Family sends 7 year old adopted boy back to Russia on one-way flight - alone.

[Contrary1]

:grr: Charges should be filed against these idiots.

MOSCOW - A top Russian official demanded that all child adoptions by U.S. families be frozen Friday after a woman from Tennessee shipped her 7-year-old adopted Russian grandson on a one-way flight back to Moscow all alone.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov called the actions by the grandmother, Nancy Hansen of Shelbyville, “the last straw” in a string of U.S. adoptions gone wrong, including three in which Russian children had died in the United States. The cases have prompted outrage in Russia, where foreign adoption failures are reported with gusto.

<snip>

The Kremlin children’s rights office said the boy was carrying a letter from his adoptive mother saying she was returning him due to severe psychological problems.

“This child is mentally unstable. He is violent and has severe psychopathic issues,” the letter said. “I was lied to and misled by the Russian Orphanage workers and director regarding his mental stability and other issues..."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36322282/ns/world_news-europe/

[babylonsister]

1. Horrid. Not only is this irresponsible, but it screws up the chances

for other couples to adopt. So very selfish in so many ways.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hdX2aH94-cG6tnHX748IeHKU9oAwD9EVI0M01

Adoption freeze urged after boy returned to Russia

(AP) – 6 hours ago

MOSCOW — Russia's foreign minister is urging a freeze in child adoptions to U.S. families after a Russian boy adopted by an American woman was flown back to Russia on his own.

Russian news agencies cite Sergey Lavrov as saying the ministry will recommend that the U.S. and Russia hammer out an agreement before any new adoptions are allowed.

Lavrov was reacting to reports that an 8-year-old Russian boy adopted in the United States was flown by himself back to Moscow bearing a note saying his adoptive mother from Tennessee was returning him.

[LynneSin]

56. Although this was wrong - there are issues on both sides of these adoptions

There was an article about this in the local Harrisburg paper about parents having problems with their recent russian adoptions. It does seem like these parents are much more patient in working with the children they adopted, there is a sense that Russian is sending their most problematic children over to the USA without really letting the parents know what they are getting. And dealing with special needs children is not for everyone.

It's a shame what this one family in the DU post did - that was horribly wrong. But I think Russian authorities need to be a bit more clear with the needs some of these children have before sending them to the US.

BTW - proud Auntie to 2 children adopted from actually USSR (they are both Ukrainian and the adoption was finalized in Russia. Done right when the USSR was breaking up).

[roguevalley]

96. most of these kids were kept in cribs without people touching them

for years and getting a kid from Romania or Russia or other Iron Curtain countries is playing russian roulette. some of them are deeply disturbed, detached from emotions and deadly.

[Brickbat]

2. So sad, all the way around.

[jobycom]

3. Wow. I'll chip in for a one way ticket for the family.

They can be mine sniffers in Iraq, maybe.

[MadHound]

4. While I agree with the fact to send this kid back alone is unacceptable

The fact of the matter is that Russians have engaged in a lucrative industry that preys on desperate couples, taking advantage of them and adopting out kids who are mentally unstable, or who have health problems, mental problems and various disabilities that they don't disclose up front.

Lots and lots of people in this country have gotten burned by this. Worse yet, many of these kids aren't even orphans, but were either taken from their Russian parents and adopted out without their consent, or the parents did so deliberately in order to make a bit of money and save on the expense of a special needs kid.

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. Sadly, not just Russians, but Koreans, Chinese, and all the other hip and trendy adoption countries.

And meanwhile, we have tens of thousands of kids in the states that would love to have some parents.

But the accessory-lovin' folk, nah, they gotta have the foreign-borns to prove how awesome they are.

Or, if not wanting some foreign kid accessory to fit in, they're people that have been totally fucked by the insane American adoption process that makes a lot of people just go, "Fuck this - it's easier to adopt from China".

And that's fucked up, too.

[MadHound]

14. I think that is the real problem in this country, our adaption process is absolutely insane

I've known more than one couple who've waited over five years to adapt and finally said "fuck it" and adapted a foreign kid.

It also doesn't help that adaption by GLBT couples is frowned upon or illegal in many states. That, along with a small but significant number of "Aryan" adapters who don't want to adapt a non-white child. And yeah, there are the accessory folks out there too.

But really, I think that the biggest problem is our own adaption process, it is cumbersome, bureaucratic and slow as a glacier.

[Doremus]

59. Adoption.

Not adaption. Thank you.

[pnwmom]

18. It is not as easy to adopt a healthy baby or toddler here as you think,

no matter what the race. That is why many people choose foreign adoption. Not everyone is cut out to be the parent of a "special needs" child or an older child with psychological issues.

[Rabrrrrrr]

20. That IS what I said - you must not have read my the whole post.

I *know* the system is fucked up in the US.

[pnwmom]

32. I read your whole post twice but I still don't see where you addressed this issue.

Saying the system is "fucked up" doesn't tell me much.

There really aren't nearly as many healthy babies or toddlers of ANY race in need of adoption here as there are parents who would like to adopt them. That's why most parents end up choosing foreign adoption -- not because they're Brangelina wannabes.

[Rabrrrrrr]

42. I apologize - I figured "fucked up" was quicker and more emphatic than a dissertation

with charts and graphs and plenty of footnotes.

And no, maybe not as many babies - but a hell of a lot of older kids who need homes. In the US, it's easier to give your kid away when they're 5 or 10 or 15 than when they're a baby.

You know, it's "fucked up". The whole system. It's all fucked.

Up.

Which is enough for me, because I sure as hell don't feel like going into detail on it.

[walldude]

34. This wasn't a baby or a toddler. the kid was 7.

Half a million kids in the Foster care system. If you are willing to adopt a kid who is not a newborn it's pretty easy to get in the Foster care system and then adopt f

[pnwmom]

44. I was responding to the earlier comment that suggested that parents

adopt foreign children as a fashion accessory.

I don't know why this family adopted from Russia.

[walldude]

47. Oops..my apologies..

This thing is just pissing me off... My bad :toast:

[elehhhhna]

61. Orphanages in India are scamming church members here in Houston.

these couples are desperate and there's a ton of money to be "made".

[flpab]

71. adoption in the USA

It has been 15 years now but it was horrid to adopt here in the states. The birth mother can change her mind after you pay all the bills, the scams are horrible, my friends who had money paid a birth mother and found out she was scamming three families. The agencies are just as bad. I lost it when they told me the cost but said if I would take a handicap child or mixed child it would be 1/2 the price. What are they, Broken? A cousin adopted from a church group but found out after the baby was from two druggies. That kid has had so many problems, genes are genes and you can get some screwed up children, they are both stable loving parents and never gave up on the kid even when they had to protect the second child they adopted from his actions. Anyway, I learned that being a parent isn't everything, have my dogs and a loving husband. It was just not meant to be.

[uppityperson]

118. Some of us don't qulify for infants in the USA. Age, perhaps, like being 40, make it impossible

to adopt a baby here. If I wanted a grade school age kid, no problem, but was told outright when I was 40 that I would not qualify for an infant.

[tblue]

12. Oh. I'm sure there's a lot of truth in that.

How awful to be told you are adopting a child with no issues and then find out you were lied to. Yes, the 'parents' handled this all wrong. ALL WRONG. And that poor little kid is gonna suffer for this. But I think you're right, the story goes deeper, and the problem began with the agency in Russia.

[damntexdem]

21. Rather than blame all Americans who adopt, Russia might blame the vetting of the adoptive mother.

Two sides created this perfect storm.

[LynneSin]

65. Or perhaps vetting the adoptive mother of the medical history of the child

Some of these adoptive parents have no idea what kind of shape these children are in when they bring them home.

[joeybee12]

22. Got a link for that assertion? n/t

[MadHound]

33. Here is one outlining some of the problems I just mentioned,

Albeit it in much milder terms
<http://www.adoptinfo.net/russiaarticle2.html>

I also know about this personally, because I know a number of Russians, including a few who have special needs kids. These couples were approached by adoption agencies, essentially offering to buy their children, which they would then put up for adoption and make a profit.

If you don't believe me, that's fine, whatever. Just go talk to to some immigrants from Russia who have special needs children, my bet is you'll get the same story.

[joeybee12]

36. I also know about it personally, so if you don't want to believe me,

fine.

[MadHound]

40. What, are you from Russia? n/t

[joeybee12]

49. Nope...n/t

[pnwmom]

23. Here's a link with many more details.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hdX2aH94-cG6tnHX748IeHKU9oAwD9EVM2480

[joeybee12]

26. Nope. A friend adopted a Russian boy a few years back...the process

was exceedingly long and detailed...almost took a full year...she flew there twice and spent two weeks each time with the child...everything was very, very through.

Bottom line, the Russians aren't to blame...the batchit crazy woman from TN is.

[MadHound]

38. Believe what you want to,

The fact is reality doesn't care what you believe. And the reality of the matter is that there is an active, ongoing adoption industry going on inside of Russia, taking advantage of desperate, gullible American couples.

I'm not exonerating this woman from TN, what she did was inexcusable. But there is also plenty of bullshit going on inside of Russia itself in this regard.

[joeybee12]

39. No, you're making excuses...and quite frankly, you seem very eager to

exonorate the mother...the article does not mention what adoption agency, what process, etc...I know Russians and I know people from TN...I know who I'm believing.

[MadHound]

50. I guess you missed the parts where I said

That what the mom did was inexcusable, and that what the Russians do doesn't exonerate her:eyes:

You seem very eager to try and hold the Russians blameless, yet the fact of the matter is that what I describe does go on. You may not want to believe it, but nevertheless it happens.

[Brickbat]

52. Having worked at an organization that helped facilitate adoptions from Russia,

I can say I know exactly what you're talking about. It's sad and infuriating and sickening.

[Violet_Crumble]

63. Yeah, that was the little bit tacked on the end after blaming the Russians...

I hope Russia does put a stop to adoptions to the US after what happened. It wasn't merely unacceptable - it was child abuse, and I shudder to think at the way a disgusting creature such as that woman could have treated that child in the time she had him. And I don't know why anyone's automatically believing what she wrote about him having psychological problems. I'd take anything and everything she says with a massive grain of salt...

The woman should be charged with child endangerment. How disgusting that she'd treat a child like something she bought and decided to return for a refund after getting home and deciding she doesn't like it...

[pnwmom]

128. No, he doesn't. But you seem very eager to condemn her. Must be nice to

be such an authority on the basis of a few newspaper articles.

[Violet_Crumble]

142. Most people do have an issue with people who abandon children like that woman did...

Surely you can see the lack of empathy and compassion in what she did to that little boy?

[pnwmom]

147. I agree that she handled the return poorly. But I'm wondering why there isn't

more concern about the issue of the orphanage. I've heard of so many cases where baby brokers pushed children for adoption while concealing their histories. Should there be no recourse for the adoptive parents in these cases?

[Pithlet]

149. Probably because everyone is focused on her appalling actions.

It so overwhelms everything else about the story. I'm sure there is a story in there about the wrongs on their end. But none of it excuses or explains what she did.

[marshall]

161. This woman could have worked with her agency to have the adoption disrupted

The agency is WACAP, and they have worked through disruptions before. The child would have been placed in a more appropriate home--but this woman (who is now legally the child's parent) would have been in some degree financially responsible. I would imagine if she did contact her agency they told her this and she didn't want to go that route.

I think this will have an effect on single parent adoptions in Russia. They are already very reluctant to adopt to single men because of the Disney Girl abuse case a few years ago. This case will bring negative light to single women adopting. This woman should have been even more careful in the process to make sure she could handle this child, because she has no second parent to help her. She could have hired a doctor in Russia or had a doctor here review his records. The process in Russia requires two visits so she had to have spent some time with the child. And it is not difficult to find out that any child adopted from an instititional setting will have issues and problems that need to be dealt with. And the older the child and the longer in the institution the more extensive the problems.

My guess would be that the woman had an ideal fixed in her mind about adopting a child and being a mother that caused her to be blind to problems and red flags that might have been present during the process. When the reality of parenting a troubled child set in, and the only legal solution being a disruption that would still require her to partially support the child, I think she just decided to return him. Likely she did not think about the international consequences to other adoptions or the personal consequences to this child.

[kickysnana]

67. Two problems, theres and ours

Some kids came almost irreparably damaged, Chernobyl damaged kids, abused kids, fetal alcohol syndrome, unable to bond, explosive. They require 24 hours supervision into their teens. They can be destructive, violent and self-destructive. Adoptive parents have no idea how to cope.

We do not have the ability in our system to treat these children. So much of our mental health system is inadequate or counter-productive.

That said sending him home on a plane alone was negligent but points out this seeming unsolvable problem.

There was a documentary about a women in Idaho or Montana that took these last resort kids, headed for lifetime prison or suicide and was able to reach them. But she is only one person and can only handle a few of these kids at a time.

[Diclotican]

91. kickysnana

kickysnana

All children "can" be helped to a level when they can live, with some help from others if the handicaps, both fycial and psycal is to serve... I know, as I am one of the grown up, who as a child maybe would be defined as an "irreparbly damaged" by experiences I had as a little child.. Belive me, my issues when I was growing up was BIG as the Empire State Building... And I had a temper, who could make a mess out of a school jard if I get little teased - and I often was that becouse of my "antics"...When I was in 1 grade I allmoust got my hair on fire, becouse some desided that it was wort the trouble - and I got so angry, that I was running after one of them - and found a stone, the biggest I got, and trow the thing right in the back head of the person... I got suspended - for a week... But thankfully I had my fosterparents, and my "dad" was making some hell, becouse he got the whole story, not just that I trow the stone. And my suspension was up after a week.. And When I was in 3 grade I broke a 5 graders arm so badly that he was out of school for a long time... Im not proud of it at all.. But I just "click" for some reason, and he was the closest person - and a person who had been picked on my for a long time, with allmoust inpunity from school... And that is only a few things from my school days, when I was teased, and builled by my school mates - who was more "normal" than I was... Even today I have tried my best not to come to close to the old school.... From 1 grade, true 9th grade I was bullied, mostly becouse i was not 100 percent "normal"..

Wel, Today, as an 33 year old grown up man, I still have my problems, and have my handicaps, who sometimes are doing my more harm than good.. But Im in far better shape, than I would say a life with my own parents would posible have managed to give me.. My foster parents had some children before, so they maybe know the tricks... So I would say I am not in that bad a chape, even with my handicaps... And yes, it was some substance abuse home.. Mostley alcohol misuse, and both me and my brother is maybe damaged by that.. But we are both "normal" on the outside.. And I doubt, that you would know that I had problems, if you was ever to say hello to me face to face..

But at one time I was a child, who many, maybe your self would say was "irreparbly damaged" and not good to anything... AKA not worth the time...

Every child is worth the time , becosuse if YOU dosent do it, who would?.. Every child is wort a try... At least a try, more than 12 months... But of course, if you count a child in cents and dollars.. Then of course, "trouble childrens" is not worth the time and it is far more easy to say they are "irreparably damaged" and just put them in a orpenhage to they are 18 year old, and then put them out in the streets.. Most prisons is full of mentally sick persons, who have had issues in their young years

Diclotican

[walldude]

31. I adopted a child.. not from Russia but I have an adopted son

who has MD. And you know what? When I found out he had it, I never thought once that I should return him like he was a fucking defective car battery from Wal-Mart.

Desperate couples are the ones that want babies. This kid was 7 years old. There are in any given year half a million kids in the Foster care system looking for a real home. If you are looking to adopt and aren't specifically looking for a newborn there are plenty of kids here. I find not a lick of sympathy for these people.

[mzteris]

45. well, russians are the right -

color. . . doncha know.

:banghead:

[truedelphi]

54. How have people gotten burned by this?

There are so many many children in this nation who are adoptable - if the family that wants to adopt doesn't want a blue eyed- cherub-in-appearance type of youngster.

Yes many of our kids who need to be adopted are the same skin color as the President. But heaven forbid that people be forced to adopt children without blue eyes, or white skin, or who happen to be older than six years old.

The people so desperate to adopt kids in Russia are often people who don't want to take on those many children who are available right here. I have a great deal of sympathy for people who struggle through helping kids whose background is questionable and may include such things as having birth parents who were both alcoholics. But I have little sympathy for people who claim that they "had to" adopt outside of this country.

[JerseygirlCT]

58. Yup. I was going to say the same

these children should not be placed with families who aren't in a position to care for them properly - which means knowing about their health or mental problems up front.

Sending that child back like that was quite awful and wrong, but it's also complicated.

[MindandSoul]

88. I assume you have some strong evidence for everything you say???

I also know people who have adopted Russian children, and the process was very thorough and very successful!

So. . .I would be very interested where you got you kind of information!

By the way, NO ONE ever forces ANY American parents to adopt children from abroad, not even from Russia!

There are plenty of children in need right here in america. . .but some parents want the "blond hair, blue eyes" kids that are not as often available for adoption here. . .so. . .please do not blame the victim!

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. I said last night the parents are rigthwing "Christians" or Orange County "accessory-wanters".

Now that I see they're from TN, I trust that my initial very first instinct - that they're rightwing SuperDuper Oh-We-Just-Love-Jesus-With-All-Our-Hearts-Yes-We-Do - is more than likely the correct one.

I doubt we'll find out that they are secular humanists, Buddhists, Jewish, Muslim, or mainline (that is, normal) Christians.

Nope, I bet they're holier-than-thou three-nights-a-week at church "Bible-believin', America-lovin', patriotic" super duper Christians.

You know, the kind who couldn't repeat anything Jesus said if they had a gun to their head and the dude is saying, "For fuck's sake, just give us a pronoun or a noun determiner!"

[immoderate]

70. That could account for the kid's psychological problems.

Seven years is old enough to have formed a world view. Church fundies could drive him crazy. Or they could see his intransigence as crazy.

--imm

[Mother Smuckers]

173. ++++ you said exactly what I was thinking.

All the details are just crap, if those people couldn't manage to give the kid what he needed, or deal with his problems, they should have shopped him around their local area or beyond and found someone who could...not turned him into a UPS package to nowhere.

[TwilightGardener]

6. Poor little boy. It may well be true that he suffers from psych issues from

his past, but this just compounds the problem--another family abandoning him, a long flight back to god knows what. Awful.

[Blue-Jay]

7. Didn't they get to take the kid for a test-drive before they brought him home?

[pnwmom]

13. It might be hard to tell with a child who doesn't speak English,

among other problems.

[joeybee12]

29. A friend adopted a Russina boy...twice she had to fly over there and

spend two weeks with him...these people from TN are filth.

[wickerwoman]

122. Yep. I know four couples who adopted from China.

They all went over to China, met and spent time with the kids first.

And if the kid really was psychotic or had serious behavioural issues, that should have been apparent even with the language barrier.

If she adopted him sight-unseen she's an idiot and the "agency" is shady and irresponsible.

What did she think was going to happen?

[theoldman]

9. Russia will put up for adoption the children it wants the least.

That is why China sends us so many girls. Any person who adopts a child from a foreign county should do it with their eyes wide open. I am not making an excuse for the mother who has now made two mistakes.

[EFerrari]

16. I don't think that person was a mother. n/t

[LynneSin]

64. I've read alot about this (I'm an aunt to 2 Russian adopted children)

My brother was lucky, his was done almost 2 decades ago and he managed to get a brother/sister that wasn't in to bad of shape despite the horrible living conditions they saw at the orphanage. The worst these 2 kids had was some nutritional disorders that were easily corrected (the youngest had scurvy - Vitamin C deficiency).

But there was an article about the Russian Adoption program on the Sunday paper out of Harrisburg PA. And it does seem that Russian is sending over some seriously developmentally challenged children and very little warning to the parents that adopt these children. Special needs children can be very challenging especially if you were not prepared to bring one into your life. Many of these parents going the route thru Russian adoptions have no idea what they are getting and it can be very very frustrating.

Having said that - it was still wrong what the parents did just sending the kid home on a very long flight to Russian with little warning (and where was the airline questioning this when they boarded the child?). But something is really broken with the Russian adoption system and honestly, it should be the United States that shuts this down until Russia better regulates it.

In the US, you can adopt a child with special needs but when you do you are prepared in advanced including a medical history provided with the child. In Russian you get a kid. And maybe the kid is healthy (like what my brother and his wife got) or maybe not.

[EFerrari]

76. No doubt a person should be prepared for that kind of commitment

as much as humanly possible.

[rebecca_herman]

84. exactly

I know a couple who adopted two kids from Russia, however these kids had been given up at birth so their history was living at an orphanage that gave adequate but not amazing care. They were physically healthy but a bit behind developmentally for their age. They are older and caught up now. But I've also heard stories of other families who adopted where it went horribly wrong, the children had history of severe abuse not disclosed which led to unfixable problems that made the children a danger to themselves and others.

Here is another story of an adoption gone wrong, in this case a domestic adoption from state care, where the child was said to be healthy and have no severe problems - in fact the adopting couple specifically requested that they could not deal with a child who was violent - http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/tony-melissa-wescott-oklahoma-return-adopted-son/story?id=9387389&page=1 they now want to give the child back to state custody because they are in fear of their lives and the private mental health facility they placed him in wishes to discharge him, which they do not feel is safe.

[CoffeeCat]

69. Yes, it sounds like both sides are very wrong...

I don't see why some are insisting that Russia's tactics are innocent
and the woman is the devil OR that the woman is innocent and Russia's
adoption procedures are solely to blame.

Can't both parties be contributing to this problem?

[TheDebbieDee]

10. I didn't read the details about the child's psychopathic issues,

but maybe the child was ill enough, unstable enough, violent enough to be dangerous. Perhaps there were other children in the home. Don't they deserve a right to be safe?

All I'm saying is there may be more to this story than we know. Maybe not...........

[damntexdem]

25. Whatever the kid's characteristics, they don't justify what was done to him.

Whatever faults there might have been at the Russian adoption agency, what the adoptive mother did is far worse.

If there are other children in the home, don't they deserve to be safe from this adoptive mother?

[joeybee12]

27. Maybe not...we're taking the word of a woman who lied to a 7-year-old and

sent him back unattended.

That woman is filth.

[Blue_Tires]

11. holy shit...

Artem Saveliev was taken from a grim Russian orphanage in September last year and given a new life in Tennessee.

But on Thursday his adoptive mother, Torry-Ann Hansen, put him on a ten hour flight to Moscow as an unaccompanied minor with a note addressed "to whom it may concern," saying: "I no longer wish to parent this child."

The 26-year-old nurse told the boy he was going on an excursion and filled his rucksack with sweets, biscuits and coloring pens for the journey.

She also found a Russian tour guide on the internet who agreed to meet the child from the plane. The guide, called Artur, passed him to the authorities in central Moscow.

He looked confused and bewildered as he was taken into care by Moscow social services, it was said.

In the typed letter to the Russian Ministry of Education in Moscow, Hansen claimed Artem was "mentally unstable" and that his problems were hidden from her by Russian orphanage officials before she adopted him.

"He is violent and has severe psychopathic issues/behavior. I was lied to and misled by the Russian orphanage workers and director regarding his mental stability," she wrote.

"As he is a Russian national, I am returning him to your guardianship and would like the adoption disannulled."

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpps/news/dpgonc-torry-ann-hansen-sends-adopted-son-back-to-russia-fc-20100409_6989299

I guess we should give her credit that she didn't treat him like a dog and do the traditional "long walk in the woods with the shotgun" routine :sarcasm:

[WolverineDG]

75. She's a nurse

so surely she's aware of the services available for this child & how to access them.

Doesn't matter if the Russians lied to her or not. There is no excuse for her to try to return this child as if he was a pair of jeans that she's too lazy to re-hem.

dg

[marshall]

169. Those services would have required her to be financially responsible for the child

She wanted to wash her hands completely of the child, and have no financial responsibility.

The best she can say is that at least she didn't kill him.

[damntexdem]

15. Russian Orphanage workers and the director may have been lied to and misled ...

regarding the regarding the mental stability of the adoptive mother.

If she had a grievance about anything involving the adoption, this was not the right way to respond to the situation. And what is the mental and emotional situation of the child after being treated this way? And that is quite aside to how this might have put the child at risk, being sent off alone on a flight to Moscow with nothing but a nasty note.

[EFerrari]

17. She or they should be charged with child endangerment.

Assholes.

[walldude]

19. They apparently thought Russia was fucking Wal-Mart

and when they got a "defective product" they returned it. Didn't even need a receipt.

Every day.. every day it gets harder and harder not to admit that we are our own worst enemy.

[pnwmom]

28. It's legal to put a 7 year old on a plane, as long as there is someone to pick

them up at the other end -- and there was. The family had made an arrangement with a Russian on the other end, who picked up the child and took him to a Ministry with a letter from the family.

The big problem, apparently, is that there is no agreement between the US and Russia about adoptions.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hdX2aH94-cG6tnHX748IeHKU9oAwD9EVM2480

[joeybee12]

35. No, the big problem is they lied to the kid...told him he was going

on an excurstion, and an even bigger problem is that woman from TN is worthless garbage.

[pnwmom]

41. Where does it say that? n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

68. Try reading the article to get a sense that she's worthless garbage...

Or are you of the belief she hasn't done anything wrong? You do appear to be coming across like yr defending her...

[pnwmom]

73. I don't know enough to defend her or attack her.

But nowhere in the article did it say that she lied to the child about the purpose of the trip.

[Violet_Crumble]

74. There's enough in the article to show she's a disgusting individual...

I just find it interesting that while most people in this thread are quite correctly pointing out what a revolting person she is for what she did, you haven't, and instead seem more interested in doing what very much appears to be defending her...

Anyway, if you've read the article I can't see how you could come away from it not of the opinion that she's a terrible person who should be investigated by the authorities in the US...

Oh, and apparently she did lie to him by telling him he was going on an excursion, though that's really an unimportant point and doesn't have any impact on the horrible thing she did...

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpps/news/dpgonc-torry-ann-hansen-sends-adopted-son-back-to-russia-fc-20100409_6989299

[pnwmom]

78. Since I don't watch or read FOX, I missed that quote.

I did read that they found him trying to set a fire in his bedroom, after threatening to burn their house down and telling them about a building he had burned down in Russia. And that they felt he was a threat to another child in the family.

So, while the way she returned him certainly seems wrong (although advised to her by an attorney), I'm unwilling to condemn the mother and grandmother without knowing the entire picture. It is quite possible, based on other cases that I've heard of, that the adoption agency in Russia deliberately withheld critical information about his history when they made him available for adoption.

[Violet_Crumble]

94. I don't watch or read it either, but I do read posts in this thread which is where it was...

Anyone who has the slightest shred of decency or concern for children wouldn't be unwilling to condemn what that woman did to that child, nor do what yr doing and accept what she's saying. A woman who could do that to a small child is someone who I'd expect would be a very dishonest person, and seeing you don't know the facts in this case, I think yr one-sided speculation in the defence of an American woman who has no problems with abandoning a child can be discarded as wishful thinking...

I find it a bit disturbing that there's one or two DUers who come across as just a bit xenophobic in their attitudes. The reality is that there was a US adoption agency involved in this adoption, so rather than rushing to defend the woman who abandoned the child and rushing to attack the Russian adoption process, you might want to take a good hard look at the shortcomings in adoption agencies in the US that handle international adoptions...

[pnwmom]

129. Wrong. I don't accept what she's saying NOR do I disbelieve her. Unlike you,

I refuse to make up my mind or put all the blame on her shoulders -- and none on the orphanage in Russia -- on the basis of such limited information.

You appear find it much easier to make quick and global judgments with regard to other people.

[azurnoir]

134. It is not a matter of believing or not

the child is an American citizen not Russian and American medical and social services should have been engaged to care for him if the mother could or would not the women was IMO trying to avoid the responsibility, social stigma, and quite possibly financial costs of doing so. This also leans towards the mindset that an adopted child is never quite the same as your own something that IMO is BS with an adopted child just as with a genetic one ya rolls the dice and you takes your chances good or bad, no matter what what was done to this child was unconscionable

[pnwmom]

135. Neither the US nor Russia is a party to the international treaty that would have

protected this child. If people here really care about such children, and aren't just looking for a way to spew some venom at the 26 year old mother (who broke no laws), then that's where their efforts should be directed.

[azurnoir]

136. wow so anyone can simply dump a trouble some child? n/t

[pnwmom]

139. No. Only someone who's adopted a child from a foreign country, since

the U.S. isn't party to the International agreement on adoptions.

[marshall]

162. That is not true

For this woman to have brought this child into the United States she would have had to pre-apply for his immigration through the State Department. In that documentation she stipulates that she is adopting the child and will be his guardian.

The circumstances you speak about would pertain to a foreign adoption by a US citizen where the visa paperwork is not done (and consequently the child cannot legally be brought into the United States). In such a case the parent could abandon the child and it would not necessarily involve a violation of US law.

This woman would have had to sign (among other documents) form I-864, promising to be financially responsible for this child. Her abandonment of this child is a violation of that promise.

[pnwmom]

164. There is nothing in that paperwork that prevents a person from revoking

an adoption. And the child isn't an American citizen unless and until the parent files the appropriate documentation -- which has caused trouble for other adoptees who have only found out as adults that their parents never finished the paperwork and that they weren't citizens.

This is why the U.S. needs to sign the treaty.

[marshall]

166. The paperwork MUST be filed BEFORE the child is brought into the United States

The treaty has nothing to do with it. The United States will not issue a visa for a child to enter the country until the form is signed. The fact that this woman brought the child into the country necessitates that the paperwork was filed and processed prior to his entry. Under current law the child would then be a US citizen upon arrival in the United States.

The cases you refer to happened prior to the most recent change in immigration law.

The treaty would cover adoption law, which is a vital but separate issue. I am referring to immigration law, and the form that this would would have had to sign pledging financial support to the child that she is requesting immigration for based on a foreign adoption.

[pnwmom]

171. I just read that the boy only came here last September and the adoption

might not have been final. There are still a number of factual issues to be determined, but she did have the advice of an attorney to guide her. So, if you are correct, wouldn't the responsibility be his?

[marshall]

172. This child would have entered the US with an IR-3 Visa

That designates an adoption finalized in the foreign adopting country.

IR-4 visas are issued are only rarely in Russian adoptions, and when they are issued they are in the cases of two parent adoptions where one parent cannot for some valid reason travel to complete the adoption. This requires a finalization of the adoption in the US. Since this woman is single she would not fall into that exceedingly rare category.

What this woman likely did not do is file for a re-adoption and/or a recognition of foreign adoption (in cases where the home state automatically recognizes legal foreign adoptions).

As far as Russia is concerned she is the child's legal parent. As far as the United States is concerned she is financially responsible for a foreign born person whom she sponsored for citizenship.

[azurnoir]

137. OH please spew venom at a women no matter what age

who dumped her kid on some guy she found on-line who had "safe references from the same country that she claims lied to her

BTW once adopted this kid is an American citizen there should be no need for international treaties to be involved what the Russians are actually guilty of is not screening this women closely enough

please save your self-righteous blather for someone else, tell us does your apparent attitude that kids are disposable objects apply to only adopted ones and would that only foreign or domestic, both or natural born ones as well?

Nancy Hansen outlined for CNN the process she followed after she decided Justin must go back to Russia.

When the lawyer she found online advised her the adoption could be reversed, Hansen booked the flight and paid the fee for a steward to escort Justin through the airport, she said.

She hired a driver in Moscow she found online to pick the child up from the Moscow airport, she said. She found "safe references" for the driver online, she said.

She then prepared a letter for Justin to present to Russian officials, which included a photo of the driver, whom she identified as "Arthur," she said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/04/09/us.russian.adoption.return/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

[Rabrrrrrr]

138. No, an adopted child is not automatically a US citizen. The parents have to do the paperwork for it.

Found that out last year when an adopted friend of mine (adopted from Russia) went to get his drivers license, and was told that he couldn't because he wasn't a citizen.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

144. The law changed in 2001 - he is a US Citizen

and you don't need to be a US Citizen to get a drivers license, some states don't even care if your in the country legally.

The law was changed because previous adhoc regulations were completely incoherent, overlapping and contradictory. For instance South Vietnamese orphans adopted from South Vietnam in 1975 (the Babylift) were US Citizens. South Vietnamese orphans adopted from refugee camps were not US citizens.

[Rabrrrrrr]

159. He was adopted back in the 90s, so clearly didn't fit under the new laws.

Thanks for letting me know the law has been changed! That's good to know.

And I could have been wrong that he HAD to be a citizen to get a license, but that's at least when he found out that he wasn't a citizen and had to go through the process. Quite an exciting day for us when he became a US citizen!

[azurnoir]

145. One of my siblings has adopted 2 children from other countries

and as another poster has informed you the children are indeed citizens the law was changed in 2001 those adoptions took place in 2005 and 2007

[Violet_Crumble]

141. Yet, you did accept what she said in another part of this thread...

Further down where you were making claims that the child was disturbed based solely on what that woman said. I happen to think someone so lacking in any empathy or compassion as to stick a small child on an international flight and dump him back in the country he came from is someone who is more than likely to bullshit about the child to try to make herself look good...

The FACT is that she abandoned a small child in a very callous and impersonal way. There is nothing that can come out that could justify that sort of behaviour at all. I've asked you before to suggest some information we're missing that might justify it, and you haven't.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

124. It doesn't matter what arrangements they made,

The child is a US Citizen, this is a matter for child welfare in the state of Tennessee and nobody else.

[pnwmom]

79. Actually, on the advice of their attorney, the child was picked up on the other

end by a person they hired to take the boy to the Russian ministry for children. He wasn't discovered wandering around in the airport, as some of the articles imply; he was brought to the Russian ministry by the person the mother/grandmother had arranged to take him there.

[Violet_Crumble]

95. Why are you defending such disgusting actions?

So, if an attorney says to do something, that makes it okay to do it?

What was done to that child was abandonment, and there's no excuses for what that woman did...

[pnwmom]

24. More details here:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hdX2aH94-cG6tnHX748IeHKU9oAwD9EVM2480

[notadmblnd]

30. Conflicting infor on the adoptive mother. She is either a 26 or 34 yr old nurse, single mother

with a biological son named Logan. No pics yet, but I'd put money on it that she home schooled and went to church on Sunday.

[supernova]

37. That poor kid!

He's now doubly fucked.

:grr:

[Poll_Blind]

43. "...I no longer wish to parent this child." (HINT: Parents don't say that, posers do)

Just in case anyone got confused on the point.

PB

[Hepburn]

46. Assholes I know who live in NorCal adopted a Russian orphan and I swear...

...they treat him like he is some pet for their grown children. They travel all over Asia and leave him home.

If they wanted a pet, they should have not gotten a Russian orphan instead.

Assholes...:mad:

[Liberal_in_LA]

48. How awful.

[aikoaiko]

51. even if everything the mother and grandmother alleges is true, they fuct up.

And they need to held accountable. Child endangerment at least.

Their faces need to be in the news.

[pnwmom]

80. It was pretty heartless, but where was the child endangerment?

Children are put on airline flights by themselves every day; you pay an extra fee and let the airline know, so the attendants can keep an eye on the child. I've often been seated next to one of these children.

At the other end of the flight, the boy was met by a man the mother/grandmother had hired in advance to take him directly to the Russian ministry for children. That's where the Russian government came in contact with the boy; he wasn't discovered wandering around the airport, as some of these stories imply.

[aikoaiko]

83. The Russian ministry wasn't notified to accept the child before hand.

The adoptive parent had no idea and no concern for what would happen to the child after the driver dropped him off. What would have happened if that governmental building was closed that day.

[pnwmom]

89. A lawyer was involved. It is possible that they knew that the Ministry

WAS open that day. Also, they could have had other contingency plans in place. All we know are bits and pieces of whatever actually happened.

[aikoaiko]

92. Ok, its true that I know very little, but if the adoptive parents sent the child back without having

a very clear chain of custody in place with everyone in agreement, then I think they endangered the child.

[Violet_Crumble]

99. That'd be the same lawyer who suggested abandoning the child?

Then my question would be So Fucking What if they were involved? The facts we do know is the woman abandoned a child. Not sure what sort of positive spin you think can be put on what she did to make it acceptable...

[pnwmom]

100. I'm not putting a positive spin on it or trying to make it acceptable.

I'm saying we don't have all the facts. And I don't like to judge other people without knowing a whole lot more than I do in this case.

[Violet_Crumble]

103. But all you've done throughout this thread is put up speculation to try to justify her doing it...

I'm telling you there isn't a single event that happens that we have ALL the facts on, but I'm positive I've seen you in other threads in the past passing judgement without worrying about that. What you seem to be missing is that there's absolutely no excuse for that woman to have treated that child the way she did, and there's no fact that would emerge that would make what she did acceptable. So just like I don't need every single minute and obscure fact before I pass judgement on child abusers, I don't need every single minute and obscure fact to know that the woman who did this is a disgusting piece of shit...

[pnwmom]

106. I'm not "putting up speculation." I don't know the truth -- just that there are two sides

to this and hers is different from what many are saying here. And none of us know the truth.

I, for one, would like to know what the Russian orphanage has to say about her charge that they knew he was emotionally disturbed, that he had a history of starting fires, and they offered him for adoption without informing her of his history. And why they let a 26 year old single mother adopt a child with this history.

She consulted an attorney and followed the attorney's advice as to what to do. I have no idea what the law is on international adoptions that don't work out, do you? From the articles I've read, we have no agreement with Russia and so there is no law to follow.

[Violet_Crumble]

110. Of course you've been speculating away in this thread. Here's some examples...

'It is possible that they knew that the Ministry WAS open that day. Also, they could have had other contingency plans in place. All we know are bits and pieces of whatever actually happened.'

And it appears you didn't read a word of what I said to you. Are there two sides to stories about pedophiles and you also entreat everyone not to say nasty things about the accused until you know all the facts? I bet not, so I find it funny that you pop up doing it in this case. As I said to you in my previous post, there's no case that we know all the facts about, yet I've spotted you in other threads judging people without all the facts. So what's the difference in this case? What possible fact do you think could emerge which would justify her treatment of that child? There's absolutely nothing that would justify it...

And as I've also said before, who cares if she consulted an attorney? How does that justify what she did?

I for one would like to know why yr treating what that woman says as though it should be believed. Also, why you don't seem to be interested in the role of the US agency that was involved in this.

Just curious, but are you personally related to that woman or something? It's just that you seem very driven in defending what she did, and despite yr protestations to the contrary there's absolutely no doubt that she abandoned that child in a really cruel and heartless way.

[pnwmom]

112. You've spotted me, have you? Oh dear. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

115. Huh? Now yr not making any sense...

What on earth are you talking about? It apepars to have zero to do with what I said in my post...

[pnwmom]

127. I'm quoting you; maybe you should read your own post. But people who feel shaky on logic

often engage in personal attacks on others. I'm done.

[Violet_Crumble]

140. You weren't quoting me as I never said that, nor did I personally attack you...

I gave you examples of where you had been speculating in this thread, and don't think that believing that some revolting creature who not only abandons a child she adopted, but unoficially deports him, is a piece of crap isn't a personal attack on you unless you are that woman...

[Tumbulu]

150. 7 yr old children are not put on long flights like that all alone every day- are you crazy?

Only a very cruel person would do that to a child.

This person has proven herself to be a liar (telling the child he was going on an adventure?!!!) and putting him on a plane with strangers for at least 12 hours.

What is your issue that you are so stuck on defending her actions?

And why didn't she go and meet this child before adopting him? What a bizarre thing to do, adopt a 7 yr old without having spent any time with him.

[Pithlet]

152. I can't even imagine what that would be like.

For a seven year old to be on a twelve hour flight all alone, and then met at the airport by a stranger. A stranger that even his parents don't know and have never met and found on the internet. Sick doesn't even describe it.

[Tumbulu]

153. especially if he is disturbed as claimed

I just am sick thinking about the whole thing.

[mod mom]

53. I don't understand how this could even happen after going through the ordeal of sending my kids

(ages 11 & 13 yo at the time) to visit their uncle w/o parental escort and that was only a little over an 1 hour flight.

It is really horrible. I hope this woman faces child abandonment charges.

[cali]

55. the parents should be criminally charged

[MindandSoul]

57. This "mother" is the one with severe psychopatic issues!

What does she think? That adoption is a "mail order with satisfaction guarantee or your money back?"

There is no way to tell what your child will be like, even if it is your natural born child. . .
I do not blame the Russian authorities for being angry and thinking twice at sending more children to us!

[Michigan-Arizona]

60. They could have sent him to my daughter in Michigan!

My daughter would have taken him in a heartbeat no matter what is problem's were. She refuse's to have kid's of her own(she doesn't want to have her own because she feel's there are so many unwanted kids out there that could use a loving home) & want's to foster as many as she can & I know she will adopt as many as she can to. Health, race, etc.. mean's nothing to her! She feel's & does the same with unwanted pet's(always broke putting her money into getting them spayed & neutered, & trying to find wonderful home's for some of them, even though she'd keep everyone of them if she could!!! So sad what this woman did to this child.

[patrice]

62. Cry for the child. Similar to some foreign exchange students. Our family has encountered, and in one

case saved, foreign exchange students who were apparently brought over here to convert them to a certain kind of christianity, which seemed to include learning "a good work ethic", i.e. babysitting and housework.

[jberryhill]

66. Did she at least give him a pack of smokes for the flight? /nt

[cutlassmama]

72. She was a "nurse"???!!! I'd hate to have to rely on her for care. What a monster!!!

[tammywammy]

77. I wonder if he has an attachment disorder.

A neighbor said the boy was setting fires. Very sad all around.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/anger-mom-adopted-boy-back-russia/story?id=10331728&page=2

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

81. In Minnesota an adopted Russian child recently took a gun to school

and threatened a bunch of other kids. The gun didn't fire or he probably would have killed them. His adoptive parents had previously warned Social Services that he was violent and dangerous, and they feared for their safety. It was determined that he had reactive attachment disorder and fetal alcohol syndrome. The child is very disturbed; he had even tried to poison a foster parent. The people who adopted him apparently tried very hard to deal with his problems but finally had to cancel the adoption. A sad story, like the one in the OP.

http://www.startribune.com/local/east/90319512.html?elr=KArks:DCiUBcy7hUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

[Abq_Sarah]

120. That's a horrific story

Unfortunately, despite the best intentions, sometimes problems can't be fixed. At least those parents didn't put the kid on a plane to Moscow with a one-way ticket.

[knitter4democracy]

82. I've actually worked and been in a Russian orphanage.

It was during one of my trips there in college, and I will never forget that hellhole until my dying day. I wouldn't have put a dog in that place, let alone all the children who were there. They were all severely undersized, had huge issues with connecting with anyone at all, and it was all I could do not to grab the one girl who grabbed onto me and wouldn't let go and run like hell for the embassy. It took all I had in me to peel her off of me and set her back down with a hug. I still see her eyes in my nightmares.

I have worked with a family who adopted Russian children. I tried to warn the mom about language and cultural issues (was told they'd listened to some Russian tapes and were fine--it takes decades to master that language) and that attachment disorder was common, as were many other health problems. When the children finally came, I spoke with them at church that summer until I went back to college and always made sure to talk with them whenever I came home. The elder son would start pouring out his soul in Russian (he had a terrible time picking up English, as he was older and had other issues), and I would just listen and give him a hug. The younger daughter had an easier time, as she apparently had been in a different orphanage that was somewhat better--they'd had to track down her brother.

Attachment disorder is massively common, as are many other mental issues. These kids were raised in hell, and while getting them out is miraculous, the parents need to realize what they're getting into and prepare for it. They need to study the culture and language at the very least, and they have to have training on how to raise children who have been abused and neglected all their lives.

[DailyGrind51]

85. This rejection is not likely to help the poor kid's emotional development either!

He needed compassion, and this is what he received? Damn those people!

[pnwmom]

90. Compassion is wonderful, but not everyone can deal with a severely disturbed

child, especially one with a history of starting fires. This 26 year old mother should have been informed of his history before she adopted him.

I'm not going to judge that family without knowing a lot more facts.

[Bluerthanblue]

93. I'm going to judge the fact that this 7 yr. old was put on a plane like

a piece of luggage and returned as defective-

NO PARENT of any 7yr.old would ever do such a thing and not expect to be arrested and charged for child endangerment/criminal negligence.

I understand that there were serious issues concerning his behaviour, but as the CAREGIVERS the mom, and grandmother KNEW better.

There is NO excuse for what they did. NONE. A failed adoption is one thing, abandoning a child like this is quite another.

[Violet_Crumble]

98. Couldn't have put it better myself...

There is NO excuse for what they did. NONE. A failed adoption is one thing, abandoning a child like this is quite another.

Exactly....

[pnwmom]

101. What would support the child endangerment charges?

It is legal to pay a fee and put a 7 year on a flight. The parents had also arranged with a lawyer to have the child met by a man on the other end, who took the boy directly to the Ministry for children. The boy wasn't discovered wandering around the airport, as some of the accounts imply.

[Violet_Crumble]

105. Are you a lawyer?

You seem to be trying to argue that the woman did nothing that she could be charged for (note that the poster yr replying to didn't confine it to child endangerment). I would imagine that you not having enough facts to pass judgement wouldn't be in any sort of position to know whether she did anything she can be charged over...

I'm curious. Based on what you've read, can you understand why most DUers in this thread find that woman's treatment of that little boy horrific?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

123. This child is a US CITIZEN

and became such the moment he was presented at immigration upon arrival in the United States - the jurisdiction is with the State of Tennessee, not the Russian Ministry of Children.

You can't deport your kids!

This is right up there with that freeper psychotic in San Diego who "deported" his former sister-in-law.

[azurnoir]

132. Thank you no one here seemed to recognize that fact

whether or not they approved of the Mom

[Pithlet]

151. On edit, it's not clear if the adoption was final.

IF it wasn't, than he wasn't a US citizen, and she didn't legally abandon him. Then there may not have been any US laws broken per the article. . I still think it makes her a total heartless idiot jackass who harmed that boy may have made it that much harder for others to adopt. It was still a terrible thing for her to do of course. She didn't even take him to a psychyatrist or any counseling.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

156. The adoption was finalized in Russia

You can't depart with the child without it being finalized, further at that time the mother would have been presented with a new birth certificate identifying herself as the mother. The child became a US citizen immediately upon arrival in the United States.

The Child Citizenship Act recognizes most foreign adoption decrees.

There are two exceptions which do not apply in this circumstance.

1. The child has not yet been adopted and enters on a visa for the purposes of adoption, citizenship is then granted upon finalization of the adoption.
2. The adopting parents are not or only one parent is present at the port of entry, in which case re-adoption is required and a new state adoption decree.

The first is pretty unusual except in refugee situations and the second doesn't apply because the mother is a single mother and she presented the child at immigration.

[Pithlet]

167. I'm going by what's in the article, and the authorities investigating say they don't know.

And the reason I didn't know is there was that whole thing with Madonna and wanting to adopt that child she'd taken with her. She had been allowed to leave the country with him before it was final. Maybe celebrities get special treatment then. To clarify, I am absolutely anti-this woman, and think what she did was wrong and think she should be proscuted. In caase anyone thinks otherwise. I'm not defending her. I was merely quoting what was in the article. I thought it was absolutely clear he was a US citizen. If the people in the article saying otherwise are mistaken, that may be. Either way, I think it's just a technicality that might mean she doesn't have to pay for what she's done, unfortunately.

Edit, from the article:

Not clear if laws broken
Bob Tuke, a Nashville attorney and member of the American Academy of Adoption Attorneys, said abandonment charges against the family could depend on whether the boy was a U.S. citizen.

It wasn't clear if the adoption had become final but a Tennessee health department spokeswoman said there was no birth certificate issued for the boy, a step that would indicate he had become a U.S. citizen.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

170. We are talking about Russia

In Russia adopting parents go before a judge to finalize the adoption before leaving.

The issue being discussed in the article is irrelevant - the process being described is called re-adoption, in which the adopting family obtains an adoption decree from a US court and is irrelevant for the purposes of the Child Citizenship Act since the Child Citizenship Act recognizes most foreign adoption decrees. Since the law changed in 2001 it isn't really necessary to go through the costly formalities at the state level.

[Violet_Crumble]

97. Why are you taking what the woman who dumped that child said as being factual?

There's absolutely no evidence to suggest the boy is disturbed, and a woman capable of dumping a child that way isn't something who I'd rate too highly when it comes to believing what she said...

You claim not to want to judge the woman, but all you've done from the start in this thread is defend her, so clearly you are passing judgement....

[pnwmom]

102. How do you know there is no evidence? The woman says that she hadn't been

informed that the boy had previously set fire to a building in Russia. Do you have proof that that is a lie? Do you have proof that they lied when they said he had tried to start a fire in his bedroom?

The truth is that NONE of us know the facts. And I'm not willing to judge this woman until we know a lot more than we do now.

I'm not passing judgment; I'm saying it is premature for ANYONE to pass judgment.

[Violet_Crumble]

104. Because there's none in the OP or any other article posted, that's why...

Yr the one claiming the boy was disturbed, and yr claim seems to be based totally on accepting the word of a sick individual who treats children like they're something that can be returned to a store. Where's the evidence that the boy was disturbed? Or don't you need facts before you try to pass something off as 'fact' as you did in this case?

As you've been told before, there is nothing that justifies what that woman did to that child, just like there's nothing that justifies abusing a child. In fact, if you were sitting in a thread about an American child that had been abused saying 'I'm saying it is premature for ANYONE to pass judgment', I'd be just as surprised as I am seeing you do it now...

I'm not sure at all how you could read what that woman did and come away from it trying to defend her the way you are.

[pnwmom]

107. The lack of evidence in the media now doesn't constitute proof of anything. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

108. You don't seem to be understanding that the woman making a claim doesn't make it a fact...

You made a claim that the child was disturbed and that claim was based solely on the word of that woman. I'm not sure why you took anything she said as being fact given the way she's treated that child...

Of course if you have anything other than the word of a disgusting individual like her to back up yr claims, feel free to share them...

[pnwmom]

111. Of course I do. That's why I say we don't know the truth. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

114. Then you should stick to facts and not make unsubstantiated accusations about the child n/t

[azurnoir]

133. there is something that only one poster has pointed out

the child is an American citizen he is no longer Russian this so called mom took unilateral legal actions that she has absolutely no right to take it does not really matter one way or the other about his medical and /or psychological problems he is still her responsibility and if she can not or will not care for him then it is up to the US to do so not Russia if she wanted to relinquish the child there are agencies here in the US that should have been engaged but if she had done there would also have been some investigation in to her family life and her other children which is what IMO she was avoiding the women NEEDS to be investigated this child was not a defective part or appliance that she can simply return

[Tumbulu]

154. I keep wondering how the child went through customes

what sort of passport did he have? And who helped him through all those lines? And who took him to the bathroom and made sure he washed up and brushed his teeth? Who read to him and told him stories and showed him stuff out the window? Traveling with my normal daughter is exhausting beyond words, how was this done?

[Art_from_Ark]

155. Most likely, he still had a Russian passport

The one he arrived in the US with.

Airlines have programs where you can pay an additional fee to make sure an unaccompanied minor is taken care of during a flight.

I have seen airline staff accompany an otherwise unaccompanied minor through customs, so I will assume that's how it was done there.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

157. he is still a Russian citizen

There isn't a country on earth that allows for children to renounce their citizenship (sorry birthers) the US does not however endorse dual citizenship and for the purposes of US law he is a US citizen only. For the purposes of criminal charges she deliberately abandoned her child, a US citizen in a foreign country

[DailyGrind51]

125. So, you just put the kid on a plane by himself and ship him back?

I'm sorry, a child is not a "shelter-dog" with an undisclosed case of fleas.

[Pithlet]

148. This woman is a criminal. She found a stranger on the internet to meet him there, for goodness sake

That little boy could have just disappeared, never to be seen again. Why this monster hasn't been dragged off in cuffs yet for severe criminal negelect and child endangerment is beyond me. I could no more fathom doing this to any child, for any reason. There is no defense for it. When I read the details, it broke my heart.

[Diclotican]

86. Contrary1

Contrary1

This is horrible in so many ways... To claim that she could not take it anymore, and that she had been mislead by the russians, because the kid had more problems than it was promised.... Listen lady. THIS KID ARE ON A ORPHANAGE FOR A REASON.. And good know what he had experienced before he got to a orphanage at all..

I'm really, really upset by this, maybe because it hit little to close to comfort for me.. Myself have had fosterparets for the most of my life, and have today, far better connection with my foster family, than I have with my own family.. And both me and my brother - who I'm close to by the way, had our issues, and our handicaps, who our foster parents got to know, just slowly as we got to know them. The only thing they did know, is that we have had some problems where we had been before. for an instance I was scared to death my first Christmas, because they had a bottle of Wine on the table - I feared that they should begin to fight - as my own family had been doing when they had a bottle or two at the table..They even had to show me how mutch/little they had had the next day, just to prove that they had not been drinking to much!! And that was just the start of a deep poodle of problems they discovered as we aged, and more and more of the "problems" was coming to surface.. and just slowly, slowly was beginning to mastering all my problems - and to connect to others as an normal... And yes, I did many, many things that was given my foster parents many gray hears over the years.. After I was grown up, I have been told that they was not sure what to do with us the first couple of years because the problems we had, was rather servere... And at one point they almost was given up because of it. But they did not, and for that I'm really thankfully, maybe more than I can tell.... I'm thinking to call "home" later in the day, just to se how things are home....

What this woman, who just gave back the kid as a used merchandise is ugly, stupid, and she SHOULD face some form of prosecution, for sending a mer 7 year old kid thousand of km away to a country he maybe not really know - with a note that she was not happy with the "merchandise" she got... When you get a child from a orphanage, you can not just believe you have a children who have no damage... And one thing is sure,

And it is maybe worst for the kid, who maybe was starting to "grow" into his new home, and maybe even start trusting the grown up around him.. Good know what this child is experiencing now, and what feeling he have inside, even tho he have mental problems... Poor, poor kid I say... And Fuck the "mother".. When you ADOPT a child, you ARE responsible for everything, and cant just give the child away as a used merchandise you doesn't want any more... Shame of you damit..

Diclotican

[Blue_Tires]

146. Excellent insights

Good to hear from you again, Diclotican

[Tumbulu]

163. I agree so much with you and thank you for writing

with such feeling.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

87. To those against international adoptions

When I knew I was going to have my hysterectomy and never be able to have a biological child, I looked into adoption through the foster care system. I was so excited that I was going to be a mom. I wasn't looking for a newborn or a Caucasian child. My boyfriend and I got in touch with the North Carolina DHS and we got referred to a non-profit that handles adoption courses for the State. I was so excited I was going to start the process, occasionally perusing the photo listings showing all these beautiful faces looking for a parent.

My boyfriend and I have known each other since 1996 and have lived together for 3 years. Our incomes are good and steady; our lives are boring and calm. We would have made terrific parents. Instead, just as I was recovering from my hysterectomy - and having to deal with the emotional side effects as well as the physical scars - I was told that we could not adopt, because the state of NC doesn't allow adoptions to unmarried cohabitating couples.

Even if we were married, we'd have to wait 1 year before beginning the process. In other words, I could be a single parent bringing home a different guy/gal every night and I could adopt, but two loving people like us cannot. Obviously, this is done to prevent same-sex couples from adopting.

So, what's someone like us supposed to do? We don't have the money, but we can understand those who decide to go overseas and adopt, because the system is so screwed up. Sure, there are plenty of kids in the U.S. who need help, but the laws are certainly not helping out those who, like me, don't want/need to get married.

As to the case at hand, I feel that there is nothing a child could do - biological or adopted - to warrant sending him back on a plane picked up by strangers. Even if the child had psychotic tendencies, she could have placed him in a facility or even dropped him off in an ER somewhere. But the act of purchasing a one-way ticket and arranging for a pick-up by a total stranger is despicable to me.

A child is not a toy or a defective item you can return with a receipt for store credit. No matter what the problems with this child are, the actions his 'mother' took are revolting on a variety of levels, including the additional psychological trauma to this poor child.

[pnwmom]

109. I'm not certain she could have placed the boy in a facility here.

I think the legalities are pretty complicated. I've heard about other parents who adopted children from other countries who had severe problems that were not acknowledged, and the parents had few options.

[Violet_Crumble]

117. Even if she tried and couldn't, that doesn't justify what she did to him n/t

[kentuck]

113. Wow! Like the kid was a small electronic device from Radio Shack...

It didn't work the way it was "supposed" to, so it was simply returned.

[Rex]

116. The child is for sure mentally unstable NOW.

Wow, I hope she goes to prison for this.

[Swamp Rat]

119. poor child

:cry:

[OneBlueSky]

121. the lack of compassion by some people can be absolutely astounding . . .

apparently this person thinks adopting a kid is like getting a puppy from the local shelter . . . if it doesn't work out, you just return it . . . I can't imagine the psychological impact this kind of rejection will have on this kid . . . that lady should be jailed for blatant cruelty to another human being . . .

[TankLV]

131. Actually - that IS exactly the case! I went to adoption/foster classes

and found this tidbit to be true!!!

YOU CAN "RETURN" CHILDREN JUST LIKE A PET STORE ANIMAL - EVEN AFTER THEY ARE OFFICIALL ADOPTED!!!

Even after a couple of years!

I thought the process was "final" once it all was completed!

such a fucking shame for the child - to be treated like a dog or worse...

[SoCalDem]

126. I find it odd that the airline would have been okay with this "plan".

It's not all that easy these days to even have unaccompanied minors on-board..especially on long international flights with customs to navigate.


Also, everyone we ever knew who adopted kids from foreign countries had EXTENSIVE pre-adoption sessions with shrinks & child psychologists & all kinds of screening..

This may not have been a very reputable adoption.. something smells here..

[TankLV]

130. It's horrible on both sides - for the family and the child.

Seems the child was dealt a bad hand from the get-go - and the child and innocent parents also were left to deal with it all.

If this is a problem - why isn't there a set-up to deal with it at local/state/national levels where parents can turn to for assistance/guidance.

This is bad no matter which view you look at it...

[Shell Beau]

143. I don't care what was "wrong" with this child.

Being that age, and being shipped back with a one way ticket is WRONG. If you decide you don't want the child anymore (terrible enough) that is one issue, but to send this child back like he was a return at a clothing store, is gross. Gross. Gross. Gross. Show some human decency, even if it wasn't what you bargained for. A child's life depends on it. A child you took in. A child you wanted. I hope this doesn't screw him up for life. Good God.

[Liberal_in_LA]

175. news said 3 families have volunteered to adopt him.

[Matariki]

158. Mike Huckabee should personally tell her that children aren't puppies

:(

[mnhtnbb]

160. Notice where the failed adoptions are located: Tennessee, Virginia, Utah

I'd wager that the failures have something to do with right wing Christian parenting
behaviors.

[marshall]

168. And note that this adoption was a single parent adoption

That has to be a very difficult situation, and one which the single parent should investigate every avenue open to him or her.

[Juche]

165. Meh. The kid was an asshole

Yeah he was 7, but if you actually read up on what he did (drew pictures of the house burning down and threatening to kill the entire family, attacking people with weapons) I can't really get mad at the adopting family for getting rid of him. Someone should've flown back with him though. But I wouldn't want to put up with someone who was threatening to kill me either.

[bernynhel]

174. ban-schman

This kid had a seat in the passenger cabin, after all, not a crate in the cargo bin. I suppose the Hanson's didn't include a due bill for expenses incurred including possible damages while young Artyom was under their care? Pinned to the child's lapel, perhaps? Had he actually been "shipped" via UPS, C.O.D., I might be a little less puzzled about all the outrage.

I think these countries should put all of their available kids in a catalog like Lands End with a finite price list and a no fault, money back guarantee against any and all defects. If international child adoption were a for-profit business as it should be, competition and naturally occurring market fluctuations would ensure a better value for prospective parents (customers) as well as better care (upkeep) for the child (product). Instead they act like they're doing prospective U.S. parents a favor. When's the last time a Vladivostok couple flew to Detroit in search of a child to adopt? Ban future U.S. adoptions, indeed! I pity the fool who made that decision once Angelina hears about it!