Why, as a progressive Democrat, I'm thankful for Libertarians

[Pushed To The Left]

They take votes away from Republicans while at the same time fighting for some of the same socially progressive causes that we Democrats and progressives fight for. If the Libertarian Party became strong enough and won over enough Republicans, perhaps it would eventually lead to a one-on-one matchup between Democrats and Libertarians, which would force Democrats to be more socially liberal.

[paulsby]

1. i can agree with this

and i can generally stomach libertarian minded repubs (or dems) far more than statist dems or repubs

get the govt. the fuck out of our bloodstreams, bedrooms, etc.

stop using the commerce clause as an excuse to turn the federal govt. into some behemoth

[bobbolink]

2. So, you want to do away with Medicare, food stamps, subsized housing, etc?

THOSE "progressive" causes?

Or do you only care about weed?

[tmyers09]

3. That's a little bit short-changing, no?

Same sex marriage and excessive military spending are some other causes. Like most entities, they have some good ideas, and some bad ideas.

[bobbolink]

4. Yet, the issues that would cost poor people their lives just don't really matter much.

So, use all the belittling words you wish.... then wonder why you don't see the number of votes you want to see.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pushed To The Left]

6. When did I say I was a Libertarian or agreed with them on the issues you mentioned?

If you read my post, you'll see that I'm simply showing how their existence helps us strategically. I do respect them for their activism on socially liberal causes, but I don't agree with them on the issues you mentioned.

[bobbolink]

7. I'd be happy to trade places with you. YOU be poor and homeless for a while,

and see how it feels to be IGNORED.

Tell me when you see how poverty is a BIG ISSUE with Dems, and becomes a "social issue". It doesn't happen. So, when you say you agree with them on social issues, guess how it comes across?

Is there enough compassion in you to walk in the shoes of another person for a bit?

[Pushed To The Left]

10. You are totally misunderstanding my post

I am a progressive Democrat. Issues of poverty are very important to me. I am not advocating that progressives should join the Libertarian Party. I am showing how the existence of Libertarians can help us by WEAKENING REPUBLICANS which, in turn, will cause DEMOCRATS TO WIN, which will lead to more being done to FIGHT POVERTY!

If all I cared about were social issues (rather than economic ones) I wouldn't be a progressive Democrat. I think the fact that a wealthy country like the US has people living in poverty is inexcusable, and it needs to be changed. We're on the same side bobbolink.

[bobbolink]

11. So, you never said you agreed with some of their "social issues"?

You are shouting because you want to... I have done nothing to you except try to get you to understand what its like to be in MY shoes.

A "progressive" would understand that concept.

It really doesn't take that much.

But, if it makes you feel better, just keep yelling. That will definitely "get through" to me. :sarcasm:

[Pushed To The Left]

13. I apologize for the tone at the end of my post. I have edited, though I still have the caps for

emphasis.

I've never been homeless, but I have thought about what people have to go through in that situation, and it shouldn't be that way. More needs to be done to fight poverty. When I mention "social issues", I'm talking about issues like same sex marriage, abortion rights, drug policy, etc. where liberals and libertarians agree. If I didn't care about issues where liberals and libertarians don't agree--fighting poverty, ending the Bush tax cuts, more funding for schools, etc--I wouldn't be a progressive Democrat and wouldn't be involved in many of the issues that I support.

We're on the same side here.

[bobbolink]

15. thank you for understanding. That was all that was needed. It always gets left out.

[Pushed To The Left]

17. I can see how that would be frustrating

:hug:

[bobbolink]

18. thank you. I'll tell you about it sometime.

It's also very scary.

:pals:

[bobbolink]

16. .

once was sufficient.

[pinto]

8. It's an interesting political concept, that Libertarian opposition to progressive federal programs

would provide an opening for Dems at large to cite, and act on, clear support for those programs without the need to counter Republican counter proposals.

I don't think we'll see Libertarians out polling Repubs any time soon, but an interesting concept for discussion.

[Chulanowa]

9. Actually their existence is not helpful at all

Libertarians are never as socially liberal as they are economically fascist. Uoutside of a few liberals who are mixed up, you will never, NEVER find a libertarian who is more concerned with social issues than they are with total privatization, economic destruction of other nations, and other Rand-inspired hooliganism. The weed, the gay rights, and all of that is just polish on a big turd.

Thus they have a net effect of either skewing politics to the right, or encouraging apathetic turnout from hte left

[bobbolink]

12. Very well said. Too bad it doesn't seem to sink in to the Ron Paul crowd.

Thank you.

[Chulanowa]

19. Y'welcome

I might mock conservatives and republicans, but I've got no goddamned tolerance for libertarians - whether they're "big L" or "little l." Even at their best, they've got the right ideas for the wrong reasons, confusing selfishness with social justice.

[bobbolink]

20. "Confusing selfishness with social justice." Beautifully said!

That's quotable.. may I?

[Chulanowa]

21. Go for it

[dajoki]

22. The wealthy actually...

recieve more subsidies than the poor, but we don't hear any complaigning about that.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/dajoki/96

[bobbolink]

24. Exactly! The Housing Subsidy of the Wealthy is many, many times that of

subsidized housing for poor folk!

Good point!

Thank you for your journal entry.... VERY good! Too bad its not something that is widely known and widely quoted by "progressives". :(

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. I've seen some Libertarians

that are a whole hell of a lot more progressive than some Dems. Of course, I don't give a fuck about party labels.....

[HughBeaumont]

25. They definitely ain't in Ohio.

Pretty much every Libertarian I've ever met are social Penn Jillette types and more economically fascist than your average Reaganite Republican. The comedic Disaster Corporatist theories they'll trip over themselves to defend are unbelievable.

[NNN0LHI]

23. Every Libertarian I have known was just a Republican who smoked pot

And when the election came they voted for the Republican candidates every time.

Don