U.S. Military in Iraq Responds to Wikileaks, Releases Portions of Internal Investigation

[babylonsister]

http://washingtonindependent.com/81446/u-s-military-in-iraq-responds-to-wikileaks-releases-portions-of-internal-investigation

U.S. Military in Iraq Responds to Wikileaks, Releases Portions of Internal Investigation
By Spencer Ackerman 4/5/10 8:11 PM


After much of the day’s news was dominated by Wikileaks’ distribution of a graphic video purporting to show U.S. military personnel in Iraq in 2007 firing from a helicopter on Iraqi civilians in Baghdad, the U.S. military command in Iraq has released the following statement. It doesn’t deny the veracity of the video, but doesn’t confirm it, either, and instead offers up source material about what happened at the attack in question:

We are aware that several media outlets are airing footage depicting gunfire from a U.S. helicopter and claiming that this footage was recorded during an incident in 2007 in which two Reuters reporters were killed. At this time, we are working to verify the source of the video, its veracity, and when or where it was recorded. The incident presumably associated with this video was investigated in 2007, and the releasable portions of that investigation are available {at link}.

The link will take you to a U.S. Central Command webpage containing a plethora of internal inquiries in response to the apparent incident. I’m not at a place where I can go through them all immediately but will update as soon as possible.

[tekisui]

1. The US military is deflecting, trying to buy time.

No excuses for this one.

[babylonsister]

3. Huh? This came out today; they said they're looking into it, and

provided what's already available. That's not an excuse in my book. I'll give them a day or two; the military knows they're under a microscope now, which is good.

[tekisui]

4. It happened 3 years ago.

They have tried to suppress and cover this up. I have no faith in them.

[Marr]

27. lol.

Uh-huh.

[Poll_Blind]

5. I think I agree- though I didn't get past the user agreement for CENTCOM.

I'll wait for someone else to copy them. ;)

Since they haven't released anything on the FOIA request, and it's years after the incident took place, I don't see any investigation still being ongoing and any delay from this day forward (if not a lot before) is major stalling.

PB

[NJmaverick]

10. There were two investigations conducted and concluded

that's what I found after getting past the user agreement. Weapons were found at the scene as well as RPG rounds. There was ongoing combat going on in the area as well

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

11. The US Military conducted two separate investigations

[tekisui]

12. .

[MajorChode]

29. At that time, the military was under the command of W

I have absolutely no confidence in any military commanded by W in performing an objective investigation.

The biggest problem I have with all of this is the secrecy involved. The military didn't release the video despite repeated FOIA requests by Reuters. If they were justified in what happened, why not release the full investigation report? Why not release the video? Obviously they didn't want to release the video for fear of being embarrassed, but that's not an allowable exclusion under FOIA.

I'd like to see another investigation conducted by a military commanded by Obama and see if it produces the same results.

[Subdivisions]

58. 'We investigated ourselves and we found that we did nothing wrong.' n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

62. That's not what the reports say. n/t

[Pavulon]

20. They are carrying out orders from the Executive, and funded by the Legislative

please sent your bitch to the proper stop in the chain of command of civilian ownership of the wars..

[polly7]

2. CTV coverage here is also mentioning the internal investigation.

The Pentagon would not confirm the video's authenticity on the record, despite repeated requests from The Associated Press.

"At this time, we are working to verify the source of the video, its veracity, and when or where it was recorded," a statement from U.S. military headquarters in Iraq said late Monday.

The military also provided redacted copies of portions of its inquiry into the July 2007 incident, again without confirming that the incident described in those documents is the same one posted by Wikileaks.

According to a July 19 summary of the investigation, U.S. troops acted appropriately. Reuters employees were likely "intermixed among the insurgents" and difficult to distinguish because of their equipment, the document states.

"It is worth noting the fact that insurgent groups often video and photograph friendly activity and insurgent attacks against friendly forces for use in training videos and for use as propaganda to exploit or highlight their capabilities," the document concludes.

The incident has been reported before, but the video had not been released.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100405/baghdad_firefight_100405/20100405?hub=TopStoriesV2

[Bolo Boffin]

8. Hell, the video's authentic. The "official" papers have screenshots from it. n/t

[L0oniX]

6. Glad to see our 700+ billion a year being well spent.

:sarcasm:

[Bolo Boffin]

7. Sworn statements from the people in the helicopter.

Two helicopters as well.

They were participating in a bigger incident. They were called to the area because a team on the ground was taking small arms fire.

The investigators later determined that what the helicopter thought was an RPG coming around the corner was a camera.

And they definitely did not see the kids in the van. Because in a seperate incident later that day, they saw kids with a group of AIFs and withheld fire.

More to the story, just like I thought.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

16. There was no team on the ground near there. You saw the video.

[Bolo Boffin]

21. Actually, there was.

Strange that just because something doesn't appear on a video focused on one single spot, you say that it's not there. Absense of evidence...

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

32. No, actually there wasn't. It took quite a few minutes to get people to check out the carnage.

Meanwhile, it was fucking murder by video game players.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8095770

[KeepItReal]

33. Wrong. The Reuters camerman was taking pictues of US Vehicles.

From Reuters:



"There had been reports of clashes between U.S. forces and insurgents in the general vicinity but there was no fighting on the streets in which Noor-Eldeen and Chmagh were moving about.

There were other people in the street, including a number of men. It is believed that two or three of these men may have been carrying weapons, although it was clear from witness statements that they were not firing them nor were they held in a firing-ready position.

The men congregated on a corner and Chmagh and Noor-Eldeen chatted with them for a few moments. Noor-Eldeen looked around a corner to take a photograph from a distance of a U.S. Humvee vehicle several blocks away.

The Apache helicopter then opened fire, killing both Reuters men and nine others."

http://www.thebaron.info/namirnooreldeenandsaeedchmagh.html

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. Did you read what you posted?

"The men congregated on a corner and Chmagh and Noor-Eldeen chatted with them for a few moments. Noor-Eldeen looked around a corner to take a photograph from a distance of a U.S. Humvee vehicle several blocks away.

The Apache helicopter then opened fire, killing both Reuters men and nine others."

[Bolo Boffin]

34. The pictures the photographer took of the Hummer are at the OP website. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

37. The Hummer was several blocks away.

The men congregated on a corner and Chmagh and Noor-Eldeen chatted with them for a few moments. Noor-Eldeen looked around a corner to take a photograph from a distance of a U.S. Humvee vehicle several blocks away.

The Apache helicopter then opened fire, killing both Reuters men and nine others."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8094885&mesg_id=8096315

[Bolo Boffin]

45. It was there. The pictures of the Hummer are at the linked OP site.

Noor-Eldeen took those pictures, the helicopter mistook his action for an RPG aiming at the Hummer, and they got permission to engage.

Mistakes do happen. Innocent people get killed. That's what happened here.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

48. That photo was taken by a long telephoto lens 10 minutes before he was murdered

Reuters says they have examined the last photographs on two digital camera bodies that Noor-Elden was using. One body had a wide-angle lens, and the second body had a medium-length telephoto lens on it. The news service says the sequence of images, based on the cameras' internal clocks, show that he photographed a wide-angle lens shot from behind a window that has a bullet hole in it and two older women, dressed in black, are walking towards the window. Other pictures show what they believe is the aftermath of an earlier shooting incident. Then on the camera with the long lens, four frames of a U.S. Humvee at a crossroads. Ten minutes later, what Reuters thinks is the last picture taken by Noor-Eldeen while he's alive shows the top of someone's head as he appears to be falling to the ground or crouching as dust sprays off the top of a wall.
http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2007/07/reuters02.html

[Bolo Boffin]

49. So? I don't know what you think you're defending here.

The helicopter thought they saw someone taking aim at that Hummer with an RPG, someone associated with a group that they had already seen an RPG in.

It was a horrible, tragic mistake.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

51. The tragic mistake was that these joystick jockeys have lost all regard for human life and started

to make shit up about all the arms "they saw". They have to come back and live in a society that we live in. It makes me very nervous.

[Bolo Boffin]

53. Ah, so you're indulging a bias and hatred against the military

Well, then, you don't need the facts to do that, obviously. Carry on.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

57. Ah yes, the old hate the troops defense when certain things are.

indeed indefensible.

[Mojeoux]

17. Attacking People Rescuing the Wounded???

Is that Military SOP?

[Bolo Boffin]

22. And grabbing weapons. n/t

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hannah Bell]

19. The investigators later determined that what the helicopter thought was an RPG was a camera. That's

your "more"?

[Bolo Boffin]

23. That is true. Sitting in an office with time to make a more careful judgment

they determined it was a camera peeking around the side of the building. But that wasn't the only time an RPG was identified, and the investigators were not riding on a helicopter, looking for an insurgent team and ready to be shot out of the sky at any moment by anyone out of sight.

[Hannah Bell]

24. it was the only rpg in the scenario, mentioned several times. there was no rpg.

from the op:


"There had been reports of clashes between U.S. forces and insurgents in the general vicinity but there was no fighting on the streets in which Noor-Eldeen and Chmagh were moving about.

There were other people in the street, including a number of men. It is believed that two or three of these men may have been carrying weapons, although it was clear from witness statements that they were not firing them nor were they held in a firing-ready position.

The men congregated on a corner and Chmagh and Noor-Eldeen chatted with them for a few moments. Noor-Eldeen looked around a corner to take a photograph from a distance of a U.S. Humvee vehicle several blocks away.

The Apache helicopter then opened fire, killing both Reuters men and nine others."

[Bolo Boffin]

25. There were two RPG's besides the camera misidentified as one.

The pictures are in the report that's linked at the WI page.

[Hannah Bell]

26. you guys keep talking about this report; i am unable to access it, so why don't

you give a direct link or paste the details.

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there is no such information on the video record, & "in the area" is meaningless. the question is whether the people who were killed were in possession of any rpgs. and unless you're alleging the journalists and their entourage were double agents, there's no evidence they did.

[Bolo Boffin]

30. More direct link.

http://www2.centcom.mil/sites/foia/rr/CENTCOM%20Regulation%20CCR%2025210/Forms/AllItems.aspx?RootFolder=%2fsites%2ffoia%2frr%2fCENTCOM%20Regulation%20CCR%2025210%2fDeath%20of%20Reuters%20Journalists&FolderCTID=&View=%7B41BA1AAF-785A-481A-A630-12470AFCD6FD%7D

There's some weird DoD scare page right before you get to the actual folder where the information is.

[Hannah Bell]

31. which is why i don't want to go where the information supposedly is.

if they're actually releasing information to the public, there's no need to spy on whoever accesses it -- up to & including the codicil that they won't invade information about your counseling sessions.

i don't have any psychological sessions set up, but fuck that bullshit.

so why don't you just cut & paste the relevant pieces, since you're fearless.

[suffragette]

The military confiscated the cameras, so they had physical evidence they weren't RPG's

These were kept for days before being returned, so they also had on-the ground photos which contradicted their initial reports.
They were knowingly and purposefully engaging in a cover-up of a slaughter.

http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2007/07/reuters02.html

[Bolo Boffin]

46. The investigations identified the guy with the camera as a guy with a camera.

They also identify all of the weapons that the group was carrying in the video, the weapons that they recovered on scene.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

52. And the military never lies? I will repeat, for just two highly publicized cases...Pat Tilman

and Jessica Lynch.

[Bolo Boffin]

54. The military never tells the truth? n/t

[suffragette]

77. You wrote: "Sitting in an office with time to make a more careful judgment

they determined it was a camera peeking around the side of the building."

I responded that they had confiscated the cameras, so they actually had them on hand.

I see that my response didn't reference that post, so it might not have been clear that was the specific post to which I was responding.

The point I was making was that this wasn't any "judgment" call (at that point they knew these were cameras because they had them in their possession) and that they had both video and pictures showing there was no gunfight immediately preceding and triggering this incident and yet they consciously chose to misrepresent it in their initial reports. That misrepresentation is otherwise know as a cover-up.

[NJmaverick]

9. Weapons and RPG rounds were discovered at the scene

There were two investigations conducted by two different commands

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

39. And Pat Tilman and Jessica Lynch were war heroes.

[Bolo Boffin]

47. Actually, they were and are.

Pat's death and Jessica's capture were lied about, as was this incident.

But that doesn't change the fact that both were and are heroes, Jessica for the very least in coming clean about how she was captured.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

55. Oh stop your pimping. Pat Tilman's family are embarassed how his death was used

as Jessica has been with her incident.

[Bolo Boffin]

59. That doesn't change the fact that they were and are heroes.

Tillman's family is embarrassed and upset about how Pat's death was used, because he was a hero and wasn't ashamed of the truth.

Jessica is a hero to me precisely because she is embarrassed. Is simple human admiration something so evil and foul that you must besmirch it wherever you can?

Where the fuck do you get off saying that I'm pimping anything? The only thing I'm interested in is the truth. And what you and others are screaming about this video isn't the truth. You could get the facts. You could truly hold the government accountible. But, no, you just play into the hands of people who misuse these incidents by working yourselves up for things that aren't true and are demonstrably so.

[mike_c]

44. of course they were-- that's pretty much a guarantee, isn't it....

After all, everyone the U.S. military kills is an "insurgent," no?

[kenny blankenship]

50. Hey! Who you gonna believe - the Army, or your own lying eyes?

[gratuitous]

14. Mustn't be too hasty about a three year old incident

Our enemies will surely understand the military's need to "verify the source of the video, its veracity, and when or where it was recorded." No hurry. Take your time, boys. We'll all just wait patiently while you sort it out.

[NJmaverick]

36. There were two investigations already conducted

It confirmed weapons (including RPGs) were found at the scene and it made it know there was active combat going on in the area.

[gratuitous]

41. Really? An independent investigation by disinterested outside parties?

Or an internal military investigation, by the comrades of the same people who were pleading to blast the truck carrying away the wounded and laughing when they punched a hole in its windshield? Because if you're talking about the latter, color me skeptical.

[Subdivisions]

60. 'We investigated ourselves and we found that we did nothing wrong.' n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

63. That's not what the reports say. n/t

[mike_c]

70. there were WHITEWASHES conducted for the purpose of sweeping war crimes...

...under the carpet.

[PufPuf23]

15. The military lies - always has and always will.

The honor code is a joke in protecting their own except scapegoating grunts.

Think Colin Powell and initial My Lai cover-up (not to mention Powell and in front of the UN for Iraq).

Saddam's statue

Jessica Lynch story fraud

Pat Tillman

[alarimer]

18. I believe this sort of thing actually goes on all the time.

Military apologists would have us believe this is an "isolated incident" or that these are bad apples but I doubt that. Their training is designed to dehumanize "the enemy", whomever they might be. SOP.

[protocol rv]

28. Probably true

i suspect US soldiers are killing a lot of innocent civilians. They do so in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia, etc etc etc. Maybe what you need to do is take your soldiers home, and keep them there? They don't seem to do you much good.

[NJmaverick]

56. You seem to be ignoring the fact that this was a combat zone and

weapons were found

[Rex]

35. Guess covering up war crimes is hobby of the U.S. Military.

To bad they can't get out of the habit of commiting atrocities.

[kenny blankenship]

69. Some things you just *can't* trust to subcontractors.

No matter how much we respect and trust the good people of KBR and Halliburton, Dyncorp, and Blackwater/Xe, some sensitive military functions are still best handled "in house", and quietly with the curtains drawn.

[Soylent Brice]

40. *sigh*

[Echo In Light]

42. "Internal Investigation?"

[Subdivisions]

61. 'We investigated ourselves and we found that we did nothing wrong.' n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

64. That's not what the reports say. n/t

[Echo In Light]

78. That's about the size of it

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

65. For those saying it's already been "investigated".....

http://www.academickids.com/encyclopedia/index.php/My_Lai_Massacre

Cover-up

Initial investigations of the My Lai incident were undertaken by the 11th Light Infantry Brigade's Commanding Officer, Colonel Oran Henderson, under orders from Americal's Assistant Commanding Officer, Brigadier General Young. Henderson interviewed several of the soldiers involved in the incident, then issued a written report in late April claiming that approximately 20 civilians were inadvertently killed during the military operation in My Lai. The army at this time was still describing the event as a military victory resulting in the death of 128 of the enemy.

Six months later a young soldier of the 11th Light Infantry (The Butcher's Brigade) named Tom Glen, wrote a letter accusing the Americal division (and other entire units of the U.S. military, not just individuals) of routine brutality against Vietnamese civilians; the letter was detailed, its allegations horrifying, and its contents echoed complaints received from other soldiers. Colin Powell, then a young US Army Major, was charged with investigating the massacre. Powell wrote: "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." Later, Powell's refutation would be called an act of "white-washing" the news of the Massacre, and questions would continue to remain undisclosed to the public. On May 4, 2004, United States Secretary of State Colin L.Powell said to Larry King, "I mean, I was in a unit that was responsible for My Lai. I got there after My Lai happened. So, in war, these sorts of horrible things happen every now and again, but they are still to be deplored." <1> (http://www.state.gov/secretary/former/powell/remarks/32160.htm)

The carnage at My Lai might have gone unknown to history if not for another soldier, Ron Ridenhour, who, independent of Glen, sent a letter to President Nixon, the Pentagon, the State Department, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and numerous members of Congress. The copies of this letter were sent in March, 1969, a full year after the event. Most recipients of Ridenhour's letter ignored it, with the notable exception of Representative Morris Udall. Ridenhour learned about the events at My Lai secondhand, by talking to members of Charlie Company while he was still enlisted. Eventually, Calley was charged with several counts of premeditated murder in September 1969, and 25 other officers and enlisted men were later charged with related crimes. It was another two months before the American public learned about the massacre and trials.

Independent investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, after extensive conversations with Ridenhour, broke the My Lai story on November 12, 1969 and on November 20 Time, Life and Newsweek magazines all covered the story during November, and CBS televised an interview with Paul Meadlo. The Plain Dealer (Cleveland) published explicit photographs of dead villagers killed at My Lai. As is evident from comments made in a 1969 telephone conversation between National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger and Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird, revealed recently by the National Security Archive, the photos of the war crime were too shocking for senior officials to stage an effective cover-up. Secretary of Defense Laird is heard to say, There are so many kids just lying there; these pictures are authentic.

[Bolo Boffin]

66. Those of us saying it's already been investigated are doing so

to get people to at least look at it.

Comparing this incident to My Lai is outrageous. It's not even close to that atrocity. We have video of this incident, for Christ's sake. It is nothing like the events of My Lai.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

67. So, the numbers of the innocents killed is the difference?

The article I posted demonstrates the inclination of the military to cover up it's atrocities. Saying that it's been "investigated" by the military, rather than by unbiased investigators is what delayed the real investigation of My Lai, and IMO, the non-investigation of similar incidents in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

I find it interesting that the Pentagon tried to withhold the video from WikiLeaks. Don't you?

[Bolo Boffin]

68. No, the intent of the soldiers in both cases is very different.

And frankly the kangaroo court atmosphere around here is a lot more redolent of Calley than the soldiers in that video.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. In both cases, the soldiers fired on unarmed civilians and the military tried to cover it up.

As they have done in numerous cases before and after My Lai and the latest incident in Baghdad.

Your contention that the latest atrocity has been "investigated" by the military and found by the military "investigators" to be without fault sounds a lot more like PR than an "investigation".

Their "intent" was to kill, just as was the "intent" Calley and the soldiers under his command.

Furthermore, what was the "intent" of the Pentagon in trying to cover it up in both cases?

[Bolo Boffin]

72. Is there a reason you didn't reply to my post when answering it?

Because you know that replying to my answer alerts me to the fact that someone has. The way that you did it, it seems you were trying to get in the last word and pretend I didn't have an answer for you.

Regardless, your weaseling about the intent to kill is evident. What Calley and his men did was a complete breakdown of discipline, an intent to kill innocent civilians. That is not the case in the deaths of the Reuters journalists. The soldiers there did not know they were firing at innocents. They had every reason to believe they were firing at combatants. And the military discipline is evident all the way through the video.

But then again you have a point. Both Calley and this incident happened on the Earth. So they are 100% similar, right? :eyes: Of course not. There are vast differences in the two incidents and you know it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

73. Nope just posted in the wrong place.

Get over yourself. I'm not interested in getting the last word.

Your defense of the murders is as disgusting as the Pentagon's attempts to cover it up. They were not unaware that there were civilians among a group of walking men. They received permission to fire on them, though they weren't being fired on themselves. They then fired on the van because it was there to allegedly "clean up" the mess they had created though, again, nobody was firing at them.

As to the "intent to kill", I'm pretty sure that those guys doing the firing were not doing so to brighten the day of victims. What do you think their intent was? Invite them to dinner and a drink?

[Bolo Boffin]

74. So you made a mistake. Just like the soldiers. You're just as bad as them according to your logic.

See what I did there? I took your logic and I showed you why you're wrong. You can't make this another My Lai, because it's not the same. You want an Iraqi My Lai, go to Abu Ghraib. That was a complete breakdown of military discipline because of bullshit orders that resulted in atrocities. This is not that.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. Well, my mistake won't require burying anybody.

As I asked you before, is it the number of victims that make the difference? If anything, My Lai was more excusable. The soldiers there, at least had the lame rationalization that they had suffered casualties, that they had been fired on from the village, and they were "just following orders".

These jokers had only the "just following orders" defense that they manufactured by calling for permission.

And, again, why did the Pentagon strive to cover it up if it was justified? Just as they did with My Lai and a slough of other similar atrocities before and since.

[Bolo Boffin]

76. No, no, no, it's all the same - a mistake is a mistake. n/t