The 'natural born citizen' question. Let's say our President wasn't born on American soil.

[DainBramaged]

Silly people demanding the birth certificate or some other form of proof for President Obama to prove who he is. They forget one simple paragraph in the requirements for citizenship, the same requirement John Mclaim fulfilled when he attempted to run for President:


If you are born abroad to one United States citizen and one foreign citizen, you may be considered a U.S. citizen if you meet the following requirements:

One of your parents was a U.S. citizen when you were born.
The parent who is a U.S. citizen has lived at least five years in the U.S. before you were born.
The parent who is a U.S. citizen must have lived in the U.S. for at least two years of these five years after his/her fourteenth birthday.



It is amazing how hard it is for old White people to accept a Black man as President. And for those of you who want your Country back, well, then you ll have to go back to Europe.


http://www.american-citizenship.org/

[Captain Hilts]

1. We should have a residency requirement, not a native born one. It could be 40 years. It makes no

sense that the US government trusted my dad with nuclear weapons, but not to be president.

[DainBramaged]

3. I remember one statement from so so many Pukes back in 2001

Sore Loserman.


How true it is today.

[Captain Hilts]

12. Huh?

[DainBramaged]

14. Sore Loserman, it now applies to those who once spoke it to us......

:argh:

[Arkansas Granny]

31. They were sore winners. We knew they would be far worse if they lost.

[zipplewrath]

10. Or SoS, or Speaker, or....

It is kind of amazing that the ONLY office with this requirement is the presidency, and vice presidency. In 1789 I suppose their might have been some logic to this concept. I suspect it rose a bit out of the example of the monarchy and the tradion of "marrying" their way to empire expansion. In this day and age, I suspect that it is fairly pointless. The biggest fear would be the "sleeper agent", but that isn't really a realistic concern, especially since it could be so easily "forged". And as I say, I'd almost be far more concerned about a CIA director, or Treasury Secretary than the POTUS.

[Captain Hilts]

11. Yes. Weird. nt

[aquart]

26. NO!

Unless you really have a need for a President Rupert Murdoch or his citizenship-buying ilk.

Look how much it's done for the country having him own our media.

[slampoet]

30. Good point.

[Captain Hilts]

32. There are too many people who have lived here for decades that have earned that opportunity. nt

[aquart]

39. No, they haven't. This is not something you earn.

It was deliberately written to prevent foreign loyalties from ruling our nation. You think you know people who DESERVE the "opportunity"? Too damn bad. Because opening it to them opens our presidency to the next Rupert Murdoch. Take a good look at Bloomberg, the billionaire who bought a city. He wanted to be president, too. Now he was born here and this nation has his loyalty. But wealth has it more. Now picture a man that rich, in control of media, and a memory of childhood elsewhere.

[Captain Hilts]

40. We're not supposed to be ruled by things like heredity. nt

[slampoet]

29. I would rather have a president who was travelled and can speak foreign languages.

Currently the CIA doesn't allow Americans who have lived to long outside the USA to join. This is the primary reason that we never seem to have any decent translators and certainly almost no placeable agents who can run in the field and blend in as locals.

Residency can be used against candidates with diplomatic experience, we can't have our best people out of the running just because they are interested in foreign relations.

[Captain Hilts]

33. They don't want folks that have 'gone native'. There's a logic to it.

I remember some of my friends I knew in Moscow telling me in 2000 that there was "no difference" between Gore and Bush. Being out of the country kind of changes your perspective. The Internet has changed that somewhat, but it's still tough.

Living abroad is also something favors the wealthy over those less wealthy.

[Naturalist111]

42. I respectfully disagree. Must be native.

[HipChick]

2. Are these the same folks that no so long ago wanted to change the law, so that Arnold could make a

presidential run?

[DainBramaged]

4. You betcha' (wink wink)

[hobbit709]

5. Ding, ding, ding!

[Captain Hilts]

13. Actually, some of them started in the early '70s with Kissinger. It's still a dumb rule. nt

[w8liftinglady]

28. an article relating to this

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/10/01/MNGP0927TG1.DTL

[WeDidIt]

6. The law when Obama was born required all five years after 16th birthday.

Not that it matters.

Also, the Birthers have glommed onto the writings of Emerich d Vattel who wrote Law of Nations where a natural born citizen is a native with two citizen parents at the time of birth.

Of course, they completely disregard the 14th amendment and how their d Vattel theory would deny natural born citizenship to every freed slave.

[DainBramaged]

7. Birthers can read something other than the comic pages?

Can we exclude Confederate flag waving Southerners from the House and Senate?

[WeDidIt]

23. It's the rightwing ratfucker team that's pushing this shit

anything to de-legitimize Obama is the goal.

Same ratfuckers pulled this shit on Clinton. Then, they glommed onto a land deal that went sour.

[mrcheerful]

8. What don't you get? It is not about his birth its about his race no matter what

Obama does these nit wits will not believe it, come on they believe that the Obama family bought the state off in 1961 because the Obamas knew Barry was going to be president in 2008, so they had to make sure his real BC would never be found.

[DainBramaged]

9. So they conspired to forge the newspaper birth announcement too?

[mrcheerful]

16. Yeah they covered all of their bases.

[madokie]

15. Its all about the color with them

the reptilicons too, thats their biggest problem, the man is the wrong color. When I hear chinless or orange roughy talking thats all I hear is the man is the wrong color. Fuck the SOB's with a two by four sideways and twice on Sundays.

[HipChick]

17. Reptilicons?

love it!

[HipChick]

18. so let me get this straight...the FBI..OPM...NSA CIA are totally inept

by granting him clearances, and not confirming his citizenship...

[WeDidIt]

35. They're all in on the conspiracy.

See how easy that is?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

19. That is not the standard for the presidency

The requirement for a president is that he or she have been born in the united states, not that he or she is a citizen.

It is a separate and higher standard.



It doesn't help the cause to counter birther lunacy with irrelevancy.

Obama is a citizen because he was born in the United States of America. Period.

[Brewman_Jax]

20. Barack Obama is the 7th US President with a foreign-born parent

but the only black man in that list. Over a year later, the birthers are still whining. Yes, it's because he's black and they're a bunch of racists.

The other 6 were Hoover, Wilson, Arthur, Buchanan, Jefferson, and Jackson.

[shraby]

21. That's what I was taught in 1959 in school is what a

natural born citizen is and what qualifies the president as a natural born citizen..it meant not "naturalized" with an oath.

[Statistical]

22. Full citizenship and requirements for President are not the same.

The standard for President is higher than it is for citizenship.
Antiquated? Sure. Useless? You betcha.

Providing a false defense simply creates a strawman for them to knock down.

It is far simpler.
Obama is eligible to be President because he meets the requirements by being born on American soil.
Period. End Stop.

[aquart]

24. McCain wasn't.

[HipChick]

25. but he was white..

that's what the real issue is about

[Statistical]

27. Possibly but that doesn't change the fact that the premise in OP is invalid.

There is some debate on if McCain is a natural born citizen or not.
The Constitution doesn't define "natural born citizen" so the definition is from the US code. 8 USC 1401 is the applicable statute (and later 8 USC 1403).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html

However the point is moot. The "natural born" status of McCain doesn't affect the "natural born" status of Obama.

The definition the OP provided was for full citizenship not "natural born citizen". Someone meeting the criteria in the OP would possibly not be eligible for the Presidency. Thus the argument is a false one and a very easily beaten strawman.

Obama is eligible for the Presidency because he was born in Hawaii.

[Romulox]

34. There is no requirement that one be born on US soil; rather one may not be "naturalized"

The Founders knew well how to say "born on US soil"; they said "natural born citizen" (Art. II, Sec. 1, US Constitution.) The difference in language is significant. In particular, a "natural born citizen" need not necessarily be born on US soil.

[Statistical]

36. I'll concede the point.

Still the conditions placed in the OP are not for "natural born citizen" they are for citizenship.

The Constitution doesn't define "natural born citizen" so Congress did in the US code.
US code 8 USC 1401 sets the terms and conditions for natural born citizen.

So the OP defense is false and weak.

The larger point is that there are:
a) requirements for citizenship
b) requirements for being natural born citizen

Meeting A doesn't mean you automatically meet B which is the claim of the OP.

Someone could meet the requirements of the OP and STILL not be a natural born citizen and thus not eligible to be President.

[Romulox]

37. And I'll concede yours.

We are both very smart men! :strokes beard: :)

[Statistical]

38. Would be a pretty boring Presidential debate though.

:)

[spanone]

41. let's NOT say that. mainly because it's not true.

[RB TexLa]

43. The requirement for being president is the only place the term 'natural born citizen' is used

it's also not defined. I believe it to mean born on American soil, either a state or territory under civil authority of the US government. I'm not sure if I would include overseas military bases.

But until someone not born in America wins the electoral college vote no one has had standing for the Supreme Court to decide.