would you vote for obama again?

[historian]

Don't answer based on the fact that he is the lesser of two evils but rather based on his own merits. He is continuing the Iraq war, approved the assassination of an American born Muslim cleric, Guantanamo is still going strong (shades of bush?), refuses to allow a special prosecutor to investigate and possibly charge Bush Cheney et al for war crimes, has as his economic team the same thugs from the Goldman Sachs who perpetrated the biggest fraud yet in US and probably world history, throws money at the bastards so they can award themselves huge bonuses and so on... All right before you bite my head off, he did pass the health care bill which hopefully will be a good thing and he did change the student loan rip off but overall I definitely would not vote for him again.
The only thing i ask is to please let us have a polite discourse and lets not fall into insulting and name calling mode.

[TwilightGardener]

1. Resounding YES.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. LOL

fail.

[Incitatus]

3. yes

[Warpy]

4. Would you vote for McCain and Palin?

Seriously?

[sandnsea]

5. Oh no, I'd definitely vote for McCain

:eyes:

[Oregone]

44. Thats the only alternative?

There is also the SitAtHome/Masturbate ticket



Just saying

[MilesColtrane]

278. Or, the leave the country ticket.

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

6. Yes!

He's done more good for this country in this very short period of time than has been done in decades.

[flvegan]

7. WAIT!!!!!!

Okay, go.



on edit: DUer Occulus (sp?) made this, not me. I have zero talents in this field.

[arcadian]

Who the hell made that?

That is epic. Where's PETA and Bush = Obama? :rofl:

[flvegan]

26. DUer Occulus!

Awesome, ain't it?

I hope I spelled their name right.

[arcadian]

33. I think it's one c

That is the best I've ever seen on here. :rofl:

[Occulus]

214. Two C's.

:D

I think this is only the first of the Meta-DU 3D stuff. I had too much fun making this for it to be the only one.

[cali]

21. now that is a thing of beauty

:rofl:

[paulsby]

30. wow. lol. props to occulus. that's GREAT nt

[superduperfarleft]

34. Eh, you forgot Lady Gaga.

Otherwise, thumbs up to you, sir.

[cherokeeprogressive]

63. No surprise that it's missing Civil Rights for All...

[Arugula Latte]

102. Also ...

"Douchebag." That was one of the funniest threads in DU history, IMO.

[Mojeoux]

83. HELL Yes,,

:popcorn:

[goclark]

176. Absolutely

[Arctic Dave]

100. Holey Moley! I bow to its greatness. All hail Uber Popcorn!

[Arugula Latte]

101. What, no room for "cornflake chicken" on the bucket?

:rofl:

That is too funny, and ever so "inside baseball."

[Hutzpa]

111. Nice

This is too cool.

[Hekate]

116. I brought garlic butter. Want some?

[flvegan]

122. Absolutely!

[DevonRex]

228. .

:nuke:

This is where we part company, Hekate. Garlic butter on popcorn? OMG. Blasphemy.

I'm starting the party of No Smelly Popcorn Toppings, the only GOOD Party of No.

[Hekate]

234. LOL

Usually I just like plain salted butter myself, but this is an Occasion, right? :rofl:

Hekate

[DevonRex]

249. Well...

okay, as long as you bring the really minty gum and breath sprays to use afterwards.

}(

[TK421]

268. Mmmmm....I also sprinkle grated pecorino romano on mine

[devilgrrl]

125. +1

:-)

[Uzybone]

128. Awesome

[mzteris]

133. you just couldn't WAIT to use that,

could you?

:rofl:

[flvegan]

134. Been

waiting all day!!

[Rabrrrrrr]

143. What is "lower merion high"?

[cherokeeprogressive]

144. I believe it's the school that issued laptops then used them to take pictures of students. n/t

[Occulus]

209. The school spycam threads.

Although a new addition to the popcorn lexicon, it's a very worthy entry.

I may add something else later on. It's hard to squeeze in all the worthy topics and still have the font readable.

[msanthrope]

150. Anyway to add 'breastfeeding'? That is awesome! n/t

[robertpaulsen]

161. Awesome! I would add "tipping" to the other side of that tub. n/t

[underpants]

165. Laura Branigan throws like a girl

:rofl:

[Occulus]

206. Big thanks to everyone!

I thought it was time we had a big ol' bucket. Feel free to use this wherever/whenever it's appropriate.

For the curious, I used the open-source 3D modeling/animation/compositing package Blender for the modeling and lighting, and the GIMP to create the textures themselves. It was a fun process, and I'm happy to share it with all of you!

[redqueen]

210. Great job!

:thumbsup:

[Warren DeMontague]

211. Nice work.

:thumbsup:

[Richard Steele]

213. As someone who was once well-known for creating images for DU, I salute you!

That's a very nice piece of work right there. :patriot:

[CakeGrrl]

8. YES. I'll put you down for a NO.

Just a wild guess.

:rofl:

[JBoy]

Do you mean in the 2012 general election, against a Republican opponent?

Or is this some hypothetical do-over?

[polichick]

9. Against a Republican, yes. Against a progressive/liberal, no. nt

[RT Atlanta]

10. does howdy doody have wooden balls?

n/t

[Rex]

11. Any day.

You have to tell me first who would be his opponent!?

[stray cat]

12. Given the other democrats and repubs - yes

[Ian David]

13. Yes. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

14. Unfortunately I'm not a self-proclaimed "true progressive"...

So, yes.

[cali]

15. certainly. and your critique is just a wee bit narrow.

[emulatorloo]

99. more like hyperbolic and one-dimensional

[DJ13]

16. It depends on who runs against him in the primaries

If he wins that (and I have little doubt he would right now) then yes I would in the GE against a Republican.

[Lil Missy]

17. Of course.

[seabeyond]

18. between obama and a repug? in a second. nt

[The Straight Story]

19. People vote for parties, not for individuals (nt)

[Kolesar]

20. What did you come here to talk about?

You have everything but the weather in there.

[Smarmie Doofus]

22. Not in a primary.

Assuming there's a mainstream DEM alternative. The Prez and the gang are off the reservation.

If he's the nominee, probably yes in NOV. Depends on whom the evildoers nominate. In any case, I can't see crossing state lines to canvass in a battleground state like I did last time.

[LyndaG]

23. Can't say YES fast enough!

[azmouse]

24. Absolutely would.

[gratuitous]

25. NOT A CHANCE!

Golly, our nation sure missed an opportunity when we didn't elect the late John McCain* and Sarah Palin in 2008.

That's about as polite as I can get for such an asinine question. Thanks for asking, though!

*Surmise based on my estimation of Mr. McCain's extremely abbreviated life expectancy when it was determined that he was in Mrs. Palin's way.

[lpbk2713]

49. I've voted for every Dem Prez nominee since JFK.

I see no reason to change now.


Ed: I posted this in the wrong place. This was meant to be a reply to the OP. :silly:

[ZombieHorde]

27. If he makes a seemingly (to me) honest effort to have DADT overturned I will probably vote for him

again.

I currently believe President Obama is ending the Iraq war.

I don't believe he made an assassination order. I don't think capture or kill = assassinate.

I would like to Bush prosecuted, and I would like to see new economists, but these are not enough for me to withhold my vote.

[ShortnFiery]

28. No. eom

[watercolors]

29. I intend to!

nt

[leveymg]

31. Against McCain-Palin? In a heartbeat. Can't think of a single Republican since Lincoln

who I might even consider voting for.

It's always a choice between lesser evils, silly.

[cali]

32. hey, I thought you wanted a discussion. looks to me like you're simply a little hit and run

artiste.

[Hekate]

124. It's a classic "Let's you and him fight" post. There's another one asking ...

... what our personal definitions of pro-life and pro-choice are. :eyes:

Hekate

[old mark]

35. Absolutely, yes certainly. McCain is a fucking asshole who should not be a

dogcatcher, and Palin is worse.

I actually LIKE nearly everything President Obama has done, and my few complaints have to do with his erring on the side of conservatism and "bipartisanship", and lack of firmness on gay rights and immigration reform.

I want to see a LOT more republican ass getting kicked in his second term...and yes, I WILL vote for him then, too.

m

[abelenkpe]

36. yep.

Like him and really the alternatives are all clearly hazardous to anyone not in the top .1%.

[Pirate Smile]

37. Yes!

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[namahage]

39. Wow. Throw elbows all over the place, then ask people to play nice.

[DCBob]

40. The man's a f'king genius.. He made all the right moves to save this country from economic disaster

even in the face of coordinated obstruction from rightwing politicians, rightwing media and rightwing business and also stiff resistance from many in his own party. Well done Mr President! You deserve another 4!

[mulsh]

41. HELL YES. even when he isn't doing stuff I support he's a vast

improvement over every other president in my life. That includes Kennedy I voted for him primarily because he is the only politician I've encountered who strikes me as a better person than me. He's willing and able to work way harder than I am, he's far more and demonstrably more intelligent than me. And to paraphrase his answer to that stupid "boxer or brief" question, he looks good what ever he wears.

I voted for him expecting to disagree with some of his decisions and issues, I expected to be annoyed when his promised timetables didn't work out.
But he and his administration started changing things almost as soon as he finished the first oath and have been working hard and doing mostly as promised ever since.

all that aside he is the bravest man to hold that office since Truman, Mr. Obama lives with his mother-in-law.

HELL YES I'll vote for him again.

[rubberducky]

42. In. A. Heartbeat!

[MUAD_DIB]

43. Yes, without question, jerkface.

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[barbtries]

45. of course i would

and it is not possible not to take the alternative into account.

[scheming daemons]

46. An unqualified YES.... he's been the best President this country has seen in 50 years

..

[Arkana]

47. Resounding yes.

What's your next disgustingly-loaded question?

[Roselma]

48. Definitely!

[noamnety]

50. I'll vote against him in the primary

in favor of someone who represents the left.

[Kahuna]

71. What primary?

:rofl:

[Aramchek]

78. the Double-Secret Primary, of course

[Kahuna]

93. Ahhh. Thanks for the clarification.

;)

[noamnety]

139. Your response was rude

But to answer your question, I would expect a primary, just as Clinton had a primary in 1996. Due to his escalation of war, compromising of women's rights, and corporate stance on several key issues, I would vote for the other person in the primary.

Could Obama Face 2012 Primary Challenge Over Afghanistan?
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Could-Obama-Face-2012-Primary-Challenge-Over-Afghanistan-1776

"Because if he‘s compromise and everything so far, and as self-defeating as it might be, the progressive caucus and progressives would abandon him, if necessary, if this would be the policy of this administration into 2012. If it‘s necessary to find somebody else to run against him, I think they‘d do it no matter how destructive that might seem at face value." -- Olbermann http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32691450/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/

"Make it palatable or make it go away or make yourself ready, not merely for a horrifying campaign in 2012, but for the distinct possibility also of a primary challenge." - Olbermann http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34464730/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/

[Kahuna]

146. .....

:cry:

[greencharlie]

51. depends...

depends on who (if anyone) primaries him. If it were aomeone like Howard Dean...

[Dr Fate]

52. I may vote against him in the primary, depending on how Wall Street reform goes.

I've always voted straight DEM in the past, so I hope no one gives me a reason to change that trend.

[DCBob]

54. NOBODY is going to primary this guy...

There might be a third party, Green/Naderish, or somthing like that but no Democrat will go against this President.. especially after what he has accomplished already and will have accomplished by 2011-2012. Forget about it.

[Dr Fate]

57. I hope you are right about most of that.

If no one runs against him in the primary due to how happy the DEM base is, then great.

I hope I'm not being unrealistic if I look forward to Obama reigning in his base with some really strong Wall Street reform- that would be my best scenario.

Note my Obama icon- a reminder that I voted for him and that I do think that I am owed a voice w/o being lumped in with Greens, etc.

I believe Obama is a resonable man who will still listen to me on at least some levels.

[DCBob]

61. The biggest challenge was the economy and although that's not a done deal yet obviously...

it does look like his gutsy "against the grain" decisions made last year were right and he deserves to get the credit. That in of itself should give him support of everyone his party if not the entire nation.

[Dr Fate]

73. We agree- the economy is key. n/t

n/t

[madinmaryland]

114. I think that would be the guy who primaried against Clinton in 96.

:rofl:

[Dr Fate]

123. Not familar with him. I voted for Clinton. Voted for Obama in the primary this time.

And as you can see by the icon that I still display proudly, I voted for him in '08.

I also conceded to the possibilty that he may not even have a challenger in '12. That would be a sign of contentment amongst the base, so that would be awesome.

Laugh at me all you want-I'm immune to those tactics. I do feel that DEMS need to listen to people that give them money, support & votes. I know- crazy, radical, far left stuff.

The cutesy rilly laughy-laughy guy shit makes me think that you dont respect me. If disrespect is the name of the game, I can surely return to the favor to you in spades- but since we are not 14 years old, let's avoid that, shall we?

[onehandle]

53. Yes. nt

[MrSlayer]

56. There really isn't much of a choice.

Centrist (corporatist) Obama vs. generic right wing psychopath? Hmmm, this is a real toughie. Of course. I would vote for a real liberal in a primary over him but in the general President Obama has to get my vote.

[Caliman73]

58. No name calling, but a critique

The way you structured your question and statement is rather poor. You ask whether we would vote for President Obama again, then you construct the choice around a number of things which he has done which you take issue with. You do not allow for comparison by offering anyone he might be running against, therefore you put responders in the position of tacitly approving actions which we may not agree with by casting our vote with the president. Just poorly structured.

If President Obama was running against say, Senator Bernie Sanders, then my vote would go to Sanders. If he was running against ANY Republican, then I would vote for him in a heartbeat. There are policies that the President has continued or started that I disagree with, but a vote is not just a statement of total agreement. It is a calculated decision of who is best to represent you given the field of candidates.

[zbiker]

59. nope, not with

a clear conscious anyway, simply voting for the party line is not a vote cast wisely, and until he actually addresses unemployment, rejects the methods he has been allowing congress to use to get things done (sorry but these methods are just plain bad for the country) and steps up to our vice president and impolitely to shut the f##ck up and quite going off the prompter, then no i could never vote for him again.
sorry to say, i have been greatly disappointed. i have went from yes we can to no he didn't

[Hekate]

135. Did you vote for Obama the first time? Are you aware that the Executive Branch has little effect on

Are you aware that the Executive Branch has little effect on the Legislative Branch? President = Executive. Congress = Legislative. The US federal government has 3 branches and the President is not the boss of the Senate or House.

If he's lucky as well as gifted he can influence some of the legislators to fulfill his agenda, but the voters can always send up an opposing party, as happened to Bill Clinton. Remember that fiasco? Clinton the Democrat had to deal with -- and was almost brought down by -- a Republican Congress. Republican Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich *shut*the*federal*government*down* in a fit of arrogance.

So aside from the fact that the tenor of your complaint makes it sound like you never liked either Obama or Biden in the first place, you are blaming the president for things out of his control ("allowing" congress), and quoting RW talking points.

:shrug: Really?

Hekate

[emulatorloo]

137. "Until he steps up to our vice president and impolitely to shut the f##ck up and quite going off the

prompter. then no i could never vote for him again."

LOL Free-Range Joe. I kind of like Free-Range Joe.

[Libertyfirst]

185. I have gone from yes to hell yes.

[Libertyfirst]

187. Go, Joe., Go, Joe, Go, Joe, Go, Joe! A Great Vice-president.

[Wickerman]

60. What an irrelevant O.P.

We don't live in a vacuum. I can't not "answer based on the fact that he is the lesser of two evils..." There was Obama and there was fuckwad and twitbrain on the flipside of the Obama/Biden ticket.

In a perfect world would I vote again for Obama against.. Who? John Kennedy? Fine man, but would he cut it in today's political arena? Doubtful. Washington? Too many skeletons in his closet, too. I could go on with that line of reasoning but you get the point.

The reality is, Obama is taking baby steps in some areas, letting us down, apparently in others, but he is laying a helluva foundation for others to build on if those who come behind him show half the courage he has. Radical change simply isn't going to happen in this day and age and if it does, it won't last nor will the party that creates it.

[Kahuna]

67. ...

:applause: :yourock:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

81. Standing. Ovation.

:applause:

[Sheepshank]

62. you question is a tad lopsided

and feels much like the Republican phone poll that calls and asks:
"Do you think the record trillion dollar federal deficit the Democrats are creating with their out-of-control spending is going to have disastrous consequences for our nation?" After a short irritating moment I answered "Hell no. There are no disastrous consequences for out nation!"


After a deep conscious momentary blink of consideration to your question I'd say "hell yes I'd vote for Obama again!!!"

[iris27]

64. I didn't vote for him "on his own merits" the first time around.

I'll vote for him again, but again, as a "least shitty option out of those who actually stand a chance of winning".

I don't even want to contemplate what sort of amoral fucks the Faux-Maverick/Moose administration would be contemplating as SCOTUS nominees right now, had Obama not won...

[Kahuna]

65. 100%, Yes! I'm very proud of the job he is doing.

:patriot:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

66. I didn't the first time. The reasons I didn't then are still applicable now.

He's a centrist who's still pursuing centrist, "politics as usual", policies that I don't agree with. :shrug:

[Scurrilous]

68. Yes. n/t

[pinto]

69. Yes, and will.

:hi:

[proteus_lives]

70. Hell Yes!

[VMI Dem]

72. Nope.

[Kerrytravelers]

74. Happily and without hesitation.

[Lisa D]

75. YES! n/t

[Tailormyst]

76. It really depends on if he changes his course or not

[southernyankeebelle]

77. YES, YES, YES

[mcar]

79. Absolutely yes!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

80. On his own merits? No, I would not.

I would prefer a liberal President not so beholding to the status quo.

[VOX]

82. Hell. Effin'. YES.

Has he fixed everything on my "perfect president" to-do checklist? No, far from it, and I will keep up the pressure there.

But look at who's obstructing, denigrating and savaging him relentlessly, and without cause -- rednecks, big-business assholes, insurance and big pharma companies...all of which means, he's doing something right!

[golddigger]

84. Against a republican: yes.

Against Bernie Sanders: No

[NYC Liberal]

85. YES. nt

[flakey_foont]

86. definitely YES

[Mother Smuckers]

87. It depends

on future events. shrug

[sendero]

88. I'd never vote for a puke...

... but if Obama's all we got then I'll stay home.

[Naturalist111]

89. What other rational choice would I have?

Ron Paul-Anarchist
Palin-Touched

[madamesilverspurs]

90. Absolutely.

No hesitation. No doubt. Yes, I would. Yes, I will. Proudly.


-

[Dappleganger]

91. Absofuckinglutely!

Any more lame ass questions?

[mikekohr]

96. ditto nt

[frylock]

92. will there be an investigation of cheney and chimpy?

if not, then no. i'll go back to voting third party.

[elocs]

94. You want polite discourse yet you start off dictating how your question may be answered.

I see this either going nowhere or going badly.

[kimmerspixelated]

95. I think I probably would. Folks he is doing an impossible job.

And it's still so nice to have a prez I actually respect and like to hear speak! No prez is going to be perfect. Not going to happen.

[hobbit709]

97. If he's the nominee, Yes.

Though if there's a primary challenge, maybe not.

[emulatorloo]

98. Of course! AND NO WAY AM I GOING TO SIT HOME ON MY FAT ASS IN 2010 EITHER n/t

[Change Happens]

109. +1

[Ichingcarpenter]

103. Damn Right

and I will do it the next election until someone comes along that's better
who is within this corrupt system

But I don't see them surviving, either in the past or the near future.

[tomm2thumbs]

104. I would, but it is the idiotic parts of the country I worry about - those seduced by the new

sad but true

[Shell Beau]

105. Let's see how the rest of this term goes.

[Urban Prairie]

106. Yes, and it is President Obama for me or bust in '12.

If he decides not to seek a second term in '12, I believe that the GOP candidate would likely be victorious, no matter which Democratic candidate would replace him. The only possible scenario for a victorious Democratic POTUS other than Obama in '12 would be if Hillary Clinton became the Democratic candidate for POTUS against the Republican candidate Sarah Palin. SP would be steamrolled by HC in the Presidential debates.

[Change Happens]

107. Yes, you silly historian.

[nevergiveup]

108. Of course, and with much enthusiasm.

[muffin1]

110. As things stand now, no.

Let's see what happens in the next couple of years.

[Whisp]

112. YES!

can't really vote as I am not a u.s. citisen, but I am glad that I cheered for him to win and cried on election night.

he has done a lot of good for the short time he has been in office. The man is a workaholic. and a smart one, to boot.

[old guy]

113. Yes.

[Hutzpa]

115. You damn right

:bounce:

[Whisp]

117. LOL! you ask us to be civil when you make it sound like Obama has done only two things. LOL. yah,

no name calling and insults please.


:rofl:

[ismnotwasm]

118. Yup

I spent a lot of time not voting or voting not third but probably fifth or sixth party. My perfect world would be a more cooperative, socialistic one. In 2000, when that motherfucker bush actually was taken seriously as a presidential candidate I started voting Democrat. I'm lucky enough to live in a state that has Democratic politicians I can stand, and one or two I even admire.

As far as I'm concerned the political system produces the policies,and politicians we get. I understand there are millions of mild to extreme conservatives who consistently vote against the interests of humanity and are the constituents of a lot of politicians who then argue against the interests of humanity. I understand there are probably even more apathetic, self-claiming 'non-political' people who may or may not bother to vote. I never expected President Obama to be able to constantly challenge a deeply entrenched status quo--all those straight white males in power for a couple of centuries now-- without gathering a lot more political resources. Still, he occasionally reminds me of Bill Clinton at his best (who I also didn't vote for, either time) challenging repukes with their own agendas, pre-empting them as it were.

I don't want to see another bush, ever. He wasn't the "lesser of two evils" he was evil personified and was a result of apathy and media manipulation and outright crime. If he was sitting in prison right now, I might feel differently. That's not going to happen.

[Hekate]

119. In a heartbeat.

[DevonRex]

120. Of course. nt

[Cleita]

121. Yes, if the other candidate is a Republican and it will be.

All the above you are griping about would be doubly worse under another Republican administration. For sure I'd vote for Obama. I think he is lessening the abuses of the last administration if not ending them outright like we would like. However, I would like to see where we are at the end of 2011 before I pass judgement on your list.

[lumberjack_jeff]

126. No, I'd vote for Superman. No, Mother Theresa. No, wait... Yoda.

Unless you're suggesting that this political system allows you to vote for anyone, then it's always about relative merit.

I'd vote for Obama over any Republican or independent.

I'd vote (again) for several democrats over Obama.

[one_voice]

127. Damn right I would...

Do I agree with everything he's done...No...Do I like everything he's done..No. But if I waited for someone that would do everything I wanted, I'd never vote.

He was given a f'd up situation to deal with, and he's trying to right some wrongs. I wish the health care bill included a PO or was single payer, that being said I think he's set the ground work for that to come sooner than we think. I think we'll see DADT repealed, sooner rather than later.

The good I see, far out weighs any disagreements I may have.

Edited to say: I'll campaign for him in 2012, and for the Dem's this year. I'll be damned if I'm going to see the likes of Palin and that crowd take over. And don't kid yourself they're the fuckers that side is going to try and push into office. I don't know about you but if I wanted to live under the likes of those people I'd move to Iran, Saudi Arabia etc.

[branders seine]

129. DUers are not allowed to say they would vote against a Democrat,

are they?

In a hypothetical Democratic primary in 2012, I would vote for any liberal Democrat who opposed Obama. I always vote for liberals over conservatives. If said hypothetical opponent was pro-worker, so much the better. I always vote for a pro-worker candidate over a pro-corporate candidate.

I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER--**NEVER!!**--vote for a rapublican.

[mzteris]

149. but they say they will NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA!

quite frequently.

Even if it means they're "sitting at home and NOT VOTING! hmmph/flounce.

Not voting for a Democrat is tacitly endorsing the Republican - for every vote one doesn't make for a Democrat is one fewer vote the Republicans have to "beat".


edit: double use of adverb. bad bad bad. I typed badly. :D

[NaturalHigh]

235. Honest question:

Are you saying that we are all obligated to not only vote but vote for the Democrat? Personally, I prefer to vote for people over party.

[mzteris]

250. If I could, I would eradicarte "parties" -

or make more that were actually viable.

I am for the PERSON over the party. I also realize that no one person is going to do everything I want, how, when, where, why, or as quickly as I want. I understand that looking at the VERY BIG PICTURE - from a point of view and with information that few of us even dream about, changes a whole damn lot of decisions. You can't just "pick" you favorites, because not only may some other things actually BE a "higher priority" due to the BIG PICTURE, but this isn't a dictatorship. Just cause you WANT to do something, doesn't mean it can get done with a click of the fingers if done at all.

Overall I support most of what he's done. Not all. But I do trust the man enough that I think he's doing what can be done as quickly and as well as can be done. I don't believe he's a "corporate sellout". I don't believe he really wants to destroy education so all the children can be slaves of industry. I don't believe he LIED about what he believes in and wants to do. I think the reality of BEING President is far different than anyone CAMPAIGNING for President can imagine.


Several years ago, in NC - I voted for a Republican for NC Supreme Court. I knew him pretty well and he was a very honest and fair man who cared about people and always tried to do the right thing for others.


as far as what I was saying - I'm saying you're obligated to VOTE or basically - er - shut the hell up - about what's being done by the person in office. You're either part of the solution or part of the problem.

AND - to "not vote" because your "pet issue" - regardless of how wonderful, important, vital, etc. . . is so completely short-sighted. To use the argument, if you "don't vote for Obama" because you didn't like how he did "this thing" (or even these several things) and you ALLOW some completely drooling IDIOT in the WH - (pick any one of the Republican 'candidates' being considered now) - THAT is completely and totally cutting your nose off to spite your face.

[NaturalHigh]

256. Thank you for your answer.

I don't agree with all of it, but I respect your POV.

As i mentioned in another thread, I will not vote for Obama in 2012, but my vote will make no difference here in Oklahoma anyway. This was officially the reddest state in the nation in 2008.

[branders seine]

274. I vote for agendas and principle.

Fuck people. They're all just tribal, narcissistic monkeys unless they stand for something.

[branders seine]

273. I think voting is a scam,

but I do it anyway, just in case I'm wrong.

As for Obama, if there is anyone runnign who is more liberal (which would be anyone from about 85% of all Americans), I'll vote for them instead. The Barackster is a corporatist who hates workers.

[Ikonoklast]

130. Yes.

Without hesitation.

[divvy]

131. YES

[itsrobert]

132. Unreccing. You didn't specify "for what office".

unrec.

[Iggo]

154. Didn't specify whether it's in the Primary or the General, either.

U2.

[mzteris]

136. son was discussing in the school

the "two choice" system we have (yeah you have some "independents" but let's be real, there is no viable movement at this point. (I wish there were, I wish there were MULTIPLE parties - or NO - party, actually)

One of the discussions they had was the "not voting" option. By "not voting" you accomplish nothing but letting other people make your choice for you. Even if it's a "losing vote" for you, you've at least participated in the process so you have some say. Without participating, then you don't have any say as to the results you helped to produce.

There was more, but he had to go - I'll try and get the rest of the discussion and put up some it; I can't remember all of the arguments and some of them were quite -um - interesting. (I love smart quirky kids who are impassioned about everything!!)

[tammywammy]

138. Yes n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

140. No. nt

[HughMoran]

141. Of course

no spin on your part will change that.

[Rabrrrrrr]

142. Absolutely, unless someone better was running.

But, all things being equal, yes I'd vote for him again. Gladly and eagerly.

[footinmouth]

145. You Betcha!

The hopey/changy thingy is working out just fine for me.

[sallyseven]

147. I love Obama

I will vote for him twice next time

[Kahuna]

148. Amen. I'm already hoping we can get him in for a THIRD term..

or President for life, even! :patriot:

[rury]

151. HELL TO THE YES!!!!

OBAMA 2012!!!!

[Zhade]

152. Nope.

NT!

[handmade34]

153. certainly

[agentS]

155. It's far too early to tell.

He has made a lot of progress, even on Iraq and Afghanistan. Gitmo is shedding prisoners at a consistent rate (while not closed yet, I doubt they're adding prisoners over there). Goldman Sachs is about to get prosecuted (with all those former staff members of Goldman in the admin, it might be time they turned "state's evidence").

The 3 key parts so far is that he's not taking the bait on Iran (no war plans and certainly not allowing Israel a pre-emptive strike), the econ has begun to stabilize (no W rebound?) and climate change is finally being addressed.

He's not perfect, but I was not expecting perfect.

[CBR]

156. Happily. YES!!!! nt

[BlueIris]

157. No.

And I'm reasonably certain that won't be an option in 2012.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

172. You don't think Obama is running for office in 2012? Really?

I'll take that bet.

[BlueIris]

173. I'm sure we'll both remember these posts. nt

[SemiCharmedQuark]

175. Every president since the Great Depression except Johnson has run for reelection.

Your claim is pretty out there and therefore, I think it probably will stick out in my memory. Now, whether he'd win, either primary or general, is a completely different question.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

222. That one is perpetually bitter.

Not just about Obama, but life in general.

[G_j]

158. it is impossible to seperate from the "lesser of two evils" scenario.

without that consideration, I would prefer someone else, such as Kucinich.

[boomerbust]

159. aye

[4 t 4]

171. so I'll add my 2 cents

I felt like I didn't care at all about 3 months ago and I would Never Ever vote again and who cares who is in power (dems or pukes)because none of them really do anything to right the wrongs but something happened and I thought WTF just go and vote for dems across the ticket and that is what I think I will do. I mean why not? But this time I won't expect anything from any of them and that way I won't be disappointed but at least I will maybe help our cause a little. In my mind our cause is to treat everyone like you'd like to be treated. Don't judge others because; before the grace of god go I. even though I'm agnostic I get that. That pathetic label of "pro choice" and the people who don't agree with that have dubbed others "BABY KILLERS" or "MURDERS" or "PA GENS" and I think they would do better to remember what comes around goes around-no? Republicans need to be put down.

[NaturalHigh]

160. No. I have no intention of voting for him in 2012.

Since I assume he will have no meaningful opposition in the primary, I will likely be sitting out the election or voting third party. Of course, I live in Oklahoma, so my vote will have no effect anyway.

[onenote]

162. without hesitation

[Shaffer1907]

168. Of course

I'll vote for Obama again. I can't think of any Democrat who will run against him and I can't think of any Republican who can beat him. He will be a shoo-in. "YES WE CAN"

[underpants]

163. Yes- he is doing a fine job

[robertpaulsen]

164. Nice post and run. Is this the Obama you voted for?

http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/10/18/the-idea-of-obama-by-tom-tomorrow/

[4 t 4]

177. No it isn't

I am as fed up as you but at the same time I had some kind of re-awaking I don't expect you to understand because if you had asked me a couple of two to four months ago I would have said "who gives a fuck cause it doesn't matter anymore" and like I said this time I will expect Nothing but why give ANYTHING to those fucking republicans I mean Anything? I guess it's come down to I'd rather be (insert your own metaphor0 than give those fucking republicans an inch

[robertpaulsen]

198. In the primaries, I'm an idealist. In the general election, I'm a pragmatist.

I think we're in agreement. Can you imagine who would be taking Justice Stevens place if McCain had won? Would anyone outside of a small circle of friends know the name Sonia Sotomayor? Fucking A don't give the Rethugs an inch. I never thought Candidate Obama was Kucinich-in-centrist's-clothing, but I don't buy into the argument that President Obama is no different than a President McCain would have been.

[Radical Activist]

284. That cartoon is so condescending.

Sometimes there's a reason for the "liberal elitist" label. I notice that the people going on about how everyone should be disillusioned with the "real" Obama are usually the same people who said Obama wasn't progressive enough during the campaign too. They seem to think its the easily fooled, duped public who need to learn a lesson. But I think most Obama supporters were much more realistic and intelligent about their expectations on election day than Tom Tomorrow and others give them credit for.

Obama spent the entire campaign saying that change wouldn't be easy, that it wouldn't come from him, and that it will take effort by the people. It's obvious that many in the chorus of cynics weren't listening. I think there are better ways to move Obama left than telling people they're idiots and should give up because they were betrayed.

[Liberal_in_LA]

166. yes

[ejpoeta]

167. yes.

[theophilus]

169. YEESSS!

He will, in the end, amaze....even you. IMO

[ncteechur]

170. yep

[gblady]

174. absolutely......

totally, positively YES!

[Flying Dream Blues]

178. Yes. nt

[RFKHumphreyObama]

179. I'm not even going to take this question seriously

You start the thread off by inserting your own biases and prejudices into the preface before asking the question (and if you can't tell the difference between Obama and * then I absolutely don't know where to start with you). Furthermore your opening statement contains a whole load of mistruths and distortions about President Obama's record presumably in the hope of misleading enough people who will then be influenced to respond in the way you want to your question

If you really think that not voting for President Obama in 2012 is going to get you where you want, you are no worse than the people who sat out the 2000 presidential election because 'there is no difference between Bush and Gore'. Or those who sat out the 1980 election because 'Carter is such a bad President/right wing hack'. Those voters allowed Raygun and * to come in and absolutely trash America and the world. If you are quite happy to allow another Raygun or * to come into power and do the same thing, then don't vote for Obama in 2012 and I can assure you that all of us will hold you personally responsible for every misdeed that the new Republican President makes.

<The only thing i ask is to please let us have a polite discourse and lets not fall into insulting and name calling mode>

This being said after you had no trouble insulting and name-calling against President Obama? If you want to set a tone for polite and civil discourse, you would be well-advised to set the tone in your opening post

[Crystal Clarity]

180. Yes I would.

I'm satisfied with most everything he's done thus far.

[tallahasseedem]

181. You bet your ass...

and will be helping GOTV, we'll need another comfortable margin.

I'm dumbfounded by those who proclaim that they'll be sitting out the next election. Sitting out = President Palin, plain and simple.

[4 t 4]

182. I love President Obama but

I understand people who feel upset. I think he has done good work but what about something as simple as re instating the tax code on the top 2-3 % Not raising it just rolling it back or re instating it. That should have been done like his second day in office. The tax code has been lowered for the top from 70% to 28% and really more like 24% and when you get done with all the bullshit it's more like 14%. For all the other people in the United States of tiny incomes it has done nothing but go up for the last 3 decades.

[complain jane]

183. I would not have voted for McCain/Palin.

That's for sure. So yes, I would vote for him again.

[unkachuck]

184. nope....

....Obama's been a big disappointment to me....right now, I'm supporting Oregones' SitAtHome/Masturbate ticket....

[KonaKane]

189. Yeah that's really going to help.

Good luck with that.

[erebusman]

186. better question: knowing what you know now who...

would you have backed for president in the primaries?

For me Kucinich is the answer. I was torn between him and Edwards until it was too late. Now I know the only person who comes even close to being the human being I want to represent me is Dennis.

[mecherosegarden]

188. Yes, N/T

[saltpoint]

190. You're goddam right I would.

[FrenchieCat]

191. Yes.

And those who don't think he'll be running in 2012, if that's the case, then y'all can holler a great big hello to the Repuke that will be elected, and will commence to tear up any and all advances made (see Virginia for your nightmare preview)....cause after all of the feet deep in Obama's ass at his every move, and the denigration that he has had to endure for the sake of folks' political idealistic vanity, know that many minorities and youth will stay their asses home if Obama's not on the ticket. Micromanaging the Presidency is a bad idea, cause no one is perfect....and to those folks who actually believe that congress is not a factor in what laws passes, and think that one President can change all in just a few months after years of rot, you've gotten it twisted.

[caty]

192. Straight Democratic ticket

every time.

[Corey_Baker08]

193. Yes & All Democratic Candidates For That Matter!

[Ralphie40]

194. the Healthcare thing isn't sounding too good either

Maybe you guys can help me out, but I thought it was going to lower costs and then I read in AP today that it is actually going to raise costs.

[Dawgs]

201. You're correct. I think he's doing a fair job, but at least the 'trigger' should have been included

:hi:

[begin_within]

195. No I will not.

For the reasons you cited and for the general reason he has shown his true mission already: to further entrench the moneyed elite as the ruling class in America. So to hell with him and all those who align with him. It's time for real reform, not his brand of pseudo-reform.

[Dawgs]

203. Did you vote for him the first time?

None of those things listed by the OP are different from what he promised.

Remember, he's not king.

[begin_within]

207. Yes I did, but now I know better.

[Dawgs]

220. Then what's your plan?

Vote for someone else that can't do those things either?

[begin_within]

221. No, vote for someone who can and will.

[Dawgs]

225. How? By eliminating the Congress and the other party.

Again, no President is King.

[mzteris]

251. I think people don't get how the system works. . . n/t

[CakeGrrl]

232. What, do you have a crystal ball or something?

How do you ever know who WILL do something until they get in there? Did you ever see a politician run and say they would NOT do something?

???

[Dawgs]

219. ---

[divvy]

237. Did you bump your head?

There is a difference between the way the world really is and the way that we wish it to be. Childish idealism is fine up to a point. It gives us direction to work in and nothing more. In the end, change comes in steps. Sometimes large, and other times small.

If you ram your beliefs down everyone elses throat, then wouldn't we have a dictatorship?

[gov for sale]

196. Yes, but w/o $'s or time due in part to Vilsack/Monsanto and off-shore BS

After supporting the campaign I was profoundly disappointed... left wondering WTF. :shrug:

[yellowwood]

197. In a Flash!

Think about it. Isn't it great to have a smart President who keeps cool and professional?

I know. He hasn't fulfilled all the wishes on my agenda. But I'm not the boss of the world, and he is. He looks at leadership from a different perspective from the rest of us. He's having to mop up the mess left from the previous Administration. We have to leave him some leeway in how he does it.

Where would we be now if McCain had won the election? Probably at war with Iran. Certainly he would not have the respect from the rest of the world that Obama has.

[Bryn]

199. Yes! I want him for 8 years!

:hi:

[Dawgs]

200. Huh?

He said he was going to end the Iraq war in a responsible manner - like he's doing.
He said he was going to continue the war in Afghanistan.
He's been trying to close Guantanamo.
The economy IS getting better (jobs, repaid bailouts with interest, stock market, etc..)
Bailouts, like it or not, prevented a great depression.

He has made his mistakes, including what he left out of the health care bill, but he is pretty much accomplishing what he promised.

So, tell me why any of us wouldn't vote for him again?

[CANDO]

202. Yes

If Howard Dean were to challenge from the left, so goes my vote. Just sayin'.

[shotten99]

204. No, will vote 3rd party and then bitch when Jeb is prez.

[redqueen]

217. lol

[proud2BlibKansan]

205. No

[salguine]

208. Hell no. I'd never vote for a Republican, so I'll probably end up writing in someone.

[Warren DeMontague]

212. I'm not voting "Yes"

I'm voting "FUCK Yes. Duh."

[Highway61]

215. A big yes from me

n/t

[Richard Steele]

216. At this point, it seems unlikely. How sad is that? nm

[Forkboy]

218. Can't answer the way you want us to.

Because there's no way to NOT factor in who he might be against, and that would make all the difference to me. His own merits have me leaning in both directions, both yes and no, so his opposition would be the deciding factor for me. If there's someone out there I feel is better they'd get my vote. If there's someone out there I feel is worse, Obama gets my vote again.

And this also depends on if we're talking a primary or a General election. In a primary I'd most likely vote for someone else, but in a General it would be between him and a Repub, and those ratfucks will never get a vote of mine.

[ieoeja]

223. Hmmm, let me think about that a minute ...

YES! Yes, I would!

[NeedleCast]

224. Yes, I will vote for him again

[joeybee12]

226. Again?

That assumes a lot.

[Cant trust em]

227. Yes I would! Yes I would! nt

[divvy]

229. HELL YES ! TWICE IF I COULD

[bigwillq]

233. You actually can

2012 DEM primary and 2012 General Election.

[renate]

230. yes, absolutely

He hasn't been my dream president, but that's mostly because he's a pragmatist who has to deal with a congress that's not my dream congress and an electorate who most definitely isn't my dream electorate. Given the political climate he has to work within, he is doing an excellent job, IMHO.

[LWolf]

231. Not as long as there's a better candidate on the ticket. nt

[GirlAfire]

291. This. n/t

[RandomThoughts]

236. I would more then vote for him.

I would fight to get him elected.

I would not have supported him then if I did not think he is right for the job now.

He has a tough job, and I disagree with many things, but I still think he is the right choice for President.

[divvy]

238. HELL YES! I would vote for him again tomorrow if I could.

[gleaner]

239. No I will never vote for him again. He is a spoiler n/t

[DailyGrind51]

240. Yes, unless Grayson decides to run.

[cynatnite]

241. Go ahead, don't vote for him...the repukes will thank you for it. n/t

[B Calm]

242. YES. . . Even though he's a black man from Kenya Africa, a Muslim,

Communist, Socialist, Fascist, Nazi, Liberal, non US citizen, who pals around with terrorists and is going to pull the plug on my grandma. Did I tell you he's a black man?

[mzteris]

253. you forgot

he wants to completely destroy public education 'cause he hates children. Especially those inner city ones.






Just in case: :sarcasm:

[B Calm]

276. I also forgot he's the Anti Christ too. . . Did I tell you he is a Black Man?

Regardless how much they smear him with their stupid lies, I'd vote for him again! Just to PISS THEM OFF!!!

[PAMod]

243. yes

[Pushed To The Left]

244. Yes. An Obama victory in 2012 will be even sweeter than in 2008 because I know how hard the RW and

teabaggers will work to try to destroy his presidency. That being said, I do wish he would be more progressive on some issues.

[graywarrior]

245. Yes

[mikeSchmuckabee]

246. I voted Gloria La Riva, so 2012 will be the first time for me.

[quaker bill]

247. Yes

The war in Iraq will be over before the election. Gitmo remains open in name, but the torture going on there and elsewhere has ended. The economy is recovering and no matter how much you may dislike the Bush bailout, it worked. Healthcare passed, finanical reform will pass. Financial criminals are being prosecuted, and there will be alot more of this (there is nothing but political upside to these prosecutions).

Charging Bush and Cheney, while desirable in one sense, would only devolve into a circus that would consume our entire agenda. Everyone who would be convinced of their guilt, already is, so there is little upside and almost all downside politically.

I will vote, work, and donate for the re-election of this President, without hesitation.

[messiah]

248. I wouldn't vote for anyone, the system is rigged

Years ago I said the left was dead but after seeing the reponses in this thread I would say that this country is dead.
The deliberate move to the right side of politics by politicians has not even been that sneaky.
I have give people behind this social engineering experiment a hand becuase they've made almost everyone, left or right walk lockstep into the flames. :rofl:

[Radical Activist]

280. Maybe promoting cynicism is the social engineering experiment.

Some are thrilled when those on the left drop out and make themselves irrelevant after accepting a steady stream of unrealistically negative, cynical assumptions.

[WeDidIt]

252. I am more fired up to vote for Obama in 2012 than I was in 2008

and I made my first donation to his 2008 campaign on the morning of February 10, 2007.

I believe he will go down in history as one of our greatest presidents.

[fishwax]

254. given the same or similar circumstances and choices, absolutely

[libodem]

255. Yes, I would

but....I also remember the primaries and how strange I felt about not feeling like Hillary was the one. I could not 'see' her in office but more than that I could not stand to think of her being abused as Obama is now. I also had a bad feeling that Obama was on his way to being abused in office and it filled me with empathy for what he'd be blamed because of train wreck he'd been left.

Honestly I did not think it was a particularly a good time to run a black person or a woman. We are still a patriarchal society and the white male is still the power symbol. (I know get the lynch mob-you want to kill me now) I truely wonder sometimes how much elections are manipulated and calculated by the very super rich for some clandestine 'real' purpose.

[saulmart]

257. FUCK YEAH!

I not only WOULD, I WILL!

[Cobalt-60]

258. Absolutely.F*cking.Yes

Consider the fossilized goose stepper and the winking Nazi dimbo at his side.
The absence of my vote might return the White House to fascists.
I couldn't live with that.

[Hawkowl]

259. Hell no.

Not in the primary and not in the general election. I'd cut my arm off with a plastic spork before I voted rethuglican, but unless the leopard can change his spots, he won't be getting my vote again.

From now on, I am voting hard core principles. If every liberal/leftist did this, the country and world would be an unrecognizably better place.

Stick the lesser of two evils and fear the rethuglican bogeyman strategy up the DLC's corporate arse!

[Balbus]

260. Not a chance.

[Taitertots]

261. Who is running against him?

Is someone running that isn't whore for corporations and the wealthy elite?

[Jack Rabbit]

262. Yes

While I am disappointed about several things, and believe some of his accomplishment could have been stronger and better, I am generally pleased with the direction he is taking the country and the world.

The President's international initiative to stop nuclear proliferation stands in stark contrast to the dangerous and foolish neoconservative approach, which was an abject failure on all fronts. In a 2012 race between Obama and an unapologetic loyal Bushie, that, by itself, would be reason enough to vote for Obama again.

[Skidmore]

263. In a heartbeat.

[StopTheNeoCons]

264. YES x 1bil

[quiller4]

265. In a heartbeat. There isn't a top-tier Democratic candidate that I

would rather support. For that matter, there isn't even a second or third tier Democratic alternative that I would prefer.

I never have advocated appointing a special prosecutor or charging Bush or Cheney. Still don't and would hate to see Obama or any other D go down that road.

As somebody who has seen a nephew deploy to Afghanistan twice, I support the changes Obama has implemented with regard for Afpak conflict. Finally, as a 58 year old with two chronic health conditions and the sister of a breast cancer survivor, I appreciate the health care bill and the peace of mind it gives us and our spouses.

I'm not sure that there has been a better president in my lifetime and I go back to the Truman years.

[AnArmyVeteran]

266. YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES I will! NO republican should EVER be president again..

Republican presidents always sell out to big business and do everything they can to screw the hard working little guy. I find it unbelievable how anyone could vote for any republican candidate for president. Conservatives mindlessly vote for republicans not even realizing they are supporting people who seek to do them harm. How can conservatives be so damned gullible?

[woofless]

267. Yup.

[Initech]

269. And vote for McCain? I wouldn't think twice!!!

[11 Bravo]

270. In a heartbeat.

[Kalun D]

271. Hell NO

On a matter of principle. He's done the exact opposite of almost all of his campaign promises. He's nothing but a corporate tool, all of his actions have gone against the working class.

a double dealing Dem is almost worse than a repug because with a repug you know what you're getting. But with a phony (corporate) dem you let your guard down because you don't expect him to be right wing.

If the example of 2008 is all we get for our prez choices then the system is broken and the populace is too dumbed down to even be aware of it.

[redwitch]

272. YES. nt

[MattBaggins]

275. Depends on whether or not he dumps Duncan.

[mzteris]

281. yeah cause they hate children and want

to make them all serfs of industry so billionaires can make more money.

It's ALL A COMMUNIST PLOT TO DESTROY EDUCATION AND AMERICA!!!

oh nooooooooooooooooeeeessssssssssssssssssss.................

[MilesColtrane]

277. Hell to the Yeah

And since elections don't happen in a vacuum, when I weigh the consequences of whatever Republican opponent he's running against getting into office, I'll want to vote for Obama even more.

[B Calm]

279. I'd vote for him just to PISS OFF THE REPUBLICANS!

[Radical Activist]

282. Of course. Your description of his actions is deceptively selective.

It was Congress that blocked closing Guantanamo after Obama proposed. I can't blame Obama for that.
Obama already did more to promote clean energy than any President in history. And he's pushing to do more.
He introduced stronger banking regulation, introduced more oversight to stimulus spending, and is getting the money back.
He included provisions in the health care bill that will lead to more reform and improvements down the road.
He's pulling troops out of Iraq.

Its fashionable to show ones hard core progressiveness by finding reasons to bash Obama, but he's moving the country in the right direction. We can push him left without stretching the truth and promoting counterproductive cynicism.

[Sparkly]

283. In the general election, against McCain? Hell YES!!

No question.

[stanwyck]

285. Hell to the Yes. n/t

[GSanon]

286. To put it simple...

I Don't Kn... uh, maybe.

[WilliamPitt]

287. (facepalm)

[donheld]

288. YES

[Motown_Johnny]

289. yes

[shraby]

290. You betcha.