Any DUers raising their children as vegetarians or vegans?

[skipos]

This article got me thinking...
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13245543/detail.html

I have been a vegetarian for 15 years, as my body doesn't seem to be meant to eat meat (I remember burping up steak a day after I had eaten it). I am not sure how much a growing child may need animal products though. Anyone with experience in this matter?

[El Supremo]

1. No, just cannibals.

:yoiks:

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. Not as an infant, but he's a vegetarian now and he's 14 years old.

Why couldn't that mother just breast feed the baby? He was only 6 weeks old. AND, even if he was bottle fed, they don't eat solid foods until they're older. I don't know that vegetarianism is the cause here. Neglect, maybe, but a six week old wouldn't be fed vegetables anyway.

[skipos]

3. When did he become one? How did that go?

It's one of these things I am going to have to figure out with my kids someday since I am a vegetarian.

[in_cog_ni_to]

8. About a year ago. He's doing well. He eats a lot of soy. Drinks soy milk, eats a lot of veggies

pasta, rice and beans. He's not Vegan though. He will eat Vegetarian eggs and drink cow milk occasionally, but we mostly drink soy milk. He eats fruit and takes a daily vitamin. He's doing really well on it and gets PLENTY to eat. He never leaves the table hungry.

[Matariki]

6. They were feeding him soy milk. It's just stupid. n/t

[dave_p]

17. Not necessarily

Babies can be fed soy infant formula without ill-effects. I'd say breast is best, but there may be reasons why that's impossible.

In this case the death was through under-feeding, not because of what was fed. So I'd guess it was infant formula rather than plain soy milk. It's hard to be sure from the report, though.

[yewberry]

21. There's another thread on this

in the lounge, and the article there pretty clearly states that the baby had been given soy milk (not formula) and apple juice (a diuretic).

So, you're right, the baby was completely underfed, and what little was given was entirely inappropriate.

What a horror.

[Arkansas Granny]

31. It wouldn't matter what they were feeding the baby. When you

notice that your infant is not thriving you get a health professional involved. You do not allow your infant to lose weight, whether he is fed breastmilk, standard formula or whatever, without finding out the cause. At best, this death was due to ignorance, at worst, neglect.

[yewberry]

32. I'm going with neglect.

The baby was not born in a hospital and never saw a doctor until after its death.

[Arkansas Granny]

36. I'm inclined to lean that direction, also. Poor baby.

[Matariki]

25. The article clearly states the baby was fed soy MILK and apple juice.

so it's not hard to be sure.

[Book Lover]

33. Not every mother can breastfeed

I have no idea what the specifics are in this case, but not every woman's milk comes in, nor can every breast deal with the stress of suckling. Cracked and bleeding nipples do not always respond to treatment.

[OneGrassRoot]

4. Yep, and had an 11-pounder.....lol

I had been a strict vegetarian (not vegan, however) for several years before having my now 14-year-old daughter. Surrounded by meat-eaters who just KNEW something was wrong with being a vegetarian while pregnant, I simply made sure I ate a very healthy diet. Had I craved meat, I probably would have had it, as I know the body speaks to us, especially during such significant times of pregnancy when our needs change.

Not only was she healthy, she weighed 11 lbs., 23 inches. I breast fed for one year until she weaned herself. She has been a vegetarian her entire life, and is adamant about continuing to do so. In a HEALTHY way. She is actually on the thin side now which is in keeping with her dad's side of the family whom she favors (for those who were afraid she would be overweight based on her birth weight...lol).

I, however, can no longer say I'm vegetarian. As of six months or so ago, I found that I crave fish. Once every few weeks or so, but I CRAVE it. I've taken the omega vitamins but that doesn't seem to quell it. I believe my body needs something that it wasn't getting, and I don't have a problem paying attention to that. Probably something to do with a damn premenopausal state. :eyes:

[Matariki]

5. my former brother in law and his wife raise their kids vegan

they're both healthy teenagers now and have been vegan ALL their lives, although they both got breast milk - something glaringly missing in the case of the people in that article - who btw were more stupid than malicious i think.

on the other hand my former brother in law has developed Crohn's disease and I suspect his diet isn't really working for him. A vegan diet takes a lot more work to balance and I personally think it doesn't work for everyone. I'm speaking as a onetime vegan. It *really* didn't work for me - I was anemic and tired all the time, but somehow deluded myself into thinking I was super healthy and full of energy LOL.

[mudesi]

7. No offense to vegans, but veganism is a form of religion

As such, there is no scientific basis to make the claim that humans are not animal eaters, since the reality is that humans are omnivores. (ie. Humans are both meat and plant eaters).

Anyone who has read my posts in the Religion/Theology forum knows my views on religious belief vs. actual fact, and it is my opinion that veganism is a form of religion in the sense that people believe something that is factually inaccurate. It may not be a deity you believe in, but it is a false belief, nonetheless.

One needs only open their mouth to see evidence of the fact that we are meat eaters as well as plant eaters, as we have teeth meant to chew meat (canines, incisors) and plants (molars). Our intestines are also evolved in order to digest meat.

The fact is we are animals, too, and some animals eat other animals. This, by the way, has nothing to do with the morality and ethics of inhumane treatment or intentional infliction of suffering on animals for our own materialism.

[yewberry]

18. There are plenty of reasons to be vegan

which have nothing whatsoever to do with the shape of your teeth or your opinion of what human intestines are best suited to digest.

There are facts which may lead people to veg*nism and there are philosophies which may lead people to veg*nism. What are the "false belief" sets for people who become veg*n for ethical, health, or environmental reasons?

No offense meant.

[Matariki]

22. As a personal ethical decision sure. But as a nutritional decision, 'false belief' is accurate

and vegan's religious zeal makes discussing nutrition with them sort of like talking to a republican.

that's not to say a vegan can't eat a healthy diet, just that it's not the superior diet vegan's think it is.

[Beaverhausen]

29. Oh yeah, like you can have a discussion with meat eaters

:eyes:

some meat eaters display just as much "religious zeal" as some vegetarians. They tend to be very closed minded and won't even listen to the many reasons some people choose to stop eating meat.

It goes both ways.

[yewberry]

30. Well, that's offensive.

Thanks.

I'm not religious, I'm not a zealot, and I'm certainly not a republican. There are health reasons for becoming vegan whether or not you choose to believe it.

[flvegan]

44. Then let's talk nutrition.

You opened your mouth, put your money in it.

[Maru Kitteh]

40. I would agree with you, if you were right.

In our case you are not. Our dietary habits formed mostly as an extension of our effort to reduce our carbon footprint and to counteract our genetic tendencies for certain diseases. In researching our new dietary lifestyle these decisions were reinforced by a desire not to contribute in any way to the horrific abject cruelty that is the meat and animal industry.

[Matariki]

41. Those are very worthy objectives

kudos to you.

[flvegan]

42. At least you acknowledge that it's little more than opinion.

Outside of that? If you sleep better at night with THAT justification, then okay.

[AndreaCG]

43. No offense my buns

I'm a vegan and I consider it the closest I get to being religious. HOWEVER, I try not to preach because I don't like to be preached at.

YOU earned a short sermon, though. Humans can thrive with no animal products, and there is no doubt being a vegetarian or vegan is better for the earth. For example, it takes 20 pounds of feed to produce one pound of cow flesh. In the majority of cases, that means grain and corn, which could be consumed by starving humans arouynd the world. Of course this doesn't take into account that large meat producers are feeding naturally vegetarian animals ground up animal. This is especially dangerous when they include parts of the nervous system.

As for denying that we are omnivores, I've never done that. But is it better for the self and environment to eschew animal products? Hell yes.

End of sermon.

[Orangepeel]

9. not me, but millions of Indians do it without problems.

I'm not a vegetarian and I don't have kids, but I don't know why anybody would think that people (including kids) need meat. Millions of people around the world live fine on a vegetarian diet.

I eat meat, because I like it and I want to, but nobody needs it.

[AlienGirl]

10. Two healthy vegan pregnancies, two healthy vegetarian kids

My kids are lacto-ovo vegetarians because of hard-core cheese addiction, but until they were four and six, respectively, they were vegans. The younger one just turned nine today. Both are healthy, normal weight for their height, and in the gifted program.

There is no reason a vegan can't breastfeed, or, if that doesn't work, use soy formula to feed an infant. (I did both.) And, tragically, there are plenty of omnivore parents who starve their kids to death. This is a child neglect issue, not a "veganism" issue.

Tucker

[Matariki]

13. you used soy formula - seriously?

that does NOT sound like a very good idea.

[AlienGirl]

14. Soy formula, NOT "soy milk." And he's 11 and fine.

[Matariki]

19. what exactly is the difference?

what's in soy formula?

[AlienGirl]

23. A human baby would starve on cow's milk too; here is the difference:

Cow's milk, as it comes out of the cow, is a complete diet for a growing baby calf, just as human milk is for a growing baby human. But for a baby human to survive on cow's milk, it has to have a lot of sugar, fats, vitamins, and iron added to it.

Soy milk, like Edensoy or Westsoy, is basically just soybeans and water. It is high in protein but not many of the other things babies need, just as cow's milk is high in protein but not the other things human babies need.

Soy formula is like soy milk to which has been added lots of sugar, fats, vitamins, and iron, making a diet suitable for human infants prior to solid foods.

Tucker

[Matariki]

26. Thanks. That makes sense.

[joshcryer]

24. Trypsin inhibitors (mess up digestion), vitamin D deficiency, phytic acid (messes up neurology)...

...low cholesterol (children need fats), phytoestrogens (mess up hormones). Can be very bad. Breast milk is almost universially the best food for babies.

[AndreaCG]

46. Not every woman is capable of producing enough breast milk to feed their child.

My friend was nursing her son and he was constantly crying. Turns out her milk production was inadequate. When she realized this, she switched to formula. Hes a very healthy and happy 3 1/2 year old now, and big for his age (not fat, just big.)

[ronnykmarshall]

11. They go hunt their own food.

I ain't paying good money to feed the little shits.

[Atman]

12. The brain needs proteins to develop.

We weren't full vegetarians...we ate some chicken, lots of fish, but no "meat," (beef, pork, etc.) But all the books we read, the advice of our pediatrician, my wife's medical school training, said that young developing brains really need the kind of proteins that meat provides. Soy beans and legumes aren't a substitute. So, we'd cook ourselves some fish, feed it to the kids most nights, but a couple of nights a week we'd make sure they got a quality steak or something.

One has grown up (21 now) to eat only hamburgers and pizza -- or spaghetti and meatballs, which are basically the same thing only different. He's an odd lot...computer geek IT guy, very set in his ways, won't try anything new. The other kid (now 19) has gone back and forth. He's an artist (like his dear ol' dad!) and has sworn off anything with a face for periods of time, sworn of just beef, sworn ON anything he likes...he' waffled all over the place, but mostly still avoids "meat." Neither of them have an ounce of fat on them, they're both healthy, both with totally different diets, and both excelled in school -- so I guess their brains got the protein.

This probably doesn't help you much, but you asked. It's tough for a kid. Peers wanna hang out at the mall food court, snarfle fries -- which is another thing; neither of my kids ever liked french fries. That, alone, was worthwhile.

.

[AndreaCG]

48. Doctors are often woefully misinformed about nutrition.

Try reading Dr. Ornish, and Dr. McDougall for another opinion. Try checking out the experiences of children raised on The Farm, a commune that's been around at least 30 years. They serve a vegan diet and the children grow up fine. Better than fine. Soybeans are complete proteins like meat, poultry and fish. Other legumes can be combined with grains to provide complete proteins, and all around the world people naturally pair things like rice and beans. Vegans do need to supplement the diet with Vitamin B-12 but that is easily done with a vitamin supplement or eating things like cereal and soy milk, both of which are fortified with B-12.

I suspect you fed your kids a heckuva lot of mercury with that emphasis on fish.

[etherealtruth]

15. Yes ...

My oldest (who is now 25) was raised a vegetarian (not a vegan, though). He now occasionally eats meat or meat products.

My 13 year old made the choice, a couple of years ago, to become a vegetarian (again, not a vegan).

My 11 year old is a carnivores carnivore.

I lacked the energy (or the where with all) to allow/encourage my children to be vegans. I was very fearful that if I didn't "get it right" that there would be consequences (ie malnutrition ... for usable proteins/amino acids ... ).

I don't doubt that it can be successfully done by one that is very committed and knowledgeable.

[Raine]

16. I've been a vegetarian since I was 7 yrs old

and now I'm in my mid 50's and perfectly heathy, actually probably healthier than many people my age. :-)

[Exultant Democracy]

20. My whole family was raised vegetarian and we are the picture of health

As we speak my little sister is climbing in the Himalayas.

We have also managed to rack up at least a bakers dozen of state championships between the three of us. (I hate saying that because I don't want to sound like I am bragging, but I think it is important for parents to know)

There is also the moral issue, a child does not know enough about what their own beliefs are going to be to make a choice like that. There are many converted vegetarians that I know who suffer from both guilt and cravings, if they had been raised vegetarian they wouldn't feel that way. If your child wants to eat meat let them make that choice themselves.

Out of all my siblings I am the only one who has never eaten meat. My little sister started eating meat at her friends houses occasionally in middle school but has since become a vegan. My little brother eats turkey every once and a while on thanksgiving and that is it.

I guess I am just rambling now. If you have any questions I am more then happy to answer, and if I don't know the answer I'll call my mom. (I've been trying to get her to put her recipes and diet suggestions on the web for years, she had a vegetarian cooking show in Ames Iowa in the early 80 on public television.)

[BlooInBloo]

27. Good god no - is that even legal?

[BadgerKid]

28. check PubMed

J Pediatr Health Care. 2006 Jan-Feb;20(1):27-34.Click here to read Links
Vegetarian eating for children and adolescents.

* Dunham L,
* Kollar LM.

Division of Adolescent Medicine, Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center, Ohio 45229, USA. [e-mail]

During the past decade, vegetarianism has risen in popularity among American families. Well-planned vegetarian diets can satisfy the nutritional needs and promote normal growth of infants and children. Research has highlighted nutritional advantages to vegetarian diets and has indicated that this style of eating can lead to lifelong healthy eating habits when adopted at a young age. Several vitamins, minerals, and macronutrients may be deficient within a vegetarian diet. Careful nutrition assessment and counseling will allow nurse practitioners to play a key role in encouraging families to adopt healthy eating habits to assist in disease prevention.


Forum Nutr. 2005;_(57)-:147-56. Related Articles, Links

Vegetarian diets: what are the advantages?

Leitzmann C.

Institute of Nutritional Sciences, University of Giessen, Giessen, Germany. [e-mail]

A growing body of scientific evidence indicates that wholesome vegetarian diets offer distinct advantages compared to diets containing meat and other foods of animal origin. The benefits arise from lower intakes of saturated fat, cholesterol and animal protein as well as higher intakes of complex carbohydrates, dietary fiber, magnesium, folic acid, vitamin C and E, carotenoids and other phytochemicals. Since vegetarians consume widely divergent diets, a differentiation between various types of vegetarian diets is necessary. Indeed, many contradictions and misunderstandings concerning vegetarianism are due to scientific data from studies without this differentiation. In the past, vegetarian diets have been described as being deficient in several nutrients including protein, iron, zinc, calcium, vitamin B12 and A, n-3 fatty acids and iodine. Numerous studies have demonstrated that the observed deficiencies are usually due to poor meal planning. Well-balanced vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including children, adolescents, pregnant and lactating women, the elderly and competitive athletes. In most cases, vegetarian diets are beneficial in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases, such as cardiovascular disease, hypertension, diabetes, cancer, osteoporosis, renal disease and dementia, as well as diverticular disease, gallstones and rheumatoid arthritis. The reasons for choosing a vegetarian diet often go beyond health and well-being and include among others economical, ecological and social concerns. The influences of these aspects of vegetarian diets are the subject of the new field of nutritional ecology that is concerned with sustainable life styles and human development.

------

My comment: I think the point is, eating vegetarian style seems feasible if some planning is taken to implement a varied diet that is enabled by the availability of food choices in today's society.

[SmokingJacket]

34. We hardly cook any meat at home, but my kids always order it when

we go out. You can raise a vegetarian child very easily... but if you go vegan, you MUST breastfeed!

[AlienGirl]

35. ...or use soy formula if you can't breastfeed.

Even if it has animal-derived vitamins in it, the baby's needs come first.

Tucker

[cliss]

37. I've got 3 teenagers.

They are all vegetarians. Two of them decided to become Vegans about 3 years ago.

I got alarmed, because they got REALLY THIN. Like, think of ribs sticking out when they took off their t-shirt. You could really see it.

After about 2 years though, they went back to a vegetarian diet. But - they're still really thin.

All 3 kids are tall, thin, but at least now they're not anorexic-looking.

I think Ya need Dairy Products to stay healthy.

[Maru Kitteh]

38. I am raising two children without animal products now

Two children who are:

ahead of their age group in academics
without allergies or any major illness (thank God)
very active and at a healthy weight

It's not that hard. I don't see what the big deal is, frankly.(concerning simply veganism or vegetarianism)

[Sabriel]

39. My 8 y.o. daughter chose to be vegetarian 15 months ago

And it's a royal pain to get her to eat a balanced diet. How many ways can you prepare tofu?

[AndreaCG]

49. A lot!

Go buy some vegetarian cookbooks, ones that specialize in tofu and other soy foods, and other ones.

However some kids are just picky eaters whether they are vegetarian or not.

[LeftyMom]

45. LeftyKid's been vegan since he was a baby.

He's big and healthy and very smart. :)

[indie_voter]

47. The baby was 6 weeks old

Did they try to nurse if they didn't want to feed him formula (soy or 'regular')? The article says 'soy milk'. You don't serve a 6 week baby anything but formula or breastmilk. The baby doesn't have teeth, can't eat solid foods.

This doesn't make sense.