Let's call it by its real name: Anti-choice. It's not pro-life

[Lex]

unless one thinks women dying in botched back-alley abortions is somehow pro-life.

[NJmaverick]

1. Framing is critical in all issues and unfortunately the forced birthers got the upper hand on this

issue

[Oregone]

2. They call pro-choice pro-death (or anti-life)

[NYC Liberal]

31. In a way. BUT they didn't get to frame those of us who are pro-choice as

"anti-life" .. so that's a plus.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

3. I've been using that term for ages. -nt

[fishwax]

4. and they tend to care so little about life once it's out of the womb

opposing all kinds of social programs designed to help children. :grr:

[BrklynLiberal]

7. THAT is the most hypocritical, disgusting aspect of their so-called "pro-life" stance.

Once the baby emerges from the womb, they could not care less what happens to it,or its parents.

[Deep13]

13. I'm pro-abortion and I voted today to raise my taxes...

...to fund special-needs children. I say "pro-abortion" because I really do think it is often the right choice, especially in these times of ignorance-only sex ed.

[Maru Kitteh]

42. I am pro-abortion in the same way that I am pro triple heart bypass

Heart bypass procedures and abortions should be legal, safe, available to anyone who needs them and the patients who undergo them should not have to fear any kind of stigma.

Nobody wakes up one day thinking "Gee! I'd really love to go have triple bypass surgery today" either.

[kenichol]

43. Good one nt

[Dogtown]

5. Amen.

:hi:

[BrklynLiberal]

6. The anti-choicers, obsessive controllers, forced birthers, won the framing battle without even

a fight from the pro-choice folks.

The repukes were listening to and acting on the advice of people like Frank Luntz, while the pro-choice folks were studiously ignoring people like George Lakoff..something that IS STILL HAPPENING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at how the Health Care debate worked out...even tho a bill was passed, it was a watered down, pathetic version of what could have been had the Democrats framed the issue the way it should have been framed. The repukes were allowed total control of the framing of the issues.

They are doing the exact same thing again with the Financial Reform issue.

When it comes to framing an argument or a political issue, the repukes are experts, and we are amateurs...almost by choice it would seem. We and our leaders have had the option to frame things more to our advantage, and rarely do.

[unblock]

20. yup, it hardly this one issue. republicans do ONE thing well, and that's marketing

the only thing that gets in the way of their astoundingly effective marketing is when their actual track record (e.g., shrub's) is SOOOOOO bad that even their great marketing can't make it not stink.


opposition to legal abortion should be called "forced birth".

the death penalty should be called "the government killing its subjects".

tax breaks for the rich (capital gains, dividends, etc.) should be called "class warfare" and "wealth transfers to the unneedy" and "tribute"

unions should be called "labor market mergers" and "labor strategic partnerships"

corporate mergers and acquisitions should be called "anti-capitalist competition reductions"

offshoring should be called "undermining the fabric of our society for personal greed"

political contributions to candidates should be called "legalized bribery"

violating regulation should be called "cheating"
regulators should be called "referrees"
complaining about regulation should be called "working the ref"

and the list goes on....

[BrklynLiberal]

34. I really like your suggestions!! We should make more of an effort to create the language

that makes our ideas clearer...
"wealth transfers to the unneedy" is my personal fave.

:thumbsup:

[unblock]

37. ooh, wait -- better yet -- "welfare for the well-off!"

:rofl:

[BrklynLiberal]

38. Getting better and better.

[WeDidIt]

8. I believe people can be pro-life and pro-choice

I also believe people can be pro-choice and not be pro-abortion.

But I'll grant you, the vast majority (upper 90s in percentiles, probably more than 99%) of those who call themselves pro-life are not pro-life but are anti-abortion.

[boston bean]

11. you cannot be pro life and pro choice, sir.

pro life procludes you from being pro choice.

[WeDidIt]

12. Only if you accept that those who call themselves pro-life

get to define what pro-life means.

I am pro-life, which is to say I am pro-choice.

I won't let negative anti-abortion idiots define me.

[Deep13]

15. If someone is morally opposed to abortion, but still thinks that his...

...opposition should not be controlling others, then he is both pro-life and pro-choice. Especially if those terms are taken literally and applied to matters beyond reproduction.

[boston bean]

17. That is the definition of someone who is pro choice, why make such an idiotic distinction?

[Deep13]

Justify the use of the term "idiotic."

I get a little sick of being called stupid by those who are unable to see the distictions I am drawing or the point I am making.

[boston bean]

22. You are giving the definition of choice. If you can't understand that, it your problem.

It is idiotic to proclaim that pro life is pro choice, when pro life could never be pro choice.

[Deep13]

24. Sorry for your limited vision. I'm done arguing with you. nt

[barbtries]

48. of course it could

i don't define pro life as being opposed to abortion. i'm totally pro life! healthy, happy, life, lived to the fullest. and i am pro choice. anti-abortionists use the term so they can define themselves as something positive and i choose not to let them take that from me.

[boston bean]

14. Go ahead and see how far you get on a "pro life" board telling them you believe in a women's right

to have an abortion.

come back and tell me how well received you were, ok?

[Deep13]

16. Right, those are really anti-choice boards using the pro-life (tm) label.

If someone really thought that his own opposition to abortion should not control others and truly thinks all those social services from health to education should be well funded, then that person is literally both pro-life and choice.

[boston bean]

18. no, again, you are giving the definition of pro choice.

it's really not that difficult to understand.

[Deep13]

23. Pro-life literally means in favor of life.

Why do you think the two terms are mutually exclusive. I'm anti-war, anti-poverty, pro-education, pro-healthcare and pro-equality. How is that not literally pro-life? I don't mean the way the RW has stolen the term and redefined it, but what it actually means.

[boston bean]

27. I don't give a crap what the two words put together mean. in a political context

pro choice means every choice.

Pro life means die if you have to giving birth.

I choose to live in reality in knowing what the reality of those two meanings are.

To do otherwise is a cute way to further the anti choice agenda.

[Rebubula]

29. LOLZ

You sound young.

[boston bean]

30. I'm not sure how to take that....

but thank you, maybe....

[onpatrol98]

32. Might be received better than you think...

Many pro-life and all pro-choice advocates believe that if a woman's health is in danger or if she is a victim of rape or incest, should have the right to choose to have an abortion.

For many, the distinction emerges when you press for whether or not abortions should be legal for women who are healthy and not a victim of a crime and decide not to carry a child to term.

In fact, I think the last thing I read was that a minority of people think abortions should be legal in all circumstances or illegal in all circumstances. But, I could be wrong there.

Interesting poll below...
http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

[boston bean]

33. maybe someone ought to give it the good ole college try!

Actually might be better for all concerned.

Try to convince those pro lifers to keep their nose out of everyone's business would be time better spent.

[barbtries]

49. oh, you meant that kind of "pro life"

the kind that needs to be in quotation marks. okay, i'm not "pro life" - i am however, pro life. :)

[The Straight Story]

9. Pro-choice - letting adults make choices that affect them. For that in more than just one area(nt)

[Deep13]

10. It's not merely anti-abortion either.

Once they outlaw that, the next step will be all methods of birth control. And repealing of women's rights generally. Sanger forbid! Bottom line-control freak men (conservatives) resent not being able to control reproduction. They want to retake control over that most basic of biological functions. Everything else they still control is insignificant compared to that. And maybe it's not fair that one gender has so much more control than the other. Unfortunately evolution is driven by survival, not fairness. Since almost all of the reproductive process occurs with a woman, they get to control that. For that reason, the rights and duties of men and women in reproduction will never be symmetrical.

[Ian David]

19. Forced-Birth. n/t

[Deep13]

26. But somehow that's not slavery.

:wtf:

[patrice]

21. Especially since the WAR that most of them wanted sooooooo much is very definitely not Pro-Life, nor

is it Pro-Freedom, so that pretty much insures that the enslaved masses will continue to have abortions AND unwanted children.

WAR IS ABORTION.

[muffin1]

25. K&R n/t

[Mme. Defarge]

28. "Choice"?

When you have to use a euphemism it's a big red flag that there is something wrong with whatever you're trying to talk about.

"Choice", when referring to abortion, perfectly underscores the extent to which the ethic of consumerism is played out in the social arena.

[hamsterjill]

35. If I'm forced to make a "choice" here

If I'm forced to choose between the use of the terms "pro life" or "anti-choice" to describe the right wingers who don't think a woman should have control over her own body, then my choice would obviously be the term "anti-choice".

However, it bothers me immensely that there ever has to be a word or term. Pregnancy to me, is a physical state that is between a woman and her medical care provider, and any other person who that woman chooses to involve in that situation. But whether or not to continue the pregnancy to term is NOT something that should be discussed politically, morally, etc.

The right has used this subject very creatively to ignite the fires of dissent and fire up their base, etc. And the right could care less about saving babies. It's all about getting people fired up over an emotional issue, while they go about putting the screws to the very people who vote for them over emotional issues!

To me, pregnancy is personal. No one else's business but the pregnant mother and perhaps the father, and therefore, no need for discussion. If a woman chooses to have a baby, more power to her. If a woman chooses to end a pregnancy for WHATEVER reason, more power to her, because it should be HER choice because the pregnancy impacts HER. She should not have to justify that choice to anyone.

[Odin2005]

36. Anti-Woman.

[City Lights]

39. Forced birth.

They want to force birth upon every female who becomes pregnant.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

46. yes. I prefer to call it the forced pregnancy

movement, myself.

[samsingh]

40. agreed

repugs are pro-death not pro-life. witness their support for hmos and bush's illegal war.

[LoZoccolo]

41. If you think it's productive spending hours arguing with them about their name, go ahead. n/t

[Kitsune]

44. I prefer to call it misogyny, myself.

Gets right to the heart of the matter.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

45. More like Anti-Woman. Framing it as "choice" minimizes the base-line survival issue

which it is, for women.

[barbtries]

47. thank you

you got my kick
eta - i also call it anti abortion. i call myself pro-life and pro-choice.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. I prefer "Pro-preggers". Punishing women for being naughty.

[spanone]

51. i've always been pro choice. who is not for life..? the right is great at framing

[ljm2002]

52. Forced-birth. That's the term I use...

...because that is exactly what their position is, forcing women and girls to give birth under all kinds of horrible circumstances. It captures their agenda better than "anti-choice", IMO.

[deaniac21]

53. Anti-Abortion would be the simplest.