I'm going to Arizona so I can tell a cop to fuck himself.

[Redstone]

Those racist Arizonan assholes are going to tell me I have to carry my passport or birth certificate IN AN AMERICAN STATE?

That any pissant local cop can demand that I prove my American citizenship?

Kiss my ass, Arizona.

Redstone

[taterguy]

1. I predict an ass kicking in your future

Unless you're just making shit up

[Fla_Democrat]

23. Don't have to be Jeane Dixon

to see this one happening. :evilgrin:

[PabloFanques]

85. if all of us liberals move to Arizona

we can overpopulate the right wingers and call it our own.

[Fla_Democrat]

90. Hmmm

Eastern diamond backs vs Western diamond backs
Wolf spiders vs Tarantulas
Coeds in bikinis vs bleached skulls in deserts

Na, I'll stay here and fight the good fight locally. :smoke:

[Old Troop]

105. Is she still alive?

[izquierdista]

27. I predict $$$ in your future

Remember, the more they beat on you, the larger your settlement can be.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6560860

And then there was that story from last week of the guy in Kansas City who won a $10,000 judgment (plus the cops have to "train" their officers to take verbal abuse).

[Redstone]

32. I don't "make shit up."

Redstone

[taterguy]

80. When do you leave?

[Redstone]

81. Already left.

Redstone

[Obamanaut]

95. Are you there yet? Have you talked with the cop yet? nt

[taterguy]

111. How's it going?

[tabasco]

2. You should tell it to a politician.

The cops don't pass laws.

It's the cowardly politicians.

The police should refuse to enforce the new law.

[sabrina 1]

100. Maybe the cops didn't pass the laws, but they sure

seem to agree with them. From the ones I met in Az, many of them would pass them if they could. If cops are living in a racist state that requires them to abuse their own fellow Americans, they should quit. Sick of the excuses we make for why people have to go to war and kill people who were never their enemies, and for cops who are all too delighted to do whatever they are told or feel like in some cases.

This is why we are where we are. Americans in general are like bad parents who will try to excuse every bad behavior their children engage in. And then, when they turn into adults and commit crimes, they wonder 'what happened, wasn't he always a good boy'? No, they were bad parents.

Cops can quit. No one is being forced to enforce this totally un-Congstitutional and therefor un-American law.

[stray cat]

3. Tell it to the ones making the laws - it wasn't a cop who passed it

or are you going to practice racial profiling and pick a white cop?

[Redstone]

35. Yes.

Redstone

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. My dear Redstone!

Hey, baby!

If you come out that far, keep going and visit beautiful SoCal!

I hear you about Arizona. ICK.

I don't recommend you tell any cop to fuck him (or her) self.

Might not be good for your health!

:evilgrin:

:hug:

[Union Yes]

84. ***Please Redstone, please take Peggy's advice!*****

I understand your anger RS. Please don't get your self hurt.

[Initech]

5. I should have driven to Santa Ana last night and joined the anti-Sherriff Joe protest.

[mdmc]

6. what does the new law require?

If you look foreign you need to be able to document that you are here legally?

[mwooldri]

96. Basically that is what it boils down to.

I'd probably get away with things, being blue eyed and blonde, and very fair skinned... but since I am a Permanent Resident, I *am* required to have my card on me at all times. Though NCDMV have record of my Resident card on their files too... so any law enforcement officer can verify me if I don't have my card.

If you look Hispanic, and the law enforcement officer has a grudge against you, they could arrest you and cart you off to jail until you or they can prove your citizenship. Even worse if you can only speak Spanish, do have a Permanent Resident card and don't have it on you... they can have you up before the beak just for not having your perm resident card on you, and you'd have a misdemeanour on your criminal record. Making naturalisation harder. And a fine. And that same cop out looking for you.

If you're a citizen, the worst thing is the detention in jail until proof can be obtained - voter registration, DMV records, Public Records, etc are obtained by someone on the outside on your behalf.

[Bluebear]

7. Why take it out on a cop? S/he didn't make this law.

[Xipe Totec]

11. How else are you going to call the law into question?

To challenge the law you have to be a plaintiff.

And it's the cop that will make you a plaintiff.

I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.

If the cops don't like it, they can find a job in a less fascist state.

[Bluebear]

12. Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police statement against the bill. You're off base.

http://www.leei.us/main/media/AACOP_STATEMENT_ON_SENATE_BILL_1070.pdf

'If the cops don't like it, they can find a job in a less fascist state.' - yeah, that's easy advice.

[Xipe Totec]

14. What's your advice, move out of the state?

How is that any easier?

[Bluebear]

16. Certainly not to yell profanities at somebody who had nothing to do with its passage.

Then telling them to quit their job.

[Xipe Totec]

18. Point out the profanity, please

or is standing up for your rights a profanity in your book?

[Bluebear]

19. The OP said he was going to tell a cop to fuck himself, is that unclear?

What the fuck is your problem? Go after the enemy, not people who agree with you.

[Xipe Totec]

21. First, I did not use profanity

So reply to the OP on that subject.

Second, do not use profanity on me while complaining of profanity. It undermines whatever point you wanted to make.

[Bluebear]

22. You're not thinking clearly on this so ciao for now.

I DID respond to the OP.

You replied to me, defending the OP.

Then you asked where was the profanity in the OP.

Then I pointed it out and you told me to respond to the OP.

See step one.

And come back when you calm down.

[Xipe Totec]

25. Perhaps you are right

This is very personal for me, so I apologize to you.

Personally.

I do think the cops are complicit on this, and I'm not willing to give them a free pass just because they are cops.

All you have to do is google the Sheriff of Maricopa county, Az.

I'm not against cops in general, but Az cops are special.

Short bus special.

[Bluebear]

26. It's personal for me too because I stand in solidarity with you.

I am very familiar with Arpaio and he is evil.

And NOW is the time for immigration reform and paths to citizenship.

Peace :hug:

[Xipe Totec]

30. Thanks!

your support means a lot to me.

FWIW, if Redstone gets in a jam in AZ, I'll donate to his legal defense fund.

Even if he does cuss out a cop (which, from what I understand, is not illegal).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8164080

:evilgrin:

[treestar]

55. It's a way to get arrested that does not really harm anyone

cops are generally tough and their feelings don't get hurt by this type of thing.

[MissDeeds]

33. I agree

I may be going out on a limb here, but I'll bet some of the cops in AZ are Hispanics. The cops aren't the ones who came up with this law. Many of them may be as opposed to it as we are. Let's put blame and anger where it belongs.

[DesertFlower]

43. you're right. many are hispanics.

[Xipe Totec]

44. That does not change the situation

Whether the cops are Hispanic or no, does not make the law any less unconstitutional.

And to challenge the law, you must be damaged by the law.

Otherwise, you have no standing in court.

We cannot challenge a law as racist, and use race as a reason to not challenge it.

[Xipe Totec]

8. +1

:applause:

[w8liftinglady]

9. from what I understand,law enforcement is AGAINST this bill

http://www.seiu.org/mt/mt-search.cgi?blog_id=1&tag=arizona%20legislature&limit=20
Now,if you want to tell the governor to go f%%k herslf,be my guest

[Turbineguy]

10. This may help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

[Xipe Totec]

13. This may help educate you on the subject

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x458296

[Turbineguy]

17. I grew up on stories

of the Nazi occupation of Europe.

[Xipe Totec]

20. My father was chased out of Arizona

Back to Mexico.

Where he lived as a US citizen in Exile.

Cry me a river.

[Obamanaut]

15. Looks good on the screen, but I don't think so. nt

[havocmom]

24. Going in with the attitude of taking it out on some cop would make you part of the problem

I can't believe you really want to be part of that problem.

Sadly, there will be some beat cops just itching for fights on this. Give it to them and you may not have enough of your brain left to call a lawyer. Most law enforcement there is opposed to the bill, now law, as mentioned above. Giving the jerks reason to bust heads is not a means toward a solution, but just the escalation they are looking for.

And there are some cops who would bust your head. Your lawyer won't scare them a bit. Any idea how long it takes to find a body in the desert? Sometimes it takes a very long time. The bad guys probably know all the good places to hide one too. Hikers come across people scraps every so often. Don't be one of the scraps.

[TK421]

28. Don't waste your energy on those fucksticks, Redstone....it would just be a waste of time

don't even venture out there....who wants to go out west, anyways?

[leeroysphitz]

29. Good luck with that, Redstone. n/t

[Confusious]

31. A driver's license is considered proof of citizenship nt

[Redstone]

37. How so? Mrs R isn't a US citizen, but she has a driver's license.

(And a green card, too.)

Redstone

[Confusious]

38. You have to give proof that you are in the country legally

Driver's license counts.

Give me a sec I'll find the cite from the Arizona paper.

I should have bookmarked it.

[Confusious]

40. Here you go

http://www.azdailysun.com/news/local/state-and-regional/c5640fb6-7b1f-5286-be2b-0e38d72b1c9e.html

[Xipe Totec]

52. Here you go as well

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x458296

[Confusious]

59. The law doesn't go into effect until August

Besides, it was immigration that detained him, not the local police.

A representative at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) returned 3TV’s calls after researching the incident and she said this was standard operating procedure.

The agents needed to verify Abdon was in the country legally and it is not uncommon to ask for someone's birth certificate. She also said this has nothing to do with the proposed bill or racial profiling.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Man-says-he-was-racially-targeted-forced-to-provide-birth-certificate-91769419.html

[Xipe Totec]

61. Do you carry a birth certificate with you?

I don't.

Even if I did, it would not prove that I was a US citizen, since I was not born here.

Does that make me less of a US citizen? A second class citizen as it were?

[Confusious]

64. You're still arguing a point which is invalid

which I expected.

"Even if I did, it would not prove that I was a US citizen, since I was not born here.

Does that make me less of a US citizen? A second class citizen as it were?"


It was immigration which detained him. Immigration has a different set of rules.

This law says a driver's license is valid.

Also, I've been stopped by immigration before, driving through New Mexico. My hair is brown, my skin is dark ( during the summer ) and my eyes so brown you can only tell if you shine a light into them. Otherwise they are black.

[jmm]

67. It doesn't say all driver's licenses are valid.

It say an Arizona driver's license is valid or other federal, state or local ID's but only if obtaining them requires the holder to first prove they are here legally. Numerous states give driver's licenses to people who are not here legally.

[Confusious]

72. So does the law take effect in other states

or just Arizona?

[jmm]

74. This law sure isn't going to help the tourist industry.

It's a sad day when people in this country legally have to get a passport or some other form of ID they don't normally carry to travel to another state.

[Confusious]

77. If the federal government would get it's act together

we probably wouldn't have to. This has been going on for a long time. Since Regan.

I'm so-so on the bill. I see some bad, some stuff that won't make a difference, but tired of waiting.

[Xipe Totec]

68. Immigration does not have a different set of rules

The Arizona law is very specific on that point, since it references immigration law.

And you are avoiding the point, which I expected.

The fact that you've been stopped by immigration should have made you more sympathetic, not less.

I'm sorry that you don't see other people's plight as your won.

[Confusious]

76. Did you read the law?

If they are here illegally, stopped by the local police, they get turned over to INS. If you have a valid drivers license, that is proof of citizenship.

And no, I don't see the plight of illegal immigrants as my own. My family came here legally.

I see a need to stop illegal immigration.

Of course, you'll turn that into a thing where I hate all immigrants, which I don't.

If they are here legally, no matter where from, I have no problem.


"And you are avoiding the point, which I expected."

A point needs to be made to be avoided. I just see emotional rantings. Pretty much from everyone here about this thing. No thinking, just ranting.
"NAZI Germany" "Racists!"

[leeroysphitz]

82. Tell that to the Canadian Border Guards. n/t

[Confusious]

101. Don't know if you noticed

But Arizona doesn't border Canada. just FYI.

[mwooldri]

97. Was not so in NC for a good while...

I don't know how the law changed but I got my drivers' license on a green I-94 piece of paper - the Visa Waiver Pilot Program - allowing a number of people to come to the USA for 30-60-90 (sorry cant remember how many) days visa-free.

I was legally in the USA. I was insured to the satisfaction of NC DMV. I had no social security number. I got a license. As a British Citizen. I was just added to my fiancee's insurance, had the paperwork, took the test and passed first time (NC road test - too easy IMHO, at least it was in 1999).

FYI I am still NOT am American Citizen. I *am* a permanent resident, and I still have that drivers' license. Now NC makes it a little easier on me so in the event I do lose my perm resident card (which I am required to carry and show to any law enforcement officer ON DEMAND) law enforcement can check NC DMV records and note that I am a perm resident, what my A number is, and when my present card expires.

[Confusious]

102. You're a legal resident?

Then that qualifies.

I probably should have said "legal resident" instead.

"perm resident card (which I am required to carry and show to any law enforcement officer ON DEMAND)"

My drivers license (which I am required to carry while driving ( in the west, all the time ) and show to any law enforcement officer ON DEMAND)
and if I don't have it, can be hauled off to the station, AT THE OFFICERS DISCRETION, even without this law.

[mwooldri]

104. Yes, legal permanent resident.

I am technically required by the law to have my permanent resident card with me at all times. Whether driving, at home, out in the street, at work, where-ever. As a US citizen, just walking down the street, no vehicles involved, you are not required to carry any ID and if any law enforcement officer stops you for any reason, there is no fine or criminal record if you have absolutely done nothing wrong. As a permanent resident alien, if the law enforcement officer stops you for any reason and you don't have that card, you can be hauled off to jail, have a misdemeanour on your criminal record and a fine - I think it's in the $1000 range.

Fortunately NC law enforcement officers are for the main part great guys (I haven't ran into a bad one yet - plus if I start speaking it brings their guard down a bit - they don't hear many British accents...) - I have been pulled over on a routine drink-drive stop with no license, no picture ID, no permanent resident card, no insurance paperwork, no registration card. Told them who I am, identified myself... it detained me a little longer whilst they checked me out and then told me to have a good evening and drive safely home. Similar thing happened with my wife though - she got pulled over for an apparent out-of-date tag. We had renewed them online but didn't get the new 2011 sticker... guy could have given my wife a ticket... but wife had no license, or any of that, he just ran the plate and saw it was up to date despite the appearance of an expired registration and advised my wife to call the DMV and get a replacement sticker (which we did).

I am fortunate enough to live in a reasonably sane state.

[TankLV]

34. That'll end well...

God speed and good luck.

You'll need it.

Better yet - perhaps you should rethink your intentions?

Keep safe...

[goldcanyonaz]

36. The police and deputies do NOT want to enforce this law.

But, if you want to go and make a fool of yourself by all means do so. We need out of state revenue.

[Redstone]

39. One word for Arizona cops: Nurenburg. "I was just following orders" doesn't

cut it anymore.

Y'all are saying that the cops there don't WANT to enforce this law...so they should refuse to.

Especially given the fact that it's pretty much, well, unconstitutional.

Even a soldier is not bound to obey an illegal order, guys.

Redstone

[Obamanaut]

106. Who is Nurenburg? nt

[DesertFlower]

41. i live in arizona. many of our police

are hispanics.

[Catshrink]

42. It won't take effect until August I think...

Unless a stay is issued before then.

[Xipe Totec]

45. And yet, cops are already acting as if it was in effect

That speaks volumes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x458296

[Motown_Johnny]

46. it isn't the cops fault

[Xipe Totec]

50. What does that have to do with anything?

Unless the law is enforced, or not enforced, there is no issue.

To challenge the law, you're going to have to get a cop involved one way or the other, whether he wants to be involved or not.

That's his job, and it is our duty to challenge them.

[paulsby]

47. here's a "fucking" hint

the cops aren't responsible for the law

heck, many if not most line cops probably oppose it

we don't want to be "la migra"

fwiw, i heard a state that 51% of arizona DEMOCRATS expressed approval for it

[Xipe Totec]

51. Here's a fucking hint

Unless a cop tries to enforce the law, or refuses to enforce the law, you have no standing in court.

Like it or not, a cop is going to be at the center of this issue because that is their job.

They can chose to enforce the law, they can chose to ignore the law.

Either way, a cop is going to end up in court.

And the law is going to be struck down.

[paulsby]

my point is that expressing anger at the COPS over this stupid law is...

well... stupid

they didn't make the law, and based on some readings of it, they don't have much discretion.

fwiw, i have to enforce all kinds of laws i think are stupid. on some, i have discretion. on many others, i don't

the war on drugs and war on domestic violence have resulted in some messed up laws. beyond our control.

[Xipe Totec]

56. To challenge the law you're going to have to confront a cop

like it or not that is a fact.

It does not matter that they made the law or not, that's what will happen before this issue lands in court.

God cops will land in court because they did not enforce it.

Bad cops will land there because they enforced it selectively.

And good legal citizens will land in court because this overbroad state law requires cops to violate their constitutional rights.

[paulsby]

60. you can conscientiously object to the law

w/o telling a cop "to go fuck himself"

unless redstone was just being picturesque in his use of language, of course

[Xipe Totec]

62. Actually, you do have the right to tell the cop to go fuck himself

It's a slippery slope to fascism when we become afraid to stand up to law enforcement.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8164080

[paulsby]

63. i never said you didn't have the right to do it

of COURSE you have the right to do it.

it doesn't mean it's smart to do.

you can walk down the street in a bikini, oiled up and showing your assets.

doesn't mean it's smart to do

and again, in what respect are you telling a cop to go fuck himself?

if you just walk up to a random cop and do it, how is that protesting the immigration law?

he's going to think you are just a moron. as are most people who observe you

if he is investigating, like on a terry stop, and you obstruct his investigation, you can be committing a crime, but merely telling him to fuck off in and of itself is of course perfectly legal.

if he is questioning under terry v. ohio and asks your name, and you tell him to go fuck himself, in most jurisdictions, that is a crime.

not the telling him to go fuck himself, but the refusal to provide name DURING a terry

but if the point is to protest the immigration law, then presumably the admonition to fuck himself would be directed a cop in the process of enforcing same. if you were the target of the investigation and refused to comply (name, etc.) THEN you would be obstructing.

[Xipe Totec]

65. Then it's a choice

We're in agreement.

You can chose to do things differently.

[paulsby]

66. right. i can choose to do the smart thing

and you can choose to insult police officers, because arizona (not the beat cop you are insulting) passed a bad law.

i know which i'd choose/.

[Xipe Totec]

71. We'll see which strategy gets the law struck down first

your 'smart' obsequiousness, or a direct challenge.

[paulsby]

73. yes, i am sure that insulting a beat cop

will result in the law being repealed

(rolls eyes)

[Cid_B]

86. I'll do you one better..

on your way stop by the grocer and curse out the teenager at checkout for the high prices on pop-tarts. The fact that they don't have anything to do with pricing shouldn't stop you and you'll feel better for taking out your impotent rage against the person taking the cash.

Really, its all about what makes you feel good right?

[Webster Green]

48. You might be able to make some good money that way.

Sue the crap out of the fascist pig mutherfuckers, after they violate your constitutional rights.

[-..__...]

49. Be sure to video tape it...

and put it on YouTube, I figure it should be good for a few laughs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je126Nf3ZHs

[Electric Monk]

69. +1

[Mudoria]

91. Quite a few good laughs actually

:rofl:

[proteus_lives]

53. That's idiotic.

Way to waste your time, effort and energy.

:thumbsdown:

[Alexander]

54. Well, considering almost every cop I encountered in AZ was a fascist asshole to begin with...

Lots of luck.

[titoresque]

75. It's the Arpaio training, its prabably a requirement. nt

[lib2DaBone]

57. Be Careful....the cops need very little probable cause to taser you and arrest you..

..as always,, it's your word against theirs.. unless you have a video or cell phone picture. And even then.. you dont stand a chance. The system has unlimited resources and attorneys and prosecutors and judges ..all paid with unlimited tax dollars. They have all the money and all the time in the world.... dedicated to send you to jail.

On the other hand... You will be hung out to dry and left with whatever attorney you can afford. Let's see.. how much attorney can I get for $29.95? Not Much.

You can't beat the American Justice system... even if you win.. you lose. ("don't taser me bro..")

[hunter]

58. We need a t-shirt...

"Undocumented -- Make my day"

[BlueCollar]

93. There's this one...

[Dr. Strange]

70. Oh yeah? Well, I'm going to find a Muslim cop in Arizona and yell, "Fuck Mohammed!"

Let's see you top that.

[Redstone]

78. I cannot top that. Excellent. Thanks for the chuckle.

Redstone

[Dr. Strange]

88. Glad you enjoyed it.

But seriously, don't go yelling at some cop. Yell at a politician, they're the ones responsible. Or carry a sign telling the politicians to go fuck themselves.

But make sure you spell everything correctly, or the teabaggers will think you're with them.

:)

[Forkboy]

79. That will surely show them the error of their ways.

Nothing screams, "This isn't right" to me like some stranger telling me to go fuck myself! That will keep me pondering things for epic amounts of time, perhaps even minutes.

Undirected anger is useless.

[Cid_B]

87. Pssst...

Let me clear this up for you. The purpose here would not to be to change the law. The point is to make the OP feel warm and fuzzy. He can go on feeling like a big man because he told someone to fuck themselves. The fact that they don't have anything to do with enacting or changing the law is immaterial to him.

[Hello_Kitty]

83. Several police associations in AZ opposed it. Don't blame the cops. eom

[Obamanaut]

89. Are you there yet? nt

[Obamanaut]

103. ?

[BlueCollar]

92. Might want to wear one of these

and before anyone goes batshit over the word "gringo"...it is not generally accepted as offensive in nature.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo

"...Gringo is a slang Spanish and Portuguese word used in Spanish-speaking and Portuguese countries, principally in Latin America, to denote foreigners, often from the United States or the United Kingdom. The term can be applied to someone who is actually a foreigner, or it can denote a strong association or assimilation into foreign (particularly US) society and culture. The term is often encountered by people from the US traveling abroad to Spanish-speaking countries. The American Heritage Dictionary classifies gringo as "offensive slang," "usually disparaging," and "often disparaging."<1> However, the term can also be used to simply identify a foreigner and does not always carry a negative connotation.

The word was used in Spain long before it crossed the Atlantic to denote foreign, non-native speakers of Spanish.<2> Although it has various anecdotal etymologies, and various connotative or interpretive meanings, its ultimate source appears to be "griego", the Spanish word for "a Greek person" that serves as a colloquial shorthand for any foreign (non-Spanish) person..."

[DailyGrind51]

94. Cops didn't want this anymore than you did!

Cops fear that immigrants who witness crimes will not come forward, like what happened in the Kitty Genovese murder in New York, decades ago, when some of the witnesses were Eastern Europeans with expired visas who feared getting deported.

[BlooInBloo]

98. That's about the only conceivable reason I could possibly go to a Jim Crow state.

[NYMountaineer]

99. Sure...

Yeah, because cops make laws, as opposed to legislatures. And they also have a choice as to whether or not they want to enforce those laws, based upon whether or not they think they're fair.

:sarcasm:

This plan of yours is almost Free Republic dumb.

[Mother Smuckers]

107. Will you be driving? It's about 2000 miles.

:rofl:

[Obamanaut]

108. Kick for a travel update. nt

[ecstatic]

109. Keep a cam on you nt

[yellowcanine]

110. Leave the Arizona cops alone. This wasn't their idea.