational to expect a Democratic president to uphold democratic principles...

Sorry you have so few expectations for our leaders - maybe that's why they can get away with it.

[ClarkUSA]

115. You must've been really disappointed in Pres. "DADT/NAFTA/Welfare Reform/Media Deregulation" Clinton

Not to mention the fact that Bill Clinton invented the practice of extraordinary rendition...

:shrug:

[bvar22]

103. I will tell you one thing:

If Obama had campaigned on Individual Mandates without a Public Option and NO re-importation of drugs, he would have NEVER gotten MY vote.

But I think he knew that.

[Bluebear]

104. .

[inna]

85. +1

[Greyhound]

43. One of the great PR coups, they even got an award for it.

Taking a page from the Rove Cheney book of half-truths and implications, they successfully promoted the "Obama is a liberal" message without actually saying much that can be hung on him.

This is what they are good at, too bad they don't give a crap about anything but winning elections and protecting their paymasters.

[JuniperLea]

55. Show me where...

Because I remember NOT jumping on his bandwagon because he was too centrist.

:shrug:

[Greyhound]

62. Because you and I actually read and listen and comprehend.

'Showing you where' is impossible without assembling a depository of hints, implications, assumptions, and corroborations to expose manipulation (I'm sure somebody is already putting their book on this together), and that's the point.

Did Saddam Hussein master-mind, finance, or in any way support the 9/11 attackers? Of course not and you can't find a quote directly claiming that from any ShrubCo. criminals, yet somehow about 1/6 of us believe that it is so. Few people pay close attention to anything and especially to politics, so slipping this perception into the national consciousness without an explicit statement is not hard at all.

[JuniperLea]

68. Well, you'd be wrong about Saddam...

On the BushCo White House website, there was a speech quoted wherein W did indeed admit that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. I'm surprised you missed it. There was also mention of there being no WMD... and DU went wild. And the Pubbies continued with the lies even after Bush actually told the truth.

[Greyhound]

96. No, perhaps I mis-wrote or you misread. I meant to say that there

are no specific statements that he did help them, but that they successfully conveyed the impression that he did. Yes, they did eventually categorically state that he had nothing to do with it, but by then the disinformation was out and absorbed.

Our grand-kids will still be reading about "sources verifying his involvement", no matter how many times it is shown to be false, kind of like that 8 medical myths that many doctors believe story a couple days ago. Once the lie has taken root, it never goes away.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. well, he's obviously got you thinking these aren't the droids you're looking for.

[leftstreet]

40. +1

[npk]

77. LOL. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

88. Yeah, HCR was such "Republican" thing to do, not one of them voted for it!

:eyes:

[paulsby]

2. let's clear this up once and for all

somebody check his midichlorian (sp?) count and lets get this over with

[awoke_in_2003]

65. "check his midichlorian"

What, he can't even produce a birth certificate :hide: :rofl:

[Cary]

3. Only time will tell.

Any thoughts on the subject now are just a guess.

[Oregone]

5. Funny how some are intimidated into complacency by those who they perceive as smart people

Brilliant politicians have been bumbling clueless in the woods for centuries yet, while loyal masses cheered them on, but this one is suddenly Luke Skywalker swatting at a drone while blindfolded?

Its sad when people resign their intellectual abilities and hand over their thoughts to what they think is the smartest man in the room. Do so many suffer from some type of inferiority complex, thinking they are not worthy of intelligent thought? Ive never spent much time on the bottom of the barrel, so this thinking is alien to me.

[yurbud]

6. He had more support for health care reform than he used, and even killed some of it

likewise, he has more than enough public support to pull out of Iraq early.

He has more than enough public support to take much more aggressive action on switching to alternative energy, regulating the shit out of Wall Street and banks, enacting progressive taxation on the rich, and more.

The Jedi part of the equation we don't see is where the line is that if crossed, will cost him the wrath of the oligarchy and the loss of his presidency or his life.

[Oregone]

8. Totally true

Time and again, people just simply like this man in polling more than the policies being produced. What is "Jedi" about wasting political capital?

He has the abilities and support to shift America back to the true center, in a transformative wave seen not since Reagan. Yet...he seeks small success within the confines of a skewed political spectrum.

[yurbud]

93. when the Democrats had a supermajority in the Senate, they acted like they had a one vote

majority in both chambers.

[Ferret Annica]

9. Obama's a nice man and has some great thoughts and policies,

but nuclear plants, logging in the Tsongas National Forest, and drilling for oil offshore is just fucking stupidity of the higest order.

I like President Obama, but I reserve the right as an environmental activist to verbally eviscerate him, and work against him when he supports idiotic policies.

[dgibby]

25. Please don't forget about mountaintop mining. n/t

[Ferret Annica]

Thanks, yes, that is a big one that has me furious.

Obama all too often is a meaningless sock puppet when he claims to care about the environment.

[Cleita]

11. He is owning the Republicans. That's for sure.

It reminded me of something Al Gore said once after he emerged in public after his Presidency was stolen by Bush. Much of what Bush was able to campaign on was using the surplus for tax cuts. Gore came up and said in an interview years after that if he ever ran again he would run on repealing all income taxes, which would pull that rug from under the Republican's feet. I think he was joking but I could see the intent. I think this is exactly what Obama is doing. However, I hope he doesn't lose sight of the fact that he has an obligation to make all boats rise during his administration and frankly save this country from the plunder it has suffered under the last Republican emperor. This is not just a game of war in blowing up Republican bunkers.

[arcadian]

12. Pfft... I'm a Guild Navigator myself.

[obxhead]

13. I have a bridge for sale, very nice, 4 lanes, great view.

Priced to sell!!!11!

[Cal Carpenter]

16. Too bad...

you say "Democracy is the our only and best effective weapon for overcoming the corporatist oligarchy"

Too bad our only 'democracy' is in some nostalgic fantasy in our minds. We have made the word so abstract that it has no meaning anymore, not in the material world. We live in a country where bombing civilians is called 'spreading democracy' for fuck's sake.

We do not have a democracy. Certainly not an economic one, and without some form of that our so-called political democracy is meaningless.

[LeftyMom]

22. I guess the three dimensional chess metaphor was getting old?

Okay, here's the deal: I'm pretty damned smart myself. If he's doing something that's in my best interest, I'll certainly get any arguments explaining why that's the case. If the only argument left is "trust him, he's really smart and this is all a part of some plan" then I'm not buying that.

Nixon had a secret plan too.

[Dr Morbius]

97. The trouble with the chess metaphor is that

every chess player knows one sometimes has to sacrifice a pawn here and there.

Ever feel like a pawn? Not a good feeling.

[Hekate]

23. KnR, MrScorpio. Skinner's OP this morning blew me away.

This one
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8067959

Hekate

[Oregone]

28. It was announce yesterday I think

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-us-team-up-to-restrict-auto-emissions/article1519474/

Heh, we will see by 2016. :)

[laughingliberal]

26. "it's the lack of overwhelming public support that's the root cause of the problem".

Might be a tad easier to peddle that if we hadn't just witnessed the Democratic leadership kill the public option in HCR when it had the support of an average of 72% of the public. In state to state polling the lowest support shown in any state was 48%.

On the opposite side, we have the example of the bank bailouts that the vast majority of the country were against and they went through, anyway.

Public support figures very little, if at all, in what our leaders do. The only time they seem to pay attention to it is when the support is for something they already want to do.

[BanzaiBonnie]

34. Because Repubs have sworn to take our President down

if he says we must do something, like putting drilling for oil on the table, they must swear that's a terrible thing. They have to denounce it. They've put themselves in a terrible position.

He told them and now he's playing them. If they agree with him that we should drill off the coast, they look like losers to their base. They look like flip floppers.

[pscot]

35. I understand that he's a smart man

and that he has better information than I do. But I won't put my brain in a blind trust for any political leader. I think he's misread the economic situation, and his continuation of shrub's national security policies is worrisome. I'm not thrilled with HCR, and sucking up to Mitch McConnell and John Boehner strikes me as nutty. But it's possibe to disagree with the President without going into hysterics every time he does something you dislike. Let us reason together, as LBJ used to say, and leave the sky-is-faling antics to the Republicants..

[sfwriter]

36. I agree about the support thing...

The exceptions to offshore drilling, California and that bay in Alaska, were both vocal and well organized.

He will be as good or evil as we let him be.

[BeFree]

38. Don't tell the republicans !!!

They might catch on and start agreeing with something.

The idiots are being punked, and I find it educational and amusing.

GObama!!

[la_chupa]

39. he is smarter than I am

I find that comforting. Not that I agree with everything he's doing but goddamnitall there is an actual grown-up running the country.

Plus I'm pretty sure that if I sat down with him and he explained (using small words) why he is doing some of the things he's doing that I don't agree with I would go all Kucinich and fall for it.

Rahm Emanuel is still a horse's ass. I'm glad he's on **our** side but face it, the man is a horse's ass.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Well, he has the popular "Cave to the Republicans" gambit mastered.

[laughingliberal]

42. +1,000,000 nt

[HughMoran]

48. + 1 brazillion

Might as well go all the way.

:rofl:

[laughingliberal]

57. What's that expression? Go big or stay home?

;)

[inna]

87. easily amused, huh?

[arcadian]

46. Yeah, let's cave to Republicans and lose their respect no matter what we do!

Brilliant strategy. :eyes: :rofl:

[ClarkUSA]

116. Yeah, the GOP loved HCR and are totally supporting Obama's finance reform and climate change bills!

I must've missed the part in the Republican platform where they support the following Obama Administration decisions:

"EPA Sharply Limits Mountaintop Mining"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x257998

"Obama administration has issued tough gas mileage standards for new cars and trucks hitting dealerships in the future...
President Obama suckered the GOP into showing that they are so obstructionist they would oppose their own agenda, if only it were proposed by the President. They were all watching one hand, which he was waving around to attract all the attention. Meanwhile, his other hand was doing something else entirely.

"This is the biggest step the federal government will have ever taken to save oil, cut greenhouse emissions and save consumers money," said David Friedman, research director of the clean vehicles program at the Union of Concerned Scientists."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8067959

And just wait until President Obama tackles the immigration reform bill next year! Oooh, that'll make Republican teabaggers happy!

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

47. American democracy is a pretty weak broth and it's unclear whether the public

can intervene in their own behalf any more. We don't own our elections and the corporati own our media. I wouldn't be too hard on people who have no lever of power to pull.

[Feron]

49. Masterful April Fools joke?

Because believing that Obama is failing due to lack of public support is missing the whole point of leadership.

A leader fights and does the right thing even if that policy or action is unpopular. The Democratic leadership including Obama only fight for one thing and that is for the corporate elite. Throwing a few crumbs to the general public every now and then does not constitute a party that works for you.

And why should they change? They have people who will vote Democratic regardless. People that through the power of propaganda believe that Obama is one of them despite all of Obama's actions to the contrary. Nothing will change until people quit following and start thinking for themselves.

All leadership should be questioned, second guessed, and critically examined. How can a free republic survive or be reclaimed if we are to unquestioningly accept Obama's policies?! Furthermore there's nothing sadder or more pathetic than an apologist.

I may not be a gee whiz Ivy League graduate, but I am bright enough to recognize a con when I see one. Obama isn't there to smash the status quo, but rather to keep it.

[Lost4words]

53. Now that is a 100% accurate statement! He is protecting the status quo!

In my opinion he is concerned only with his legacy and his alone.

[NJmaverick]

130. What facts do you base that opinion on? If you don't have any you are

expressing a BELIEF or a Prejudice.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lilith Velkor]

60. Like the Jedi Masters who failed to stop the Sith from taking over the galaxy?

[Echo In Light]

61. PO had a HUGE majority support poll after poll

[ClarkUSA]

120. Like it or not, PO had a small minority of votes in the Senate.

:shrug:

[TheKentuckian]

69. Pulling the Jedi mind trick does not make one a master

especially when most of the mind trick is being done by the subject themselves.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tailormyst]

73. I don't mean this as a flame but

I find that sort of blind support for any leader scary as hell. We should always be watching our leaders and telling them when they hit a home run or when they completely screw the pooch. It's important. We have to participate and that means not becoming complacent by believing "they" know best.

[unapatriciated]

124. and that is what you call a working democracy.

:hi:

[joeybee12]

74. Come on, this thread has been going for hours and still no punchline...

...obviously this is an April Fools' joke! Well played!

[kimmerspixelated]

78. I like your post.

Obama IS at a master level of some kind, and I think he is playing a chess game at the same time. But he is human, although it's hard to remember that sometimes. One thing, he moves faster than other prez's, but then time itself is hurling at a decidedly faster speed, or so it seems. I wonder what he will do next. I think he has something up his sleeve that no one can predict.

[deaniac21]

79. I'm easily convinced too.

[Bluebear]

81. Democracy fails because we don't "support" our leaders? Wow. (Speculate, not 'stipulate' btw)

[frylock]

82. then there's tom tomorrow's observation..

he's so far ahead of everyone else, the brilliance of his strategy will only be apparent in retrospect.

and perhaps not even then.

[inna]

83. LOL and unrecommended. What complete nonsense.

Edited to add: creepy post, BTW.

[Starry Messenger]

84. Sense your post makes not.

[Bluebear]

91. I'm totally convinced this was an April Fool's post. nt

[Starry Messenger]

92. I hope so! n/t

[laughingliberal]

94. That's what I thought yesterday when I saw Obama was supporting offshore drilling

Then I realized it was only March 31.

[Bluebear]

95. Well, Jedi Masters CAN manipulate the calendar, I think.

Or not. :silly:

[ClarkUSA]

89. Well, George Lucas did say last year that he sees Barack Obama as Luke Skywalker.

Of course, that easily makes Obama's political opponents and 24/7 critics as honest and well-meaning as Emperor Palpatine.

:D

[Political Heretic]

98. He's the best Republican President we've had in a while.

That's for sure.

Not sure how much comfort that should be, but hey.

[ClarkUSA]

100. Yeah, the HCR got alot of GOP votes and so will the finance reform & climate change bills.

And just wait until the immigration reform bill next year! Oooh, that'll make Republican teabaggers happy! :eyes:

[kentuck]

101. Or maybe just out of touch..

Stuck in a bubble.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[walldude]

108. Oh I fully agree. especially if you are talking about the era when the

Jedi masters were all manipulated into fronting a war by a Sith Lord masquerading as a politician. If Obama is a Jedi Master then there must be Ysalamiri everywhere.

[northernlights]

121. sure he is. the question is...who is he playing 10th level Jedi-chess for?

I'll feel a hell of a lot better when Geithner is fired, the wall street thugs are out of treasury and the "Fed" is audited.

Until then, all evidence suggests Obama and Geithner are BFFs, and we the non-elite peeps have been sold into slavery for 10 generations or so.

[gleaner]

123. I keep seeing statements like this and I am so ....

weary of them. Star Wars was a movie franchise. There are no Jedi Masters. They were a figment of someone's imagination. There are other smart people in this country. Obama does not have a monopoly on intelligence. He is responsible for what his actions produce. If you add one and one you will get two. It is his actions that produce the lack of public support. He says one thing and does another. He denies that he has made statements that have been caught on video tape and expects to be believed despite the evidence of our eyes and ears. That is not logical thinking.

There are no unicorns except in imagination. There is no rosy master plan. There is a politician who acts like a politician with people who had hope of better, reading all kinds of mystical symbolism into his every act. It doesn't exist. What exists is a man calling himself a Democrat while acting like and catering to Republicans and the people who make excuses for him while blaming everyone but him for his actions. There is a serious flaw in that chain of logic.

You're not at the movies now. You're in the world and it is cold and hard and can be very ugly at times. People who see where they are going are a lot less likely to fall flat on their faces. If you want to support Obama, go ahead and do it whole heartedly. But please stop with the movie symbolism because you are making some of us very tired and that makes us want to ignore your posts. If you want to reach only people who think as you do that will work out well. If you want to reach the people who disagree which will have to be done before the next election, you might want to stop blaming us for Obama's mistakes in judgment.

[Hawkowl]

125. Still the stupidest post I've seen in a while

Go ahead delete it again.

[zippy890]

126. wow you're brave mrscorpio

I agree with you.

there's a large part of the american people who just simply do not want to come out of the 19th century.
clinging to guns, religion etc. lol
obama and democrats are trying to bring us into the 21rst century and so far doing an amazing job in short period of time after inheriting a major clusterfuck from his predecessor.

I love obama's calmness about it all. he leads by example. the more crazy people get against him the more calm and forgiving he is (at least in public) but then he's out there doing stuff, working toward goal of bring this big complicated country to a more perfect union.
i fear for his life.

[w4rma]

127. Tell him to quit giving away our schools to rich billionaires. (nt)

[RandomThoughts]

128. I thought that way for awhile.

But then I thought maybe it would be better if how you apply rules to other people get applied back to you.


So if a oligarchy type thinks he can buy the free will of another person by deception or dishonest practices, then his free will is up for bids. Pretty gnarly, and have not thought it completely through, but it seems applying what rules a person uses back to them is the only way I can think of things working out.

You can argue all day about democracy, but without free will what is the point. And free will requires the accurate information to make a choice. Education and transparency, then people can see what is going on and make real choices. If someone tries to change things to indoctrination, then they lose the right to argue against that happening to them.

So I consider propaganda and deception to be stealing free will. So as long as it is used, how successful would be democracy.

[B Calm]

129. When Alan Grayson told Malloy that Obama is playing checkers

not chess, that's all I needed to know! Don't get me wrong, I still support the man, but only because the cons hate him so and he is a hell of a lot better than John McCain!

[G_j]

131. The overwhelming masses did use Democracy this last election

seemed like a mandate actually