I have only one comment on little Timmy McVeigh.

[lonestarnot]

They should not have executed him. They should have given him 161 life sentences, consecutive terms in super max just like terry McFud Nichols teabagger. Ask terry how he likes it. I'm sure he will tell you it is closest thing to torture he ever has experienced.

[Warpy]

1. Oh, but his visitors should be psychologists

who could study how such an obvious psychopath escaped detection in the military.

I was against his execution, too. He would have provided study material for decades. In solitary.

[lonestarnot]

2. Definition of supermax.

[tekisui]

9. Agreed.

[Bitwit1234]

30. I think in some cases life sentences without parole are much worst

than the death sentence. I think knowing you will never walk the streets again, should be punishment. I think you should be put in the harshest prisons going. With cell mates that harass and threaten you every day.

[panader0]

3. Except that imprisonment is a burden on the taxpayer

Free college courses, cable TV, complete health care (including dental), no work, free room and board.........

[lonestarnot]

5. Much less expensive than death penalty, however in this dumb ass's case, he waived appeals.

[panader0]

7. I think I read that a year in prison costs the taxpayers about 50 grand

If the guy lives 20 years, that's a million. How can hanging, a firing squad, or lethal gas cost more?

[lonestarnot]

8. Take a look at cost to taxpayers of mandated appeals.

[John Q. Citizen]

12. It does. The 'hang 'em high' crowd never can quite get their mind around that fact. That it costs

much more for the State to execute a human than to incarcerate a human.

[Hissyspit]

33. What is the cost of executing an innocent person?

[Bluebear]

24. 'Free college courses, cable TV...' Oh, you big brave guardian of the treasury.

[applegrove]

4. I think on the whole life in prison is a adequate punishment for mass murderers.

They thrive on control and will have to learn to live without it in maximum security facilities.

[pipoman]

15. The first sentence, I agree with

The second, not so much. The vast majority of Max. prisoners in thi scountry are in a general population environment, there is a pecking order which includes some very powerful positions within that world.

[lonestarnot]

20. Read a little more re super max.

[pipoman]

23. I have been to Florence and interviewed 4 of

the characters in the photo in the pro-vis area of the Administrative Max unit ("super max"). TJ Bingham and Barry Mills still run the AB from their cells in AdMax..It is astounding..

[lonestarnot]

26. TJ Bingham, who he and Barry Mills, aryan brotherhood, nope they've only convinced themselves.

[pipoman]

37. Huh, that's funny

they were convicted in federal court of exactly that, uh, running an organized crime group during a time while both were housed in AdMax.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5558210

[lonestarnot]

27. Florence is not a supermax.

[pipoman]

36. Ok what ever...

better do some reading of your own....the first 'super max' and only federal 'super max'..

The google machine is your friend...

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=fed+supermax

Oh, BTW, only the press uses "super max", and now I guess some states are calling their version that too.

[Kerrytravelers]

6. I'm against the dealth penalty regardless, but in McVeigh's case, it would have been so insightful.

And perhaps some of the current lunacy could have been adverted, controlled better, understood more... who knows what we could have learned. I certainly do not understand these people in the slightest.

[cynatnite]

10. He should not have been allowed to be a martyr. n/t

[era veteran]

11. Genera[ Population would have Dahmered him quickly.

Is he now a teabag hero?

[lonestarnot]

14. The original teabagger. And dahmered doesn't apply in supermax most cases.

[AnArmyVeteran]

13. What about ever-decreasing prison cell sizes?

When a thug like McVeigh is put into a prison cell it starts out to be a 6 x 8' cell, but the bars on it are motorized and slowly keep making the cell smaller and smaller. After the first year the cell would decrease to 5 x 7 feet and then with each year the cell would decrease by another 3 inches, or a foot every four years. In less than 15 years the cell would be just big enough to curl up in a ball on the floor.

It would be an ever-decreasing prison cell so time in prison would keep getting worse.

Creative prisons used to be more widely accepted. Hundreds of years ago cells were placed on on top of the others, stacked 10 high. They had no toilets so the inmates in the top cells would deposit their bodily wastes and watch them fall to each of the other nine cells below. If an inmate was caught sleeping at the wrong time he would be rudely awakened. The worst offenders got the bottom cells. The best behaved would get the top cells. When I heard about these prisons I thought it might be a deterrent, but it would certainly be ruled unconstitutional.

But a murderous thug like McVeigh didn't deserve the comforts of today's cells. And I believe it was a huge mistake to give him what he wanted, to be put to death. I am opposed to the death penalty, because I know mistakes in courts are made all the time. I also don't believe the government should be in the business of killing people. But conservatives seem to love the death penalty, torture, war, destruction, spying, illegal wiretaps and killing. And they claim to be Christians. LOLOL

[pipoman]

16. That you AZ Joe?

[CLANG]

17. I like the accordion jail cell concept

But after it gets the size to curl up in, then do you open it back up to the max and start over, or do you just keep squeezing until the sucker is out of his misery? :rofl:

[AnArmyVeteran]

18. I donno, I guess it becomes like a meat grinder oozing out the meat...

But since I don't believe in the death penalty maybe there could be ways for them to keep the bars from closing in on them. If they worked in fields 12 hours a day producing something or society their cells would remain stationary. But if they chose to just watch Jerry Springer on tv all day, then turn on the decompression cells again.

I haven't worked out all the details yet. But I believe the overall concept would be good.

[AnArmyVeteran]

19. And Soylent Green is always a possibility. Or con-burgers...

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lonestarnot]

21. So you're into that torture thing are you?

How long would you last in a shrinking cell? Cruel and unusual therefore unconstitutional.

[Withywindle]

28. So you think execution is crueler than life imprisonment?

I don't.

I will cheerfully admit that yes, I do have sadistic tendencies and revenge fantasies. So I do agree that McVeigh should not have been humanely executed. He should have been kept in a small, windowless room for life with no contact with other people except on those rare occasions where somebody who lost a loved one in the bombing wanted to tell him exactly what that meant. At great length. I want him to be kept alive and forced to listen to all those stories.

It'll be many decades from now until the Oklahoma City bombing passes out of living memory. There are still Holocaust survivors and Nazis still alive, and the former deserve the right to tell their stories to the latter, and that was over 65 years ago.

I know McVeigh was a sociopath, full of empathy FAIL. It's not about HIS rehabilitation or redemption - if it's even possible, I don't know and I don't give a fuck, that's between him and God if God exists. It would be good for ALL the victims, loved ones of victims, and survivors to get a chance to engage him one-on-one, IMO.

That's what I want for all violent criminals. Not so much revenge or eye-for-an-eye as to just have them forced to hear all about the FULL effects of what they did. At great length. For months and years.

[lonestarnot]

29. No, part of my point, that and tax payer dollars I would rather see going into jobs for working

people and not lawyers. :hi: Better to have him rot in a box cell.

[Withywindle]

32. My main concern is with the victims.

He killed 168 people. He inflicted immeasurable, generations-long trauma on every single person who was emotionally connected in any way to those people.

I would like for the parents, grandparents, siblings, children, grandchildren, husbands, wives, cousins, friends, co-workers to get a chance to have their say about each person killed, individually. To his face. For as much time as the people who cared for the victims need to get it ALL off their chests.

It shouldn't cost anything for the taxpayers. He was in prison already for a while, in theory, visiting hours were already in place. Those hours should be expanded to include those who want to use that time to talk about the victims.

Personal issue; I lost three friends to homicide before I was 25. I never got a chance to REALLY, flat-out, confront the killers and lecture them on exactly what they took from me. I think I'd have far more "closure," whatever that means, if that could have happened. The death penalty bothers me, because if you ever make a mistake--which our system does all the time--it can't be taken back, and also because some true sociopaths WANT death, and I don't think they deserve to get what they want. I want the far stronger punishment of ACCOUNTABILITY. An even better deterrent than death, IMO, is the idea that if you kill, you will have to deal with the tears and rage of the loved ones of the person(s) you killed regularly for the rest of your life.

[Control-Z]

34. The problem

is that MANY of these heartless criminals actually get pleasure out of knowing how much pain they have inflicted. It is proof of their power and control over other human beings. It would be fueling their sickness and their pleasure.

[Withywindle]

35. And what do we do with them?

Obviously they can't ever be released. I'm as concerned about those people's future victims as their past ones - if we have the opportunity to prevent future violence and heartbreak, let's take it!

So I don't know. I feel the prison system is very, very abused. But isn't that the purpose of it, ultimately - to house those few violent criminals who are likely to hurt others again as soon as they get out?

No, I don't believe everyone can be redeemed or rehabilitated. I do not believe everyone deserves a second chance - there are LOTS of people whose first crime was so heinous, it's not fair to the public to let them have a chance to do it again.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flamingdem]

31. He probably would have fallen in love with Aryan Brotherhood nt

[Jim__]

38. I agree.

McVeigh was disciplined enough to focus his mind on why he did it and not really consider the consequences - the murder of so many innocent people. He could not have kept that denial up across a lifetime in prison, especially as he saw that his act did not inspire followers. McVeigh realizing what he did would have been the real hell for him.

[madokie]

39. Thats the way I see it too

just like the dick and w and rummy too. Put them in a cell where all they have is space to set or lay down, a means of cleaning oneself and that tiny cube and a slot to slide the food to them through. No human contact whatsoever. Death is not punishment for these kinds of crimes. I lump them all together because there's not a spits worth of difference in all of them :hi:

The are all mass murderers