All these white men on one stage -- wanting to rip up my right to choose not to bear a child.

[Radio_Lady]

This makes my blood boil.

I can't talk now. I'm too upset.

Radio Lady

[spoony]

1. Would it be better if they were green men?

:shrug:

[Radio_Lady]

5. No, because then we'd be on Mars!

[spoony]

6. Touche, but I hear Martian pols are very progressive

[Radio_Lady]

21. Yes, but do they vote on paper ballots?

[spoony]

38. No need to, no Diebold! :-)

[patrice]

9. They were white and it isn't racist to make that observation.

It's simply a statement of fact. An ir-relevant fact as to the question of Choice, but a fact nonetheless.

If you shouldn't say "white" then you also shouldn't say "men", eventually you can't say anything at all.

[spoony]

22. Conversely

If you introduce one irrelevent fact then why not more? Maybe point out their thinning hair or beer bellies, etc.

There's enough focus on race, no need to introduce it here. Though I did not, and am not, making ANY accusation of racism, you brought that up. I simply made a jest to point out that the colour isn't relevent.

[Radio_Lady]

29. OT: Why did English in England come up with endings of "our" instead of "or: -- HUMOUR and COLOUR.

Just curious.

[spoony]

37. The way I understand it

is that they are a leftover derivative of the languages they're borrowed from, in the case of -our Latin, whilst (another anachronism) in America they gradually just simplified the spellings.

You know, I hope, that I wasn't trying to call you anything close to racist in my little leg pulling, eh? It got blown up to more than I'd meant it as the thread has evolved :P

[Radio_Lady]

42. Thanks, Spoony. We're headed to Europe and the U.K. on Monday...

I just thought I'd ask.

[spoony]

55. Awesome, have a great time :)

[Radio_Lady]

61. I really have to get some rest. Been up since 3 AM and just too tired to go to bed.

[patrice]

63. Point taken. nm

[Carolina]

86. Actually RACE is important

because of expected US demographic trends. It is predicted that by 2050, if not before, white people will not be the majority group. In fact, pardon the expression, but the nation will be Balkanized with no single racial/ethnic majority though money and power by whites (our quasi-oligarchy) will not change as rapidly.

Thus part of the abortion issue concerns dwindling white births and retention of a white majority, population-wise.

[Erika]

17. They were all white men. What's your point? n/t

[spoony]

23. Did someone flip your switch to "attack"? n/t

[Erika]

2. These GOP men believe women are too stupid and immoral

to make decisions about their own bodies.

I feel the same way you do.

[Radio_Lady]

7. My grandmother DIED from a septic abortion. She already had four kids.

She used a wire hanger.

I could never vote for ANY of these men.

None of my friends could vote for them.

To think I once even thought about supporting John McCain. We sent him some money.

[Erika]

14. Remember the thalidomide babies?

The rich U.S. women went to Europe to abort. The others were victims of back alley abortions or forced to give birth.

[Radio_Lady]

24. Yes, I do. Also, I was one of the women who took Compazine for nausea

in the first trimester.

Luckily, my children are fine. One is a Conservative Jew, the other is a Mormon.

I don't think they will be voting Democrat.

[Clark2008]

85. Compazine in the first trimester is OK

It's in the third trimester that it CAN cause some problems (but, as with anything else, taking a dose or two for severe nausea probably won't harm the baby).

[Manifestor_of_Light]

57. Anybody remember "Sherri Finkbein"? TV Hostess?

Her story was in Life Magazine about going to Europe to abort a Thalidomide baby.
She was a TV hostess in Phoenix I believe.

I was a little kid and a voracious reader in the early 60s.

[Radio_Lady]

72. I DEFINITELY REMEMBER THAT STORY... thanks for posting.

I wonder if she is on the Internet.

On edit:

Here it is:

http://personal.tcu.edu/~SWOODWORTH/abortionrites.htm

(Editor's note: From a review -- with a clear agenda.)

Olasky brings his historical account down to the 1961 case of Arizona “Romper Room” (that’s a kiddy show, for you youngsters who might not remember) star Sherri Finkbein. The pretty, 29-year-old mother of three took thalidomide as a tranquilizer during the first trimester of her fourth pregnancy. Upon learning that thalidomide might cause birth defects, she sought a legal abortion in Arizona under a clause that allowed for exceptions to save the life of the mother (all states had such clauses). Since her own life was obviously not in danger, the medical board refused, though as Olasky points out, it might well have flouted the law in a case with a lower-profile. Finkbein and her husband then traveled to Sweden and there successfully procured the killing of their fourth child, even though there was an 80% chance that the baby was completely healthy and normal. No tests were ever performed to determine whether the murdered child was indeed a “thalidomide baby.” Press coverage in the United States depicted Finkbein as a victim of harsh and uncaring anti-abortion laws and helped set the stage for the Roe v. Wade decision, just over a decade later.

[Radio_Lady]

76. In the early 1970s, I thought I was pregnant. We already had five kids.

Had to travel to New York City to have a "menstrual regulation" (as I understand, it was a vacuum aspiration) which was performed only on women who said they were in their first trimester. When the doctor asked if I wanted to know if I was pregnant or not, I chose not to know. Shortly thereafter, my husband had a vasectomy (bless his li'l ole heart -- best gift I ever got).

This has left me with NO guilt and NO recriminations -- there are only occasional twinges of "I wonder what kind of a child we would have had together" with my husband of 35 years. We already had five children in our stepfamily -- a houseful of kids, one more than the four my natural grandmother had before she tried to abort herself with a coat hanger, and died of blood poisoning.

Our family in the '70s -- older three are "his" -- youngest two are "mine" -- none are "ours"



In peace,

Radio_Lady in Oregon

[madeline_con]

20. Yes! What you said!

Thatt seems to be their attitude on the issue. We need "help" to "do what's right" because without their guidance we're all dumb sluts. :puke:

[Kool Kitty]

70. Isn't it nice to have all these Daddys to kiss it and make it all

better? They know what we need, and then we don't have to worry our pretty little heads about anything. Condescending bastards all. I can make my own decisions about my life and my body and like they say, "If you can't trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child?"

[Radio_Lady]

77. I "loved" this bumper sticker -- hope I'm quoting it correctly...

"If it's not a child, then you're not pregnant."

I think that's right. It was seen on the road on a vehicle which passed by quickly.

[patrice]

3. OLD white men . . . .

And not a one of them disavowed the right to CHOOSE to have innocent Iraqi children killed.

:grr:

[Radio_Lady]

8. Good point, Patrice.

[patrice]

15. Maybe I'm not supposed to say "Old", I appear to be an Agist.

Haven't quite worked out for myself how to indicate that something is simply an observation of fact and not a statement of prejudice of somekind.

[patrice]

32. I really did want to choke when they said things about

"elevating life" right after talking about interfering with Iran's people and their government and bombing them.

Do you think Republicans notice that sort of thing AT ALL?!?!

[Erika]

39. Killing Iraqi and Muslim babies are "just" collateral damage

According to the GOP.

[Radio_Lady]

48. I absolutely hate that phrase "collateral damage" --- those are PEOPLE you damned warmongers!

[Colobo]

4. White men? What about men?

[Radio_Lady]

10. All I see is these white men. I didn't want to generalize to other women or colors...

The Republican party had Elizabeth Dole, the old white female hope.

Who else do they have?

[Erika]

11. The subject was the white GOP men in the debate.

I know of NO women who are against abortions in all cases. But then I'm just a working woman working in a 250 person office.

Nor am I a CWA fan.

[Radio_Lady]

13. Especially when it's THEIR daughter, or mother, or grandmother.

[Colobo]

19. I know several super conservative (missionary) women

my age (early 20s) that are rabidly anti-abortion, in basically all circumstances except if the life of the mother is in danger.

They exist.

[Radio_Lady]

33. Yes, but how do we CO-EXIST with them? I want to shake them by their shoulders and get some sense

into them.

I've had a tough day and I think I'm going to go and take a bath...

In peace,

Radio Lady

[Warpy]

46. And they will until they need one

Then they'll lie about the whole thing.

I've known that type, too.

[Radio_Lady]

51. The woman represented in Roe vs. Wade eventually regretted her decision.

I don't care about her guilt. I didn't give a good sh*t about her or her story or book.

I want the right to choose for myself.

[Justitia]

60. Norma McCorvey was & is a complete nut.

First she said she was raped, then she said she wasn't. Now, she's a born again christian who also happens to be a newly avowed lesbian. And that is the really lame part of her bio. She is a weirdo of the first order who changes her position on everything in life every 10 minutes.

I wouldn't believe her if she told me blue was her favorite color.

[Radio_Lady]

78. No sh*t?? I never paid attention to the details of her story.

Thanks so much for posting.

[Warpy]

69. Yeah, after a religious conversion

which I don't give a shit about, either.

All this stuff, religion, opinion, decisions about our own health, generally ends at the surfaces of our skins.

If only we could get the busybodies and governmental nannies to realize this.

[illinoisprogressive]

12. but, this is why you are a democrat who will vote a dem in office.

So you can have the right to not have a child.

[Radio_Lady]

18. I'm almost 68 years old. But I remember talking about this with old fart talking white men

back in the 1960s and the 1970s.

If my daughter accidentally got pregnant, she would never terminate a pregnancy. She is for all practical purposes a devout Conservative Jew.

These are my views vis-a-vis younger women. I fought so hard for this issue and it feels as if there has been no progress.

My granddaughter will have to fight again if the law becomes restrictive.

[madeline_con]

28. A CALL TO ARMS!!!

Go to the NARAL site, and get involved! there are now only about 82 abortion clinics in the entire U.S. The self-appointed pasty white moral police are chipping away women's rights!

[patrice]

35. As long as members of the Human Family are nothing but War Slaves to

the Materialism Machine, the right to Choose to Abort is more of a sacrament than it is a sacrilege.

[Radio_Lady]

36. I've been involved with NARAL almost since their inception.

Talked to them frequently on radio for many years and support them financially.

I guess it's OK to say I'm glad I'm past the childbearing years. This is all just too painful.

[Forkboy]

16. I'm actually against abortion.

But I'm even more against rich white men thinking they have any fucking right to decide what a woman does with her body.

[Colobo]

25. Me too.

I'm pro-choice because I believe in the freedom of individuals to make their own reproductive choices. Still, I'm not very fond of abortions, and I don't think most people are.

Good sexual education and widespread availability of birth control methods, along with a focus on responsible MALE sexuality would make the trick.

[Erika]

34. Male and female sex education with easy access to birth control

has shown effective in reducing abortions.

The GOP men just hold men harmless in pregnancy and gives the message to females "Just say no, or we will punish you"

The bastards.

[Colobo]

56. Well said, Erika!

[Forkboy]

44. Ah,,,there's the rub

Male sexual responsibility seems to be scarce,and from all the signs I see won't be making any drastic U-turns anytime soon.

[Radio_Lady]

47. Amen, sister or brother or undeclared. I'm too tired to look up profiles.

[Colobo]

59. A brother of yours, Radio_Lady

A brother in ideals and in common humanity. :hug:

[Carolina]

87. NOT all abortions

are simply because of 'choice' (as in I don't want this baby or I can't afford this baby or the timing is all wrong or it will ruin my career ...). Sheesh, guys ... THERE ARE medical reasons, and because abortion is a surgical preocedure, I have yet to see cavalier attitudes about it by the mother or the physician.

Also, making abortion illegal again will not make it unavailable. We'll just see more maternal morbidity and mortality ... AGAIN.

Carol, M.D.

[Radio_Lady]

40. Thanks, Forkboy. You said what I've been thinking.

Anyway, how's your evening going? I'm listening to the re-run of the debate.

Most of these guys are unknowns to me. Mike Huckabee is a very interesting guy -- just because he looks so good after losing so much weight.

Romney is a handsome man. Tancredo is supposed to be a rising star.

[Forkboy]

53. Hitler was handsome guy too.

Don't let Mitt the Shit fool ya. :)

I missed the debate,but I'm hoping to track down a transcript or replay tomorrow.

I think the Repugs are throwing out the weakest field in decades,whether on purpose to throw away '08 and capture 2012,or just out of incompetence and the lack of any real humans on their side I don't know.

All I know is I'll have a barf bag handy when I finally do catch this debate. :)

[Radio_Lady]

79. Well, I'm not letting his looks confuse me, for sure. I only slept three hours after that debate.

It was a very upsetting evening... see my personal story posted here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=819501&mesg_id=825054

I wouldn't vote for one of those men for dog catcher.

[momster]

65. But Have You Seen His Son?

I'm too tired to dig up a link but it shouldn't be too tough to find him. Google Huckabee son arrested, gun charge. You'll see that Dad's diet isn't catching in the family circle, not to mention apparently the brain-gene wasn't passed on either.

[madeline_con]

49. I'm against it, too.

For me. But everyone should have a choice.

[patrice]

52. I personally don't understand why Adoption is not more of a CHOICE.

But I recognize that it is best in every way for the woman to make that decision. If it's wrong, it MUST be her responsibility. Interfering with that only delays the learning that must occur in order for things to change. It is our responsibility to provide the basic necessities of life adequately so that no woman chooses abortion because we have failed in providing those necessities. Once we meet our responsibilities, if a woman chooses wrongly, it has to be on her soul and interfering with that mitigates, enables, her ir-responsibility.

Abortion IS a SAD thing. Dead Babies are not desirable in any way shape or form. BUT, it isn't as if we as a society don't throw away ALL kinds of Human life all of the time, often for nothing more than temporary power. We need to be honest about this, before we can change it.

[Erika]

54. You might start by holding men responsible for pregnancies also

Like sex education for them.

[Forkboy]

58. I can barely put on matching socks each day

So I can't even go so far as to say it's wrong.I do know that it makes me very uncomfortable,but in the end I'm not the one carrying the baby around for 9 months.I have the easy and fun part.To me it's not the right choice,but the opposite isn't necessarily the wrong choice either.As a male I don't see how I can even begin to make the determination of what's right and wrong for each individual.Which is why it HAS to stay the women's choice.

[Radio_Lady]

80. Hi Forkboy. Thanks for your support -- see my personal story link here:

Here's the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=819501&mesg_id=825054

[Radio_Lady]

83. On a lighter note, about "matching socks," my daughter and I have this deal.

I'll help her and her husband with their two kids, if she will promise to "match my socks" in the nursing home! (Kind of a local family joke after we followed them from Boston to Portland, OR.) Every time she mentions that she's lucky to have a mother/grandmother like me and that I've helped her so much, I tell her to "match my socks" in that nursing home.

She lives on the east side of our city, we're on the west side. The street that connects us has about 10 assisted living/nursing care houses. Then I go on a road that passes two or three cemeteries/crematoriums, down to the radio station where I volunteer.

It's kind of a challenge to think I might be in one (or more) of those places in the future. So, I lighten it with humor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy the spring!

[bluestateguy]

26. DUer's who are thinking of not voting for Hillary as the nominee should remember this

Believe it or not, the war is not the only issue in this campaign, and while Hillary's record is disappointing on this issue, I think we will all agree that her record on choice is very good. The contrast between her and Republicans is very crisp and clear on this issue.

[Colobo]

30. Hillary, Obama and Edwards are all pro-choice

[Colobo]

31. Dupe!

[calimary]

27. No kidding. Wonder when any of them ever got pregnant?

If any one of those assholes gets into the White House, we're finished. We're finished as a country. Might as well rename ourselves the United States of Iran.

[Erika]

45. and women can start wearing veils and burqas so they won't

be found guilty of sexually corrupting males.

[JackBeck]

41. Where's Alan Keyes when you need him?

The requisite token, I'm sure they're molding a new one.

[Justitia]

43. I hear you, my aunt almost died from an illegal abortion, she has a colostomy because of it

I'm enraged by these MF'ers!

My aunt's husband simply walked out on her when he found out she was pregnant w/their 2nd child.

She was incredibly desperate, had an illegal abortion so as not to compound her circumstances by being out on the street w/TWO kids and a disappearing husband.

She paid dearly for that - the complications almost killed her on three separate occasions over the ensuing months and years. Her uterus and colon were punctured. She became septic. Her internal organs fused together. She has a permanent colostomy. For the uninitiated, that is an external bag that you poop in for the rest of your life.

My mother and I nursed her back to health over the years, she has never lived on her own since.

When one of those assholes has to suffer the indignity of having someone help you empty your shit from a bag every day, then maybe they would understand why abortion should always remain SAFE & LEGAL.

Fuck those assholes, I'm so sick of fighting this battle. I hope they suffer like the thousands of women they are condemning.

[Erika]

50. Yep and men think they are so righteous by denying women

the right to control their own bodies.

[patrice]

62. Yes and Couldn't you just hear them getting high when they said

things about "elevating life". I'll bet they felt all holy after saying that stuff.

[Erika]

67. Probably getting a hard on about placing women in stocks

to teach them to "JUST SAY NO".

[patrice]

71. Oh!! You mean that wasn't "the Holy Spirit" moving them??!!!

I'm SO disappointed! :sarcasm:

[DURHAM D]

64. My friend Doug called during the debates and asked

what I was thinking about the old white fools on the tv.

I responded - I don't have time to talk. I am busy ripping out my uterus. I plan to send it to the RNC because they seem to need it worse than I do.

He laughed and said - I'll let you go. I knew you would be steamin'.

[Erika]

66. Old white male fools showing women the way

in denying their rights. I just upped my donations to Planned Parenthood and Naral.

[Umbram]

68. An Old White Man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Blackmun

[musette_sf]

75. we aren't talking about him

check the original post if you aren't sure

[musette_sf]

73. every one of them

proud of the fact that they want women to be second-class citizens.

i suspect there is at least one that really thinks women shouldn't have the vote. prolly Brownback.

[xchrom]

74. either your body belongs to you or it doesn't --

which is it?

these white men don't seem to quite get whose body it is.

is your actually vagina yours?

the phallopian tubes -- are they included or excluded?

what if you are a perfectly fertile, married young{ish} woman -- can you have all your reproductive organs removed at will?

anyway...

[Radio_Lady]

84. I loved your spelling error!

Fallopian tubes is correct, but Phallopian tubes (based on phallis, better known as pertaining to the penis). Did you do that for effect?

[xchrom]

88. sigh -- no -- just an electrical overload in my brain.

[blues90]

81. I never did understand why men get involved at all .

First off I am a white male .

However as far as anyone having control over what a women chooses to do with her own body is beyond insane .

I have seen abortion fighters , all men out there telling women it is wrong but have yet to see one of these men contribute to the unwanted childs future in any way shape or form .

Sure it;s easy for them to stand there and make their laws when they have to do absolutely nothing when all is said and done .

I don't feel it's the governments place to even get involved in these issues , it is a personal choice and no ones damn business .

I sure don;t hear anyone telling women not to get breast implants , this they are all for .

It's just a crime as far as I'm concerned to judge women in this manner .

I don't see the damn government passing out condoms or doing anything that educates about sex it is always after the fact when they get involved .

No instead they promote viagra something this world really needs , try coming out with birth control for men and make this a law and then we will have something fair for a damn change .

I am a male and not gay but I do have to say I hate most males for many reasons , too many to list here .

[Kajsa]

82. I hear ya, girlfriend!

Aren't they the friggin experts on reproductive rights?

Arrgghhh!!!!

:nuke: