My friend wants me to

[chitty]

respond to this latest e-mail he sent me today.

Any thoughts?

Above all, liberalism is an ideology based on radical social engineering. Its ultimate goal is to transform America into a society characterized by economic collectivism, personal—and especially, sexual—liberation and multilateral globalism. To accomplish these goals, the left must fundamentally restructure the economy, the family unit, traditional bourgeois values, and even the nation itself.


This is why liberals ultimately rely on coercion to pass much of their agenda. They must raise taxes and propose new entitlement programs (like universal health care) to keep expanding the power of the state; they must push for homosexual marriage and abortion to keep undermining the nuclear family; they must expunge religion and the Ten Commandments from the public square to keep rolling back traditional morality; and they must insist on amnesty for illegal immigrants and subordinating foreign policy to the United Nations to keep subverting America’s national sovereignty and distinct cultural identity. Their favorite tools of coercion are usually judicial activism and bureaucratic decrees.

[lectrobyte]

1. with friends like that, who needs enemas? press "delete" and move on, life is too short as it is.

[Cha]

23. Enemas are better than this "friend".

x(

[trof]

47. Bingo! Enemas REMOVE crap.

:-)

[mnhtnbb]

2. You need a new friend who won't send you right wing crap and

expect you to spend your time responding.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. I have a nice, simple answer, perfect for this occasion:

"Dear Friend: That is a steamy pile of horseshit"

There. That should do nicely. ;-)

[Jim Sagle]

4. Tell him to fuck off, and be done with him.

[RoyGBiv]

5. No, no thoughts in that ...

Lots of paranoid rambling, but no thoughts.

[chitty]

6. All these are

great suggestions.

You know you have an extremely long, busy day at work, have something to eat, then relax and get on the computer to dink around and open some e-mails and BAM! You get an e-mail like this asking for "my opinion".

My brains too fried to respond coherently.

[IdaBriggs]

7. Your "friend" is an idiot.

Honestly, why waste your time? If you provide a letter from (insert deity of choice) disproving this poppycock, your "friend" still won't change their opinion because they "know" what they know.

I once made the mistake of attempting to discuss this stuff with someone who claims to be a conservative. I provided over FIFTY links to FACTS; they replied with an opinion page calling making fun of Kerry as a "flip-flopper." At the end of the day I stopped calling this person a friend -- somewhere in the discussion, I completely lost all respect for this person as a human being. (It was when he started saying that saying our soldiers weren't getting body armor when they were being supplied with Vietnam era flak jackets was just me being misleading / lying or something.)

The odds of your "friend" being someone who can be intellectually honest are highly unlikely. Save the energy for something more productive -- like, banging your head on a wall or something.

[Erika]

8. We pay taxes

Why shouldn't they be used for US?

[mitchum]

9. Tell him he's a tool and you're gonna continue fucking his wife

[karlrschneider]

13. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

I luv it
:rofl:

[roguevalley]

14. BWAHAHAHAHAAHA! God, Mitchum, you are a god to me now.

[chitty]

16. that's pretty

friggin' funny.

Thanks!

[SammyWinstonJack]

59. ..

:spray:

[roguevalley]

10. tell your friend liberals don't get defined by assholes. Tell him that

obviously, someone doesn't read history. If anything has been done for this country that is good and forward moving, a liberal did it. Conservatives want to live in the 'good old days' that never existed. Tell him that he needs to grow a brain and be a man. Tell him that the nuclear family is broken by ignorance, poverty and divorce. Ask him why it is that all the repug candidates are working on their third and much younger wife and all the dems are married to wife one? Ask him how it is that Bush is the one pushing the amnesty programs idea, how it is that he didn't take billions offered to us from other countries after Katrina and how it is that he feels that no one should tell him how to run a war, even though he is the reason Iraq is so fucked up. Ask him why the repug packed judiciary passes the laws he considers activist by following the Constitution. Check out the voting party affiliation and the appointees of most of our judges: repigs almost all. Ask him why he supports a party that doesn't believe they need to personally fight wars, only start them, only get tax cuts and never pay them and could give a rip if he personally lives or dies? Ask him how many scandals by repigs equal one blow job for a dem. Ask him why he hates the constitution, the troops and america by allowing a criminal cartel and their posse- the republican party- to destroy not just america but the world. Then tell him to go fuck himself and block him. You are much too nice a person to get crap like this from a pin head.

RV

[Berry Cool]

37. quoting roguevalley:

Ask him why it is that all the repug candidates are working on their third and much younger wife and all the dems are married to wife one?

Best not to ask him that question, actually. (Kucinich *cough* *cough* *cough*)

[knight_of_the_star]

60. Isn't the one he's got his first one though?

I mean its not like the whole example like Newt Gingrich or John McCain.

[WCGreen]

11. That isn't liberalism...

That is some warped version of perhaps the greatest Western political philosphy...

The Constitution was constructed by liberals who were deeply influenced by the Enlightenment and the belief that man progresses toward a more perfect union...

The Declaration is a very liberal document that talks about throwing off the shackles of a deeply conservative royalist regime...

It was liberalism that is at the root of equality for all men and women no matter what race color or creed...

It was liberalism that was behind the development of the free market system and it was liberalism that seeks to humanize the brutality of Supply and Demand...

Some would say the Jesus was a liberal and I would agree... He sought to throw off the burden which ingrown dogmatism disguised as tradition kept people from having a personal relationship with the spirit that is alive in all of us...

It is liberalism, the continued quest for a better life for all, that has kept terrorism from this developing within this country...

No, it is conservatism, the desire to always declare a victory no matter what the cost, the desire to get ahead by making sure others fall behind, the desire to, well conserve what is mine and keep it from others is what really is at the heart of our troubles today...

[deutsey]

43. Excellent...

:thumbsup:

[EnviroBat]

46. That has to be one of the best written reply's I've read in a long, long time...

[Orangepeel]

12. well, I think your friend is a fool.

what's the point of responding? you can't have a rational conversation with someone who sees the world in such cartoon terms.

[bemildred]

15. I think this person is a half-wit.

Probably a religious fundy half-wit, but you can't be sure from the text provided. Some of the "ideas" have a long history with the wingnut right in the USA, but they are sort of recast for recent events. The conflation of sexual-liberation with globalization is an example of that. It used to be the UN (still there I notice) and world government. One is tempted to ask if this person is concerned about conserving his precious bodily fluids.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

17. It's rambling and incoherent. Example: second paragraph, about "coercion" by liberals to

pass their agenda... but then he mentions religion and Ten Commandments in the public square, where Right Wingers have been the ones trying to "coerce" and force these elements into the public square.

It has no coherence, not really worth debating.

On edit: Your "friend" is really just saying "liberals bad, religion good" and trying to attach terms like coercion etc. that sound bad to liberals without making a coherent argument, and in fact bringing up examples that point out the opposite of their argument.

You can tell your friend that I said this.

[FloridaJudy]

26. Yeah, I'm doing my best to "coerce" people

To worship as they see fit, and marry the person they choose. Sounds awfully oppressive to me.:sarcasm:

[karlrschneider]

18. Tell him to bend over and enjoy it.

:D

[chitty]

19. Didn't

JFK have a great response to being a liberal?

[Warren DeMontague]

20. Send your, uh... friend these:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/jefferson.htm

And let us reflect that, having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and suffered, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of as bitter and bloody persecutions.... error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.... I deem the essential principles of our government.... Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; ... freedom of religion, freedom of the press, and freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected.
-- Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm

They believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion.

-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2005/11/26/01436/229

Their ultimate goal is to make the U.S. Constitution conform to a strict, literal interpretation of Biblical law. To do that involves a series of legal and social reforms that will move society toward their goal. Here is their blueprint: 1) Make the ten commandments the law of the land, 2) Strengthen patriarchically ordered families, 3) Close public schools - make parents totally responsible for the education of their children, 4) Reduce the role of government to the defense of property rights, 5) Require "tithes" to ecclesiastical agencies to provide welfare services, 6) Close prisons - reinstitute slavery as a form of punishment and require capital punishment for all of ancient Israel's capital offenses - including apostacy, blasphemy, incorrigibility in children, murder, rape, Sabbath breaking, sodomy, and witchcraft.

[Kiouni]

21. What's wrong with it?

I can't find anything I don't agree with. Except maybe the tax thing but I like the flat tax idea so maybe I should agree with all of it! Ha!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

24. So with issues like Ten Commandments, you think it's LIBERALS who are "coercing" rather than

Right Wingers who want to force this into U.S. public places in defiance of separation of church and state? You agree with that?

[uppityperson]

31. Are you serious? Do you believe these bits clipped from OP?

This is why liberals ultimately rely on coercion to pass much of their agenda. They must raise taxes and propose new entitlement programs
keep undermining the nuclear family;
keep rolling back traditional morality;
keep subverting America’s national sovereignty
Their favorite tools of coercion are usually judicial activism and bureaucratic decrees.

Are we libruls coercing by judicial activism and bureaucratic decrees the undermining of the nuclear family, rolling back of traditional moratily, subverting USAs soveriegnty? Are you series?

[Blue-Jay]

22. I totally thought this thread was going to be about having a threesome.

x(

[Orangepeel]

29. there you go with your sexual liberation and multilaterialism!

you dirty liberal, you! Next thing you know, you'll be coercing people into joining the UN and having health care!

[Cha]

25. "Must" "must" "must"..what's wilth

all this "must".

This "friend" of your's has no clue what Liberalism is.

Fucking high and mighty fascist might do good with big ol' dose of LIBERALISM..heh heh heh.

[Beausoleil]

62. I think you hit the nail on the head

Fascists and conservatives don't allow that other people do not think and act like them. That's why they equate liberalism to an authoritarian ideology; their own beliefs are tied to an authoritarian ideology so others' beliefs MUST be too. In order to accomplish our "goals", we MUST force people to see it our way. That's how conservatives do it, right?
They don't get the FUNDAMENTAL differences between left and right, to them it's just a matter of differing "goals". Thinking that the methods MUST be the same makes them more comfortable with their own authoritarian (and fundamentally undemocratic) beliefs.

[zalinda]

27. Because you want to be nice to your friend

let him pick what he wants out of this page http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/ShortFAQ.htm

This page will give him FAQ's into what liberalism is, without reading a huge article, which would probably tax his brain.

zalinda

[chitty]

28. Thanks

That's a pretty informative web page.

[uppityperson]

30. How about this?

Spend money on health care rather than funding illegal wars by putting our grandchildren into debt?

Doing the 10 Commandments rather than giving lip service to them, doing them rather than merely having them represented in models, treating others decently rather than lying, cheating, being power hungry egoists?

Allowing adults to marry other adults in stable relationships regardless of sexual orientation rather than encouraging affairs and pedophilia and prostitution?

Being part of the World rather than trying to "burn the bridges once we're here"?

Recognizing that USA's "cultural identity" comes from a melting pot rather than living in fear?

Placing judges on the court that will uphold the Constitution?

Yeah, I'll go with those liberals.

[Blashyrkh]

32. America’s...distinct cultural identity.

:rofl:

Ahhh that tickled me.

[Dumak]

33. Your friend

If you haven't mentioned to him that you are a liberal, then he is most likely trying to pre-empt your ability to identify yourself as one. It's a form of bullying, and I've seen this game played many times. Do yourself a favor, show some self-respect, and don't be afraid to identify yourself as a liberal (if that is what you are). Find some real friends.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Before you do I will recomend a book

read "What's the Matter with Kansas"

What yuor friend wrote is PURE backlash ideology, and for you to be able to answer you really need to undestsnd this

Been readying this book and been recomending it

The short version, Archie bunker is who many of these folks are... angry, and anti establishment in the old sense, and their poltiicos never deliver, part of the shtick

Oh and in their philosophy a liberal is a state of being, an incredible force of nature and anti american.

Oh never mind that much of their anger at Wall Street is redirected at this boogey man, instaed of... Wall Street.

But if you want to answer before you do

Ask:

Why is it that your heroes have gotten richer while you get poorer?

Why is it that your heroes promise to clean up the culture, yet they never do?

Why is it that your heroes tell you teh media is liberal... yet that same media refuses to cover the economic issues that affect you?

And I ould go on with the list

Oh and if you are a Liberal, be proud of it, after the last seven years backlash may become (I sure hope so) an endangered species

[Djinn]

35. A short sharp

fuck off would be the most appropriate response

[Morrisons Ghost]

36. So because

I support gay marriage and am pro-choice I am trying to undermine the family? My wife and 3 sons will not be pleased:eyes: MG

[Solly Mack]

38. recommend he remove his head from his ass & open a book

read and research

[Tennessee Gal]

39. JFK quote

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label “Liberal?” If by “Liberal” they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer’s dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of “Liberal.” But if by a “Liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “Liberal,” then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.”

But first, I would like to say what I understand the word “Liberal” to mean and explain in the process why I consider myself to be a “Liberal,” and what it means in the presidential election of 1960.

In short, having set forth my view — I hope for all time — two nights ago in Houston, on the proper relationship between church and state, I want to take the opportunity to set forth my views on the proper relationship between the state and the citizen. This is my political credo:

I believe in human dignity as the source of national purpose, in human liberty as the source of national action, in the human heart as the source of national compassion, and in the human mind as the source of our invention and our ideas. It is, I believe, the faith in our fellow citizens as individuals and as people that lies at the heart of the liberal faith. For liberalism is not so much a party creed or set of fixed platform promises as it is an attitude of mind and heart, a faith in man’s ability through the experiences of his reason and judgment to increase for himself and his fellow men the amount of justice and freedom and brotherhood which all human life deserves.

I believe also in the United States of America, in the promise that it contains and has contained throughout our history of producing a society so abundant and creative and so free and responsible that it cannot only fulfill the aspirations of its citizens, but serve equally well as a beacon for all mankind. I do not believe in a superstate. I see no magic in tax dollars which are sent to Washington and then returned. I abhor the waste and incompetence of large-scale federal bureaucracies in this administration as well as in others. I do not favor state compulsion when voluntary individual effort can do the job and do it well. But I believe in a government which acts, which exercises its full powers and full responsibilities. Government is an art and a precious obligation; and when it has a job to do, I believe it should do it. And this requires not only great ends but that we propose concrete means of achieving them.

Our responsibility is not discharged by announcement of virtuous ends. Our responsibility is to achieve these objectives with social invention, with political skill, and executive vigor. I believe for these reasons that liberalism is our best and only hope in the world today. For the liberal society is a free society, and it is at the same time and for that reason a strong society. Its strength is drawn from the will of free people committed to great ends and peacefully striving to meet them. Only liberalism, in short, can repair our national power, restore our national purpose, and liberate our national energies. And the only basic issue in the 1960 campaign is whether our government will fall in a conservative rut and die there, or whether we will move ahead in the liberal spirit of daring, of breaking new ground, of doing in our generation what Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman and Adlai Stevenson did in their time of influence and responsibility.

Our liberalism has its roots in our diverse origins. Most of us are descended from that segment of the American population which was once called an immigrant minority. Today, along with our children and grandchildren, we do not feel minor. We feel proud of our origins and we are not second to any group in our sense of national purpose. For many years New York represented the new frontier to all those who came from the ends of the earth to find new opportunity and new freedom, generations of men and women who fled from the despotism of the czars, the horrors of the Nazis, the tyranny of hunger, who came here to the new frontier in the State of New York. These men and women, a living cross section of American history, indeed, a cross section of the entire world’s history of pain and hope, made of this city not only a new world of opportunity, but a new world of the spirit as well.

[deutsey]

42. Excellent...send this to your "friend", chitty.

[H2O Man]

40. Don't bother.

Anyone who believes that type of thing is so fucking stupid that you shouldn't waste your time.

[Dora]

52. OMG

I've never seen you use the F-bomb.:wow:

:wandersoffshakinghead:

[EstimatedProphet]

41. I can refute the enire thing in 2 words:

"Prove it."

[July]

57. I like it!

Don't you love how conservatives claim to know our minds and goals?

I'm going to use those two words -- great response!

[EstimatedProphet]

61. Thank you

It really does annoy me that the people who write these emails don't know the difference between facts and ad hominem attacks. Their entire line of argument usually breaks down to "liebrulz are bad, so if something is bad then liebrulz must support it."

[regularguy]

44. This can't be answered.

Not only is this email not right, it doesn't even rise to the level of wrong. Don't start a discussion by going through this dirty door

[cosmik debris]

45. simple substitutions

Above all, conservatism is an ideology based on radical social engineering. Its ultimate goal is to transform America into a society characterized by economic elitism, personal—and especially, sexual—domination and unilateral imperialism.

Now see, was that so hard?

[SmokingJacket]

48. Tell him that Jesus was a liberal.

Long hair, sandals, love-thy-neighbor, rich man/eye of the needle, etc.

Liberals are just emulating Jesus!

Plus, were we right about the Iraq war, or not? Were we right about the environment, or not?

[Warren DeMontague]

49. Ask your "friend" why he finds human sexuality, in particular, so threatening. nt

[AlCzervik]

50. your friend sounds like he's really fun at parties.

[Marie26]

51. A "friend's email"

Would be a pretty good way to post anti-liberal junk on DU w/o getting deleted, wouldn't it? I mean, hypothetically?

[IChing]

54. A "friend's email" just by the definition of the word "friend" escapes logic.

Unless the OP has no understanding of the word


Friend:

friend (fr?nd)
n.
A person whom one knows, likes, and trusts.
A person whom one knows; an acquaintance.
A person with whom one is allied in a struggle or cause; a comrade.
One who supports, sympathizes with, or patronizes a group, cause, or movement: friends of the clean air movement.

http://www.answers.com/topic/friend

[chitty]

58. Actually I have

known the guy for about 40 years. Maybe more.

I'm 49 and I'll bet we met when I was around 8 or 9.

[verse18]

53. Your 'friend' is a fool.

A complete idiot who makes shit up in the face of the facts. People like this have serious personality problems. Cut this 'friend' loose. You'll be better off.

[Tyler Durden]

55. I don't have friends that send me email like that.

Frankly, I have to eat WAY too much horseshit just LIVING in the good ol' U S of A these days to have "friends" who can actually hold such merde in their skulls.

[July]

56. Dear "friend":

I am a liberal. You don't know what you are talking about.

Signed,

Someone Who Doesn't Need to Make Shit Up to Show What's Wrong With Conservative "Thinking."

[annabanana]

63. Here you go:

Above all, unregulated capitalism is an ideology based on radical social engineering. Its ultimate goal is to transform America into a society characterized by economic exceptionalism, sexual—repression and multilateral enslavement. To accomplish these goals, the right must fundamentally structure the economy, the family unit, traditional bourgeois values, and even the nation itself to serve it's ends.


This is why corporations ultimately rely on coercion to pass much of their agenda. They must privatize assets and nationalize liabilities to keep expanding the power of the multinational; they must push divisive wedge issues like denying rights for homosexuals and denying a woman's right to control her own body to enforce the Patriarchal and authoritarian model of the nuclear family; they must enforce a particular religious allegiance and push their version of the Ten Commandments in the public square to keep rolling back rational thought; and they must insist on extreme punishment for economic refugees and subordinate the well being of the world to the supremacy of the International Oligarchy . Their favorite tool of coercion is usually a police state.

[chitty]

65. Nice comeback..........

Tit for tat.

Thanks banana!

[joshcryer]

64. *Capitalism* is "economic collectivism"!

What is this guy on about?

[Touchdown]

66. Wow! How did you find out about us?

Well, since you already know, I might as well fess up. Yep, liberals are truly that coercive and anti-individuality. Entitlement programs as you know is a very effective way to control the people and undermine traditional values. You sure got us there. And yes, economic collectivism is our ultimate goal, and we not only want to, but WILL take your money and give it to some black woman on food stamps driving a Cadillac so she doesn't have to work. Geez, you got us to a tee! Everybody knows that freedom to worship is collectivism and worshipping a God whose Icon is a device of torture and symbolically canibalizing the savior and driking his blood is the epitome if individuality.

Here's the problem though. You can't stop us. We are too powerful. You don't honestly think that we'd let Fox News on TV if they were any threat to how powerful and international we really are, do you? You don't really think that some 100 million Americans can stop a world wide liberal agenda after we've already infiltrated your country do you?

Now for the worse news, and I'm also sorry to tell you this, but now that you know, we have to do something about it. I've notified the Moonbat-phone and they've sent the Political correctacar (it's a hybrid Honda) to pick you up. They should be there in about 15 minutes. Don't try to run, because our red star T-shirts are bullet proof and we WILL find you. Best thing for you is to just give up your gun and submit to our superior ideology, lest you get yourself more hurt than you will be in half an hour. You can of course avoid the pain of coerced re-education if you turn yourself in to the nearest lesbian book store, synagogue, or vegetarian grocer, then we will go lightly on you when the bread lines come. Oh' and by the way, we've already got Russian Cosmonauts on Mars.