"Tiger Woods: Worse than Tony Soprano"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

MONTREAL – First of all, let me say quite clearly that I am not a fan of Tiger Woods. Never have been, never will be.


I recognize that he can hit a golf ball quite well, for what that’s worth. Lance Armstrong can ride a bike. Barry Bonds can hit a baseball. LeBron James can dunk a basketball.


That doesn’t make any of them heroes. Matter of fact, they’re all about as far from being heroes as you can get.


Tiger Woods is a man whose life is built around greed and a ruthless, monomaniacal obsession with winning. No wonder he’s obsessed with acquiring mistresses. The man has always had everything he ever wanted – who is going to tell him no?


When I read about Woods, all I see is stories about when he’s going to return to the tour, how he’s going to rehab his image (as though it’s all about image and nothing else) why he’s likely to come back better than ever.


No one mentions that this was one twisted, greedy human being from the get-go. Tiger Woods is what happens when you turn your child into a machine. Pity his father, Earl Woods, is no longer around to see the destruction he has wrought.

...


Tiger Woods is a great golfer, whatever that is worth. He is not a great man, by any stretch of the imagination. Woods doesn’t begin to measure up to the athletes who were also great humans: Jackie Robinson, Jim Thorpe, Bill Russell, Babe Didrickson, Muhammad Ali, Jesse Owens, Rocket Richard. They had to fight real hatred and prejudice. They suffered real hurt.


http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/Tiger+Woods+Worse+than+Tony+Soprano/2363482/story.html

DSB's note: I never liked Tiger Woods since his father said he would be as great as Muhammad Ali. No athlete will ever be as great as Ali when you factor in his influence on culture, his nation and the world. The fact that he beat people up for a living almost became incidental to who he is and was.

[trumad]

1. The writer is a douchebag...

I guess he never heard of the Tiger Woods Foundation which has raised millions since 96.

So Tiger cheated on his wife---sought help---and is now doing his beat to become a better man.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. He Compares Him To Jordan Which Is Apt

The same Michael Jordan who refused to campaign for Harvey Gant against the racist Jesse Helms because "Republicans buy shoes too." He's decrying Woods' total lack of social awareness:

"Tiger Woods is a great golfer, whatever that is worth. He is not a great man, by any stretch of the imagination. Woods doesn’t begin to measure up to the athletes who were also great humans: Jackie Robinson, Jim Thorpe, Bill Russell, Babe Didrickson, Muhammad Ali, Jesse Owens, Rocket Richard. They had to fight real hatred and prejudice. They suffered real hurt."

[KharmaTrain]

6. The Similarity WIth Jordan Is About His Gambling and Womanizing

That got swept under the rug by the NBA with that "retirement" that was actually a two year suspension due to MJ's heavy gambling (rumors still persist he bet on games he played in). Also, as been hinted by some of Tiger's good friends, MJ was one who would invite Tiger to join him on his late night jaunts. For the most part Jordan has been apolitical, which is fine...anyone who decides to "vote like Mike" is surely an uneducated voter.

Overall, I have little opinion on Eldrick. I've long thought the "role model" crap is the sign of weak parenting or overhype by a corporate machine that equates "model" with the amount of product that can be sold. For those who want him to succede and forgive for his indiscretions, more power to them...or those who don't like him and want to keep beating this thing into the ground (and buy all the tell-alls that are coming out) more power to them as well. I wish our world's problems were only about who Tiger boofed.

Cheers...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. It's Not The Infidelity.

Unfortunately " uber successful" men are all too often solicited. It's the difference between the private man and the public man and the duplicity employed in the presentation of the public man.

[KharmaTrain]

20. Well Said

They've long said that money and power are a tremendous aphrodisiac. We see way too often that it's too intoxicating and the corporate media just loves to hand wring over a person's morality or milk it when they know it will draw ratings. You are right...it's not the infidelity as much as the circus it created. Also that he's not sorry about what he did, but that he got caught. Bottom line is his personal life is of none of my concern and what he does professionally is wonderful but has no affect on my every day life. Those who obsess do so to further an agenda.

Cheers...

[Kalyke]

56. Um.. yeah... it's the infidelity.

Don't make commitments and promises you don't intend to keep. If you can't say "NO!" to the solicitations, then don't marry someone and ruin his/her life and the lives of any children you have with that person!

How fucking hard is that to comprehend?

[blueamy66]

57. It's very hard for some people.

I don't get it either.

It's not about being a public hero....it's about being a man and a husband and a father.

My Dad didn't make millions, but he was a hero....a real hero.

[Kalyke]

61. Seems easy to me, too.

I am no prude... far from it. Tiger could have all the sex, liaisons and one-night stands he wanted IF HE WASN'T MARRIED AND HADN'T PROMISED TO BE FAITHFUL. Why should Elin and their children suffer for his selfishness?

And I'm glad you grew up with a hero. You understand what it means to stand behind your vows. :hug:

[blueamy66]

63. Thank you.

I like the unsung heroes a bit more than the others....

[JonLP24]

8. MJ

I know he's gambled but you're the first to bring up the assertion that the retirement was really a suspension and that he may have bet on games.

I wouldn't say he is apolitical. Maybe not publicly but he is with his wallet. Donated over $15,000 for Obama in both the Presidential campaign and his US Senate campaign. Gave money to Bill Bradley and Bernard Gantt in the past as well.

[sendero]

9. Him donating $15,000....

... is about like me donating $5. Do the math.

I agree with the OP article, 100%.

[JonLP24]

11. I was addressing two things

The assertion that the retirement was a suspension. And that he was apolitical which I pointed out he donates to Dems consistently. I don't care if it's a lot or a little.

[sendero]

16. I doubt that the retirement.

.... was a suspension because as far as I know his behavior violated no rules of the professional organizations he is a member of.

I just think the deification of athletes is absurd, and of this particular athlete ridiculous. He can hit a ball, that is all. Nothing else about him even rises to average.

[JonLP24]

17. I don't disagree with that

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. The Author Did A Good Job Of Identifying The Greats

Jackie Robinson, Jim Thorpe, Bill Russell, Babe Didrickson, Muhammad Ali, Jesse Owens, Rocket Richard. They had to fight real hatred and prejudice. They suffered real hurt.

I would add Martina Navratilova.

[wolfgangmo]

68. and ...

Billy Jean King.

Being a hockey fan I would like to add Wayne Gretzky to the list. He actually does charity work (as opposed to making tax deductable donations or setting up foundations to "raise" money while simultaniously employing family and syncophants and providing him with a tax shelter. Besides he's a decent guy ( he used to come in for coffee and a bran muffin every morning at a coffee shop I ran in Edmonton decades ago) and family man.

I'll get off my soap box after I add that I don't worship Gretzky but I liked watching him play. Worshipping an athlete is nuts.




edited for really bad spelling and a few irrelevant words

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. I Thought The Author's Thesis Was Unassailable

You can be a great athlete without being a great man. To suggest Tiger is a great man is laughable.

Oh, and every celebrity has a foundation. It's de rigueur

[JonLP24]

13. I wasn't saying either was great man

I don't know either one of them personally so I can't tell you one way or the other.

[Captain Hilts]

45. Having a foundation is a tax dodge. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Well- There's No Way MJ Could Have Ignored Obama

As for Bill Bradley he did that at the behest of his former coach, Phil Jackson, who was a teammate of Bradley.

He did infamously say during Gant's first senate run that he wouldn't campaign against Helms because "Republicans buy sneakers too."

Jordan is arguably the greatest basketball player ever but he's not a great man.

I think that was the author's point about Tiger; a point that's being lost in the discussion.

[Captain Hilts]

46. The pressure for prominent/wealthy blacks to support Obama was HUGE. I know some

folks that really got their arms twisted.

I'll NEVER forgive Jordan for sitting on his hands the last time Helms ran.

[KharmaTrain]

18. The Suspension Was A Cover-Up

It was well known among the beat writers who covered him at the time of his gambling problem and that the NBA feared that if his true gambling were known it would destroy the league, thus a quiet deal was worked out were MJ would play baseball, clean up his act and hopefully the scandal would blow over. It wasn't his gambling in itself that was the problem (he's surely not the only NBA player who will drop thousands of dollars at a casino or on the golf course) but there was proof that he had bet on his own games (supposedly on his team, not against). The PR mess was averted and two years later Jordan came back to a triumphant return. He never has answered questions about his suspension, nor have the NBA mucky mucks.

The poster was making a point that Jordan didn't campaign for Harvey Gant (not sure that would have been enough), not about the money he gave. I don't think I've ever seen/heard Jordan give an endorsement unless there was a check attached to it.

Cheers...

[taterguy]

22. Helms only got 52.5% of the vote in 1990

You don't think the greatest pitchman of all-time could have swung 2.5% of the people in NC?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Ha

I forgot Bear Bryant. Bear Bryant was a legendary coach; a hero to Alabamans, and by all accounts was a racially tolerant man. How different would the course of history have been in that state if he had used his immense prestige to decry the racism that existed there.

[KharmaTrain]

31. Honestly, No

Just look at all the endorsements John Kerry got in '04...there was the musicians tour and many sports celebrities speaking out for him. I don't think these kind of endorsement move many votes at all...more to rally those who already are voting for the candidate. IRC the election it ended up along racial lines...not sure if MJ's pitches would do much for the "good ole boys" who sure don't mind watching him dunk a ball but sure wouldn't vote for someone he endorses.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. I Think Bear Would Have Helped In Alabama.

Could Jordan have moved votes?

That's an interesting question. I do know some of the Helms loving good ole boys loved (their) Michael Jordan.

[KharmaTrain]

42. Call Me A Cynic...

I'm still amazed President Obama carried NC in '08...shows how far this state has come. However, we're talking '92 here (I think) and Helms had quite a machine up and running in that state...a lot of us were following that race closely. Didn't Dean Smith once come out for a candidate that ran against Helms? You'd think he'd have a bit more influence on the "good old boys".

Sadly the racist divide has reared its ugly head in the past two years and I think we're seeing in some that their stereotypes and hatred rise above any "respect"...that only lasts as long as he keeps winning. I do think it'd be an interesting study, and I'm sure if we poked around, there is one out there, about how an endorsement affects the way people vote.

Cheers...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. The Irony Is That They Loved Jordan But Still Voted For Helms

I think President Obama is going to find much harder sledding in NC in 012. Ditto for FL and VA. (SIGH)

[KharmaTrain]

52. Keep Hoping For A Teabagger Revolt...

I've long predicted, even before the tea baggers (gotta do a DU search), that the political winds were blowing the GOOP into third party territory again. The Paulbots were a symbol that were ignored during '08 but are still out there now joined by LaRouchies and helped by Faux Noise...all to take control of the GOOP. Even though it's still too early to do much more than speculate, but the '12 GOOP primaries could be even more divisive than '08. If Mittens comes out as being the "front runner" it's not gonna go over well with the Palinistas...we're going to need lots of popcorn while that one plays out. And I'll go out on a limb (or put on the swami hat) and say that if a Palin or whomever is the wingnut darling in the primaries doesn't win the nomination, we'll see the third party push...while if she does win the nomination, the moderates will sit out the election.

Democrats have their work cut out...the biggest priority now is to maintain majorities in both houses. Democrats won in '06 & '08 more due to rushpublican corruption than on their own merits. Now it's time to get some positive legislation...and build towards a more progressive caucus and agenda. Yeah, I am a Pollyanna.

:hi:

[taterguy]

95. A few corrections

The Helms / Gantt race was in 1990, not 1992.

Helms had a "machine" but he rarely won in a landslide. He was always vulnerable.

Dean Smith consistently endorses Democrats and there are some whose victories were largely the result of Smith's support (Chapel Hill mayor Howard Lee, 4th District Congressman David Price).

But Dean is no Jordan, especially at the peak of Jordan's career. In 1990 Jordan was selling everything, and doing a damn good job of it. When did you ever see an ad featuring Dean Smith? He's not the most likable guy. He's got a big nose and he talks funny. Besides, less than half the state pulls for UNC. They pull for State of any of the other schools in NC. But Jordan was transcendent.

The 1990 race was decided by Get Out the Vote efforts and turn-out. Jordan's money and influence could have turned the tide. I don't think comparisons with John Kerry are fair since Gantt was a better campaigner. At his rallies he inspired people, just not quite enough people.

It had to be the shoes, or lack thereof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abr_LU822rQ

[JonLP24]

23. I'm aware of his gambling

I'm even aware of him gambling in a casino before a Knicks game in the playoffs of that year. What I haven't seen is proof that he bet on a game he was playing in. Also I haven't seen any proof of any deal worked out either. If it's true it's convenient that he would retire two months after his father died and use that as a loss of motivation. I'm not saying it isn't true, I just never seen proof of either of those assertions which I never seen before.

[KharmaTrain]

29. You Never Will...

I trust the sources I hear about this...people who covered him for years. It wasn't just one person and was a big story in the Chicago sports media in the days and weeks following his "retirement". The murder of his father was used as the cover story, but do you really believe that the loss was so devestating he'd stay away from the game he and his father both loved for so long? It's doubtful we'll ever see proof as the league made sure to keep a tight lid on the story. Remember, this was also in the wake of the Pete Rose fiasco that many felt had hurt baseball's reputation. Had MJ been forced to retire for life the questions would have howled louder and done a lot of damage. In the old sports adage "no harm no foul".

[JonLP24]

32. Well then

It's tough for me to take your word for it based on no evidence. Watching a lot of court room shows on TruTV does that to me. :)

I can't say what I would believe. I probably wouldn't feel like doing hardly anything if I lost a loved one especially tragically. I know after my divorce I didn't feel like seeing anyone for quite some time and I barely have two friends left here in this city. Also he said he did the baseball stint in honor of his dad which was his favorite game and his father envisioned him as a baseball player.

[KharmaTrain]

40. Take It As You Will

It's a long time ago now and I'm one who like links and proof as well, but in this case, there aren't any...just the words of some very trusted people I've known over the years...several who were some of MJ's biggest fans and still are. Jerry Reinsdorf was very protective of him...arranging the baseball deal with Birmingham and then brough him back right before the playoffs, when he could milk it into a positive spin not a negative one.

Again, I am just relaying what I had heard...and never really cared about his or anyone elses' personal life. This includes gambling and especially infidelity. This no way diminishes his accomplishments as a player and that's all of his life I ever cared to pay attention to...and I imagine, just like Tiger, many others feel the same way.

[Captain Hilts]

44. Jordan REFUSED to endorse Harvey Gant who ran against Jesse Helms. Unforgivable. nt

[trumad]

33. Never said Tiger was a great man.

I just took thought the writer was not very truthful about Tigers charitable giving. His foundation has raised millions for kids, etc.

[kstewart33]

49. Sorry, but the guy is one cheating, lying, narcissistic pig.

Who conned millions for millions with his 'family man' image.

He's back to it - making money off his own sex scandal (see his latest Nike ad).

The Masters? Here's hoping he shanks every shot.

[Kalyke]

55. The writer is absolutely correct.

And, if you were Elin, would you be saying, "so?"?

Nope.

The only reason I care about this "douche-bag" (Cheetah) is because the media has gone on and on and on about him. Young men look up to him for inspiration and could now, very well think it's OK to make promises of fidelity and then torch them like so much "Wood." It's not "poor parenting," as suggested above. Face reality, folks... teenage boys and young men don't consider their parents worthy of much, but sports heroes are "gods." It doesn't matter how many hours you wiped their butts, taught them lessons, read to them, fed them and doted on their accomplishments: to a teenager (male or female), parents are pariahs.

I hope Elin takes him for nearly everything he owns/makes in a divorce. Maybe then Tiger and all the young men who admire him will learn it's not right to break promises and that you can't do it without consequences.

Better man, my big toe. Pssshhh. :eyes:

Oh - and big fucking whoop about his foundation. Hell, the Bush and Reagan families have foundations and they're nothing but smug, greedy bastards.

(Edited to add point about parenting)

[wolfgangmo]

69. +1

"Oh - and big fucking whoop about his foundation. Hell, the Bush and Reagan families have foundations and they're nothing but smug, greedy bastards. "

[DemocratSinceBirth]

77. It's Not The Serial Infidelity. It's The Hypocrisy

We were spoon fed this image of Tiger the family man. We all have human failing but Tiger made a sport of his. Beside the hypocrisy he showed tremendous disrespect for his wife and children.

Your point about young men is spot on. Polls indicate they rte the most supportive of Tiger. I hope he hasn't made serial adultery cool.

[wolfgangmo]

66. Freudian slip award.

[Ganja Ninja]

2. You'd think from reading this he was a serial killer.

"greed and a ruthless, monomaniacal obsession with winning" :wtf: What is he a hedge fund manager?

[Solomon]

25. LOL That's what I see too. "Wish Earl was still here

to see the destructiveness"?! Damn. Destructiveness? Whew. The op should get a grip.

[madrchsod]

3. other than his family who gives a shit who tiger screwed....

tiger is still the best golfer in the world and will be until someone proves to be better. pro golf will still make billions along with their sponsors.

anyone who thinks these guys are supposed to walk on water should get over their hero worship problem.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. It's not the infidelity. It's the duplicity. He held himself out as this great family man.

“No man, for any considerable period, can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which one is true.”

-Nsthaniel Hawthorne

And one can be great at their profession without being a great man or a woman. That was the author's overarching point.

Also, I do remember when Tiger had the opportunity to criticize Augusta's discriminatory policies and demurred.

[tularetom]

14. it's not a "pity" that "Earl Woods is not around to see the destruction he has wrought"

He's the one who made Tiger what he is today. He carefully controlled and managed every aspect of his son's life as he grew up and molded him into an adult obsessed with a single goal. And Earl did a fantastic job of it too. In the process he deprived Tiger of a normal childhood. Every spare moment of the kid's life was spent on the golf course and in the process he missed out on the things the rest of us guys did during our formative years. Such as trying to have sex with the girls we would meet. He never had a date in high school. Because his father wouldn't let him. It's no wonder he has some strange ideas about sex. He really didn't learn a lot about it until he was an adult.

Remember, his dad had Tiger on the Johnny Carson show at about age four, demonstrating his ability to hit a golf ball. And it only got worse.

I'm really not blaming Tiger a whole lot for his behavior. IMO he's only trying to relive his high school years, fifteen years too late.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Earl Woods Reminds Me Of Todd Marinovich's Dad

Except Marinovich was a bust.

[The Old Creak]

60. I agree

people who never sowed their wild oats can, and often do, get into some really weird shit:crazy:

[bullwinkle428]

62. Tiger picked up much of his attitude towards women from Earl as well -

Earl dumped his first wife for Kultida (Tiger's mom) when he was serving in Asia as a Green Beret, and dumped Kultida not long after Tiger "blew up" on the golf scene. Not hard to see where the "disposable" mindset comes from...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. Sigh.

[CBGLuthier]

26. You dislike a man because of something his father said?

Wow, way to pre-judge someone's whole life. I hope my daddy never offended anyone so I don't have to be hated by strangers.

This may be one of the worst, most self-important pieces I have ever read. Calling him worse than a murdering asshole is pretty much over the fucking top. What a douchebag this "writer" is.

[JonLP24]

27. I saw that too

I thought to myself you might as well hate me then because of who my father was or said in the past. A lot worse than what Tiger's dad said.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. I Am Sure You Are A Good Person And Your Family Loves You

But if your father said you would be greater than Muhammad Ali I would take umbrage.

It was the context. It wasn't a quoute in the "my son or daughter will become president one day." context but a quote in the context of when Tiger was already making a name for himself in golf.

[JonLP24]

38. If my father

said I would be greater than Ali then he's an idiot for saying that. Nothing to do with me. Also it depends on what he meant. If he meant in terms of being the most recognizable and successful athlete than it's possible. If he meant it as being a better human being combined with athletic achievements than he is an idiot. Nothing to hold a grudge over Tiger imo.

In contrast to my father when I told him his former Rep. Marilyn Musgrave was pushing an amendment to federally ban gay marriage he said, "Good. That behavior is disgusting." That was like 6 or 7 years ago and I haven't spoken to him since.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. Well

You can not being to imagine how much it galls me to see this athlete or that athlete compared to the great Muhammad Ali. You could fit those athletes in a telephone booth. And Tiger never did anything to separate himself from those comments.

[H2O Man]

36. I have no opinion

on Tiger Woods, nor any desire to hear anything about him. However, I share the outrage regarding his father's comment. Let me add some context: I favor "free speech." Very few things offend me. I liked when Beatle John made the "more popular than Christ" statement, cheeky as it might have sounded.

However, Muhammad Ali is off limits. No one has the right -- civil, religious, or otherwise -- to compare themselves, their son, or any other athlete from the past or future to The Champ. As human beings, we need to have some standards of decency.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. That Stuck In My Proverbial Craw

[H2O Man]

47. It's just wrong.

Ali was/is so much more than the greatest athlete of all-time.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. Now That You Are Outraged

His dad also compared him to Mandela and Gandhi!

[H2O Man]

51. Mandela

was a fair amateur boxer in his youth. I don't think Gandhi ever boxed at all.

There is an interesting interview with Chad Dawson in this month's edition of The Ring. Chad's father used to box, and the interviewer asked him if his father had ever wanted to train Chad. Dawson gives a pretty accurate analysis of why fathers should not be the top trainer of their sons. It has nothing to do with the physical issues, but rather, is entirely based upon the psychological dynamics. I think the Tiger Woods case shows that the same holds true in golf.

[wolfgangmo]

71. Ghandi did box.

Hell did you hear about the rope a dope he did with the Brits in India. He just stayed on the ropes until they swung themselves out and then, voila, democracy.

[fishwax]

73. yes, it's a good reason to take umbrage at Earl Woods --

not a good reason to dislike Tiger, though

[Iggo]

34. It's okay, though, because he's a great golfer.

Why can't you people see that?

[Gwendolyn]

37. Oh the DRAMA! This too is worse than the Sopranos, but par for the course for Jack Todd.

People in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones. If ever there was a petulant man-child given to throwing things, that would be Jack. Both the employer Jack as well as the emotional roller coaster disaster personal friend Jack. Dry wall, elevator doors, inanimate objects around him have never been safe from temper tantrum Todd. If ever there lives and breathes a man with huge Daddy issues look no further than the author of this most arrogant, dismissive piece. And he does do arrogant rilly, rilly well. If ever there was born a womanizing, misogynist adulterer, Todd's your man. Soon as I saw the byline, I had the biggest laugh of the week. Thanks for that! :)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Tiger Woods at male-only Augusta National

Tiger Woods' decision to return to golf at the Masters is, ironically enough, shedding new light on an old story: the lack of women members at Augusta National Golf Club.

As you might recall, Augusta National brought in its first African-American male member, Ron Townsend, in 1990. This was done after pressure was placed on another Southern club, Shoal Creek, to admit a black man before hosting the 1990 PGA Championship.

But women? No way, not in 1990, not in 2002 (when Martha Burk read a column I wrote and sent a letter to then-Augusta chairman Hootie Johnson on the issue) and not in 2010. Ironically, one of the reasons Augusta has said it hasn't taken in a female member is because it won't cave to outside pressure, when it did exactly that with a black male member in the aftermath of Shoal Creek.

Augusta would rather not have its shameful record on women discussed again, but Tiger's recent history with women has given new life to the old topic. There were a couple of interesting references the past few days in national columns:

This from Filip Bondy's column in the New York Daily News:

"Tiger Woods' choice of clubs includes his trustiest irony. Woods has decided to launch his comeback at Augusta National - home of storied, institutionalized sexism - while at the same time seeking forgiveness for his gallivanting, womanizing ways."

And here's the ending of Bill Plaschke's column in the Los Angeles Times:

"Then again, maybe the Augusta National nobles deserve this. After all these years of excluding women, their club is about to be stolen by a guy running from them."

A few years ago, I wrote a line or two about the women membership controversy at Augusta that just might work today as well:

Pull up a lawn chair. This is going to get good.



http://content.usatoday.com/communities/christinebrennan/post/2010/03/tiger-woods-at-male-only-augusta-national/1

[Kalyke]

58. I'd venture to say he made this his debut back there because there are no women.

Women might actually take umbrage and throw his skanky, cheating ass off the green, at most, or throw heavy and/or sharp objects at him, at best.

[frylock]

75. he made his debut there because augusta is an incredibly controlled environment..

no chance that tiger will be heckled there. say what you will about kobe, but at least that guy went out and faced the hostile crowds.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

90. Name some professional male golfers who have condemned male-only Augusta.

Jack Nicklaus? Bobby Jones? Arnold Palmer? I don't keep up with golf, and have no idea. Shouldn't all of them, not just Tiger, be expected to speak out against Augusta, "the home of storied, institutionalized sexism"?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. We Want Our Celbrities To Be More Than Celebrities

Fine. They don't have to be. But don't say they are great men or women. They are just great at what they choose to do.

[Brewman_Jax]

53. Waste of space

Said the writer, "First of all, let me say quite clearly that I am not a fan of Tiger Woods. Never have been, never will be." Anything else he has to say on the subject is bullshit. :thumbsdown:

[JonLP24]

54. I agree n/t

[wolfgangmo]

72. How is it BS?

This is not an article about Tiger or about golf so much as it is about hero worship and the effect that has on us and the "hero's" we choose to worship. I guess I don't understand your point. Could you explain it or expand upon your idea please?

[Brewman_Jax]

74. Not about Tiger?

the article is very much about Tiger and the writer's clear dislike of him. He may have alluded to some other great sports figures, but that in no way mitigates the writer's bad feelings towards Tiger. Was there a particular question you had?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

82. Yeah- Why Doesn't He Condemn Augusta's Exclusion Of Women?

~

[Brewman_Jax]

94. Where are the other voices of condemnation?

[Dr.Phool]

59. I don't care how many people he slept with.

But hiring Ari Fleischer is unforgivable.

[closeupready]

64. He is an unfaithful husband, doesn't use condoms in sex with porn stars and escorts,

I mean, regardless of the fact that everyone involved was engaging in consensual unprotected sex with people not their marital partners, the bottom line is this guy is bad news, period.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

65. Not that I give a shit about this whole rich famous good looking "athlete" fucks around (shocker).

But what a weird article. Didn't Ali cheat on his wifes? Didn't Joe Frazier give Ali money when he was barred from boxing? Then Ali turns around and says the most hurtful things. Sure you can argue he wanted to sell tickets. But the way he demeaned Frazier (who took it quite personally) is not what a "great human being" does. Ali has always been one of my favorite athletes and I respect his outspokenness and incredible charisma. Yes Ali is the greatest but he also did some fucked up shit. This article is just dumb. The comparison makes no sense.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. Ali Isn't Celebrated For His Fidelity

He's celebrated because he was willing to risk his livelihood, his career, and his freedom when he refused to be inducted into the U.S. Armed Forces.

As for Frazier, Ali has apologized ad infintum and ad nauseum. It wean't Frazier's fault but he was embraced at the time by the forces of reaction that hated Ali and wanted to see him destroyed.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

81. So what? That's the point. Everybody does shitty things. I don't know why people

get so invested in these things. If Woods apologizes ad infinitum for whatever it is that he's done. Will it be OK then?

I understand perfectly well what made Ali become the icon he became. But it's still a stupid comparison. How old is this Woods guy? He has all the time in the world to become a great humanitarian or an even bigger douche. Who knows. The author seems to be taking this whole thing pretty damn personal. He's a fucking celebrity acting, well like most celebrities. People like Ali are the exception and good on him and others like him.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. Tiger Is 34

By 34 Ali had refused to be inducted into the United States Army, and for that he had his passport taken away, and could not be licensed anywhere in America to fight from the ages of 26- 29 ,losing his peak boxing years. He than made a triumphant return from exile in 1970 which culminated in his defeat of the heretofore invincible George Foreman.

The author's point is that Tiger was and is a great athlete but athletes like Jackie Robinson, Bill Russell, and Babe Didrickson were great athletes who did great things outside sports.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

85. I guess. Although I would

put athlete in " " for golfers. :hide:

[Renew Deal]

67. Barry Bonds can hit a baseball when he's juiced up like a like a pickle

He doesn't belong in the same sentence as Lebron.

[frylock]

76. barry bonds can hit the ball FARTHER when he's juiced up like a pickle..

but that stuff doesn't enhance your hand/eye coordination.

[Dreamer Tatum]

79. Barry Bonds was a top 10 all-time player without the juice

Which is why it's such a shame in his case. He got jealous of the home run attention, pure and simple, and he ruined
his reputation.

[Arkana]

70. The writer starts by sliming all golfers and finishes by slandering a dead man.

Yeah, THIS is a real credible read.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

78. And He No More Slanders All Golfers Than He Does Slander All Bicyclist, Basketball Players,

&Baseball Players

Do you really want to discuss the character of Tiger Woods' father. I'll just say his serial adultery was learned behhavior and leave it at that.

[CakeGrrl]

83. A big-time hater who can get his opinion published. Big whoop.

I don't see Tiger up there trying to hold himself to "I'm a great human being" standards.

I think people like this are railing about something larger than Tiger's transgressions. I think they're long sick of (or more to the point, resentful of) his fame and fortune and not only really want to see him knocked way off his pedestal, but subsequently run over by something.

Tiger has cheated. Bill Clinton cheated. John Edwards cheated and got a kid out of wedlock to boot. Sandra Bullock's husband cheated. So have a whole bunch of others who have been caught, and I'm sure there are a crapload yet to be discovered and those who will just continue to get away with it under the radar.

On balance, it's between him and his wife. Does it disgust me enough to be entertained by the circus? Nope. I'll be checking in on how he does at the Masters. It's more amusing to hear people worked into a tizzy over his indiscretions as if he cheated on THEM.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. "Tiger has cheated. Bill Clinton cheated. John Edwards cheated and got a kid out of wedlock to boot"

Out of the three only one didn't held himself out as devoted fsmily man and father and that's why most of us were willing to forgive his trangressions.

[CakeGrrl]

89. What's for YOU to forgive in ANY of these instances?

That's up to their wives.

Bill Clinton does not get a "pass" from me because he gave the Republicans the ammo they needed to subject this whole country to that impeachment travesty and its aftermath. It was just fucking irresponsible given the office he held.

John Edwards could have done some similar damage had he ascended to the nomination or beyond.

Tiger? Not really impacting the well-being of this nation so much. Because of that, this isn't a big deal for me, because he isn't MY spouse of the father of my kids. That's for the Woods family to deal with.

All he owes me is an entertaining golf game. He does not hold sway over my moral compass.

And if you're implying that Bill Clinton never purported to be an upstanding family man, I submit that to a degree, any presidential candidate who presents their family on the campaign trail implicity purports to be so.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

91. He Doesn't Need My Forgiveness. He Bores Me. One Dimensional People Bore Me,

But I am happy to see anybody whose carefully constructed image that is at odds with his or her public life blow up in his or her face or as Hawthorne so eloquently put it "No man, for any considerable period, can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be true

[WorseBeforeBetter]

93. "All he owes me is an entertaining golf game. He does not hold sway over my moral compass."

A-fucking-men. Women, whatever.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

86. As if this dead horse hasn't been beaten enough.

I never looked at Tiger Woods as more than anything than an excellent golfer...the same as any other athlete who excels at his/her sport. People, and especially parents, need to re-evaluate who they're holding up as role models.

As we've heard ad nauseam, yes, he can't keep it in his pants, but there's a reason he "has always had everything he ever wanted" -- he worked for it.

[closeupready]

88. that is so irresponsible of you.

:mad: He established a foundation to benefit children. Don't you dare sit there and say 'whatever'.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

92. I'll sit here and say whatever I damn well please.

Yes, Tiger fucked up royally, but how does it follow that "the children" will no longer benefit from his foundation? It doesn't. "The children" could learn from this, if their parents are grounded in reality.

Tiger is a flawed human being (we all are) with an insane amount of money earned from golf and endorsements. I never held him up as a great man (34 is a bit young for me to bestow "greatness" on anyone, particularly a professional athlete), and think that anyone who did is rather foolish. And those who say they feel "betrayed" really need to re-evaluate...