If President Obama states on Thursday that he is in favor of ending the whaling moratorium

[MoonRiver]

I fear he will lose a significant portion of his base. There is no way Japan, Norway and Iceland will observe some bogus quota system. They totally ignored the moratorium, and when the door is open to massacre to extinction our earth's great whales, they will proceed to do so. I don't think President Obama wants this to be part of his legacy. Please do whatever you can to stop this horror from occurring. It's NOT TOO LATE. Contact the White House with your concerns about this issue.

[arcadian]

1. The guy is a colossal disappointment all all around.

Needs to be said.

[ncteechur]

7. Colossal? Wow, you must work for Fox News. Not just disappointing on some issues.

Not a bit disappointing here and there.

Not as liberal on some issues as I thought he would be.

Too middle of the road on too many things.


No, he is a COLOSSAL disappointment.





Get some fucking perspective.

[MineralMan]

10. So you've said...again and again.

Feh!

[stray cat]

13. I sure hope the GOP wins the next elections so they can set things right

:rofl:

[Skittles]

60. you sound like "America - love it or leave it"

no room for improvement there

[MineralMan]

63. So, you agree with Arcadian that President Obama is

a "colossal failure all around?" Is that it? Really?

[Skittles]

67. you need some critical thinking skills

BADLY

[MineralMan]

70. Actually, I need to reply to the correct post. Sorry.

I replied to the wrong post. I'm a moron in the evening...

[diamidue]

18. Actually he is quite successful

at doing what his Corporate masters tell him to do. Unfortunately that has little to do with helping the American people or being a strong voice for change. Disappointment is putting it lightly.

[cali]

36. lol.

all around? now there's a pile of dog shit.

[MineralMan]

38. A large steaming pile, I reckon...

[SidDithers]

58. Wuuuh-wuhhh....

Sid

[MineralMan]

64. Speechless, eh? I know the feeling...

[whistler162]

2. NTSA!!!!

[ClarkUSA]

3. Stop spinning his position. Facts count. NYT: "U.S. Leads New Bid to Phase Out Whale Hunting"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x269182

[RKP5637]

5. Thank you for posting this!!! n/t

[Dappleganger]

8. +1000

Sometimes the stupid really burns on this forum.

[MoonRiver]

12. In ten years the whales will be history.

And what mechanisms are in place to enforce this farce of an agreement? Obama will be signing the death warrant to our great whales on Thursday, if everything goes according to plan. My one hope is that nations around the world rebel and refuse to allow whaling in their waters, as well as promote and encourage ships from Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd to disrupt and destroy the killers' agenda.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. More nonfactual hyperbole

[MoonRiver]

19. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

The whaling barbarians have continued to kill these beautiful sentient beings despite proclamations from the IWC that they must stop. What makes you think that once whaling is officially legitimized they won't ramp up their efforts? WHO IS GOING TO STOP THEM?

[MineralMan]

23. Well, I certainly agree with the title of your post.

Can't say I agree with the contents of it. I expected something else. Perhaps I should have considered the title, so I'd know what to expect in the body of the post, eh?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

27. IWC actually permits the current level of whaling under the guise of scientific research

Calling it what it really going on is well overdue. The current fig leaf of scientific research is actually making it harder to control and regulate commercial whaling.

The only functional limitation on whaling is demand for whale based products. Right now that is limited and I see no reason it would grow unless you know of additional customers for whale based products. The lower demand goes, the less amount of commercial whaling there will be. The species and quantity being taken are currently limited. I see no indication that it would expand, why do you think it will?

I see no end to the whaling done my indigenous people either. Do you demand that ends as well?

[MineralMan]

20. I find it interesting that you didn't bother to even discuss what it

is that President Obama is going to do. Instead, you distorted the facts to produce a misinformational OP. Why did you do that?

I had to wait until someone posted a link to another DU discussion to find out what you were talking about. Hyperbole and deception are not the way to promote your cause.

[MoonRiver]

24. I desperately hope I am wrong.

I have read in numerous places, including Greenpeace, International Fund for Animal Welfare, Sea Shepherd, The New York Times, The Christian Science Monitor and other places that this is the fix. I will be OVERJOYED if this doesn't happen, and Obama states on Thursday that he wants to continue and enforce the moratorium. PLEASE GOD!

[MineralMan]

25. You know, you posted nonsense in your OP, in a vain attempt

to stir people up. But, here at DU, we go look to see what the story really is. Then, we come back to this thread and wonder why you didn't make it clear what you were talking about. That question is still unanswered. Could you not have mentioned the actual measure in your OP. Could you not have linked to some news story?

Your OP was misleading. That's a shame, because you have reduced your credibility here.

[MoonRiver]

26. I really could care less what you think.

Information about this is all over the Internet and you know it. From all accounts Obama is about to sell out our great whales. If he doesn't he gets a big thumbs up from me. And I will definitely not mind being wrong.

[Dr Morbius]

29. If it was from "all accounts" no one would be arguing with you.

There is disagreement. You can believe it makes everyone else wrong if you like, but it is disingenuous to claim that "all accounts" say Obama is going to allow open season on whales.

Whatever the President is, he ain't stupid. And this would be politically suicidal for a Democrat. It makes no sense.

This is another attempt to stir up controversy where none should rightly exist.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

32. Actaully Obama lacks that authority and cleaning up the bad joke that is the IWC is well overdue

[MoonRiver]

37. You don't know how desperately I hope you are right.

I WANT TO BE WRONG ABOUT THIS. I could hardly believe it when I read the first alarming post on DU. Then I got an email from International Fund for Animal Welfare asking supporters to sign a petition to Obama not to vote against the moratorium, then I read about it on Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd websites, then my husband read articles about it on the Christian Science Monitor and the New York Times.

But again, I HOPE THIS IS ALL WRONG AND OBAMA WILL DO THE RIGHT THING AND NOT JUST SUPPORT THE MORATORIUM BUT TAKE A LEADERSHIP ROLE TOWARD MAKING SURE IT IS ENFORCED.

[MineralMan]

31. You have cut me to the quick...

Actually, I don't follow whaling news. Your misleading post was the first I had heard of this. I'm more into the political news than news about whaling.

So, naturally, I wondered what caused you to post this. Could it be that President Obama is going to say, "Hey! Kids! Let's all go kill some whales?" Nah, that couldn't be, so when someone posted a link to a discussion about what this was actually about, I was quite surprised. It didn't seem to have much of anything to do with your OP and your misleading claims.

Now, even though you misused the title of your post, which should have read "I really couldn't care less what you think," I understood you. Indeed, you don't appear to care what other DUers think, since you didn't bother to tell us what you were talking about.

Then, when we look to see what it might be that you were addressing, we discover that you've blown the entire thing completely out of proportion. No, you don't care what we think. You'd rather we didn't think at all. You'd like it if we just accepted your histrionics as gospel truth.

It doesn't work that way. Present your case, using logic and referring to actual information, and we'll listen and think about what you say. Blast away with misinformation and misinterpretation, though, as you did here, and we'll think about whether we should pay any attention to your posts in the future.

It's all up to you.

[MoonRiver]

33. Well, I wouldn't have thought anybody on DU was as unaware

of this topic as you apparently are. Let's just wait until Thursday and talk again after that. One of us will be proved correct.

[MineralMan]

35. You wouldn't, eh? I'll wager that not 5% of those here on DU

today are aware of any whaling issue that comes to a head on Thursday. Could be even less. It's your issue. I'm more concerned with health care, poverty, the upcoming 2010 congressional elections, and other matters. Whales come to mind only infrequently, to be quite frank. It's humans who concern me mainly. There's so much suffering and poverty out there. So much injustice.

You'll excuse me if my priorities don't match yours. I like whales. I've looked into the eye of a whale from 2' away. I think whales are great mammals and that they should be protected. But, it's not an issue that occupies much of my time.

So, consider the fact that not everyone shares your singular list of priorities. You'll note that GD gets a lot more traffic than the Animal Rights group. Most DUers are dealing with human concerns as a primary issue. Whales are good, but unless someone posts an actual story about them, instead of a misleading diatribe, we're probably not going to think about them all that often.

Just think what you could have accomplished had you posted an excerpt from one of the accounts you finally mentioned, along with a thoughtful analysis of that account. People might well have read that and agreed with your analysis. Instead, you provided no information...just a diatribe.

Live and learn, I guess...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. You are, so calm down

[MoonRiver]

39. We'll see Thursday.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. You are wrong due to the fact that no matter what he does there will not be unrestricted whaling

[MoonRiver]

45. From what I'm hearing whaling will again become legitimate.

Exactly how do you think Obama is going to stop the murderers from killing to their evil hearts' content? Who is going to pay for all the DNA testing? Answer: the same people who refuse to police the moratorium. In other words, there will be no constraint on the killers. Sea Shepherd and Greenpeace may not be as free to stop the massacres as they were under the moratorium.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

47. You are hearing wrong

[MineralMan]

65. Perhaps a new battery in that hearing aid would be of help...

:shrug:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Would you like to add some facts to your post, not just hyperbole??

Restructuring the current farce of the IWC is a good thing. Lets call the current sham of "scientific research" what it is, limited commercial whaling, and deal with it straight up. Today all a nation has to do is opt out and there are no limits as to quantity and type for them at that point. Its a key point that all current lmitiations are voluntary by participation in the IWC.

There are some whale populations that can sustain hunting. Controlling which are hunted and the amounts is a good thing. It is also an opportunity to have the whaling nations sign up for mandatory controls, which despite the claims of some, do not exist today. A call to restructure the IWC is in the long run better course than what we have now.

Eliminating whaling is just not going to happen instantaneously. Whaling by indigenous people is still allowed and goes on in the US and other nations. The long term solution is to eliminate demand. Until then, there will be whaling.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. The humanoid population could sustain a lot of hunting.

And yet we don't allow that at all (other than for certain muslims) why is that?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. Strawman noted and ignored as with your inference to cannibalism

[Warren Stupidity]

41. I see little difference between eating whales and eating humans

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. Clearly...

[MineralMan]

66. Really? From my understanding, whale meat is a deep red meat

with a very strong flavor. Human meat, on the other hand is yet another white meat, similar to that of the porcine variety. Yet another white meat.

Mind you, this is just from reading, since I've never tasted either.

[MineralMan]

22. Really? So, you'd be in favor of a hunting season on humans?

Is that what you're saying here? How strange. How...erm...unprogressive.

[Warren Stupidity]

42. Uh, no, I'm against all hunting of whales.

The obvious escapes you?

[MineralMan]

61. Oh, no. I'm all about the obvious. Here, let me show you my

shocked face:

[Liberal Veteran]

9. If President Obama states on Thursday he is in favor of adding tritium to our drinking water....

I fear he will lose a significant portion of his base.

[Motown_Johnny]

11. he already lost the red states, that would cost him the red shirts too

[MineralMan]

34. I'll say. And what if he says Thursday that he's been wrong about

being a Democrat and announces that he's joining the Republican Party. I'd think that would cost him a significant portion of his base, too.

Oh...wait...he's not going to say any of those things? Whew! That's a relief.

[Ferret Annica]

14. if he stands for ending the whaling moratorium, he will have made me his enemy

I have zero tolerance on that issue. There is no agreeing to disagree about that topic.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. What moratorium? What is in place now certainly does not qualify

[MoonRiver]

21. It provides legitimacy to Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd to stop the barbarians.

I don't know whether they will be able to save as many whales if whaling is legitimized. They have saved many, many whales from being murdered.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

30. There is no evidence that whaling will increase since there is no pent up demand

Either as food or other products. I support Greenpeace who is actively working to decrease demand, which is the only effective way to stop commercial whaling. Watson and crew are supporting only themselves and their TV show and are negative added value

Indigenous whaling is of little significance when viewed on a global scale. It too will reduce over time.

[Ferret Annica]

40. Yes, indeed there is poaching going on

Japan and Iceland both are rogue states regarding their violations of worldwide sentiment against killing cetaceans.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

44. Its being done within the letter of the international agreements. Its not poaching

World wide sentiment is not relevant. My take on it is that very few people even care. Those who do are both passionate and noisy, but are few in number relative to world wide population.

The IWC needs to be redone and rebuilt. Participation is voluntary and it has no enforcement powers. Non members can do whatever they please. Lets call it what it is, limited commercial whaling and create binding quotas. Commercial whaling will not disappear until demand does. That is where our efforts need to be focused.

Also the there is indigenous people who also whale. Do you want to end that too?

[Radical Activist]

48. He's also giving up on health care, DADT, and will stand you up for a date.

(sigh)

[MineralMan]

49. Plus, he smells of elderberries, I understand.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. that is truly heinous...n/t

[LWolf]

51. Not a disappointment here.

I paid attention and listened carefully, without getting caught up in the rhetoric and euphoria.

I'm not disappointed, because I never expected anything different.

Appalled, disgusted, and furious? Yes. Disappointed? No.

[MoonRiver]

52. I just want to do whatever I can to save the whales.

Obama needs to know how his constituents feel about this issue.

[WonderGrunion]

54. I want to save the whales too

I'm having a barbecue this weekend and I want to make sure there is enough whale left for me.

:hide:

[LWolf]

57. He does need to know that.

The question is this:

Does he listen to anyone left of the dlc?

[flvegan]

53. In the grand scheme, it really doesn't matter what Obama does.

If he goes in favor of it, and "limited" commercial whaling resumes, more whales die. And don't think for a single moment that nations like Norway, Iceland and Japan will bother to follow any limitation either. There's nobody to enforce it now, and there won't be a year (or 5 or 10) from now. Now, it will just be less of a "screw you" to the IWC and the world in general.

If he's not in favor of it, the IWC may fall apart, and more whales will die. Again, it'll just be legit now.

How to end whaling? Make it unprofitable. That's the only way it's going to happen. And with that, bless Sea Shepherd and bless Agenda 21.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

68. Serious question for you here...

Do you believe that there is a pent up demand for whale based products? My reason for asking is that I believe that short of the demand going away, there will always be commercial whaling.

We hear of cans of whale meat building up in warehouses. Is that true to your knowledge or is there more demand than there is supply? Any thoughts?

[sudopod]

55. Implying that the President is in favor of whaling...

0/10

[skipos]

56. Is your hyperbole based on that NY Times article that starts

"The United States is leading an effort by a handful of antiwhaling nations to broker an agreement that would limit and ultimately end whale hunting by Japan, Norway and Iceland, according to people involved with the negotiations."

Or is your hyperbole based on something else?

On a side note, I hope everyone who is upset by the dolphin, whale, cat & dog killing done by other countries is a vegetarian, as the poultry and meat industry in the US is not very different.

[depakid]

59. I guess we'll get to see how a good a friend he is to Kevin Rudd

Backstabbing a key constituency is one thing- screwing a key ally in an election year, just before you're going to visit his country is quite another.

[BlooInBloo]

62. If President Obama states on Thursday that he is in favor of eating my baby...

I fear he will lose a significant portion of his based.

I'm very concerned. So concerned.

[Hekate]

69. What a thread. Oh gods, how teh stupid burns. It burns all the way to the base, so it does

President Obama is NOT going to kill your whales.

I have only one question: How in hell is Obama supposed to "enforce" a whaling ban or restrictions? Send out the US Navy and start lobbing shells?

When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.
ack! ack! ack!

Hekate
:argh: