You know, the one thing I've noticed about cop reality shows...

[MrScorpio]

Is that most people give up their 4th and 5th Amendment rights without blinking an eye.

It's as if they don't even know that they exist... and the second they do open their mouths or consent to searches, they're hosed.

I know that there people out there who are well aware of the rights... I just wonder why we never see these people on TV?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msFEj-UBU9Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OydW39DZzc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDLlEh0x2XA

[Puzzler]

1. "Reno 911" ... is the only cop "reality" show :)

[paulsby]

2. i've been ON cop reality shows fwiw

(from the cop side).

most people know darn well their 4th and 5th amendment rights

in the cases where they waive same rights, and it DOESN'T make good teevee, you don't see those episodes

that's why

fwiw, there are many cases where it's a good idea to waive your rights, and many cases where it isn't

regardless, in this day and age, there is not a sentient being who does not know miranda by heart. i've had 10 yr old kids recite it to me verbatim

just last night, i stopped some kids for a crime, and they voluntarily waived and i thanked them for their honesty and released them to their parents. happens all the time. woulda made for a boring episode, though

fwiw, everybody you see on COPS (i didn't realize this until i had the film crew with me) ALSO signed a waiver. iow, they WANT to be on teevee. even the most idiotic episodes, every single one of those dingdongs signed a release so the episode could air

[petronius]

4. That's the part I've never understood - signing the waiver

I would assume that the network would have to wait until the person sobered up (or whatever) to make it legal, and who in their right mind would agree to have some of that aired? Even if there's cash involved, the humiliation can't be worth it...

[MrScorpio]

5. Hell, I know that if I got stopped with a camera crew, I'm not signing any waivers

They that toss any footage of me on the cutting room floor

[paulsby]

13. news crews don't need waivers. entertainment shows do

the law distinguishes between news, and edited and aired well after the fact entertainment shows like COPS

if a news crime films you, they generally do not need to get a waiver.

generally speaking, that same exception for news crew applies to private citizens filming in public

but if COPS or some show like that does, generally speaking they do

[MrScorpio]

25. Right. I'm only talking about the entertainment shows... nt

[paulsby]

8. i don't think there's cash involved

never heard them mention it

i had a SWEET episode that didn't air because the guy wouldn't sign

he threw a frigging cleaver at me, then tried to light a house on fire by spraying fuel and trying to light it.

fwiw, i would have been justified (legally) in shooting him at either point

but i didn't

and of course, the news doesn't report "cop doesn't shoot a dood" so those cases also generally fall outside the public's knowledge of day to day cop stuff

but for these guys who sign the waiver, it's not humiliation. it's cred. seriously. they are proud of being on COPS

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. Its the same with Dog and the repo show in LA

Waivers are required from everyone and most of the real stuff is so boring that it never makes it to the episodes. I have been told that Dog and others are mostly staged at this point. Twice I have refused to sign waivers though it wasn't for shows currently on the air.

[paulsby]

9. i wouldn't be surprised if dog was staged

at least a bit. COPS isn't. trust me. i filmed with those guys a lot

people REALLY do that shit

and again, remember they only show the stuff people sign WAIVERs on. some of the REALLY dumb stuff doesn't make it to air

[MrScorpio]

10. Speaking of staged, I'm absolutely convinced...

That some of the shit that's shown is done for the sake of the camera.

Some of these guys know who's ripe to be made an example of, if things get too boring.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. Especially the repo show

What with the roid boy and the ugliest woman in the west and more A&Bs in 30 minutes than most cops see in a week.

[superduperfarleft]

18. The repo show pretty much admits at the beginning that everything is staged.

As if the wooden acting wouldn't tip you off.

[pipi_k]

31. that's exactly what it is...

I looked it up the other night, just to see.

The whole "crew" are acting out cases from the files of real repo companies.

[paulsby]

21. there is a theory in quantum physics that observing an experiment

necesasrily changes it

nuff said

[MrScorpio]

23. You have your dispatches, traffic stops, calls for assistance, even warrant servings

And I think those that things like that pretty much happen on the spot.

But, it's some of those "suspicious activity" stops where both cop and the suspect know each other that makes me suspect that the only reason that it's being filmed is because there's a camera crew there.

It's a pretty reasonable expectation that a cop who's been patrolling a neighborhood day in and day out recognizes most of the usual suspects when he see them on the street.

[paulsby]

27. i agree

the cop while filming WANTS to find "stuff" to get on teevee.

fwiw, most good street cops have a great working relationship with the average street criminal, or just average street person in their beat

for example, a cop who works a beat with some hookers will (if he's good) , be friendly and respectful towards them

the pros' will be great sources of info for the cops for REAL crime going on in the neighborhood and will always be straight up honest with the cops

[safeinOhio]

11. I had a college teacher many many years ago

for a criminal justice course. He had been a DA in NY City for years. He said in all of his time there he had never got a conviction for murder on any suspect that refused to be interviewed by the police and DA. If you have ever been to a trail with a cop as a defendant, all you'll ever hear is "I plead the fifth".

[paulsby]

22. selection bias, yet again

i keep explaining this


here's a hint. in all the cases where a person accused of homicide DID talk to police and subsequently the case was dropped or wasn't charged etc. then the DA necessarily wouldn't have PROSECUTED those cases.

people have a really hard time understanding selection bias.

i interviewed probably 80-150 people in the last month, where at least they were suspected of a crime, to some extent

let's say 99% of those never make it to court

do you see how that skews the stats, from a perspective of somebody who PROSECUTES cases? iow, takes on cases where there IS enuf evidence for prosecution

here's a case that happens on occasion, and has happened to me

i approached a guy breaking into a car with a coat hanger. 2am , deserted parking lot.

the registered owner of the car is not him. i ask him what he is doing. he is being QUESTIONED. he says, it's his girlfriend's car and he is driving it with her permission, but he locked himself out and the keys are inside.

if he does NOT answer my questions (which no sane person would decide not to do but he certainly has the RIGHT not to) he will end up getting arrested? why? because i have PC to believe he is unlawfully trying to enter the car belonging to another person. when he TALKS to me, i can confirm his story and he may even get some help in getting in the car

those cases never make a case docket or DA's office

selection bias.

the cases that make the DA's office are ones where sufficient evidence is obtained to charge

hth

[Gman2]

26. Heres what I didnt like. They cuff you, intimidate you, uncuff you without explaination

dotn tell you the outcome, are too embarassed not to scram getting away. They obviously dont care much about your 4th, and so could be assumed to visit weekly. The only shred of knowledge you get, is a letter saying you were not arrested. Period. WTF. They certainly didnt want to tell me I was cool. Not to worry about their doing similar home invasion. Nothin".

[paulsby]

28. that hasn't been my experience

either on the side of the person being questioned by the cops.

or as the person doing the questioning

ime, the only time i had a (semi) bad experience with cops was when i acted like a know it all asshole smartass and insulted them

did they act a little unprofessionally in return? sure.

but every time i was civil and respectful, i was treated as such

and that includes the time i was stopped as a possible armed robbery suspect

[safeinOhio]

34. May have been different in those days as

he was a DA in the 50s and 60s. He said it was almost impossible to go up against anyone that has given no story. Then to go into court and find out what the defendant says with no way to research or prove other wise. I think his story holds some truth. Like the only suspect in the case has been IDed by a bystander, most likely a mug shot, and that is all you have. The lawyer brings in a dead ringer and ask if the witness is sure it wasn't him and the defendant comes up with a "shadow of doubt" alibi. If I was charged or arrested for some thing I know I did not do, I would say nothing, just like all high profile people that have hired a great lawyer are told to do. Even if you are involved in a shooting that is justified, if you are smart, you hire the best lawyer you can and do as he or she says to do before any interview.

Remember the police and DA can lie all they want to, legally, and you can't. They can say they have 10 witnesses that saw you, when they have none and talk you into one of those plea deals.

I think there may be many people that plea even though they did nothing because they are lied to and told they are going to do life.

[superduperfarleft]

15. You don't have to answer this if you don't want to,

and it's mainly out of my own curiosity, but I've seen pretty much every single COPS episode multiple times, and I vividly remember some of the Washington state episodes, so I almost guarantee I'd recognize you if you could name some incidents.

You don't have to answer, I'd understand not wanting private info out there, I'm just curious.

[paulsby]

36. i'll pass :)

but i appreciate it.

[Gman2]

3. After four thug guns in my face at midnite, and insisting that they could come in

no matter what, I said, I cannot stop you physically, so I guess, do what you are going to do. After I insisted to know why. They said I was beating a woman, and throwing her loudly against the wall. I said, obviously, I was asleep for many hours. They didnt like my fourth routine. I put them on notice.

As they left, having put me in handcuffs, and threatened to imprison me, for being a med marijuana patient, one said that my not allowing them in IMMEDIATELY, is what made them certain I was guilty. His words, verbatim. I said, if I knew they were pals, I would have had tea ready. And that I would have to locate that ghost that he said he heard crying.

YOU HAVE NO FOURTH AMMENDMENT rights. And if you have anything, it applys only in court, not on the street.

[Gman2]

12. Oh, and about the fifth. I lectured them, the whole time I was in cuffs

about their right wing assumptions, and their idiotic notions of med marijuana patients. I did so for two hours. They kept telling me to shhhhhh, I would wake the neighbors. Finally telling me I talk too much. I expected him to beg me to take the fifth.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. Actually you do, and the protector of those rights are recording devices

Cops at this point are finally getting used to being filmed. Always tell them that they are being recorded and they tend to be a bit better behaved. Those that don't make Youtube. I have signs posted on my property and carry a mp3 player that is also a recorder. Paid off a few times over the years.

[mrcheerful]

20. Yep because unless there is video showing the event it becomes your word against the polices and whe...

goes into court seldom is your word taken over the police without witnesses or video showing what happened that lead to your arrest. The reason the nit wits sign waivers for Cops to release the episode is they hope it will show something that could be used in their defense. The major problem I have with the show Cops is how they slant the show to prove that giving up your rights is something good citizens gladly do, only guilty criminals refuse to tell their "side" to police.

If you listen closely you can hear the tactics police use every day, see if you had told me you had this nickle bag in your car I would have wrote you a ticket and sent you on your way, police are using Cops to get the ideal that by talking to police your going to be let go without jail time, what few know is with the ticket they are then at the hands of the courts who will either fine them or jail them, the ticket is just an agreement that you will show up in court on your own free will. Thats not to say their aren't street smart folks out there that don't know their rights, but when you see those types on Cops the episode always ends with the police saying "see if you had talked to us you wouldn't be sitting in the back of the police car".

[EFerrari]

6. It's a weird accident that an old friend of mine invented "Cops".

And when Mike Moore asked him if he would film white collar criminals, my friend said, sure but, they have to be willing to take off their shirt and run down the street.

Maybe the people you're thinking of are just fully clothed?

:rofl:

[formercia]

24. Having a Mullet and some Ink helps too.

:rofl:

[Taitertots]

17. From what I've seen they don't ask until they could without your consent

Getting the person to openly consent just makes it easier later.

[JuniperLea]

19. Know what I've noticed?

Guys without shirts get arrested!

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

29. Now tho ...

we will need to show our papers to prove we are who we say we are !!!

Yea(!) America, well at least for now just Arizona. Let's see that stuff on any of the "reality" cop shows.

"O.K. Sucka. Hands on the car. Show me your papers"

Are you outraged? If NOT, why not?

[rustydog]

30. I always told my kids, even if you have "nothing to hide,"

If the police want to search your car, make them get a warrant detailing the probable cause, what they are looking for and why. Always be polite and professional, but do NOT surrender a Constitutional right.

[Rex]

32. If you are not guilty, why are you hiding behind the constitution?

That is the attitude - unless it is someone with a lot of money, then take the 5th!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

35. I had a cop take that approach with me once

He had requested to search my motorcycle and I had said no. He then told me that in his professional experience those who refused requests for search etc generally had something to hide. I replied, nice try, request denied. He pressed on and repeated his statement. I replied that in my personal and professional experience which was vastly larger than his, cops who have to resort to cheap tricks like that were bottom of the barrel types one step away from getting fired. What part of request denied did he not understand and did he remember that we was being recorded? He turned and walked away at that point.

[DailyGrind51]

33. And, most of the perps are white guys with Southern accents and no shirts!

[MilesColtrane]

37. They'll do more than give up their own rights to authority figures.

They'll violate the rights of others if they are asked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[davepc]

38. Don't talk to the police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc