What's your thoughts on couples with a stay-at-home partner?

[Godhumor]

Bringing this up more out of curiousity, as my wife is still livid at an encounter we had with a few days ago.

I work while my wife made a decision (i.e. her choice) to stay at home and work on the house, volunteer, etc. I've never had an issue with this nor have we ever felt the need to defend this position until a work acquaintance absolutely tore into the two of us a few days ago at a dinner (Thankfully, she did so in private).

She vehenemently threw around terms like "barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen", accused my wife of pandering to my need to be in charge, accused me of desiring a submissive partner to exert my will upon and left off by saying that she was ashamed to know young couples were continuing the traditions her generation fought so hard to eliminate.

However, it is an interesting enough debate, that I am curious to how others view stay-at-home husbands/wives, and, if you or your partner are one, have you ever felt the need to defend that particular decision to others?

[Lance_Boyle]

1. If you can afford it and want to, it's a valid choice.

I wonder if the tongue-lashing you got from that asshole was more out of jealousy that your family can afford to make that choice than out of concern over "traditional societal gender roles?"

[roguevalley]

162. my mom stayed home until the last kid was nine. Could have used the other

income but Mom and Dad felt it was the right thing to do and it was. if you can and want to, good for you. if not, then fine.

[TwilightGardener]

2. I have been a stay-at-home mom off and on, and

sometimes I feel guilty for not earning a paycheck--I think of all the money we could have if I worked, how we wouldn't have such a tight budget, how we'd have more for retirement. Has nothing to do with anything feminist, or gender role expectations--just a sense that I ought to bring in a paycheck.

[HopeHoops]

14. Frankly, I find a full-time job to be FAR easier than being the stay-at-home dad.

Unless you've done it, you don't have a fucking clue how much work it is.

[TwilightGardener]

33. Especially when they are little, yes, it's a REAL job in and of itself...

Kind of a backwards situation, in my family: when my kids were babies I mostly stayed home, because I didn't earn enough to pay for daycare--so we were kinda poor for a while. When they got to toddler and school-age, I finally started working, mostly at night--to minimize day care expenses. And I still felt guilty for being away from them. Now they're teenagers, I was laid off a year or so ago, and we can finally sort of afford for me to stay home. So I'm not working right now, and while it's nice to keep an eye on them and spend time with them, I feel guilty for not working. Guilt is a permanent companion of mine.

[Dappleganger]

112. We used to think that I would work when our kids were in middle school and high school...

thinking that they didn't need us as much. Guess what--that's totally untrue, they need a parent at home when they are at home more than we thought! I worked at home for nearly two years in graphic design and finally gave it up. They were much happier when I was free to be around them more even though I was here at the house the whole time.

BTW, don't let that guilt get the best of you...stop looking back!

[TwilightGardener]

117. I suppose. It's funny, they seem both annoyed and happy that one of us parental units

is always around. They can't get away with shit, on one hand (I would know if one of them skipped school, etc.)--but on the other, there's always someone to talk to, someone to help with homework, and there's always someone around to cook a decent dinner every night (as opposed to many of their friends, who must get their own dinners). Since we're a military family and my husband is often away, it's especially important to me that we have as much together-time as possible--whether they like it or not!

[Godhumor]

47. I learned very quickly to not complain about too many meetings causing me to be "tired"

It doesn't even rank on my wife's tiredness scale.

[CTyankee]

127. I have done both, stayed home with the kids early in their lives and then went to work full time

when they were a bit older. Here is my take:

When you are full time at home, you are (unless your children are very little) running things and, within certain limits, you have the freedom to plan your time. At work I quickly learned I had lost a lot of my own autonomy. And I wasn't the boss, as I had been of my home. Someone is always telling you what to do and when to do it and castigating you (often unfairly) when something went wrong. I went back to work because my husband was not pulling his own weight in the work dept. and we simply needed another steady paycheck. I felt resentful, even tho I liked lots of things about work.

That being said, it is my belief that the hardest job and the most important job you will ever have is being a parent. And that's the way it should be, even with all of its joys. It is hard to be that if you are being run ragged with late hours and stress from unreasonable bosses and deadlines. But certainly some people want and need their jobs. Therefore, it seems to me that parents need more understanding and help in the workplace, a la European style vacation, sick leave and parental leave times. It's the only way, IMO, we can ever have our cake and eat it too.

[Shell Beau]

78. Absolutely. I am not sure I could be a stay at home mom even if

we could afford it. It is hard hard work.

[Juneboarder]

94. +1000

My wife and I both work full time, but there's been times where we'll need to take time off to be with our son during the work days and I couldn't agree with you more. I am more tired at the end of my day when being at home with my 19 month old than I am when I come home from working all day.

[seabeyond]

25. and i dont have that concern. i would only bring in so much money. a lot more money would go out

i dont know that we would have come out ahead. hubby bought a business and for five years worked ass off. i did the young kids, house, cooked, all of it so he could put the energy into the business with no interference. he sold it and we made huge bucks

IF i had been working, he would not have been able to be so successful. so i ask, would he even have taken the risk to own business, would it even have been possible, could it even have been successful with diverted attention to home life and would we have made that money

[Dappleganger]

106. You ARE earning, you are lowering your bottom line!

As the household manager it's my job to ensure that we operate within a certain budget, and when that budget plummets as it did over the past year my challenge was to bring our costs under budget. Not an easy challenge, but we did it! If I had gone to work our bottom line costs would have risen dramatically so that's why I quit trying to find anything. If dh had only been doing this on his own or I had not even tried to keep the bottom line in check, we would have probably lost our home.

Do not EVER discount the value of the person staying at home, be it the man or woman.

[seabeyond]

110. exactly

i can think of so many ways i have been able to save money and adjust this last year our income went down. there is so much in this last 16 years of staying home that i see as a financial benefit that i would have never understood if i hadnt done it.

[TwilightGardener]

119. True--It hasn't been as hard to live with one income as we thought.

I'm not sure why--maybe because we just became naturally more frugal without the second income.

[seabeyond]

121. much much more frugal. i sat with young niece with her first baby

and told her to calculate what she would bring home. then calculate ALL the costs of going to work. that has to include, take outs, restaurants (it happens more), lunches out, sodas and coffees, grocery that are faster, more convenient also more expensive, dry cleaning, clothes, gas, day care, ..... taxes alone is higher for the second worker, going off the top earners wage... adn decide if a couple hundred a month is worth the added stress.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

3. Since you asked . . .

. . . this acquaintance of yours sounds like a complete ass. If anything, it seems as if she is the one who is (preemptively) "defending" her own decisions in life.

[LisaM]

4. The point wasn't that everyone had to get out and work 40 hours or more per week

the point was that if women wanted to work, no opportunity should be denied. And, now, to that end, if a couple decides that one member (not going to say male/female, since there are gay couples, too) wants to tend to the daily life things while the other works, that should be fine, too.

[Kerrytravelers]

5. I detest people who stick their nose into other people's private decisions when no one is being hurt

by that decision.

What arrangements you and your spouse choose is your business. Now, if she stayed at home because you were beating the life out of her, then that is a different conversation. But clearly, that is not the reason. So therefore, no one is being hurt and it is none of your co-worker's business, let alone their business to have an opinion on your personal decision and lastly, it is not their place to express that uninformed opinion to you or to anyone about you, frankly.

I hate busybodies.

[TheOther95Percent]

40. Ditto.

Since when is this her business? She doesn't have a vote in the matter.

[jeffrey_X]

79. Exactly

It's none of her fucking business.

bullshit

[YOY]

6. Well were in the same boat.

And if your wife made the decision then she made the decision.

I WISH my wife worked...and earned more than me.

THe work acquaintance sounds like she's projecting...

[GodlessBiker]

7. If you can afford it, do it.

[Blue_In_AK]

8. My daughter and son-in-law have the opposite set-up.

She's a lawyer, he's a retired international rugby player, who was a mining engineer in Australia, but can't find too much of that work in LA. :rofl: So she works, and he stays at home taking care of their one-year-old. It works out fine for them. When they emigrate to Australia, as they're planning to do in the future, the roles will reverse.

Your "work acquaintance" needs to mind her own business.

[JohnnyBoots]

93. Who'd he play for out of curiosity. Big 'footy' fan over here.

[Blue_In_AK]

131. Several teams

Hong Kong, Great Britain, Australia, probably others. The last one he played for was Santa Monica, where he met my daughter who was playing for the Santa Monica ladies team -- and the rest is history.

Here's an old article http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2005/07/15/scd-riaz-rolls-up-for-stingrays/

[JohnnyBoots]

146. Thanks. Very nice, my wife and I both play as well. nt

[Tikki]

9. Like my old mother said..."Those who scream the loudest about..

something that others do...usually have something going on about it in their own life"...
It may be a cry for help...ask her..

Think: those who scream the loudest about cheaters...and then you find out they cheat...


Tikki

[Juneboarder]

95. Could that have any correlation with...

people like Bush, Limbaugh and all the other rethugs that are recovering alcoholics that can't stop talking about it. We THINK they're recovering, but are they...?!?

[HopeHoops]

10. I've been the stay-at-home dad for eight years and I'm proud of it.

I get contract jobs from time to time and can do most of the work right here at this very desk I'm typing from and while the kids are at school. I take care of most of the grocery runs and other shopping and a lot of the housework.

My wife quit her job when she got pregnant with our first of three kids. She did the job until eight years ago and then took over as the primary insurance source (note: I did NOT say "income source" - the insurance is the reason for a full-time job). Sometimes I pull in more than her, other times less. That's irrelevant.

The "barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen" thing is simple ignorance. I would advise you to think twice about further engagements with this woman.

[Godhumor]

39. I've already made the decision to not engage in any out of work conversations with her

Frankly, I'm incensed she felt the need to hop into this issue. I am also hoping to avoid working with her as much as possible before she retires (Thankfully, we're not in the same department).

[dalaigh lllama]

11. Funny -- I thought we fought for everyone's right to choose

what they wanted to do in life. I see that person's attack as no more justified than an attack on a woman working outside the home 40 years ago.

[SouthernLiberal]

133. I'm an old feminist.....

and that's exactly what we wanted then... a choice. Some who call themselves feminists today would limit women's choices to those things that were not traditional 'woman's work'. I think that is just as wrong as limiting women to that kind of work.

Many families today feel they don't have a choice, that both partners need to work at jobs that pay money. I say that any family that makes a choice to forgo a second income, and give their kids a full-time parent deserves praise, not abuse.

[proud patriot]

144. amen to that

[TexasObserver]

154. Thank you! It's the right to choose, to have all options open.

[redqueen]

12. Lucky, that's what I think about them. :)

Sounds like that woman has some serious, serious issues.

I was a stay-at-home mom for a couple of years, and never felt the need to defend it.

[Taverner]

13. Its expensive and will drive you nuts

[DefenseLawyer]

15. You work three jobs? Uniquely American isn't it?

I mean, that's fantastic!- George W. Bush

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

16. YIKES - with friends like that who needs enemies?

I was a stay-at-home mom until my yougest was 11 years old, so I took off from the work-force for 15 years. I didn't just babysit and keep a home. Jeepers.

I painted. I wrote. I explored avenues of education. I sewed. I was VERY well-read and knowledgeable. I volunteered.

To me, it's such a wonderful opportunity to explore areas of interests. Very very freeing and wonderful and I am looking forward to retirement as yet another opportunity to explore.

Women putting other women down for making their own choices seems a bit against what we tried so hard to eliminate, too.

Oh and those costumes the kids wore in the school plays? I bet a working mom's kid wore one that I made.

[NotThisTime]

46. I have to agree, seriously, I hope you told your "friend" to go to hell... I wouldn't put up with

that crap from anyone.

[Godhumor]

70. I posted about the question involved. But, yes, we did not end on a good note at the dinner

I had words with her, as did my wife.

[HipChick]

17. None of their business...I was accused of being a 'kept' woman...

because I work from home...Neighbors were adamant to find out what I did for a living......:rofl:

[Subdivisions]

18. I work from home, she works at a local hospital. No, never had an

intrusion like the one you had. In fact, others are envious that I get to stay home and work at my leisure.

[shraby]

19. If you can afford that life-style, more power to you.

I was a stay-at-home wife. I tended to all the everything to do with the household. Made out income taxes at tax time, paid the bills, did the shopping for all, saw to it the kids attended school like they should, mowed the lawn, raked the leaves, planted gardens, canned fruit and veggies for winter, saw to the children's safety during the summer months when there was no school, I had 4 children, the oldest was 4 1/2 when the 4th was born.

Made some of their clothes. My husband worked 9 hours a day..they always had the overtime which when the children were small amounted to 90 bucks a week..good pay in the 1960s. It worked good for us. When we bought our present home we bought with the idea of only one income. If I worked some it was all to the good..much better than buying and counting on two incomes to make payments...which many now do. It meant doing without sometimes but it never hurt us one bit. We just enjoyed any purchases of "luxuries" all that more..like a new t.v. when the old one went belly up.

[seabeyond]

20. being a stay at home, i am thankful that i have the opportunity. my children

are thankful. it leaves plenty of down time for hubby and i. certainly not a bet of submissiveness going on. we both see it as doing our job as partners to create the healthiest, most balanced environment creating a strong foundation for children and a peaceful and contented marriage. neither of us are overwhelmed

i wont mouth off about the over stressed two working parent homes, if they will leave me alone to live our choice. it works for us

i know women that should be in the work force. that is their choice.... it is theirs to do.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

38. my brother would have been an ideal stay at home and his wife should not

have been a stay at home. i absolutely see some men as more nurturing than some women. i am more so than hubby. he is more martha stewart, but i am more nurturing.

that being said

i personally think that children should have a parent at home. and not just young. i use to put a benchmark down on age, but as children grow i am seeing time and again, validation to continue to stay at home. now teenager, they need me almost as much as little ones. with the picking up and dropping off alone, lol.

i always thought i would be the working mother. had my first. and couldnt do it. surprised me.

i have never wanted to be superwoman either. work, do the house, do the kids. i just dont have it in me.

others do

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[Godhumor]

52. 2 of my best friends, including the guy I was best man for at his wedding, were stay at home dads...

For quite a few years. Now, with their respective children in elementary school, they both went back to work. Quite simply, the arrangement worked for them.

[seabeyond]

53. why is the poster getting deleted? am i missing something? nt

[Godhumor]

60. Not sure with regards to these posts.

Maybe he showed himself to be of the other political persuasion in a different thread?

[seabeyond]

63. ??? maybe. hadnt thought of that. nt

[lukasahero]

56. "i wont mouth off about the over stressed two working parent homes"

You realize, of course, that you just did, right?

If you really didn't want to lay judgment on those who make different choices than you, your wording would be "i wont mouth off about the two working parent homes if they will leave me alone to live our choice"

'Nuff said.

[seabeyond]

65. are you saying that they are not? is that a judgment call, reality?

how could it not be?

[lukasahero]

73. Of course it is

Proclaiming EVERY SINGLE WORKING COUPLE EVA is "over stressed" is quite obviously making a judgment of the mental state of people one doesn't know.

I don't know, maybe some working couples have hired help. Maybe some of them have family to assist in raising the children. There are many reasons why/how two working parent families may not be "over stressed".

:shrug:

[seabeyond]

77. i have yet to see it. i have talked to many many

in two working home family and i have yet to hear any of them not KNOW that it is a more stressful environment. harder, at least in ways. they would not argue it. they would not defend it. they would not see it as anything more than the reality of their choices.

and there are some that wish it wasn't, but cant afford otherwise. and their are some that decide it is worth it because of the choices they need to make in life.

but most all seem to be honest enough without guilt or derision to know it is, at the least, more stressful. at least time allotted to get needed thing done before bed time.

maybe i am wrong. let people tell me otherwise. i am not opposed to hearing differing views.

[lukasahero]

100. Whatever.

Not gonna argue with you.

[RKP5637]

21. To me, it sounds like the work acquaintance has a few internal problems and conflicts of their own.

I see it as none of their business. If what you have works then that is what counts IMO, and good for you.

[ivycat]

22. I have to agree

with everyone else. There is absolutely nothing wrong with staying home. No one should "feel" guilty for that choice either. If your family is in the position to be able to...then do it.

I myself have always said I want to be a housewife when I grow up. (I am 35, and I have a *gasp* college degree)

People cry about having the choice to work out of the home, but then bitch about and point fingers at the ones who choose not to. Can't have it both ways!!

[arthritisR_US]

23. it's nobody else's bloody business. If you can afford it then good on ya! This gal was

being an intolerant idiot, imho.

[Brickbat]

24. Women indeed fought to eliminate gender roles. But part of eliminating roles means that people are

then free to choose those positions knowing that what they are doing is a free choice and not coded with "submissive," "traditional," "barefoot and pregnant" or any of that shit.

I do not think we are living in the post-patriarchy. I do not think that everything we do is free of gender dynamics. I do think that there are people who willingly accept gender roles because they are gender roles and think it is the right thing to do to perpetuate those roles. I also think it's possible for some people to have the privilege to make decisions that are free of or at least emerging from what they think should be done for society and are instead choosing to do things that are right for themselves.

[seabeyond]

not to mention is the ability to have the stay at home dad too. somethng we are

seeing more of and works well.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elfin]

27. Being able to have one stay at home is priceless

to a household's well-being -- that is IF the one at home WANTS this role.

The opportunities for more significant work via volunteerism are endless and often more engaging and challenging than a paid occupation. Skill sets can be maintained this way and powerful networks can be created if the time comes that the one at home decides to re-enter full time paid work.

I speak from experience - I was so lucky to be able to choose this path. I never had to worry about who was going to take care of the children, I always had important volunteer work to keep my brain engaged, I made more true lasting friendships than any I ever saw being made at "paid" work.

However, along the way, the peer and societal pressure to abandon the route were constant - but thankfully not by my spouse.

And I consider myself a feminist. I celebrate those who take the other way and succeed - just not for me.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[elfin]

64. I never understood it

Their remarks seemed to relay that they thought I was "wasting" my talents and that was both a disservice to me and the world somehow.

It took many years -- but then one of them once again began complaining about her life and I remarked I felt so lucky to feel happy most of the time. She retorted "oh well, you have the environment group." I knew then that she saw how "rich" my life was compared to hers in challenges, satisfaction and a nucleus of like-minded and treasured friends.

[Flipper999]

28. I respect couples' decisions on this either way

I don't think it means that one's spouse is trying to 'dominate' them if they choose to stay at home. Child rearing is hard, and there is no clear and flawless method to doing it.

I don't know why your acquaintance had such a negative knee jerk reaction to your choice. There are terrible guys out there that force their wives to stay at home, but she shouldn't just assume that's true all of the time.

[The2ndWheel]

30. They are, without a doubt, the epitome

of everybody else. Living those lives of quiet desperation, trying to make it through the day.

[LiberalLoner]

31. I think that person had no right to tear into your wife like that, the decision is yours and hers ro

and you know, I was (am I suppose) a woman's libber and tried to live like a man in the Army, jumped out of airplanes and all that jazz and at this age and this stage of health I am gladly and gratefully staying at home while my husband continues with his career.

I always thought the movement was supposed to be about CHOICES and FREEDOM for men and women, not being FORCED to make the opposite choice of what we used to be forced into.

Shakes head sadly.

[havocmom]

34. In the Great Depression, a lot of people agreed to work less hours so more could work at all

My granddad was proud of his union's efforts to assure available payrolls were shared with the most workers possible. They members who were lucky enough to have little farms generally worked only if absolutely necessary to the job or their own families, deferring to those who needed money for groceries they could grow themselves.

And this idea that only worker bees have value is part of the foundation of many problems we face today. Money is the only proof of value? Gee what sort of society does THAT premise foster.

I do believe part of society's turning away from progressive movement stems from the fact that too many people are working too much. Without time to recharge, refresh, learn, grow, we become a stagnant people, and little more than domestic animals, racing through shutes and doors until we meet our demise.

[The Doctor.]

35. The woman was being ignorant.

She didn't 'fight' to force women into working out of home.

That's the point I'd pin on her.

[Cleita]

36. I'd say it's nobody's business but yours. I have had encounters

with these so-called feminists before, who don't seem to get the concept of freedom of choice. If a woman wants to stay home or a man for that matter and the spouse earns enough to support both of them, it should be a private matter. I hope you told that busybody to mind her own business. My husband at one point in our marriage could support me, but since we didn't have children, I preferred to work to get out of the house and to have money I could call my own and that I could contribute to the household expenses as well as for the extras that we couldn't afford when I didn't work.

[zipplewrath]

59. It's not a "static" choice either

There is a "phase" during which one spouse may not earn a direct income. But it may only last 5 to 10 years. In the lifetime of a family, or a marriage, that isn't exactly "forever".

[Robb]

37. Mrs. Robb had more earning potential

...my salary would've paid for child care, just barely. So we decided I'd stay home with the kiddo.

It's working out quite well, actually. I enjoy being something of a domestic, and I wouldn't trade my time with my daughter for anything a job would give me.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

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[seabeyond]

50. see... i am there with you. i told all the kids, mine, nieces, nephews when they were young

not only do we teach you stuff as adults.... you little ones teach me SO much about life that i have forgotten and a huge thank you to you all.

i see it as a blessing... not a curse

but then, when kids where really young, and two of them, i did get a bet pissy hubby got to go out in the real world. got to take a leisurely shower without concern and get ready for his day.

whereas i rushed thru every day cause it was a small amount of time i couldn't hear..... it was truly work when they were little. but the hard work has paid off adn htey are teens adn SOOOOO easy.

[sufrommich]

41. My thoughts are that I would have told the nosey

acquaintance to mind her own business!

[slackmaster]

43. The posting rules prohibit use of the epithet I'd use to describe your work acquaintence

:hi:

[NeedleCast]

44. My sister and brother-in-law have have had issues

My sister is a "junior manager" at a large financial institution and has close to a six figure salary in Des Moines, Iowa, where six figures goes a long way. My brother-in-law goes to school for nursing and otherwise stays home with their one year old child. While my Bro-in-law is looking forward to completing his nursing program, he may or may not ever actually work, and they are very happy together.

However, brother in law has faced various levels of derision from people, especially other men, who seem to think he's not a good partner because he doesn't contribute to the finances of the relationship. Comments like "So, you're going to finish school then start a job, right?" are common. He's a great dad who truly loves to spend time with his son. My sister makes more than enough money to sustain them comfortably and they seem to have reached a happy, mutual decision on this.

[Hippo_Tron]

45. I have no problem with it per se

I just can't imagine how you could live a fulfilling life doing it (at least for your entire life). On the other hand, I can't imagine that working a job you hate is very fulfilling either so it goes both ways.

[izzybeans]

49. There is a trend of more mothers (and some fathers) staying home and no one should

be made to feel guilty for their choice. Some people love their children more than their jobs. If my wife and I could afford it, one of us would stay home. We just can't. My brother-in-law just quit his job so that he could be home with my niece and nephew. Is he less of a man? His wife is an executive and he had a crap job.

Now he volunteers with his kids' school, trains for triathlons, and takes the kids to all sorts of extracurricular activities. I envy his life.

Work is not liberating, despite what the Nazi slogan said.

[seabeyond]

61. i know. i have actually had to tell people.... i like my kids. what a concept

isnt that sad. how we so casually mouth off about kids that a parent actually sounds out of the norm saying they "like" their kids.

[sui generis]

51. I can easily afford a stay at home partner

but my partner wants his own thing and housekeeping isn't his identity. And I love the dude but he doesn't have even the tiniest shred of talent for the kitchen. The menfolk of his entire genetic line were cursed from birth to always cause mega disaster in any kitchen they enter, and in spite of all sense and sensibility to the contrary I have had to practically ban him from ours. He's supernatural.

That work acquaintance was absolutely undeniably rude. Her generation didn't fight to eliminate traditions, they fought to give people choices. She's an intrusive aggrandizing self important twit.

Anyway, I can tell you that leaving the house at 5:30 every morning and not seeing the house again until 6:00 or 7:00 at night is not a lot of fun for working couples, when all you do is get ready to do it all over again the next day.

Our lives are so nano-scripted with social obligations, personal obligations, family obligations, pet obligations, not to mention the administrivia of bills, phone calls, letters & cards and being good neighbors that we're like robots Monday through Saturday, and god forbid we miss something or forget something because it just deepens the queue for the next day. There's not a lot of room for "us" some days, and even adding a regular date night for a while added to the pile. We have quality time over breakfast at 4:30 a.m. for an hour, so that's where we dug in.

Just the same I think it would be really nice to have someone taking care of the moving parts and being a happy homemaker, and I don't really care which one of us does it, but truth is neither of us would be happy doing it for long.

I lived in a trio for 10 years before this one, and we had the regimented rotating cooking and cleaning schedule, which actually got done a lot faster, but also had much less complicated lives.

If you support what makes your partner happy without giving up the things that define you, and vice versa for your partner, then you can't fail, whatever paths you choose.

[seabeyond]

66. god forbid housekeeping has anything to do with my 'identity". lol

otherwise, precisely with your whole post.

reality we live

[sui generis]

72. sorry I confused housekeeping with "homemaking"

:blush:

:P

Okay here's the latest supernatural kitchen event. We slept in last week on a night both of us had to work late. Instead of the usual yogurt, breakfast bar and coffee, I get up and make bacon & eggs, and he very helpfully drops a couple of pop tarts into the toaster. Somehow, the toaster got caught under the cord and the poptart only halfway popped out, leaving the element on. It shoved the toaster sideways which knocked the sweetener bowl into the Tassimo button. So the Tassimo starts spewing out water every thirty seconds, which is the only thing that made me notice that the poptarts were on fire in the toaster, but the smoke was going up the oven's hood so it didn't set off the fire alarm, even though my undercabinet lights were melting and sagging onto the counter.

So what does he do? He saves the day. He dons the kitchen mits, grabs the flaming toaster, runs into the back yard and sets it on the grill, then douses it with water. day saved. Except 15 minutes later I go back to refill my coffee cup and notice the toaster is on fire again, on the grill in the back yard and unfortunately has melted into my fabulous horrifically expensive grill, yep, down through the ceramic plate through the burner assembly, and onto the propane hose.

No, my baby is banned from lifting a finger in the kitchen, because we don't have time to shop for and replace appliances or insurance policies.

[seabeyond]

81. lol, cause though i do a good enough job, housekeeping isnt high up there. BUT

is your identity in your job? surely not. surely that isnt "who" you are.

not for me anyway. i dont know that it has been for decades. i got beyond that a while ago. maybe that is age. maybe not. but really, identity isnt in homemaking either, lol lol, not that good.

i really just look at it as a way of taking care of some of those issues you addressed, in the over all living our life.

i could do it. i dnt know that hubby could. like your partner has no desire. nothing more

[sui generis]

105. actually my identity is in the creative things I get to do

My Sundays I play piano, or cello, or write (rarely on DU). I worked on an opera for a long long time, but that is not a part time one day a week thing, and you have to be crazy wild-eyed einstein-hair "on" to keep momentum going in very complex projects like that. Even just composing for piano alone kind of requires that you touch it and develop the composition every day. Like a sculpture you can't see it hidden and emerging from the rock unless you touch the rock with a chisel every day.

Sigh. I also paint. I love chiaroscuro oil with griselle and ochre underpainting techniques, UNFORTUNATELY, oil takes forever to dry if you're doing griselle/glaze techniques, so I have eight canvases going at any time. I think my identity is "renaissance dude", in the figurative sense. My avatar is one of those canvases - that's my beau modeling for it.

I love art and the art world, performing arts, media, music, and fine arts. The cool thing is, my baby's interests intersect mine - he likes roman mosaic and mosaic from the Ravenna school (byzantine and the kind that LOOK like oil paintings, hanging in St. Pete's in the Vatican). Turns out it's a really cool hobby perfectly made for OCD, which I don't have but he does a good approximation of. :P

It's kind of fun being weekend crazy artist, but it's a discipline. You have to MAKE yourself do something creative, any little task to keep moving your projects along or they start gathering dust, literally. There's a lot of satisfaction in classical arts, but not a lot of money though, not enough for me to drop everything for art.

Oh goodness no about work identity! - I'm the boss, but keep work bundled up at work - complex financials and analytics systems - for the banking industry. I don't even let my employees work late or weekends as a general rule, figuring that it's bad management and planning if a project requires sacrificing personal life for work. I deal with THAT differently.

No my identity is that I'm a creative person, a bit of a polymath (studied music & medicine & financial systems in college across multiple degrees). Even in conflict I strive really hard to be a good person, and in life a good family man and a good neighbor.

[seabeyond]

116. well.

i love you avatar...

i love your post. thank you. that was my point i was sharing with you. prior to having done this sah job, and that is all it is to a point... it isnt our identity. it works the same way as a person who has employment. some may allow it to define them, but really it isnt who they are anymore than it is for you.

thanks for sharing this part of you. was fun. and THAT is who i am. i like to understand, connect, experience the why's of others.

[zipplewrath]

54. Nephew is a SAHD

Yeah, it took me a while to learn the lingo. Stay At Home Dad. Wife was the more "economically viable" and so THEY decided that he would stay at home and raise the kids, and she would do the "work thing". It almost complete and total role reversal (well, she still HAD the kids, and nursed them). She had to go on "work trips". He has to show up at the "business dinners". The crap they take is unfathomable. She got a some back handed compliment about "how it must be great to be the one to throw their feet back while he does all the work". He gets regular "checks" at schools and kids functions to ensure he is the "real" parent. The mothers don't get checked mind you.

It's a personal decision between the only two that have a say or an interest.

[jberryhill]

55. None - Why Should I Care How Other People Choose To Live?

Conversely, I don't care much about others' opinions of how I choose to live.

Your guest was being rude.

[happy_liberal]

57. Do we live to work or work to live- that is the question

What is a person's reason for being?

And how much to we really need to live?

My husband and I choose to work just as much as we need to to live because there a whole lot of life to live with the rest of the time. Most people get to the end of their life and say 'I wish I had more time' not 'I wish I had more money'.

It is absurd to say just because one person makes the money they have the power. My husband and I are partners. He makes the money, I do what I can at home to save as much money as possible by making all of our food from scratch. I value what he does, he values what I do...works out for both of us and their is no power struggle whatsoever.

[Zoeisright]

58. More power to them.

The whole point of the women's movement is that women get to choose what they want to do. If that's to stay at home with the kids, fabulous.

[w8liftinglady]

62. If it is a mutual decision,I think it's great

I worked part-time when my sons were babies to avoid daycare and participate in their school activities.I was lucky that my profession(nurse) allows me some flexability.I worked 2 jobs with my first son,while my ex went to school and cared for the baby.

[Cronus Protagonist]

67. Sex partner or business partner?

:)

[jwirr]

68. If you are lucky enough to be able to afford that situation, go for it.

That woman who is insisting that your wife has to go to work has forgotten that women's liberation was about choice. She wants to take that choice away from your wife.

The women in my family have never been able to afford that choice - most wish they could - especially when the children are young. Instead they all have to work to supplement their husbands wages. I as the great grandmother am left home babysitting.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

69. That person looks like a caricature of an "angry librul feminazi".

You know, those people who don't actually exist and are often used as rhetorical devices.

[RaleighNCDUer]

71. I would love to be a stay-at-home partner,

but I can't find a woman who will support me.

I will happily do the housework AND they yard work if I can get four hours/day to work on my writing.

[Book Lover]

74. I think you might do well to view the world today through her older eyes

if you want to understand most likely why she spoke as she did.

[Jim Lane]

75. In general, I agree with all the people saying it's your choice. One exception....

The one exception would be if the criticism came from someone who knew both of you well enough to know that it wasn't a completely free and mutual choice -- e.g., that you pressured your wife to stay home so you could feel superior. Under those special circumstances, somebody could reasonably (i.e., without tearing into you) call upon you to re-examine the situation.

From what you say, I'm guessing that this particular person didn't fall into that category, but rather was just reacting to the basic fact of a nonworking wife.

The old way was to impose a rigid pattern of working husband, nonworking wife. One change would be to impose a rigid pattern of two working spouses. A better change, one that would actually be an improvement, would be to recognize multiple choices as valid, including the nonworking husband and working wife. I say "would be" rather than "is" because your experience shows we're not there yet.

[seabeyond]

85. that is my one condition on this discussion. nt

[abelenkpe]

76. If you can afford to you are lucky and should do it.

Please forgive those of us who have to work. I get the opposite all the time: from family, from friends, from former co-workers who look down on me for "not choosing to stay home with my kids during their most vulnerable years." They act like they are so f-ing superior and pity my children. If I could afford to stay home I would. I feel guilty enough as is without their smarmy self righteous bs. So enjoy your children and the time you are fortunate enough to spend with them, but please, don't make others feel bad for not doing the same.

[Whisp]

80. sorry that had to happen to you. she was waaaaaaay out of line.

there are so many variations to life.
and so this debate as well.
Some women Are bound to their houses and families and are not free to work outside the home or go out but only tend to their families needs. Its a form of slavery to too many.

but for someone like your work acquaintance to go off on you like that is really off base.

[Still Blue in PDX]

82. My opinion: It's great if you can afford it and want it.

The women's movement was and is about CHOICE, after all. I worked part-time when my kids were young and I enjoyed being home with them, and I am happier when my house has some semblance of order.

[Oregone]

83. No biggie.

Its sad that its no longer economically feasible for it to be a choice anymore to have a single income family.

[Gman2]

84. Ask when her next day off is. Haul her ass to your house, you get the day off.

[Dogtown]

86. "But, what do you *do*?"

I'm a 61 YO male retiree. I'm fit and have no major illnesses.

People are frequently aghast that I don't *do* anything....


I don't bother to justify myself. I leave them free to judge me; that's all they want, anyway. Including the "feminist" that verbally attacked you. They just want you to act in a scripted way that doesn't threaten their particular reality-view.

[seabeyond]

87. exactly. i get that often enough. and you know. i have never sat on my hands, antsy and bored.

i find plenty to "do".

[Dogtown]

92. Exactly.

The posturing with men is particularly amusing. They hint that my wife is "supporting" me.

Truth is, she does. Thing is, she's more than happy not to have to shop, cook, or mop the floors.

It works for us, and it aint nobody's business but ours.

[Bunny]

88. I think that whatever arrangement two people make is nobody else's goddamn business.

Your acquaintance is an asshole and her comments were beyond rude.

Having said that, and as the mother of two daughters, I would advise any woman to develop and maintain marketable skills while staying at home. With half of all marriages ending in divorce, and child support notoriously difficult to collect, it's in a woman's best interest to be able to earn a decent living for herself and her children (if she has any) should the need arise.

[dugaresa]

89. everyone and every couple has a right to do what works for them

and people who want to tell you what to do should be promptly told to go to hell.

[ecstatic]

90. I think I would love to be a stay at home mom as long as I was treated

with the dignity and respect I deserve. Your "friend" might be jealous.

[cbdo2007]

91. I think it's probably better for the kids and the house-hold in general

if someone can stay home to take care of them when they're young.

But I don't really care if some couple chooses to do it either way. Their decision.

My wife would love to stay home full time with our kids but unfortunately we wouldn't be able to afford it (yet).

[Toucano]

96. We're human beings, not human doings.

Defining ourselves by what we "do" is pathetic.

The question for me is much larger than stay-at-home-mom, gender roles, and stereotyping.

It's about what we VALUE.

Your acquaintance is saying that participation in the world of commerce is more valuable than human development.

To say that commerce is more valuable than people is an obscenity that belies a great contradiction of contemporary society that has lead to a plethora of problems.

When you believe that commerce is more valuable than people:

1. You are willing to spend tons of money on bombs and guns while schools crumble and teachers are demonized.



2. You are willing to invade other countries and kill people to take their resources.



3. The low cost of consumer goods is more important than the cost of the suffering and exploitation required to produce the low cost.



4. Closing a profitable facility and putting an entire town out of work makes perfect sense if it produces 2% more revenue.



5. The value of everything is monetized. A tree has more value at the saw mill than it does in the forest because a stick of lumber is monetized immediately; clean air can't be monetized until the future.



6. Robbing investors is acceptable because their money is the commodity that endures. Their lives are transient.

In regard to the role of women, the goal was to free women of restraints and limitations imposed on them, not to impose different restraints and limitations.

Your acquaintance doesn't VALUE the contributions a homemaker makes. It's really that simple.

As long as women can expect to leave their homes every morning and bring home 80 cents on the dollar, I'm surprised anyone tolerates the necessity of both partners working outside the home.

[Juneboarder]

97. My wife WISHES she could stay at home

This is a constant struggle she goes through. She has a really nice position that she has held for the last 4 years and with this economy, she definitely does not want to give up a good paying job. At the same time, our son is 19+ months and each day that goes by is another day lost in his youth. Her dream would be to stay at home...

[cbdo2007]

107. I'm sure you all have thought of this...

but is there at least any way she could take off one day a week and work more hours the other four days, or some similar arrangement?

My wife and I are lucky to have some flexibility as she would love to stay home full time as well. Instead, her work gives her 1 day off per week (unpaid of course - so she keeps the position, seniority she's built up at the company, benefits, and we still get a good income from her) and then I was able to switch my schedule around to take one day off while the wife is working and then make up the time on other days or on the weekend if I need to. That at least gives us each one day off with the baby each without ruining our sanity or our finances too much.

Wish you all the best!

[Juneboarder]

138. Thank you for the advice :)

Every situation is definitely unique and different. My wife was able to secure a 4 day work week (10 hours/day). This has helped out tremendously and helped to bring sanity back into our lives!! :)

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

158. I recently changed to working four days

a week (roughly 30 hours per week). I feel this was the best thing I could do. I would have liked to have been a stay at home mom as well, but I have a great job that I just can't give up. 40 - 45 hours a week was just too much for me to handle with a baby and a school aged child. My husband works full time and is working on a master's degree too.

[seabeyond]

109. ya. it is a tug.

and almost two is so fun....

[Kahuna]

98. It's no one's business what arrangements couples make...

between themselves.

[paulsby]

99. this is first wave feminist crap. simone de beauvoir said it best

let me quote simone de beauvoir:

“No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.”

i am all for choice

and choice includes the choice of a woman (or man) to stay at home, and for that matter, for people to choose "traditional" gender roles *or* non-traditional.

[WolverineDG]

102. The whole point of the feminist movement was so women could have a choice

however, it is very clear now that the only "choice" that is acceptable is for women to work outside of the home. Women who choose to stay home are considered inferior, uneducated, brainwashed "victims" of men who need "real" feminists to come in & rescue them.

dg

[paulsby]

113. sadly, that wasn;'t the whole point. that's revisionist history

that's why i quoted simone de beauvoir, a giant in the early feminist movement

she was DECIDEDLY anti-choice

imo, TRUE feminists are PRO-choice

but many feminists, especially the first wavers, were not

they wanted to reengineer society. and simone et al didn't want women to HAVE the choice to choose traditional gender roles

i can (kind of ) understand their reasoning, since those roles were so entrenched. but to actually think people should be FORCED to adopt non-traditional roles is JUST AS odious as those who wanted to (and did) force women to adopt traditional role

it should be, and is, all about CHOICE

[seabeyond]

118. yup.

and i didnt know that. i was to young to know that. lol. so thanks for sharing.... but that also might give some insight into the whole issue of 1, 2, and 3 of feminist movement. so appreciate.

[paulsby]

120. no problem. it was a different era. i analogize it to early black seperatists

like malcolm X et al

i don't agree with the idea, but considering the times and the racism at the time, i can UNDERSTAND it

[seabeyond]

123. sure. all of these dfifferent societal issues....

we can look at the realities of them in truth without having to defend or dismiss or pretend. it really doesnt hurt, lol.

[BonnieJW]

101. I would call you lucky.

I stayed home with my three kids while they were small and didn't have to return to work until the youngest was in kindergarden. Ronnie Raygun made my return to work necessary. I felt blessed to be able to stay home with my kids while they were babies. I witnessed all their "firsts." After I returned to work, I felt so bad for young mothers who had to come back to work when their babies were just 6 weeks old. I always made sure to have flowers delivered to them on their first day back. I could find them crying in the ladies' room that first day.

[Tailormyst]

103. I would tell the acquaintance to mind her own business

I have stayed home and never had to defend it. But I was really young then also. I would LOVE to be able to stay home and just run my home. Instead I am rushed to both work and take care of the house.

[Dappleganger]

104. I would say that it's nobody's gotdamn business

what we do in the privacy of our kitchen. ;)

Seriously, I would shed that woman's 'friendship' like a worn out pair of shoes.

[Lugnut]

108. I mind my own business.

Since when are your choices the business of your acquaintance?

[get the red out]

111. I look at that as

none of my business, and it was none of hers. Some people seem to confuse someone's personal decision with an attempt to force that decision on the rest of society. There is a huge difference.

[Hello_Kitty]

114. Well that was rude of her.

As for a partner staying home, it should be a mutual decision and no one else's business. Tradition has dictated that it be the woman but as society progresses more men are opting to stay home. Also, I don't think there have to be kids in the picture for a couple to make that choice. The workplace isn't for everyone. Sometimes you have a situation where the non-working partner is taking advantage, as in laying around the house doing nothing and spending all the money but that clearly doesn't describe your arrangement. Sounds like your wife is a busy and productive woman, even if she's not earning an income.

[Godhumor]

132. It was an odd situation, but I consider it a pretty much broken relationship now

She's very opinionated but tolerated--generally with relatively good grace. It was just beyond the pale, to me, that she pursued this particular avenue of discussion in the way she did.

[madmom]

115. Simple reply...doesn't matter what other people think, it's what works for you!

[BlooInBloo]

122. You work aquaintance is an insecure whiner who is just making shit up. Ignore her.

[Hannah Bell]

124. the work acquaintance is a brainwashed fool.

[taught_me_patience]

125. It would be a deal breaker for me

I believe each partner should work to contribute to the family. In this day and age (especially in Los Angeles), it's too much of a burden for one person to shoulder the financial load for the entire family.

However, to each his own. Each person makes the best choice for their own family.

[Howler]

126. Geeze!!!!!! %$@#

You were not put here on this planet to live by that idiots standards!!!
You and you're partner are on this planet to live up to you're own high standards.

I am a stay at home wife with no kids.My husband and I simply could not have the Quality of life we both enjoy here in Howlerville without my creating and tending to it!
I don't owe anyone an explanation or a defense of my choices .

Bloody hell some folks are really beyond the pale.

[lib2DaBone]

128. Outstanding choice.. nothing better for kids than to have a parent at home..

..the souless Corporations have made sure that all adults in a family must work to barely survive.

Bust unions, keep wages low, offshore, outsource and then take your $ Billions in profit and hide them in the Caymen Islands without paying a dime of tax.

Privatize the profits so only the top 1% benefit from the imposed misery, but Socialize all the costs, from broken homes, lack of health care, failing schools, environmental damage, divorce, mental illness, war.

Anf of course.. remember to vote REPUBLICAN! Keep the scam going from generation to generation.

[Fuzz]

129. Try being a stay at home dad and listen to the shit you hear.

It's getting better though. The reward though is kids not raised by someone else.

[Green_Lantern]

130. I'm not a stay at home dad but as far as having reversed gender roles

I will be caregiver for my 3 month old niece when my sister returns to work.

I think having one parent stay home is ideal when you have small children but most people can't afford it.

I do think the parent who stays home should at least do something to get out of the house for sanity's sake though.

[Odin2005]

134. Tell your coworker it is none of her damn business!

[Arkansas Granny]

135. This debate has been going on since the emergence of the women's rights

movement back in the 60's. Women who chose to stay home were accused of being subservient and lazy by other women who were actively working towards passage of the ERA. Those who were really committed to the cause seemed to consider women who did not seek a career and chose to be "housewives" as second class citizens.

[earth mom]

136. I think that unless people are totally scraping by, two income families are unnecessary

and exist solely because of unchecked consumption and greed.

And why are people so willing to throw their children's welfare out the window so they can have the latest new toys, clothes, vacations, etc?

We've got it all backwards in this country and that's why this country is so damned screwed up!

[Hello_Kitty]

137. Or both could work part time.

And you're absolutely right about consumption. Being unemployed and living off meager benefits has shown me that there's a lot I can do without.

[earth mom]

139. Been there myself. There is nothing like living on next to nothing to make you understand

what's really important and what you really need to survive.

Hope you find a job soon! :hi:

[Hello_Kitty]

140. Thanks! I actually just got hired yesterday.

It's for a campaign so I won't have much time for DU!

[earth mom]

147. Hope it works out and Good luck!

:woohoo:

[treestar]

143. Ideally both could do part time jobs

If health insurance got de-coupled from jobs, why not? So it would give them both time with the children and an income in case of divorce, or just to feel fulfilled in a career.

[cutlassmama]

159. Exactly! Notice how the prision population has risen since it takes

two incomes to survive now. It wasn't that way before Raygun.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

160. I think we could live off of

just my husband's income or just my income, however we feel more secure financially with both of us working (as in if one of us lost a job the other could support the family in the interim). We can actually save money for our kids college and for our retirement this way. We can actually afford to fix our house when it is needed. We don't spend lots of money on things for ourselves. We don't go on expensive vacations. We also both have careers that we actually like. I don't think we are throwing our kids' welfare out the window.

[treestar]

141. That person was rude

It's none of her business. People should choose what they want.

That said, I'd never do it. I've seen divorces and the stay at home person is always at a great disadvantage and the law does not protect him/her all that much. In theory it does, but day to day until you get the court ruling could be brutal.

[proud patriot]

142. I was a stay at home mom for the first 10 yrs of my sons life .

I might still be if it weren't for needing health insurance and the money .

I think the freedom to choose is key here . No one should judge another for choosing differently IMO . As long as no one is getting hurt . :shrug:

[One of Many]

145. I really would have had to fight the urge ...

...to tell the friend she should worry less about me and my wife's working arrangements and concentrate on making me a sammich.

[uppityperson]

148. If it works for them, it works for them. Their choice. eom

[mamaleah]

149. OP, the woman who attacked you and your wife is obviously anti-choice.

REAL feminists support women regardless of their choices.

Some women (and men) want to be SAHPS. Others do not. Both have pros and cons and no one should be criticized for either.

[ljm2002]

150. I'd like to tear into your acquaintance...

...how utterly graceless!

Her actions were anything but constructive.

As a working woman and feminist, I have always hated it when people assume that I look down on stay-at-home moms (yes, it has happened). It's like people have this stereotype in their minds, not based on real people they have talked to but on some media mish-mash of "feminists / feminazis". And they think the stereotype is true because everyone else seems to think so too.

And then someone like your acquaintance comes along and just confirms all of the worst stereotypes.

GAAK!

[ismnotwasm]

151. My husband stays home

I work. He has Multiple Sclerosis and would choose to work if he could. Instead, he manages household affairs, and does charity work when he can. While he can still walk and drive and do things like mow the lawn (exhausts him for days) the situation bothers him, naturally, more than it bothers me, and only partially because of his illness.

Your wife has a choice. She made her choice. She may, at some point, choose otherwise. Choices are awesome.

Your dinner companion was out of line.

[RoyGBiv]

152. Here's what I think ...

I think it's not of my damn business how people choose to live their lives. As long as that little word "choose" is in there, it's all good.

Your acquaintance is the kind of individual that makes the ignorant hate feminism. As with any positive social movement, said movement attracts certain people with "issues." The acquaintance is actually the control freak. She wants you to live your life the way she thinks you should live it.

I was a stay-at-home dad for awhile, when it was possible. I never felt the "need" to defend it, but that was mostly because during that period of my life, people who tried to tell me how to act got cut off really quickly. But, yes, we faced some criticism. We mostly ignored it.

[TexasObserver]

153. I hope you told her never to come back.

Why would anyone put up with such a boor?

Tell her she's rude, self important, and wrong. And then tell her to go to hell.

It is entirely the business of the two partners to decide how they will raise their family, including who works outside the home and how much. Does the person who threw this snit fit even have children? Sounds like someone who has never reared kids, and probably shouldn't.

[Kaleva]

155. Sounds like she has some control issues herself

[MrSlayer]

156. I wish I had enough money for both of us to stay home.

As it is I have to work and my wife works from home and for the Phillies. Working sucks.

I might have had to smack the person you are referring to.

[REP]

157. Since I'm the childfree "housewife" I rather like it...

Actually, I'm disabled and had to retire, and have an income though I can't work. The pay ain't that great, and I hate housework, but the hours rock and I love my "co workers" - our cats.

[nickinSTL]

161. I have no problem with it - it's the couple's choice

if one does want to stay home and they can afford it, great for them.

Two of our close friends have that situation - he works, she stays home with the kids (age 9 months to 7 years).

They are both perfectly happy with the situation, so I don't see a problem. If she wanted to work and he insisted she stay home, that would not be acceptable, but she has no problem with it.

For us, my wife doesn't have any interest in staying home - she's been at home for years now due to not being able to get a job (until the census job she's working now) - and we can't really afford for her to not work. Not working hasn't been her choice, but it's not because I'm forcing her to stay home - the economy has.

Of course, we don't have kids to deal with, either.

[Matariki]

163. Nobody's business but the two people involved n/t

[noamnety]

164. What a great opportunity to mess with her.

Option 1:
THANK YOU! I've been telling my wife for years she needs to get off her ass and get a real job, but she refuses to listen to me, even though I AM the head of the house. Maybe you could talk some sense into her and let her know that when I tell her to get a job she needs to listen to me.

Option 2:
She tried for years to get a job but she was dishonorably discharged from the army for (get creative here) and nobody will hire her because of it. I try not to bring it up with her because it still upsets her.

[seabeyond]

165. you're funny. nt