Teach for America. A way to replace experienced, higher-salaried teachers?

[madfloridian]

From the University of Oklahoma student paper, there is an interesting point of view.

Teach for America not as good an idea as some graduates believe

The article presents it from a point of view of a social consciousness.

Those who are thinking of participating in Teach for America with a social justice mission in mind should consider this. Although a far more daunting task for sure, those really interested in social justice should consider ways of solving problems like unavoidable unemployment and low-wage jobs.

On top of failing to make a dent in poverty, Teach for America actually detracts from social justice by hurting real teachers. Teach for America students take low, entrance-level pay while also receiving a government subsidy for their salary in the form of Americorps stipends. Schools lay off teachers and then hire Teach for America teachers to fill positions that real teachers would otherwise be filling. Teach for America teachers are undercutting the wage needs of real teachers and causing them to be laid off as a result.

Imagine this: a well-off college student takes a subsidized teaching position at an impossibly low wage and displaces actual teachers who might already be struggling to get by — all for social justice!

For anyone who has any concern for labor rights, this is extremely abusive. Not undercutting wage demands of often unionized workers is rule number one of how to be a serious social justice advocate.

From Rethinking Schools this paragraph about what is happening in St. Louis schools right now. Think about this. The district is paying $2000 to Teach for America for every new trainee they send to the district. They are sending that much money to a non-profit group whose trainees get government subsidies.

Peter Downs, president of the elected school board, summarizes TFA’s role in one word: “privatization.” He says that the mayor, not the district, first invited TFA to St. Louis, in line with reforms such as for-profit charters and the privatization of services in curriculum development, teacher recruitment, maintenance, and food service. As part of its contract with TFA, the district pays $2,000 a year to TFA for each of its recruits. (The elected board has no power because the state took over the St. Louis schools; the mayoral appointee to the new three-person board is a former regional staff person for Teach for America.)

Looking past the spin

"Young social entrepreneurs seeking to reshape the US educational landscape.”

That is how the NYT once referred to the founder of Teach for America, Wendy Kopp, and her husband, Richard Barth.

This is one more way that entrepreneurs and billionaires with foundations are changing education in America in ways that can not be undone.

Most teachers have never paid much attention to Teach for America since its formation. Now with all the teacher layoffs, they are starting to notice. TFA trained teachers seem to be getting jobs as experienced teachers are laid off.

Wendy Kopp, the founder of TFA, is married to Richard Barth, the founder of KIPP charter schools. They are the couple referred to as the "young social entrepreneurs." And they are reshaping the education system in the United States.

Barth was also a former Edison vice president and TFA staffer. Both groups are considered non-profit organizations.

There is a very long and detailed article about Teach for America at the Rethinking Schools blog. With the limited ability to quote because of copyright, it is hard to summarize. There is so much there to absorb about how the education landscape is changing.

Looking Past the Spin

One of the things that came to mind is this question: When do non-profits start making so much profit that they are actually for profit?

Marcello Stroud sent me TFA’s 990 for fiscal 2008. It shows that TFA had revenues of $159 million in fiscal year 2008 and expenses of $124.5 million. CEO and founder Wendy Kopp made $265,585, with an additional $17,027 in benefits and deferred compensation. She also made an additional $71,021 in compensation and benefits through the TFA-related organization Teach for All. Seven other TFA staffers are listed as making more than $200,000 in pay and benefits, with another four approaching that amount.

It’s also interesting to look at the 990 for the KIPP Foundation, the charter school chain led by Richard Barth, a former Edison vice president and TFA staffer who also happens to be Kopp’s husband. Barth made more than $300,000 in pay and benefits, bringing the Kopp/Barth household income to almost $600,000 for their work with TFA and KIPP. (In a 2008 article, the New York Times dubbed Kopp and Barth as “a power couple in the world of education, emblematic of a new class of young social entrepreneurs seeking to reshape the United States’ educational landscape.”)

A couple of other things mentioned in the long article which will soon be subscription only....

Its employer partners include Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, KPMG, Credit Suisse, McKinsey and Company, and Google. Another TFA partner is Edison Schools, now known as Edison Learning.

The article also mentions layoffs and TFA, and names some school districts.

Last summer, Boston Teachers Union President Richard Stutman met with 18 local union presidents, “all of whom said they’d seen teachers laid off to make room for TFA members,” according to an article in USA Today. “I don’t think you’ll find a city that isn’t laying off people to accommodate Teach for America,” Stutman said.

One district, Charlotte-Mecklenburg, laid off hundreds of experienced teachers but kept 100 TFAers.

In Boston the union filed a complaint that the district was going to lay off 20 veteran teachers and replace them with Teach for America folks.

In DC Michelle Rhee, a TFA grad and school chancellor, laid of 229 teachers with experience but kept almost all of the 170 TFA recruits.

TFA recruits are only obligated for two years, yet they often replace teachers with years of experience.

I doubt you would find anyone who doesn't think there is room for improvement in our education system. There is room for improvement in any system. But there are many finally waking up and finding that America's tradition of public schools is being undermined by the corporate world and the "Billionaire Boys Club"

Most bizarre is when the mayor and chancellor show up at charter school rallies and tell the parents that public schools are no good and that they are lucky to be in a charter. I often wonder at such times if these two have forgotten that they are responsible for the 98 percent of the city’s public school children who are in regular schools. It’s like the president of Macy’s telling his customers to shop at Wal-Mart.

Of course, this course of action has the enthusiastic endorsement of the Billionaire Boys Club, that is, the Gates Foundation, the Broad Foundation, and the Walton Foundation. They know what needs to be done, and they don't see the point of listening to such unenlightened types as parents and teachers.

There has been so much teacher bashing since Reagan's Nation at Risk, a flawed report that took wings because of the media. It will be easy for this takeover, this privatization to happen.

[madfloridian]

1. The media gives the power to the privatization forces.

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/24_03/24_03_TFA.shtml

"Twenty years ago, before TFA had placed a single teacher in a single school, there were glowing articles in the New York Times, Newsweek, and Time, and a segment on Good Morning America. The media love-fest with TFA has never stopped, extending to soft publications always eager for a feel-good story, such as Reader’s Digest and Good Housekeeping. When TFA founder Kopp calls Thomas Friedman at the New York Times, he not only answers her call, but also quotes her extensively (see Friedman’s April 22, 2009, column).

At the same time, Linda Darling-Hammond of Stanford University, a vocal critic of TFA, has been tarnished as a pro-union anti-reformer in influential media outlets such as Newsweek, the Los Angeles Times, the New York Times, and the New Republic. Darling-Hammond’s 2005 study found “no instance where uncertified Teach for America teachers performed as well as standard certified teachers of comparable experience levels teaching in similar settings.” (see sidebar, p. 31.) Following Obama’s election, when Darling-Hammond was head of the education sector of Obama’s transition team and mentioned as a possible secretary of education, media attacks increased, with her critique of TFA one of the concerns cited. The attacks became so relentless that the late Gerald Bracey wrote an article for the Huffington Post titled “The Hatchet Job on Linda Darling-Hammond.”

[madfloridian]

2. Teachers to be placed get 5 weeks training.

"Do I have to attend the entire summer training institute?
Yes. Given the ambitious goals of preparing corps members to be effective teachers and increasing the academic achievement of their summer school students, the summer institute schedule is very full. Thus, corps members must attend the entire five weeks of institute. Events generally are not scheduled on Saturdays, but corps members often meet with institute staff and other corps members on Sunday evenings. Also, corps members often find it necessary to spend some time over the weekend preparing for teaching summer school during the week. It is also important to note that some certification exams are administered during weekends, and corps members who have not already taken their exams must be present to take them on those dates. Corps members who experience an unforeseen personal or family emergency during institute work with institute staff to find a suitable solution."

http://www.teachforamerica.org/admissions/faqs/faq_training_and_support.htm

Laura Bush celebrated TFA week in Dallas this month. The group also gets kudos from Duncan and Obama.

Makes teachers who had years of training with advanced degrees feel like they have been kicked in the gut.

"The former first lady's visit was part of Teach For America week. The nonprofit program places recent high-performing college graduates as teachers in urban low-income schools that often have a hard time recruiting staff. The goal is to boost student performance and to end inequality. The recruits must commit to two years of service."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/040710dnmettfa.21f9170ca.html

Guess the days of teachers who made a career of teaching will soon be over.

Few realize what now what a loss that will be to students.

[rucky]

5. Never mind the 2 years I spent working on the Master's

which made me a liability in the entry-level job market for teachers.

Ironic how education isn't valued anymore in the teaching profession.

[pampango]

6. It is ironic. When I got my first teaching job in 1994, the "game" that was played

was that you didn't complete your master's degree until after you got your first job. You couldn't get a job if the district had to pay you more for your masters. Seemed absurd since most completed their masters within a year or two, so they received the additional pay for almost their entire teaching career anyway. The districts end up saving almost nothing in the long term.

[cornermouse]

3. When I see things like this, I am grateful my kids graduated before this all

began and worried about the quality of education my grandchildren will get. We've become a nation that prizes and cultivates ignorance.

[pampango]

4. Aren't TFA teachers more expensive to a district than other new teachers? The district pays $2,000

to TFA for each teacher. Each TFA teacher receives "normal school district salary and benefits" so they're not saving anything there (other than the lower salary that any new teacher - TFA or non-TFA would receive). The "government subsidy" referenced above is an "education voucher" (which can be used to pay for credentialing courses, cover previous student loans or fund further education after the two-year commitment)".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teach_For_America

It seems pretty undeniable that TFA teachers are replacing more experienced and higher-paid teachers but this could also happen in districts that don't use TFA teachers. It may even happen more. Since non-TFA new teachers are less expensive to districts than the TFA teachers are, a district would have a greater incentive to replace experienced teachers with new, less-experienced (and much cheaper) ones.

[madfloridian]

11. The only saving is cheaper salaries. The $2000 is public money...

being paid to a private company to provide teachers who don't plan to stay.

The experience gained by a teacher through the years is lost.

[Nikki Stone1]

34. It's not about "saving" money, it's about redirecting it: to corporations and hedge funds

Once you realize that "savings" is a red herring, you see what is really happening. In the end, like all PIRATIZATION schemes, taxpayers will end up paying MORE for an inferior product. However, by the time taxpayers realize this, their kids will already be at the mercy of these companies and the changes will have destroyed the public option/system. Parents will be paying BOTH more taxes (to feed the hedge funds) and tuition to the charters, to actually pay for running expenses. It's the worst of both worlds.

[LWolf]

7. Of course young people without the education and skills

to do the job, who don't plan to make a life-long career of teaching will do a better job than real teachers! :sarcasm:

I got a visit last fall from a former student. He should be graduating from high school this June, except that he transferred from the regular high school to the local alternative school because he was failing. He's likable and capable, but lazy. In middle school, his mom still wielded enough influence to ride herd and make sure he performed to a minimum standard. In high school, that alternative school was a last ditch effort to earn enough credits to graduate. He'd become too interested in his friends and their band to remember to show up for class or turn in assignments.

He checked in to let me know how he was doing, and told me he wanted to "do TFA." One of the options they talked to him about at the alternative high school for people who are failing regular high school.

[wolfgangmo]

16. Sweet Jeebus - that's scary.

We really are recruiting the least brightest I guess. What a recruiting poster.

TEACH FOR AMERICA - Are you; failing High School, a drop out, or just spent too many years as a slacker? No prospect? Zero motivation? THEN TEACH FOR AMERICA WANTS YOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!

There are 2 careers that I am involved in, teaching (I lasted 10 years so twice as long as most) and medicine. I no longer council young student to enter either professions because I beleive that both are dead ends and will likely lead to a life time of sporatic employment and crippling debt when compared to income. Most teachers will average a salary of about $40,000 a year and will graduate with about $120,000 to get their masters degreee. Most doctors will graduate with over $500,000 in debt, begin drawing any salary at age 35 or so (thus forgoing savings and retirement accounts (time and compounding interest being what they are). Thus even if doctor average about 90,000 a year (primary care - based on a 70 hour work week) they will not pay off their medical education until they retire with minimal savings.



Just y 2 cents -

I love MadFLo's posts but I have to admit for the first time in my life I am convinced that education in the US is over, along with social mobility, justice, and any other civil virtue you may want to mention. I think the time has come to admit that the US experiment is over. If you have or will have kids, I respectfully submit to you that it is time to bite the bullet and do what generations of immigrants have done when their country of birth has failed them - leave with your family to a place that has more hope for a better life for your kids. Because if you stay here and if you lack the connections to the billionaire boys club, then your kids are FUCKED.

[tonysam]

17. And those are the two professions targeted by the World Bank

interestingly. Both have very vocal professionals who make their interests known to various governments, and the World Bank doesn't want this.

Unfortunately, if the World Bank gets its way, there will be NO country for people to move to, for their education systems will ALL be privatized.

The World Bank's "utopia" needs to be resisted--vigorously.

[XanaDUer]

27. Add librarianship to that list. too

Not sure about the sporadic-employment part, but, considering entry-level salaries hardly scrape the 35k/annum mark and you need a master's degree, I would hesitate to suggest young people go into the field.


As for this article; this is sickening. They totally are looking to undermine seasoned teachers' "high" pay.


EDIT : TYPO

[Nikki Stone1]

38. It was always a tradeoff of security for pay

Once they take away the security, it's anyone's guess what the hell happens.

[XanaDUer]

53. If by security, you mean civil service protections

they're taking that away, too. Twenty years ago, when I started working, pretty much every job I'd applied for paid shit, but had the decent wages and civil service "protection" and security that made the trade-off viable.

Now it is shitty pay, worse benefits (conservatives hate civil-service workers, too) and, now, no civil service, at least in many county government positions.

[LWolf]

46. Your description is, unfortunately, too accurate.

And yes, it IS scary.

[madfloridian]

25. TFA being one of the options at school for those who fail regular high school...

that is one of the scariest possibilities I have heard.

"do TFA"...such a casual phrase.

The reality is that they take the jobs from which teachers may have been laid off.

[LWolf]

47. It IS scary.

This is when that tired myth about how education doesn't attract the best and the brightest, that "those who can't...." etc. becomes real.

[Regret My New Name]

30. He's going to need a BA degree to do the TFA thing.

At least according to their website...
http://www.teachforamerica.org/admissions/how_to_apply/requirements.htm

[Nikki Stone1]

37. We'll see how TFA evolves. Eli Broad wants to destroy all schools of education at universities

Wonder if TFA will pick up the slack.

[madfloridian]

50. And Arne and Obama have been criticizing schools of education...

which I find very distasteful.

[LWolf]

45. He's convinced that it's a snap; nothing like trying to survive

middle or high school. :eyes:

[knitter4democracy]

49. I teach in an alternative high school. I have never heard that.

We would never counsel a student like that to go that route. We respect our profession too much for that.

[LWolf]

55. Good to know.

One of my teaching partners this year came from our district's alternative high school, which has been downsized and "reformed." She wouldn't, either.

The alternative school I refer to is privately run; perhaps that's the difference.

[Fruittree]

66. I'm no expert on the topic but I don't think that's actually true..

From what I've heard TFA is actually very competitive and hard to get into. I know of 3 kids - 2 U. of Chicago grads and 1 Cornell grad. - All smart students who did well and were rejected. I've since heard from another couple who know about this program that it's particularly hard to get into now with the job market being what it is.

[blindpig]

8. Scabs

Sharpen your pencils.

k&r

[Swamp Rat]

9. k&r

[lostnfound]

10. Historical precedent - "The Gary Plan" in 1917

Centralized institutions can be controlled by the few. To counter the well-funded movement toward charters, I suggest that restoring LOCAL control over the curriculum and structure of the school day is a way to inoculate schools against the charter epidemic.

Those reports like "Nation at Risk" take wings because a handful of powerful interests want them to. Beginning with the Committee of Ten in 1892, elites have used such reports as a catalyst to social change in directions that they find useful. The Committe of Ten report was relatively benign but it paved the way for centralized shifts in education, and this has enabled elites to take the reins behind the scenes for the decades since.

The implementation of 'The Gary Plan' -- over the opposition of many ordinary people -- was midwifed by elites who manufactured a 'crisis'

At one place, five thousand children marched. For ten days trouble continued, breaking out in first one place then another. Thousands of mothers milled around schools in Yorkville, a German immigrant section, and in East Harlem, complaining angrily that their children had been put on "half-rations" of education. They meant that mental exercise had been removed from the center of things. Riots flared out into Williamsburg and Brownsville in the borough of Brooklyn; schools were stoned, police car tires slashed by demonstrators. Schools on the Lower East Side and in the Bronx reported trouble also.

The most notable aspect of this rioting was its source in what today would be the bottom of the bell-curve masses...and they were complaining that school was too easy! What could have possessed recently arrived immigrants to defy their betters?
...

In 1917, in spite of grassroots protest, the elite Public Education Association urged the opening of forty-eight more Gary schools (there were by that time thirty-two in operation). Whoever was running the timetable on this thing had apparently tired of gradualism and was preparing to step from the shadows and open the engine full throttle. A letter from the PEA director (New York Times, 27 June, 1917) urged that more Gary schools must be opened. An earlier letter by director Nudd struck an even more hysterical note: "The situation is acute, no further delay." This Hegelian manufactured crisis was used to thaw Board of Estimate recalcitrance, which body voted sufficient funds to extend the Gary scheme through the New York City school system.
- Underground History of American Education

[madfloridian]

12. Found this article from 1915 NYT...pdf format

Through the over 30 years I taught they changed the names of the methods, switched back and forth among methods. I have forgotten all the names of the styles.

At the heart of it all is the ability and desire of the teacher to teach and the ability and desire of the student to learn....and in the background the support of the parents.

Now the parents and students are left out of the picture, and they blame only the teachers.

Interesting headline.

Advertise on NYTimes.com
Article Preview

THE GARY PLAN: A BACKWARD STEP?; Its Tendency to Centre the Attention of Educators on the Group Rather Than on the Individual.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9E00E5D61239E333A25755C0A9649D946496D6CF

And more from another link:

The Gary Plan, Work-Study-Play, or Platoon School Plan, as it was variously known, focused on establishing two central characteristics in the elementary grades. First, because of a concern for efficiency, Wirt believed in maximizing school facilities by constant use of all classrooms, including nights (for adults), weekends, and summers. Second, he expanded the curriculum to include manual training (numerous shops for the boys and cooking for the girls, for example), recreation, nature study, daily auditorium activities (including public speaking, music lessons, and movies), and other subjects beyond traditional academic concerns. The plan theoretically organized students into two platoons. During the morning, Platoon A students occupied the specialized academic classrooms (mathematics, science, English, history, etc.), while Platoon B students were in the auditorium, shops, gardens, swimming pools, gym, or playground. They switched facilities during the afternoon. The students, busy every day, were supposed to develop their mental, social, cultural, and physical abilities. Gary's large schools, first Emerson, then Froebel, and a few others built in the 1920s and 1930s, were unique because they were unit schools including all grades, K–12, which allowed for a more efficient use of space and building funds. By the late 1920s about half of the system's 22,000 students were attending such schools, with the remainder in the smaller elementary buildings.

Read more: Gary Schools http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/2002/Gary-Schools.html#ixzz0leWLVy9e

[Nikki Stone1]

32. +1

This is because the desire for real public education was co-opted by the corporate desire to have employees with neat handwriting who could follow orders.

[alp227]

13. Seems this program devalues the profession of teaching.

Wow...lay off well-experienced teachers in favor of trainees? That's really insulting to those teachers who've spent a lot and worked hard over many years.

[madfloridian]

14. The whole "reform" program devalues the teaching profession.

It is meant to do so.

And paying the TFA group $2000 to hire on their teachers who have had 5 weeks training....is a misuse of taxpayer money.

[Nikki Stone1]

39. $2000 to the company for 5 weeks of training?

Sounds like a taxpayer $$ siphon to me.

[wolfgangmo]

18. Beyond being bad for teachers...

by extension, it is really bad for kids. Kids' have a short window of opportunity in order to get their educational ducks in a row.

By taking that away from these kids, the billionaire boys club is essentially destroying the meritocracy and taking opportunity and hope away from generations of kids and American's.

It makes me want to do greatly bad things to certain billionaires.

[tonysam]

19. It's all about destroying upward mobility

These crooks who believe in the idea of neoliberalism are against anything which proposes a threat to their exclusive club.

Limiting educational access is one way to do it. Getting rid of unions is the other means.

[Nikki Stone1]

35. BINGO BINGO BINGO

It's also about enriching corporations and hedge funds with taxpayer dollars and forcing parents to pay tuition to keep charters running.

[tonysam]

15. It's one of a number of ways to deprofessionalize teaching

so that ANYBODY will be able to do it. After all, that's what the World Bank wants as "reform," since education is considered a waste of money by them.

[Dinger]

20. Keep Up The Good work madfloridian

K & R for the truth.

[madfloridian]

21. Look how well deregulation worked in our markets...

Worked so well they are deregulating the education field and turning it over to private companies.

Even having school districts PAY the private company for the honor of having of their 5 week trainees as teachers.

:eyes:

[Nikki Stone1]

40. .

.

[Nikki Stone1]

36. Yes, thanks madflo

Is there a way to get you your own paper? I swear to God so many stupid stories on DU get recs but the story of the year gets ignored.

[madfloridian]

22. The public pays for TFAers to get a masters while they are teaching.

"In St. Louis, as in many districts, TFA has a relationship with area universities so that corps members can get an education master’s during their TFA stint. The tuition is paid in part by the $4,725 annual educational award that members get through TFA’s affiliation with AmeriCorps, the federally funded national community service program. (TFA members are paid a regular teacher’s salary by the district or charter school where they work.) TFA also spends significant money on supporting its corps members. In St. Louis, for instance, TFA had six staff members providing support and training for its TFA teachers."

Americorps? Causing experienced teachers to be laid off and paying their replacements with taxpayer money?

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/24_03/24_03_TFA.shtml

[CBR]

23. I thought about doing TFA when I graduated with my Masters.

I thought I would be giving back to the community and that I would be a darn good teacher. Most of the graduates going into it think the same way.

[madfloridian]

24. A private company gets taxpayer money to place teachers with 5 weeks training..

oftentimes in positions in which experienced teachers have been laid off.

There is no need to pay any company to hire teachers.

It is just one way to diminish teaching as a profession and privatize education.

[Nikki Stone1]

33. Exactly.

People don't see it and people don't think.

[tonysam]

59. Now the NY state regents have legalized degree mills in that state

TFA and others of their ilk can offer "master's degrees" in teaching which of course aren't REAL master's degrees at all.

[madrchsod]

26. those kids will be chewed up and spit out

in any big city in the usa....might work in suburbia but that`s not where they are going. these kids will be quitting as soon as the bullets start flying...

everyone knows this will be a disaster but they do`t give a fuck about the kids..... it`s all about the benjamin's

[jeff47]

28. As someone who works in an industry devastated by H1-B visas

This ain't nothin'.

This program is one that's bad when we're in a recession, and a way to increase the number of teachers when we're not. Increasing teacher salaries by 50% across the board would probably be more effective if our goal was more good teachers.

But at least the TFA teachers aren't treated as slaves.

[Nikki Stone1]

41. Not yet, dear

And don't think the H1-B visa thing won't make its way to education once it has been privatized. Bilingual programs, like the one in LA, are already feeding a foreign teacher hiring quota.

[BreweryYardRat]

29. Someone just suggested TFA to me as an option after I get my B.A.

They didn't know about this. First I'm hearing about it.

So this program will be screwing over someone else if I join up. So I can't in good conscience do that, no matter how badly I need good, solid, work experience, or a salary above minimum wage.

FUCK! :grr:

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. The pay really sucks

I think college grads are deserving of far better salaries. :shrug:

But teaching is not a financially rewarding job. So you do have to be dedicated to the kids to even consider teaching.

The politics of education sucks. But the kids are just wonderful. I so love spending my days with them - there are lots of rewards. :)

[RobinA]

63. A Lot More Financially Rewarding

than many other jobs that requite Masters.

[Nikki Stone1]

31. It's all about destroying the professionalism of teaching and turning it into customer service

and money for hedge funds.

[tonysam]

42. It's what the World Bank wants

After all, higher education is a waste of money for the vast majority of people because the vast majority of jobs require little formal education.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. This program treats our kids like peace corps recipients.

That is repulsive.

I work with several TFAers. One is excellent. One is pretty poor and probably shouldn't be teaching. The others are doing alright but need more mentoring and intervention.

But I believe our children are worthy of dedicated lifelong educators. And yes, they are a bit more expensive.

[bertman]

48. Damn, too late to rec. Still kicking for exposure. It's pathetic how few people know anything

about the damage being done to our education system.

Thank you for the ongoing education you are providing for us, Madflo. I will do my best to try to enlighten others.

[amborin]

51. this is chilling

this is a very organized financialization of public education

parents need to hear this

[JDPriestly]

52. I thought this program was supposed to place extra teachers in

schools in very low-income areas that did not have enough teachers. I thought this program was supposed to be a way to encourage college graduates who did not plan to become teachers to find out whether they should actually become teachers.

As one who never taught in public schools but who obtained a teaching degree as an undergrad (in my field, not in pure education), I am appalled. The courses that I took in education, especially in educational psychology were probably the most valuable courses that I took as an undergrad. I cannot imagine how a person can walk into a classroom without a good understanding of educational psychology (the progress made in that field since I went to school is phenomenal). In fact, I cannot understand how anyone can confidently say they are a good parent if they haven't studied at least some educational psychology. That is how valuable those courses were.

I have several degrees, and the only courses that I ever took that were of more practical value than my education courses were in law school.

To put a person who has not taken education courses in an elementary or secondary classroom is irresponsible.

Those courses would be helpful but not so necessary for college and university teachers. That is because students at the college and university levels should have developed adequate learning skills. Of course, some junior college students do not have those skills. Education courses would be helpful for teachers at the junior college level also.

This is the biggest problem in the private school myth. A lot of private school teachers do not have education degrees. It's as if a doctor did not take elementary anatomy.

[Blue_Tires]

56. i have two ex-GFs who did TFA

and they both got sent to Los Angeles -- one to Watts, the other I can't remember...They have had a lot of headaches over the years, but both are ultimately satisfied with their decision...

[madfloridian]

57. I think most who enter TFA do not see the downsides to longtime teachers.

Some may not even know about the layoff situation.

It does sound like something an idealist would like to do...help struggling schools. The harm to experienced teachers may be unknown to some of them.

[tonysam]

58. It's infuriating to see people think of teaching is like the Peace Corps

The very existence of TFA, now being given the right to have phony "master's degrees" in NY state, is ominous for the United States.

Treat our inner cities like third world countries, and pretty soon our entire country will be one.

[JDPriestly]

61. My daughter was accepted in the program believing that it was intended

to recruit top students into teaching in primary and secondary schools, not to replace other teachers. She received a more attractive opportunity in her field and did not go into the program. But I had the impression from her that she was sold on the program as a way to find out whether maybe teaching would be the right field for her. She decided on graduate school and college teaching.

The program should not be used to close state budget gaps. Teachers are really getting squeezed by budget problems. The worst is that the precarious positions of teachers' and public employees' pension funds are not yet recognized by retired and working teachers and public employees. The worst of the impact of the economic crisis on teachers and public employees has not been felt. It's scary when you think about it.

[SoCalDem]

54. Everyone wants good teachers, but most people want them to teach for the love of it..not for cash

There are always teachers retiring, and younger ones moving up, but the wholesale firing of experienced teachers seems to be a pretty stupid thing to do..

A kid only gets ONE chance for an education. making it a continuing "experiment" seems pretty foolish..

[Nikki Stone1]

62. Understatements are your thing, eh?

;)

[RobinA]

64. This Meme Gets Old

Teachers have made some pretty decent salary strides in the past 20 years, relatively speaking. Strides that several other fields that require the same education have not made. I'm in mental health with a Masters making 2/3s what experienced teachers make. And I don't even get a discount and Barnes & Noble.

[madfloridian]

65. What "meme" is that? Explain further.

I am getting the impression you are saying just what SoCalDem just said...that you don't think teachers should expect good pay?

[Goblinmonger]

67. How long you been on the job?

How many credits do you have beyond your Masters? Our top end salary is just under $60K. You have to have been teaching for 24 years and have a Masters +24 graduate credits for that salary. I don't think that is above and beyond what we should be paid for that level of education and experience. And does 10% at B&N really mean that much to you?

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

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