School Bans Mother from Ceremony over Vocal Criticism of Son's Detention

[The Straight Story]

School Bans Mother from Ceremony over Vocal Criticism of Son's Detention


PHILADELPHIA, Pa. -- For a parent, a child's high school graduation can be one of the proudest moments of their life, but one Pennsylvania mother may have to miss out on that special day with her son all because of her use of the word "Nazi."

Maurine Callmann said she was told she would not be allowed to attend the Kutztown Area High School graduation because of a heated meeting she had with administrators regarding detention.

"I wanna go to my son's graduation. I want to sit there with a smile," Maurine told NBC Philadelphia Wednesday.

The problems began for the mom when her son, Austin, was given an hour of detention for taking a picture of a friend in the cafeteria September 2009. Austin claims he was allowed to take pictures around the school for a digital photography class, but nonetheless was disciplined.

After finding out about the detention, Maurine said she grabbed the school's student handbook to read up on their policy for camera use on school grounds.

The handbook clearly states: "Text messaging, taking photos/videos, and other uses of the cell phone during the school day are strictly prohibited," but there's no mention about the use of digital cameras or camcorders or their use for school projects.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/strange/news-article.aspx?storyid=154154&catid=82

[LiberalFighter]

1. School idiots need to be removed. Why are there so many of them?

[Lance_Boyle]

2. The handbook clearly states that your precious angel broke the rules, so you barge in

and call school officials "Nazis."

Have fun not attending that graduation ceremony, screwball.

[The Straight Story]

3. Yeah, and the rules in Germany were clear as well, so no one should have complained about them (nt)

[Lance_Boyle]

5. You go straight for the Godwin? Too bad the idiot in the original story beat you to it.

Helicopter Mom Maurine gets to miss the graduation because she acted stupidly. It's not the end of the world, and maybe she'll think twice about being an idiotic three-toed fuckwad in the future.

[The Straight Story]

9. And you run to the godwin yourself here? Seriously?

The 'Nazi' thing was already there. She knew the rules, but that does not make the rules right. You seem to think if a rule exists, it should be followed and it is the fault of those who do not follow it when they get punished by said stupid rule.

It excuses the actions of those in power because they defined the rules ahead of time. Yeah. It was no stretch to map that back to the Nazi's as they were the group already mentioned.

But hey, dismiss things with a simple 'rule' like Godwin's instead of actually trying to discuss.

Easy out for you.

[sui generis]

4. oh yes, must not question the rules.

The crime is defying authority.

Jesus are you sure you're on the right site?

Schools have too much power to punish parents for defying authority and not enough power to punish parents for not raising their kids right before they get to school.

Seriously, a school district can "fine" a parent in many places? What the fuck? Try me.

[Lance_Boyle]

6. She didn't 'question the rules,' she verbally assaulted school officials.

She acted like a moronic child and in return (surpise!) she is being treated like a moronic child. Temper, temper, Helicopter Mom Maurine. Go sit in corner with dunce cap.

[Occulus]

11. The administrators ARE the policy?

""I wanted to know why in detention do these kids have to sit for an hour or two with their hands completely folded in front of him," Maurine said. "To me that was like being in a Nazi concentration camp."

Maurine's comparison upset administrators to the point where they banned her from school property and had her cited for disorderly conduct. "

Ah. So she was assaulting the policy, and not the administrators themselves.

[sui generis]

14. I repeat, the punishment is for defying authority.

I'm not good with it even if she was an idiot. School officials can be petty tyrants just like anyone else.

When you deal with someone who is frustrated, address the cause of frustration instead of trying to school their behavior. Anything else is irrelevant, a power play, and otherwise just stupid. That's my criticism AND judgement.

No the real thing is she used the N word, and in this case I'll wager neither party really understands what the fuck a Nazi was, making use of the term or punishment for using the term even more irrelevant.

I have noticed that teachers and educators often treat everyone like children, whether they are or not, and DARE you to defy them, and that happens right here on DU as often as not.

[uppityperson]

41. No, she didn't. She said the POLICY was like "being in a Nazi concentration camp."

She did not say the school officials were nazis. Read the article before insulting the person.

[hatesthegop]

57. Even if she did insult the assholes

they are public officials..that's part of their god damn job..tough shit!!!

[hatesthegop]

55. Bullshit

While I agree as a parent I would have made my child serve the detention with out a fuss and chalk it up to life experience...I also feel that the district is acting in a nazi like fashion and sanctioning her for speech..she didn't threaten anyone...

[One_Life_To_Give]

8. Did the School or a Court Fine Mom for Disorderly conduct?

In my neck of the woods. A $50 fine for disorderly conduct is imposed by a municipal court. And would mean something more than just calling administrators, a bunch of Nazis.

Details are sparse all the way around in this story.

[Xithras]

13. Rules can be questioned, but it should be done appropriately.

You don't argue with the cop on the side of the road that the 35MPH limit he's ticketing you in should really be a 45 zone. He didn't set the rule, he can't change the rule, and if he ignores it, he could get fired if OTHER people complain.

The policy was set by the district. If the school officials were bound by the rule, she should have taken her complaint to the board and asked to have the rules clarified, and the detention expunged from his record. Verbally attacking school administrators and calling them Nazi's is pointless, counterproductive, and infantile.

Screaming and making a scene because you disagree with something is NOT the same thing as "protest".

[sui generis]

15. administrators aren't cops and she isn't a lawyer and shouldn't require one.

they overreacted and are as "childish" as the very behavior they're decrying.

Reacting to being called a Nazi is equally infantile. Nobody was the bigger person in this fight.

[Xithras]

52. I've had security drag parents out of my office.

Parents have zero rights to abuse a teacheror administrator, verbally or physically. When I talk to parents (which isn't often, as I'm a college instructor and generally dissuade parental involvement entirely), I have a simple rule. We can disagree, but the moment you raise your voice or get insulting, we're done. No second chances. I'll see you next semester if you can learn to behave.

There's a chain of command. I write the grades and set the expectations. You are free to discuss them with me, and I'm always willing to discuss them, but I'm under no obligation to actually change my mind. If you think I should, you don't yell, you don't insult, and you don't disparage...you talk to my dean. The moment you raise your voice to me, you're banned from my classroom and office for the semester. My only requirement is civility, and that requirement is non-negotiable.

Dealing with high school administrators is no different. If you can't be civil, you get ejected. Nobody wants to deal with a hothead who might have a gun in his trunk.

[hatesthegop]

59. As a public official for 21 years

I had to take all sorts of verbal abuse (if they were quiet and didn't threaten financial or physical harm) other than saying they were going to get me fired. People can talk very quietly and calling some one a nazi is their right...I know a pobation officer who has to let his clients call him a fucker because the court siad so..as long as they did't get to loud to disrupt the peace.

[hatesthegop]

60. As a public official for 21 years

I had to take all sorts of verbal abuse (if they were quiet and didn't threaten financial or physical harm) other than saying they were going to get me fired. People can talk very quietly and calling some one a nazi is their right...I know a pobation officer who has to let his clients call him a fucker because the court siad so..as long as they did't get to loud to disrupt the peace.

[sui generis]

62. "learn to behave"

that says it all - I HATE that phrase since it implies one generally grade school standard for civility and is patronizing.

I get that people behave poorly, but one of the things I've learned in the real world of business (intentionally inflammatory, sort of) is that having hard and fast rules about dealing with verbally combative people does nothing to address the underlying issue, and only heightens the frustration all the way around.

Yes, I get ejecting someone for not heeding a fair warning if they're not listening and escalating, but I also rely on my communication skills and the ability to deal with adversarial situations and people when necessary, to understand a root cause rather than have a pissing contest and playing some ace card.

I will say that yelling and insulting are unproductive as opening strategy in dealing with a grievance, but understand that some people need to get worked up to communicate, and give them some latitude and an opportunity to calm down too. YOU know that people who believe they're being treated unfairly, right or wrong, just think that the latest "insult" to fairness, being banned for having a potty mouth, merely reiterates their world view that life is inherently unfair - and it escalates from there. Not at all saying they are "right" in that observation, just understanding principles of iterating frustration.

In my observation "I hear what you're saying. This was my rationale for that decision. This is why I can't change my decision, or this is what needs to happen to amend the situation, or these are your next steps if you still disagree " . . . those are all tools that offer choices and insight. You also know the first line of defense with a parent is that they will believe their kid's story until proven otherwise, and even when you point out that you've been inherently fair and even-handed they still have a head of adrenaline and steam to try to dispatch SOMEWHERE in the moment. I'm willing to give them a moment and earn their respect for being bigger.

You sound reasonably fair from your other comments - but there are also petty tyrants out there who just dare someone to challenge their tiny sphere of authority, especially in a situation where most of the time the people you are seeing in that situation are there to resolve an issue or discover where to assign blame.

What would you say your actual "eject" rate is? 2 in 10? 2 in 100? That's also a telling number, either way.

[Occulus]

10. Based on the sentence from the handbook in question, it most certainly does not state that.

A "cell phone" is not a "digital camera", but can have one.

Conversely, a "digital camera" is not a "cell phone", but can be incorporated into one.

Words mean things. The specific wording of the handbook does not prohibit the use of a digital camera during school days, and only an Authoritarian could reasonably imagine otherwise. Further, it sounds as if the student was taking a digital photography class endorsed and operated by the school, during school hours. To then turn around and discipline him for performing course work during school hours is, simply put, insane. It's even worse to support such insanity.

[riderinthestorm]

18. I read this the same way Occulus. The handbook is purposefully vague

Cell phones do have digital cameras. The boy was in a photography class. For some kids and families (like mine), our cell phones are our camera.

The story may not have all the facts - perhaps the boy had access to a digital camera for the class but declined to use it?

Sounds like the mom went batshit when the boy was confronted and that's not cool either so I understand the double whammy but if the school was at fault first, they should be prepared to deal with batshit parents calling them out.

[Lance_Boyle]

22. what part of "taking photos/videos.. during the school day are strictly prohibited"

is vague? The restriction is not limited by the phrase "and other uses of the cell phone." It prohibits taking photos/videos during the school day. Applicable equally to any device that can take photos or videos.

[riderinthestorm]

25. Actually, the wording of the handbook leads me to believe it is just about cell phones

That's how I read it. Obviously that's how the boy, his mom and Occulus read it too. The boy states (and I know, boys can lie) the digital class assignment allowed him to take the photos.

You can imply that the handbook may mean any other video/picture taking device but if it's not stated in the handbook, the school is not being fair imho.

[ManiacJoe]

27. You are misreading the quoted rule.

The restriction is very much limited by the phrase "and other uses of the cell phone" according to the rules of standard English.

[Lance_Boyle]

30. Now share with us your interpretation of the Second Amendment... n/t

[ManiacJoe]

48. Are you suggesting that its introductory clause

leaves you confused there, too? I will grant you that the willy-nilly use of commas back then did not help folks.

A more modern phrasing of the 2nd Amendment might be:
Whereas the security of the state requires individuals skillful in use of firearms, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

[guruoo]

35. That's "Text messaging, taking photos/videos, and other uses of the cell phone..."

Any reasonable person with a 3ed grade knowlege of sentence structure would
conclude that this applies only to cell phones.

[Dora]

37. In fact, it does limit it to use of the cell phone.

The way the sentence is constructed, it clearly states that cell phone use of ANY FORM including is prohibited.

It does not prohibit the use of digital cameras.

[ManiacJoe]

24. You seem to have info not found in the article.

Care to show the rule in the handbook that was broken?

[hatesthegop]

54. Uh? How about a little thing called free speech?

[tammywammy]

7. I think there's more than her just saying "Nazi."

She was banned from the school and given a citation for disorderly conduct.

[nosmokes]

12. zero tolerance is for those w/ zero thinking skills n/t

[NeedleCast]

16. So this mom thinks that sitting in detention for an hour or two is like a nazi concentration camp

Really, that's the comparison she's going to go with?

Analogy fail.

Somehow having to sit without talking for an hour with your hands folded in your lap in front of you doesn't seem to be quite as severe as, say, being tortured, used for human experiments, raped, starved and worked to death, or simply thrown in a room and gassed to death.

I'd ban her from the graduation just for being a fucking idiot.

"I wanted to know why in detention do these kids have to sit for an hour or two with their hands completely folded in front of him," Maurine said. "To me that was like being in a Nazi concentration camp."

[tammywammy]

19. Honestly, that's the funny part

She thought detention = concentration camp. Seriously? She thought that was an accurate comparision.

I think I would have just looked at her in disgust and told her to read up on some history before making such an idiotic statement.

[NeedleCast]

20. Which is why I tend to side with the administration this time around

There are plenty of zero tolerance toolbags in school administrations but in this case, the nature of the comparison leads me to believe that this is some sort of helicopter mom who's precious little snowflake has never done anything wrong. I don't have much in the way of facts from this article to back that up but the people in this thread who seem to think the administration is in the wrong here are doing so simply because they are the administartion.

I'm about as anti-authoritarian as they come but I understand why a school needs an adiminstration and that said administration is allowed to impose rules.

Sometimes people need to pay attention to the comparisions they make. Like the dude on DU last week who compared Arizona to Somalia because of the continued losening of gun regulations in AZ.

[tammywammy]

21. I'll just say, we're only hearing her side of the story

I tend to think a yelling match that's loud enough to disturb classes warrants her being barred from school grounds.

The district is still going over her request to attend graduation, it's not a done deal she won't be allowed to go. I just wanna hand her a couple of history books so next time she won't bring out a dumbass argument like detention = concentration camps. I hope her son isn't that stupid.

[NeedleCast]

23. Oh I agree totally

I've seen this sort of parent - and it's usually their children who are the behavior problems - at my high school in the past. They were the same parents starting fist-fights in the stands at football games or getting banned from other sports events because their kid got called for a foul in a basketball game and they lost control.

[sui generis]

26. fail on use of the phrase fail by adults.

that's the first thing.

Most people who say somebody is being a nazi refer to totalitarianism, not concentration camps.

So I routinely call the yoga muffin top brigade "yoga nazis" and don't give a shit who's feelings it hurts.

Everyone grow the fuck up. Please. Damn good thing this happened to her and not me because I'm a damn sight meaner than a yoga nazi.

[NeedleCast]

31. Reading Fail

Use of common internet jargon aside, the mom in question suggested that detention was

"I wanted to know why in detention do these kids have to sit for an hour or two with their hands completely folded in front of him," Maurine said. "To me that was like being in a Nazi concentration camp."

This is a quote, from the mom, which is in the article. So in this case, she did, specifically, compare detention to nazi concentration camps.

Reading the whole article, for the win!

[tammywammy]

32. She said "Nazi concentration camps."

"I wanted to know why in detention do these kids have to sit for an hour or two with their hands completely folded in front of him," Maurine said. "To me that was like being in a Nazi concentration camp."
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/weird/Berks-Co-Mom-in-Hot-Water-After-Nazi-Comment-89641152.html


She's a moron that let her anger get in the way of what I hope is better judgment. I don't think she should be banned from the graduation and that's not settled anyways, the district hasn't said yes or no.

[sui generis]

36. okay I missed that part.

Not reading fail, but failure to read.

Just the same, I agree with her about it being ridiculous, in spirit.

Forcing immobility IS corporal punishment. Apparently we think striking a child is worse for some unfathomable reason.

I don't blame her for being angry, regardless of her poor judgement and effective communication skills.

[tammywammy]

39. Another article I read

Said the argument was so loud that it disrupted other classes and she was speeding through the parking lot when she left.

I don't think she should be banned from the graduation and hopefully the District will agree with me on that point. A better form of punishment would have been for her to write a 10 page (double spaced) paper comparing and contrasting concentration camps and detention. :)

She could have conducted herself better and gotten the point across that she felt that just sitting there was a poor form of detention as well.

[NeedleCast]

40. What part of the article suggests "forced imomobility?"

In what set or rules, laws, or other legal area is sitting still for an hour or two with your hands folded in your lap considered corporal punishment? You're really going to compare sitting still and being quite with something like swats with a paddle?

That's funny because I consider sitting still with my hands in my lap kinda nice on the occasions I'm able to do some quite meditation by myself.

Do you think she's angry because her son got detention, or because of the way that detention is enforced?

If we, as a society, have reached the point where being "forced" to sit still for an hour is corporal punishment then we truly are so sadly pampered that I have to question the future...

[sui generis]

43. Yes, it is.

How is sitting quietly with your hands in lap different than standing in corner with nose on chalkboard? For an hour?

I agree, I like sitting quietly.

If my child takes a picture at a school where the rules are don't, detention better damn well have a scholastic function OTHER than physical training. Got it? It's not pampering, it's relevance, for me.

And yes, sitting in an attitudinal position was probably conceived of by a, what was I going to say, YOGA NAZI.

[NeedleCast]

47. I disagree

I wouldn't consider standing still for an hour (with or without nose against chalkboard) corporal punishment either. If a student was made to do it in class, then you could make the argument (and I would probably agree) that it's singling the child out for punishment which I still don't think is corporal but would agree is unnecessarily embarrassing for the child.

I'd even agree that I'd rather have my child studying in detention than doing nothing but I don't make the policy and the fact that they're "forced" to do nothing for an hour is not corporal punishment by any standard I've ever seen but again, I'll invite you to provide me with some positively peer reviewed publication, some set of standards, some law or rule that suggests otherwise.

Our society (that is, American society) is hugely pampered compared to the majority of the rest of the world. The fact that anyone considers sitting quietly for an hour as corporal punishment just reinforces that point to me. The children are not being restrained or otherwise held in an uncomfortable position. They're just sitting.

[sui generis]

61. I'm certainly not pampered

And I grew up with real corporal punishment in military schools overseas.

But above all I am not a blind policy adherent - policy does not exist cut from whole cloth without a rationale. Detention should not be about anything other than scholastic activity. I can easily imagine a yoga nazi designing a detention activity that is centered on staring at one's navel and becoming one with the lint, however if my child did something that violated a school rule, the "punishment" needs to be appropriate. It's not about pampering, and certainly not about supplying you with peer reviewed, ergo, authority certified justification for staring at one's navel.

I'll go one further - if the issue involved taking a picture with a camera phone, then the school should detain the camera, not the child, until the parent can make it in for a conversation.

Schools need to be OUT of the business of being surrogate parents and start demanding that parents step into the breach they've left. If a school wants to reiterate the reason for a rule, then it needs to address the violation of the rule, not just exert a blanket authority and a blanket punishment that does nothing to educate a child to WANT to adhere to a school rule.

There is a reason that detention supervisors don't work for NASA. I also find it ridiculous that on a "liberal" discussion board there is any support for authoritarian policy.

I'm quite capable of formulating an reasonable opinion without referring to a "positively peer reviewed publication, some set of standards, some law or rule that suggests otherwise", which just indicates to me a willingness to cede responsibility for thinking.

[uppityperson]

42. Banning her for making a stupid comparison seems harsh though.

I agree, the comparison is stupid, but if school officials banned everyone who ever made a stupid comparison, well, there'd be a whole lot less people at any school events.

[tammywammy]

45. Plus there's the fact that her "discussion" was loud enough to disturb classes

And she then was speeding out of the parking lot when she left. That's how she got a disorderly conduct citation.

I'm sure it was a combination of all of these actions that led to her being banned from the campus, not just comparing detention to a concentration camp.

edited to add: Also the district hasn't made a decision on if she can attend graduation or not.

[uppityperson]

46. I agree. eom

[NeedleCast]

49. I don't believe that's what she was banned for

It seems she was banned for entering school grounds and making an argument so loudly that it disturbed several classes in the general vicinity and that she was also seen "speeding off" school grounds, which is mentioned in another article. No proof of that of course but if it's true and were I a school administrator I'd ban her simply for safety reasons.

I was being a bit facetious when I suggested that she be banned for making a stupid comparison. I have no problem with her being banned for causing a disturbance and (possibly) endangering students.

[Winterblues]

17. Civil discourse in a civil society seems to have vanished

She behaves just the same as a Republican..

[sui generis]

28. yes and so do we liberal school marms.

That's a nonsense observation. If regulating civility is what school boards are for, then they're doing the wrong job.

[Winterblues]

33. Civility should not have to be regulated

ESPECIALLY in a school...You are suggesting that Liberal school marms should be as uncivil as tea baggers?????? Sorry I can think of a better America..

[sui generis]

38. no, I'm suggesting liberal school marms are every bit as

judgmental and kneejerk as a tea bagger. Edited to add "can be" to modify that assertion.

forced immobility is corporal punishment. apparently only spanking makes the radar for some - so nobody in that administration should be lecturing anyone else on civility.

[dorkulon]

29. Why would it be against the rules to take pictures? /nt

[tammywammy]

34. Disruption?

Students also take photos of exams to foward to other students as a form of cheating.

[dorkulon]

51. Then it should be against the rules to take pictures of tests.

This was in the cafeteria. Detention for taking a picture of your friend? I don't blame the mother a bit.

[tammywammy]

53. We're only hearing her side of the argument

If he had permission from being in a digital photography class then you'd think that teacher would have stood up against his detention. But who knows?

I do blame the mother for letting her anger get away with what I hope is better judgment. The District is still going over her request to attend graduation, she hasn't been formally given notice that she can or cannot attend it.

[Dappleganger]

44. I'll bet her son was embarrassed as hell.

My son sure would be, even if he was in the right he would D I E if his mom went to school to pitch a fit over a measly detention.

Jesus H Christ, all of this over a detention??? Now if that affected his grades, that would be different but it doesn't so she is wrong to pitch a fit.

Life isn't always fair and the sooner kids learn that it will kick them in the groin then run away laughing, the better. In high school (especially a senior) they need to handle those small things on their own even if they have to take a small lump or two (and a detention is a very SMALL lump).

JMHO, mom with four kids (three teens and a 12 yr. old).

[orleans]

50. the handbook was specific for cell phone usage, the kid was taking

a photography class, the kid said he was "allowed to take pictures around the school for a digital photography class, but nonetheless was disciplined," the mother has apologized, she has paid the fine, she has stayed away from the school.

what the fuck is wrong with these school admins? seems to me the kid shouldn't have been punished to begin with and they are making a big ta-do over this just to distract from their own fuck-up.

what a bunch of immature idiots running the school! apology not accepted! we'll never forgive you! and we are glad you're going to miss your child's graduation! because we are such assholes!!!

on edit: i wouldn't miss my daughter's graduation. i hope she gets a lawyer--it's a fucking public school. (she made a stupid comparison to concentration camps but pays taxes and has every right to see her kid graduate.)

[Odin2005]

56. Good. A bit OT, but it's parents like this that yell at the school for punishing their bully child.

[seabeyond]

58. kid broke the rule. had appropraite punishment. mother misbehaved.....

consequences.

maybe part of the problem is mothers inability to teach son about consequences