On the breaking Pope revelation just now, this atheist has wise advice for all churches:

[Poll_Blind]

Please put kind, compassionate, humble, imaginative, loving, moral men and women at the heads of your churches. Build your religions on those who are courageous enough to do the right but unpopular thing as opposed to those who fear rocking the boat to the point that they won't bother to pull drowning parishioners into it.

The point of any church's clergy is to set a good example.

'member?

Do not put install politicians there. Do not install "company men" there. Do not install the power-hungry, the prideful, the literalists, the incurious, or anything of the sort.

Your religious movement will be healthier for it. Those who do not follow your religion will breathe a little easier.

Pope Benedict hit by new Church child abuse allegation

PB

[virgogal]

1. Women in charge would improve things greatly IMHO.

[crim son]

2. Men and women are equally capable of nonsense.

Does Sarah Palin ring a bell?

[Poll_Blind]

5. I agree- sex is no guarantee of anything. n/t

PB

[Warpy]

7. Or Phyllis Schlafly

or any of the other Gorgons of the far right.

While Rome should be repudiated and the priesthood opened to both sexes as it was likely intended to be in the earliest years, I don't think women as a whole are superior. We have too many present examples of monsters.

Opening the priesthood to married people of both sexes would have a liberalizing effect on the church's harshest teachings regarding women.

[Generic Brad]

19. Last time I checked, she was not an expert on bells either.

[msanthrope]

10. You think Catholic nuns didn't abuse those in their power, rampantly?

magdalene laundries

Google it.

[Mojeoux]

20. Sinead Oconnor got sent to one. Check out her recent letter.

Remember when she ripped up a photo of the last pope?

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/.../AR2010032502363.html

[truedelphi]

3. You never hear it discussed that not only was there damage done to the actual victims

By the pedophile priests - but also that by having these people be the main person that anyone in the parish could approach for solace and/or counseling when experiencing difficulties - these priests often didn't care to spend time with you because they were too busy recruiting their victims.

[FarCenter]

4. People who are "humble" will never rise to be a head of a church

If they appear humble, you can be sure that it is just a pose.

Church politics (or politics of any kind) does not reward humility.

[malaise]

6. DIng ding we have a winner

It's always politics.

[Poll_Blind]

8. I was thinking about that. There is at least one Catholic Saint canonized recently who...

...was extremely humble, selfless and among all criteria set forth by the Catholic Church was essentially a "shoe-in". Can't recall his name, I think he was canonized in 2002-ish. I think he was from South America.

But I doubt he would have risen far in the Church, itself.

Given the nature of their particular message, maybe it's time to rethink what makes the head of a church should be. What if it was an unshaven ascetic, prone to rocking the boat and calling a spade a spade, but who had absolutely no tolerance for corruption within it?

Like that Jesus guy, for example.

He'd be sweeping the floors. I have little doubt he'd punch a pedophile priest in the face and it'd take a couple of bishops to pull him off. If he went apeshit on the moneylenders I can only imagine how he'd react to child victimization.

PB

[aquart]

14. Jesus was not actually that humble.

John 12:8 New International Version (©1984)
"You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me."

Matthew 26:11 New International Version (©1984)
"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me."

An assumption of personal specialness, as opposed to the undifferentiated, undying, unimportant, unending poor. Immediately after that breathtaking arrogance, Judas sells him to the Romans for one-tenth the value of the expensive oil used to anoint him.

[druidity33]

16. remember though

that our current bibles are a result of a purge of some of the more beatific versions of Christ. The orthodox church and the first convocations eradicated the Essenes and the Gnostics as well as other Christian sects that believed one didn't need A CHURCH to worship God. It wasn't until the "orthodox" Christians co-opted the Roman Empire (and made it "Holy") that the truly varied interpretations of Christ and his life were eradicated completely. We were lucky to have found the Dead Sea Scrolls...

Highly recommended reading, The Dark Side of Christian History by Helen Ellerbe.

As for your quote(s), well, that just seems honest. Not necessarily humble or prideful, just honest. Which is what i would expect to hear from Jesus.

:shrug:

[aquart]

21. Honest?

To rate only his own individuality as meaningful? To treat the poor, not as suffering individuals, but as an amorphous, unfeeling lump who need not be considered when anyone more important is around?

What I remember is that Judas heard this and immediately went out and sold him for a tenth of the value of the oil wasted on him.

[druidity33]

22. what you quoted

doesn't say what you're implying here. Why shouldn't he rate his own individuality as meaningful? He claimed to be the SON OF GOD, fer chrissakes... what he doesn't say is ONLY his own meaning is important.

Your impression of Christs assessment of the poor is unfounded as well.

I'm a Druid, but i know enough of the bible to know that Jesus was a pretty cool dude. Even though it's not a historically accurate depiction, it captures the affect he had on the people of the time. He loved the poor and destitute more than anyone else...

So, what, you got a beef with Jesus? Or just feel like arguing with someone?


I :shrug: again...

[Canuckistanian]

17. Well then, that means that the lowliest priests may be more deserving of the papacy

And yet, it's those priests who do the buggering of children.

Hmmmmm.....

I guess the whole church is rotten to the core.

[Walk away]

9. Here is some advise from another Atheist. Stop lying and shut your doors.

I'm sure that the heads of all of these religions know that they are pedaling a load of bunk to the faithful. Take pity on these poor sheep and tell them the truth and then go jump in the lake.

[FarCenter]

11. No large, powerful, and profitable organization goes out of business voluntarily

just because top management knows they are peddling a destructive product.

For example, the tobacco companies.

[Walk away]

12. Cigarettes? Almost as repulsive and dangerous as religion.

Too bad there isn't a quit god worship patch.

[FarCenter]

13. An exorcism of the second kind, as it were.

[EFerrari]

15. Upon this rock.

Oops.

[MindandSoul]

18. Great advice!

[DailyGrind51]

23. Permitting married and women priests would discourage "therapeutic" vocations.

Some see the priesthood as therapy for their own sexual confusion, like others see law enforcement as a means to express their anger.