Help for the stupid: Which party in Great Britain is more progressive/liberal: Lib Dems or Labour?

[Hamlette]

I did a little checking and it seems the Labour Party is more progressive/liberal but that doesn't make much sense to me with recent news of the Lib Dem doing so well in the debate (don't you wish the debate winners had won the election here in 2000 and 2004? sigh) Anyway, does anyone know which one we should be rooting for?

[Odin2005]

1. the Lib-dems are the Left-wingers, Labour is the Centrists, the Tories are the Right.

To be more precise, Labor is Center to Center-Left with authoritarian leanings while the Lib-Dems are solidly left-wing with "Small-L" libertarian leanings

[Hamlette]

2. thanks

frankly, that's what I thought (especially after Tony Blair who was no liberal) but Wiki said Labour was "center-left" and the Lib Dems were "centrist/center-left" which made it sort of sound like the lib dems were more centrist.

I'm rooting for lib dems (since there is no viable commie party, I swear, these tea baggers are pushing me further left if that were possible)

[Demoiselle]

3. Historically, weren't the British Liberals more free-market pro-business types?

Labor was for the working class, Tories for the upper class aristocracy, and Lib Dems the bougeois, the "business" class in the middle. Sort of like old fashioned American Republicans, maybe.
Anybody know the history? Of course, I really have no idea what the Lib Dems stand for these days.

[Hamlette]

4. I don't but it seems there has been shifting, like here

To call the GOP the party of Lincoln, the President who freed the slaves, seems....odd.

[Demoiselle]

7. Odd indeed.

My London-born husband used to be convinced that Abraham Lincoln was a Democrat.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. That's probably closest, in the thread, so far

It's a bit complicated now, but you're right, historically.

The Liberal party and Conservative party formed as the two dominant parties in the mid 19th century - Tories roughly being for landowners, and the Liberals for businessmen (they took up their positions from earlier parties over a free trade v. tariffs argument). Each hoped to attract working class men as voters as the franchise was expanded from the previous 'property-owning' restriction. The Liberals were a bit more successful at that, and by the early 20th century were clearly more progressive (introducing state pensions, restricting the power of the hereditary House of Lords, that sort of thing). But at that time the Labour party rose, closely linked to unions (but also with some democratic socialist input). After WW1, the Liberal party imploded, and Labour quickly became the other main party.

The Liberals limped along as a centrist party, until a split in Labour in the early 80s crested a new party - the Social Democrats, who felt Labour was going to go hard left. They had a brief surge of popularity as a 'brand new' party, and formed an alliance with the Liberals. But they didn't have electoral success (in the 1983 election the alliance got 25% of the vote, but only 3.5% of the seats - what can happen to a 3rd party in a first-past-the-post system). Eventually the 2 parties merged to form the Liberal Democrats in the late 80s.

So you'd tend to think of the Lib Dems as centrist, overall; but pretty liberal on social matters. However, Tony Blair and the 'New Labour' project of the 90s took the Labour party leadership further to the right than the Social Democrats had been, and as a result, we had things like the Lib Dems at the last election wanting a top tax rate of 50% for those earning over £100,000, while Labour wanted the top rate at 40%. And the Lib Dems opposed the Iraq invasion.

However, there are still many 'old Labour' supporters, and some MPs too, who are still proud to call themselves socialist. So Labour spans a fairly wide range. And on social matters, some Labour people can be pretty old-fashioned. For that matter, the Lib Dems have a certain range too (eg some of them suggesting privatising the Post Office, not long ago); and the Tories range from 'compassionate conservatives' who can seem human, to anti-immigration, anti-European, ultra-free-market types who would fit right in with the worst of the Republicans today (although they are fanatical pro-monarchy too).

[Demoiselle]

8. Wow. It has gotten complicated! Thank you for that wonderful information.

I'm gratified that I had a vaguely accurate perception, at least about the mid-19th century. The wide range in all three parties these days must take its toll on party discipline.

[Hamlette]

9. Thanks for the info! Turns out, it wasn't such a stupid question after all

seems the parties in Britain are more fluid. Seems like here in the US more people stick with the party of birth.

[Grand Taurean]

10. The Liberals were moderates.

They believed in a regulated market system, as where the Labour party were socialists. That has changed though.
The Conservatives moved to the far right under Haggie Thatcher and Labour moved center-right with Tony Blair.
The Lib-Dems are moderate/social libertarians who prefer diplomacy to war.

[mrfrapp]

5. Political Compass

Political Compass is a good place to go to get a handle on this kind of thing. It's also been updated for the UK elections.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010

In a nutshell, all three front running UK parties are firmly in the right wing but only the Liberal Democrats have any liberal credentials.