Depression Associated With Sustained Brain Signals

[The Straight Story]

Depression Associated With Sustained Brain Signals: Genetic Mutation in Mice Elevates Their Risk of Stress-Induced Depression

ScienceDaily (Apr. 8, 2010) — Depression and schizophrenia can be triggered by environmental stimuli and often occur in response to stressful life events. However, some people have a higher predisposition to develop these diseases, which highlights a role for genetics in determining a person's disease risk.

A high number of people with depression have a genetic change that alters a protein that cells use to talk to each other in the brain. Imaging of people with depression also shows that they have greater activity in some areas of their brain. Unfortunately, the techniques that are currently available have not been able to determine why stress induces pathological changes for some people and how their genetics contribute to disease.

A new mouse model may provide some clues about what makes some people more likely to develop depression after experiencing stress. A collaborative group of European researchers created a mouse that carries a genetic change associated with depression in people. "This model has good validity for understanding depression in the human, in particularly in cases of stress-induced depression, which is a fairly widespread phenomenon" says Dr. Alessandro Bartolomucci, the first author of the research published in the journal, Disease Models and Mechanisms (DMM).

The scientists made genetic changes in the transporter that moves a signaling protein, serotonin, out of the communication space between neurons in the brain. The changes they made are reminiscent of the genetic changes found in people who have a high risk of developing depression.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100406073639.htm

Myself, I get sick and tired of having people tell others 'Just get over it. Move on from it. Etc'

My two neighbors died, then my mom, then mom's best friend (mom #2 we always called her), then my first X died, found my kids after 8 years of not knowing where they were (and they hated me and blamed me for her death - but all is good with them now and we have a close relationship), then my now X got diagnosed with Parkinson's and they found a brain cyst - All within about 12 months - while I was working my butt off managing 3 data centers and over 20 engineers and taking care of my daughter while the wife tried out different meds.

If I got upset at more than a few people said things like 'well, I lost someone once too, you just have to move on' and things like that. My sister especially in all of this, she and dad only related to mom dying and figured they lost her too and were not having issues.

It reminds me of my back/neck issues. People can't see it, so it is all in my head and just need to go to church or smile and move on.

Dumb asses.

[groovedaddy]

1. My grandmother, who was from Germany, told me the cultural norm in Germany for a close loss

was a grieving period of 1 year. During that time, the grieving family did not receive cards for any occassion, nor did people typically come to visit the family. Seems like a good idea to me. People need to be allowed to grieve over a period of time.
When I was 16, my older brother was killed in Vietnam. In the limo, after the funeral, I couldn't hold it in and just began weeping. People in my family and a few others were trying to tell me I shouldn't be crying. I yelled out something like "damn it, we just put my brother in the ground. Leave me alone!"

[BanzaiBonnie]

2. I'm sorry for your loss

That's a heavy toll to carry in such a short time. I'm sorry that some people have been so careless of your feelings. I don't know what to say. Yes, some are dumb asses. It could also be their own inability to deal with death... so they just deny it.



Sheesh, it took me a year to grieve my dog's death. For months and months I would burst into a flood of tears just thinking about her. I still miss her and my eyes well up.

Let alone grieving the loss of a close family member. Or the cluster of losses you've had. Everyone should be allowed to grieve in their own way. That's why giving someone space to do that is the best thing. Perhaps checking in once in awhile and asking "how are you doing?"

[bobbolink]

3. Yes, by all means, lets focus on "genetics" rather than SOCIETAL STRESS....

Guess where there is more profit?

Guess who will benefit more from focusing on genetics??

:puke:

[thereismore]

7. I am sorry you don't get it. The genetic and social inputs are synergistic. nt

[bobbolink]

8. When you can't reply with logic, you use attack. Please tell me how that is different from what we

have gotten all these years from the RW.

If you can't reply with courtesy, and remember that I *DIDN'T* attack YOU in my post, then there is nothing more to discuss, just as we can't discuss with the RW.

[eridani]

12. Ignoring genetics = blaming the victim

Why do you have a problem with genes and mental illness, but not with genes and diabetes? In both cases, environment plays an important role in symptom development, and of course poor people get hit way harder inthat respect.

[thereismore]

24. You are awfully jumpy, bobbolink. I didn't attack you. I just said you didn't get it. nt

[bobbolink]

25. Yes, you looked down from on high, judged me, and when I refuse to accept the judgment

then you label me.

Really "progressive".

Look at your own process.

This thread is about being emotionally healthy, and this is how you treat others.

Take a good look at your own process.

[RainDog]

18. I don't think you really got the article

it wasn't about one or the other. it was about the physiological experience of depression.

the mice replicated that experience, the study claims.

the particular depression in question, that caused by stress, is often linked to trauma. Doctors now know that people who have ptsd, for instance, experience physiological changes... a part of their brains shrink.

we're part of the environment in which we live. we interact. a stress or situational depression has physiological effects on the body.

no doctor I know suggests pills are the cure all. doctors recommend exercise and dietary changes, groups to help someone get on with life... your view isn't really what depression as an illness is all about.

[bobbolink]

22. The patronizing isn't helpful. And, no, "doctors" aren't all that interested in treatment besides

pills.

You see, what YOU don't know is that I know a psychiatrist who was at the annual meeting back in the 60s where they decided to focus on the drugs. BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT SET THEM APART FROM PSYCHOLOGISTS AND SOCIAL WORKERS SO THEY COULD MAKE MORE MONEY.

So, if you want to be patronizing, even though I already replied to that, I will be patronizing right back. YOU don't follow the money, and understand what is behind all of this!

The way you addressed me says to me that you are in league with the whole attitude that these greedy doctors wanted to promote. It does NOTHING to help heal people, and heal our society.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Better Today]

4. It's equally annoying, and insensitive, for people to suggests meds typically

taken for clinical depression (which I've always understood as being depression wherein there're no underlying reasons) when it is clear that there are totally valid reasons for feeling depressed and even overwhelmed.

The idea that we are supposed to be "happy" regardless of our life's situations is plain BS. And though I totally support the use of meds for truly clinical depression, it seems everyone wants you to medicate yourself for the benefit of them, instead of assisting or addressing your very real needs.

I feel this attitude we face these days, both the "get over it" and the "get medicated", harms reality based depressives in two ways. First it further lowers one's self-esteem by essentially saying, "what you think is important and heartfelt, isn't and you're just too reactive and/or looking for attention," and furthermore demands dismissiveness of the value you've given the situations that you deemed important enough to be depressed over. In your case, dismissing the importance of the family and friends and the value you give/gave them in your world.

In a nut shell, I think it's just a societal problem strongly tied to the entire "Me, Me!" attitude that most have sunk into. No one has the time or desire to care enough to walk through with you or hold you or help you, they want a quick fix, immediately gratifying them, regardless of the turmoil you are in.

[Odin2005]

14. That reminds me of Barb Ehrenreich's new book slamming the "Positive Thinking" cult.

There is this assumption that people should always be happy, or at least content, which is totally moronic. Sure, many are genetically predisposed to depression (myself included), but that doesn't mean that handing out meds should be used as an excuse to not fix the unjust societal structures that trigger it.

[Quantess]

15. Telling someone to "get over it" or "you should be more optimistic", invalidates their feelings.

Invalidating a person's feelings communicates that their feelings don't matter. It can result in low self esteem, especially for younger and more sensitive people.

Look up "invalidating environment" or "invalidating parents" to see how potentially damaging it can be to consistently hear things like "it's not that bad", or "you shouldn't feel that way".

[RainDog]

17. that's not the definition of clinical depression

clinical depression is depression that is severe and long-lasting. it is not "the normal" range/duration of a variety of symptoms that interfere with someone's ability to function in his or her day-to-day life from time to day. It can be life-threatening for the person who is ill.

the reason for the depression has nothing to do with why a cluster of behaviors, somatic illnesses, etc. falls into the range of clinical depression.

This is not about taking a pill to "be happy."

At the same time, antidepressants may not be all they've been said to be - people on antidepressants are often still clinically depressed. Who knows what's the placebo effect, what's a change over time, or whether the act of seeking help may help to alleviate symptoms somewhat.

No one who is treating depression is saying that what's bothering you is unimportant. They are trying to help you to be able to function - to be able to enjoy the experience of life.

by saying that pills are a way to try to deny depression minimizes the debilitating experience of depression itself - if you were an epileptic and flashing lights caused seizures, you wouldn't say medication was a way to deny the illness if someone used anti-seizure meds.

people who are ill need the freedom to seek out the things that work for them to help deal with their illnesses - sometimes people have to learn to manage depression, rather than expect a "cure." that may involve medication or not.

[Better Today]

19. When there are valid on-going reasons to be depressed, it isn't

an illness, it's a reaction. Comparing legitimate reality-based depression which can and likely will change when the person has time to go through the stages of dealing with whatever events triggered it or maintain it to something like epilepsy which is a brain dysfunction and will occur regardless of the reality one finds oneself in is such a stretch as to be entirely ridiculous.

[RainDog]

20. you don't know the medical definitions of depression

I do.

you are creating a scenario that has no basis in reality for a dx of clinical depression.

[Better Today]

21. Yeah, right, whatever it takes to sell more pills. I'm not saying that an individual can't or

shouldn't choose to opt for meds if they feel their depression over reality is lasting too long. What I'm saying is that others shouldn't be pushing that option on someone who feels justified in feeling depressed about their real life issues and circumstances. Note that my original response indicates this difference by referencing other people telling a depressed person to either "get over it" or "get medicated".

[bobbolink]

23. Very, very well said!

:applause:

There is also the missing aspect of following the $$$$.... Psychiatrists and Pharmco are making biig bucks on medicating the population. Of all people, "progressives" should be able to see that.

[jaksavage]

5. depression runs in my family

my sister is schizophrenic (sp)
Thanks for this find it is very interesting.
So sorry for your times of great loss.
All of us need time to grieve about our losses.

[Frances]

6. I remember when I had no sympathy for

physical or emotional problems. But that was because I hadn't experienced them and neither had anyone very close to me.

I know better now.

[Mari333]

9. after my husbands, and then my parents, and then my son...

if anyone tells me to 'get over it' or move on, I tell them to kiss my ass.

Im sorry, but there is no getting on about one's child. you literally never get better. ever.

[RainDog]

16. ...

:hug:

[bananas]

10. free pdf and supplementary material

http://dmm.biologists.org/content/early/2010/04/01/dmm.004614
Increased vulnerability to psychosocial stress in heterozygous serotonin transporter knockout mice

[Hekate]

11. Hey Straight Story -- thanks for the link and info confirming what I suspected.

Some people, even here, are so stuck in their own opinions and narrow experiences that they will only believe in mind-body interactions and human biochemistry when depression or drug side-effects or whatever happens to them personally. And I do mean in their own body/mind.

:hug:

Hekate

[Odin2005]

13. And yet there are still idiots that think "it's all in your head".

:eyes: