Mother of 12/15 children says "Someone needs to pay", "Nobody's helping me." "Somebody owes her".

[-..__...]

And here I thought the Duggers were being irresponsible, but to their credit (unlike this woman), at least the Duggers are taking it upon themselves and the charity of others to manage rather than demanding that the government needs to be held accountable for Miss/Mrs Adams situation...

Mother, 12 children leave motel for new home

TAMPA - The din of room 168 at the Economy Inn on East Busch Boulevard occasionally drowned out conversation.

Twelve children ranging from teenagers to toddlers to infants spent the past week here, scrambling across the floor, bouncing on beds. With eyes filled with resignation on Wednesday morning, they were hungry and dirty and they wore the same clothes as the day before and the day before that.

Angel Adams, the mom, was asking for help, as the children rambled about the room. She was homeless and hopeless, she said. A relative paid for the motel room for a week, and after that, who knows. Her fiancé is in prison. Her 1-year-old is named John The Baptist Brown.

With measured indignation, Adams said somebody owes her.

By the end of the day, help had arrived.

Nick Cox, regional director of the Florida Department of Children and Families, paid Adams a visit and, standing outside the motel room with all 12 children present, offered a solution. He said there was room at A Kid's Place in Brandon, a cottage large enough to house a family of 12. Wary of the offer, Adams agreed.

The lifelong Tampa resident said she wants justice from the Hillsborough County sheriff's child protection team that took her kids away from her two years ago and from Hillsborough Kids Inc., which got her kids back six months ago.

"What do I do?" she said earlier in the day. "I have no answers. My family has been railroaded. Someone needs to pay.

"Nobody's helping me."

Complete story

[Oregone]

1. Yeah, she doesn't seem like the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree

Now that we are all aware of her plight, lets punish her children to make a point (knee-jerk antiwelfare queen response). :)


(BTW, good to see the kids will probably be taken care of now, out of her custody)

[FreakinDJ]

2. I'm afraid she already did punish those children

[Oregone]

4. Real punishment would of been landing them a TLC gig

[Name removed]

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[REP]

3. Wow. Talk about the worst case scenario.

Those children need help, and she probably needs some sort of therapy.

[Warpy]

5. Let's hope those kids find some help at that cottage

and their dim bulb of a mother allows the help to be given instead of going off in another snit.

Of course, this is what the Vatican wants for all women. Maybe they're the ones who should be sent the bills.

In any case, if those kids have anything upstairs at all, you can bet their fertility rate will drop like a rock. There is nothing like growing up in a huge family like that to make you want to avoid recreating it when you grow up.

[TheOther95Percent]

11. Amen.

[ejpoeta]

6. why does anyone owe her anything??? i don't understand. if she needs help, then apply for

assistance. but don't make it sound like your problems are someone else's fault! and if you aren't taking care of your kids, they should be with someone who CAN take care of them.

[tammywammy]

8. it's the system's fault the drug dealing father is in jail, thus drying up her money supply

:eyes:

[ejpoeta]

9. well, if the guy was dealing drugs then it sounds like it's HIS fault he's in jail

not anyone else's. and can she not get a job??? how old are the kids?? any old enough to babysit?

[tammywammy]

10. In the article she says her "job" is watching after her kids

:eyes:

I feel sorry for her kids

[ejpoeta]

13. my job is watching my kids, but if my husband were in jail or otherwise unable to work

then my job would be to take care of my kids by getting a job. i feel bad for the kids. people in one parent families do it every day.... it sucks, but they do it. so do 2 parent families..... they have to work. it's called life.

[tammywammy]

24. Well yeah, that's what normal people think

People that blame the system and don't think they have to work aren't what I call "normal."

[Whisp]

96. 'don't think they have to work'... see there you go again ;)

please. being a parent is work. Women have tried to convince the centuries and the world that YES ITS FUCKING HARD WORK, but their work is looked upon as voluntary and without real value because a mother isn't making widgets or selling hedge funds - now THAT is work according to the world.

hope you get my point.

[tammywammy]

100. Yes, being a parent is work

I didn't say being a parent wasn't valuable. I totally respect parents that can AFFORD to stay home. She's has no income to support her children as a stay at home mom since their father went to prison drying up her income. What you do in that situation is get a job to make money to pay your bills. I'm not down playing stay at home parents, it's great and wonderful, but if you cannot afford to feed or shelter your children you might just wanna think about getting employment and taking in an income.

[surrealAmerican]

55. With the number of kids she has ...

... she would not be able to get a job that pays enough to cover childcare, let alone feeding and housing those children.

[ejpoeta]

56. if she has teenagers, then not all of the kids would need daycare.

but i see your point. it wouldn't be worth it for me to go get a job because of childcare costs alone. i'd hate to see the cost with 12 kids! there are ways, though. if you need to do it, there are ways.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

87. She should ask for a raise.

Tough economy, I know, but it couldn't hurt to ask right?

[Whisp]

93. I don't understand what you mean...

why are you rolling your eyes and using 'job' the way you did? Im sure I'm missing something because yes, being a mother is work and is a job. wtf?

[tammywammy]

95. Being a mom doesn't pay the bills

Obviously she needs to do something that earns money to support her family. While being a mom is a job, it's not like "being a mom" will pay the electricity bill at the end of the month.

[timtom]

104. Randi Rhodes said it best:

We're only as strong as our weakest link.

I interpret that as it's the society's duty to provide for the least among us. Universal health care, for example. Making sure that everyone in our society has their Maslowian hierarchy of needs met.

[tammywammy]

7. WTF? They "owe" her?

She should have thought about how to provide for all those kids when she kept having them. I think replying on the drug dealing father was the first mistake. She blames the system for the money "drying up" after he was jailed for selling cocaine. What a maroon.

[-..__...]

20. I don't have that much of a problem with the number of kids...

(well, actually I do, but that's another matter); it's the complete lack of responsibility and accountability that sets my bowels on fire.

Like... WTF?

[tammywammy]

23. Agreed

I hope her kids aren't learning the same lack of responsibility. :(

[Whisp]

102. I'm sure this particular case makes a lot of people feel all

self righteous and finger waggy - and the people in power just love it.

always easy to make us turn against each other, too easy.

If she needs help, I say give it to her. whats the big deal.

bottom line: you are worth nothing if you can't contribute to a corporations bottom line and a CEOs annual bonuses.

[bluestateguy]

12. 12 children? What is this? A vending machine?

When is she due to drop the next litter?

[Codeine]

14. . . .

[csziggy]

16. She's had fifteen - the oldest have "aged out"

Meaning that they are over 19 and she gets no welfare aid for them. So those poor children are now on their own. I hope they have found a different life for themselves.

[Withywindle]

41. They probably "aged out" years before that.

That's how it usually is in these insanely large families, the older kids get babysitting duties almost as soon as they're able to stand upright and wipe their own butts. They never get a chance to have a childhood of their own.

Now, I do think the upper-class fashion for extending the age of adult accountability well into the mid-20s is just as sick, but I don't want us to go back to medieval times either.

[JHB]

74. 15. Three of them "aged out" (are over 18)...

...and are no longer under the purview of the child welfare agencies.

[Name removed]

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[csziggy]

15. She was handing out a list titled "Three Fathers. One Mother. Fifteen Kids"

The 12 kids are the youngest of 15 altogether, she said. Three have "aged out," meaning they have turned 18 and are on their own, no longer a part of the child welfare system.

"I can have as many as I want to," she said. All her kids, she added, "are gifts from God."

The 37-year-old mother doesn't work. "This is my work," she said gesturing toward the bunch. "I do this all by myself. I don't know what I'm going to do. This is a revolving door going nowhere."

I am incapable of understanding her lifestyle and her choices but her situation makes me so sad for her and for her children. I hope the groups working with her can at least give the children guidance towards a different life.

[Xipe Totec]

18. Every Sperm is Sacred

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-L3JMk7C1A

[slackmaster]

29. I'd revise that to Three Sperm Donors, One Mother, Fifteen Kids, Zero Fathers

:argh:

[PJPhreak]

32. WTF??

The 37-year-old mother doesn't work. "This is my work," she said gesturing toward the bunch. "I do this all by myself. I don't know what I'm going to do. This is a revolving door going nowhere."

37 Years Old??...15 Kids??

WTF?!?

[lunasun]

17. "Somebody owes her"

...a trip to a family planning clinic! yes indeed they could help her...

[emilyg]

21. As quickly as possible.

[XemaSab]

33. Snap

:D

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

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[Mojeoux]

19. The kids need care. She needs help. SNAFU

"Education, Education, Education!!!"

mimi thayer

[Regret My New Name]

22. Breeders disgust me...

:P

[virgogal]

30. Am I a breeder? I had six. What number do you consider appropriate?

[Regret My New Name]

34. I think a good number is zero minus two.

;)

(I'm just being me... I think breeders are a-ok. In fact, my parents were breeders)

[virgogal]

35. Glad for you (you're here), and glad for your parents. :-)

[fishbulb703]

89. Does minus two mean adopting two children?

If so, I agree.

[Regret My New Name]

91. I dunno... I didn't really put much thought into it...

I'm not really one of those "thinkers". :P

teehee. I was just playing around, to be honest. Ummm, but adopting isn't a bad route for people who wish to have lots of kids... I mean, so long as they are able to support them. :/

[PSzymeczek]

150. I had one

because I did not want two. Had to go off too many meds. The one I had was stamped "Sufficient" at birth, and did not suffer from being an only child, since she had a ton of friends who were (for the most part) welcome in our home.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalhistorian]

144. How about any number beyond which you can

adequately and appropriately care for and provide for them, perhaps? Just a thought.

There are large families with many children who can do just fine and there are people who can't properly care for even a few. It depends on the people.

[leeloo]

38. You should be glad your parents did not think that way..

[yodoobo]

70. That is a disgusting word

usually used in hate speech.


But this might be the first time I've seen it used appropriately.

[LiberalAndProud]

25. Sometimes there is no right answer.

[bobbolink]

26. As someone said yesterday, something smells about this.

It too neatly hits all the RW talking points.

Yup, something doesn't fit here.

[tammywammy]

27. While she may hit the point

It maybe that she's really like that, but of course the vast majority of people that need help aren't like her.

[Richard Steele]

43. I'm a bit suspicious as well. nm

[bobbolink]

82. Its just a little too neat, isn't it? Convenient........

[Xithras]

81. Don't be surprised.

There can be an example found to support every stereotype. The fact that an example exists doesn't justify the stereotype, or validate its application to anyone beyond the example.

[mzteris]

28. sounds ike they all need to be helped into foster homes

, parental rights severed, and adoption availability entered.

And someone please tie her tubes. . . For all my support of freedom and choice and rights - there comes a point when you've abused your rights and you should lose them. Every foster kid I had, I encouraged, pleaded, and prayed with the mom to get her tubes tied. They all had multiple children in the system. Lose one, have another, lose that one have some more. It's a vicious circle.

And yeah, all the women had every helping hand/project available and would always bail because it was too restrictive. They want me to not have a boyfriend! I have to have a curfew! They want me to take drug tests. Waah - I just needed cigarettes and and and I was late and now they're mad at me. I don't LIKE the job program. I don't want to live in a "monitored apt/house/room". I don't want to take my meds... I don't want to take parenting classes, get counseling, see a therapist . . .

[corpseratemedia]

48. while I may disagree with you on charter schools...

you have my profound support for being a foster parent..that's got to be the hardest job as I can't see what it would take to undo years of neglect, mistreatment, etc.

I worked for a few months p/t at a home for unwed teens and young mothers, and I've seen some of what you've said with the "older" girls..and had full timers tell me worse.

It's profoundly unfair to keep bringing children into a chaotic, crazy life of destitution. It's beneficial for the woman and all the children (IF she cannot take care of her children and keeps having them without account for their livelihood) if her reproduction is put on hold. If she can't handle children, at least she gets a chance at stabilizing her own life, which would help to alleviate the misery of the children she already can't or can barely rear.

[mzteris]

50. well, if we all agreed on everything, the world

would be a pretty boring place. :)

Today's "foe", tomorrow's ally. . . That's why I try - I really really DO (though often fail :( ) to not "get personal" and just post the facts as I see 'em. THough yeah, I'm only human and get ticked off sometimes and say not-so-nice things. I generally try and apologize though. So if I've ever offended you, I am sorry.

We all do what we believe in. We can't all have the same facts nor the same experiences so of essence we must have differing POV's.


just fyi, I no longer foster, but did adopt our first placement - he was seven days old when he came to us. We were able to adopt him when he was two. He's eleven now. I can't imagine my life without him!!

[corpseratemedia]

58. No no :o)... you didnt offend me, i know you want the best for kids

and hats off to you for providing a loving home to a child who needed one!!:)

[saltpoint]

112. I say more power to ya, mzteris.

That's fighting the good fight and the nature of time spent well.

Bravo.

[okieinpain]

73. i agree. n/t.

[liberalhistorian]

145. Yep, I know just what you mean, having seen it way too many

times. They go on and on about "their rights" while not even considering those of their children, even if the children are in abusive/neglectful/horrible situations. Been there, done that. It makes it that much harder for those with legitimate problems or who've fallen on hard times, who really do want to try their best.

[BlooInBloo]

31. What a woman does with her own body is her own choice.

(shrug)

[tammywammy]

37. I agree, have as many kids as you want

But don't think people owe you anything.

[mzteris]

51. true - but what she puts her KIDS through, well,

that's not just her choice when it rises to the level of neglect and abuse.

Have 100 if you can properly care for them. . .

[Dappleganger]

61. She's also ruining the lives of 12.

They need to be removed from that damaging environment, ASAP.

[panzerfaust]

130. True: But why is everyone else expected to pay for the results?

Wonder how many more kids she is planning on having?

[jesus_of_suburbia]

143. This has to be satire....

even for you.


(shrug)

[jody]

36. Those who expect govt. support conception to grave should expect govt. to limit number of kids they

can have.

[leeloo]

40. Hitler thought the exact same way under the guise of Eugenics.

[Odin2005]

44. GODWIN!

[leeloo]

45. GODWI N=you said nazi or hitler so we are not going to reply..

Nazi eugenics were Nazi Germany's racially-based social policies that placed the improvement of the race through eugenics at the center of their concerns and targeted those humans they identified as "life unworthy of life" (German: Lebensunwertes Leben), including but not limited to the criminal, degenerate, dissident, feeble-minded, homosexual, idle, insane and the weak, for elimination from the chain of heredity. More than 400,000 people were sterilized against their will, while 70,000 were killed in the Action T4...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics

[AngryAmish]

57. Ask Carrie Buck how that worked in the good ole USA

[leeloo]

60. I had not read about Carrie Buck,thank you will google her later...

[jody]

52. Hegel spawned Left Hegelians & Right Hegelians. The Left became communism & the Right became Nazism.

Today the vestiges of communism in China limit a couple to one child.

[liberalhistorian]

146. Oh, for God's sake, give us a fucking break

with that shit already. This has absolutely nothing to do with that and you damned well know it.

[leeloo]

149. Post 36..

Those who expect govt support conception to grave should expect govt to limit number of kids they
can have.
Eugenics anyone....
Cursing does not impress anyone...

[Arkana]

39. No, lady--no one "owes" you a damn thing.

[Odin2005]

42. Quit popping out kids!

[BrentWil]

46. If no one helps,

The victim is the Kids. It will just repeat... over, and over, and over again.

[BuelahWitch]

47. Yes, I feel sorry for the kids

The mother is nuts.

[uppityperson]

49. Mental illness is a terrible thing. Those poor kids. eom

[proteus_lives]

53. This is depressing on so many levels.

[My Good Babushka]

54. The shredded Health and Human Services Department

the Department of Education, as well, have obviously failed this woman. But it's okay to attack her. She's a mother. Holdover from Reagan-era welfare queen women bashing. Congrats, DU.
:sarcasm:

[ipaint]

59. As a result of the parasitic wealthy spawn of the top 1% in this country.

Add up the generations of taxes those freeloaders have rigged the laws to get out of paying resulting in cuts of social service programs and education, this obviously mentally ill poor women is but a fraction of a fraction of that amount.

People on the bottom of the economic/power ladder are the result of the heaps of abuse foisted on us all by the wealthy elites and their toxic spawn at the top. They certainly aren't the prime cause of the massive re-distribution of wealth to the top or more recently (20 years) the collapse of our economic system.

Pure reaganomics combined with holier than thou bigotry pushed on the poor by "liberals" here on DU.

[cali]

62. Actually, what encouraged me in this story, was that DCF seemed to be doing a decent job

and sorry, no one needs to have frickin' fifteen kids. that's on her and her partners, not the wealthy elite.

[ipaint]

65. No it's the result of a permanent underclass of folks starved of education and the means to survive.

That adds up to bad decisions and disastrous mistakes. All preventable had the hoarding elite not drowned our rising economic democracy in a bathtub 30 odd years ago.

But by all means lash out at those at those at the bottom. I know it for some feels good.

[cali]

68. yes, it's that, but it's also this woman's decision

to have 15 kids. YOU seem to think that all poor people are stupid.

[ipaint]

98. Baloney.

I never said that. As one of those poor people I never had kids because I couldn't afford them. But having lived most of my life towards the bottom I can certainly see exactly what set into play circumstances in which some people make bad choices.

Spending time bashing the poor helps to enables the ongoing theft at the top. Give people an easy target, preferably one person/unusual circumstance who can come to represent most of the poor.

Like a bone, throw it out and the comfortable class will spend a considerable amount of time knawing on it ignoring all else.

That's what the hoarders love about ya.

[cali]

105. codswallop.

this isn't all about the wealthy elite. it's also the choices this woman made-over and over and over again.

[ipaint]

106. Keep gnawing. nt

[liberalhistorian]

147. Exactly. People DO have the capacity to think for

themselves, regardless of socioeconomic/class status. This woman's decisions are on HER, period. When you have to keep twelve children in one small hotel room, and they wear the same clothes three days in a row and are dirty and have little food, then it IS a problem and an issue. With rights come responsibilites. You may have the "right" to have children, but you also have the responsibility to adequately care for them and to not have more if you can't take care of the ones that you already do have.

[Whisp]

108. o yes indeed, agreed. congratulations are in order to so many here.

I'm pretty disgusted and disappointed, but I'll get over it. Happens quite frequently here.

[rug]

63. The tips from the Goldman Sachs lunches would pay for this family.

Let freerepublic orgasm over this.

[ecstatic]

64. Why didn't she get her own show, like the Gosselins did?

More double standards...

[jody]

66. OP prompts posts dripping sarcasm & placing blame elsewhere but why so little objective debate?

China has the same problem, i.e. population exceeds society's capability to provide bare minimum support to its citizens.

What does society do under those conditions?

Among solutions are:

a. Reduce population size by imposing limits on births,

b. Provide less than bare minimum support to some citizens.

If the U.S. faces China's problem, what should we do?

[Statistical]

67. Birth control should be free. Hell I would advocate paying people to use birth control

Which is cheaper lifetime supply of birth control or lifetime costs of 12 kids "in the system".

[yodoobo]

69. I hate to rent the hotel room next door.

[AnArmyVeteran]

71. Where are the Pro-Lifers! Where are the Pro-Lifers! Where are the Pro-Lifers!

Where in the hell are the pro-lifers? Shouldn't they be oozing out of the woodwork to provide food, shelter and physical assistance for this mother? Pro-lifers are opposed to sex education so they by default are promoting sexual ignorance. Maybe if this mother had real sex education she would understand what happens when she mates with a man.

Pro-lifers have huge rallies, they put thousands of crosses on their church lawns, they spend huge amounts of money and they even assassinate doctors, so is it unreasonable to expect their help for this mother of 12? She should be one of their heroes and prime examples of how good the pro-life movement is.

[NaturalHigh]

141. A lot of people, including church people, have given assistance.

Link...

[okieinpain]

72. the stupid churches that are against abortion should all chip in and

help her. the thought that someone could be this stupid drives me crazy, damn she didn't know what was causing her to get pregnant. all of the kids should be removed from her and sent to a foster home, then they need to tell her to get a freakin job.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

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[saltpoint]

79. How about foster placement in good environments for the young

folks and some community-directed support and counseling for mom?

The woman is overwhelmed and we can't wind the clock back before she had 12 babies.

They're here now and deserve some support to make their way in the world.

I don't see anything in the piece that suggests that their mother cannot be salvaged as a more forward-looking and affirming soul, and she deserves that chance.

[bobbolink]

83. Try reading up on "foster placement". You think the Catholic Church is rife with pedophilia....

think about foster parents.

[saltpoint]

85. bobbolink, one of these days, just maybe, you'll stop painting with a

brush that spans 9 time zones.

For Christ's sake.

[bobbolink]

86. thank you for the attack. you've become quite good at that.

So, now, try looking more closely into foster "care". What you will see is sickening.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

103. Since changing your name, you have accused a lot of people of a lot of things.

Please, put me on your ignore list.

It will be a favor to both of us.

Thank you.

[saltpoint]

109. I don't keep an ignore list. And I'm always up for a conversation.

In this case it would have been about getting sufficient community support for those 12 of her 15 kids and some supportive, clarifying counseling for mom.

You seized the occasion to broadbrush all foster placement families as pedophilic.

[saltpoint]

90. You might also try having a conversation once in a while instead of

going on offense 24-7.

You might be surprised (and I hope delighted) at how many people who post around here are pretty knowledgeable about what they do in their lives and who are great sources of information.

I've learned an awful lot from them. You might try that approach also.

I don't think you are being reasonable in (evidently) closing off avenues of support and counsel this mother in the Tampa case needs and deserves.

I was as surprised at the swiftness of your objection as I was to your broad-brush intent, as if all foster families were pedophiles. What utter horseshit.

[bobbolink]

101. Had you actually read what I said, you would have understood that there is just as much pedophilia

in foster homes as there is in the Catholic church, which was exactly my point. Yet, it is fine on DU to, in your terms, "broad brush" the whole church for the actions of a percentage of the priests, yet saying that there is child abuse in foster homes is "utter horsehit". Nice attack, that.

Had you wanted to, rather than make alll kinds of ugly assertions, like I am "closing off avenues of support and counsel for this mother in Tampa" -- Gee, I had no idea I was that powerful!!-- you would understand that foster homes are far from perfect, and also need some of the same oversight that the Catholic Church does.

But, then, you wouldn't have had as much fun trashing me, would you?

Talk about power....

[saltpoint]

110. When you have a chance to stick to a topic, take it.

You not only ducked the subject at hand but failed to regard the comprehensive reliability of many foster care settings, TO WHICH mental health care clinicians refer clients EVERY DAY of the week.

Again, you don't have to take my word for it. Check with a local social worker. Check with your local Child Protective Services office. And if you hear word that foster care placements in your area or elsewhere are on hold owing to rife pedophilia, I will officially apologize to you.

If you do not hear that, however, I want the same deal.

[mzteris]

92. pedophilia is rife everywhere -

do I think there should be VERY CAREFUL screening of foster/adoptive parents? Absolutely!!

But PLEASE don't think for one second that all foster parents are monsters. Remember, you only "hear" about the bad experiences.

If you're going to prevent people from fostering or adopting, are you going to prevent them from having or parenting kids. Marrying women with children? Working anywhere anytime?

You can't live your life in a rubber room...

What do you suggest be done with these children? Obviously that many kids living in one room with a mentally ill woman isn't a very good option. What, exactly, do you suggest be done?

[bobbolink]

94. I'll remember that if you'll also remember that not ALL Catholic priests abuse kids.

AND, speak up for that in some of the HATE CATHOLICS threads.

Deal?

[saltpoint]

111. Had you remembered that going in, you might also have remembered

that not all foster homes sanction pedophilia; in fact, most don't.

Most 7-11 stores don't, most department stores, most schools, most churches, most Jiffy Lubes, hardware shops, bakeries, and so forth.

Your admonition that foster placement would be inappropriate on those grounds was broadbrush, dismissive, and inaccurate. It's real hard to see how you come off blasting dedicated and compassionate foster parents for their love of adopted kids. Jesus.

And that's where you came in to this subthread, bobbolink. Slashing and broadbrushing, your usual.

[bobbolink]

114. Actualy, that post wasn't directed at you. YOU are the one who accused me of broadbrushing.

That was NOT in what I wrote.. it was in your imagination.

given that, it is useless to argue, so please put me on ignore. Obviously you are never going to like anything I write, and I don't like hearing your accusations.

Buhbye

[saltpoint]

115. It was exactly what you wrote.

I'm fine with things you write, bobbolink, but at the same time you rolled into a perfectly reasonable social solution with all guns blazing.

I will not put you on ignore, as I don't keep an ignore list.

There are a lot of people on this site who know a hell of a lot more about many things than I do and in part I'm on here in the first place to appreciate that and maybe learn a lesson or two.

My suggestion was for structure and support for the 12 kids in a good foster setting and for support and counseling for mom.

That's all I goddam said. Run what I typed past a social worker and a CPS official and again, if you are told that pedophilia should obviate placement I will apologize to you in your hometown paper. I want the same deal, though, if my suggestion is upheld by the clinicians.

[bobbolink]

117. I don't talk that way, and if you are "fine" with what I write, then you know that.

I'm sick of the broad brushing of Catholics, of whom there are many on DU. Yet, I don't see you going after that!

There IS abuse in the foster system,, and anyone who knows the system knows that. As a matter of fact, right now there is a problem with a foster child who can't be located because the foster parents aren't at their contact info, and left no forwarding information! That is going on right now!

I don't care about the cover-your-ass of the people in agencies who don't want to be honest about what goes on. Some are honest and some aren't. But ANY dishonesty, particularly about children, whether it be in the Catholic Church or the governmental departments are odious.

I really don't care to discuss it with you.... after your baseless attack, I have no desire to try to reach any kind of understanding. I take enough garbage in everyday life.

So, consider yourself ignored.

Buhbye

[saltpoint]

118. bobbolink, again, the topic in the thread involves one mother and her

12 children.

Her religion, whatever it may be, is not the point at hand.

If you want to do a pro-Catholic thread, move it to the Religion / Philosophy forum.

No claim has been made that there is no abuse in cases involving foster placements. Your comment broadbrushed the option of foster placement, specifically in relation to these 12 kids. And for no reason. Or for no good reason.

I have no idea which "cover-your-ass" people you're talking about. If you find some instance of malfeasance or fraud etc. I suggest you report it to law enforcement.

You write, "I have no desire to try to reach any kind of understanding." Which you demonstrated with your pouncing on foster placement as an option for these 12 kids. Most behavioral health specialists, IMO, would strongly recommend such a placement, or perhaps a group home for the older two or three.

You are mistaken going in to this topic, then avoided the topic left and right, and now are slamming the door on the points at hand. Sheesh.

[mzteris]

137. I've never thought all Catholic Priests abuse kids...

though I'm more of an agnostic/atheist - I will speak up against the broadbrush smear.

I read a great article the other day on Nuns - and it talked about the dedication of the priests and nuns "in the trenches" so to speak. About how far removed they were from the Vatican and how they really did dedicate their lives to helping others. I support people like that 100% - regardless of the reason they do it.

[saltpoint]

138. The people you cite are exactly the heart of the Church, it seems to

this non-Catholic.

We never hear of their names or of their hard work and sacrifice, or of their good deeds.

We ought to.

[Liberal_in_LA]

97. "I can have as many as I want to," she said. All her kids, she added, "are gifts from God."

:eyes:

[AnArmyVeteran]

131. Even wild beasts don't produce more than they can take care of...

This woman is selfish. She is putting her self interests ahead of that of the 'god' she professes to believe in. God doesn't want people to breed like farm animals without thought of the future or the responsibilities of mating. What would happen to our world if every woman was as selfish as this one? God gave her a brain that is bigger than her female organs. She needs to start using it with 'responsible thinking' rather than remain in the missionary position concentrated only on her genitals.

[Cali_Democrat]

99. I just wanted to say that this thread is VERY entertaining

:popcorn:

[Javaman]

107. 12 kids in a motel room in filthy clothes.

why isn't social services involved?

She's obviously unable or incapable of taking care of the children from either an emotion or financial stand point.

She needs a psychological examination. "I can have as many as I want to," she said. All her kids, she added, "are gifts from God."

Sure you can, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand economics of having child versus income.

Plus, what's with the name Gary? 5 kids with the same name?

[saltpoint]

113. The mother's quotations here are important but secondary to her kids' needs.

There are 12 of them who need some serious support.

The world is difficult enough when many advantages are in place, and far more complex when few are in place.

The legal angle with Hillsborough County is generally separate from her future role as an effective adult, which IMO could still be achieved and realized.

What possible good would it do her to hear me say, "Well, Jesus, you shouldn't have had that many kids in the first place," when all 12 of the 15 are living in one motel room near Tampa, Florida as we speak?

None at all.

So the response to these circumstances matters more than quotations describing them by this mother. I believe a coordinated treatment team could bring her into a whole new zone of clarity of purpose and a functional citizenship, plus some parenting skills for future interactions with her 12 kids. There are still some good things that might be plumbed from this, IMO.

For the kids, foster placement offers them a chance of maintaining a relationship on visitation with their mother and siblings but an affirming environment with structure and support to help them navigate their way through their next several years. I don't see any reason why any of them should be denied a clear shot at a fair life.

[NaturalHigh]

116. Though I don't think it's a good idea...

I believe that everyone has the right to bear as many children as they want. However, I think both parents are responsible for their offspring. They shouldn't rely on others to pay for them.

Having twelve children and expecting taxpayers to support them should be criminal.

[bobbolink]

119. "Having twelve children and expecting taxpayers to support them"

We don't know that is actually true, do we?

Don't you think this is all a bit too pat to be true?

I find it interesting that in other subjects, DUers will be quite careful of what they believe.

When it comes to poverty, though, they seem to swallow anything that it put out there.

Why is that?

[saltpoint]

121. IMO the issue at hand is placement, not poverty.

The poverty is obvious, owing to the entire 12 of the kids plus mom living in a motel room.

Public officials must decided how to respond to dispositional issues in a case like this.

You seem to think that fraud is involved. I'm guessing you have no evidence. The public officials' job is the same either way, so long as the 12 kids need health care, dental services, school enrollment, and daily nutrition, as that is the role those particular public officials have been asked to play.

Most of them do their jobs very well.

I see some positive things coming out of this, and I hope the 12 younguns will be ok in the long run. You wanna root for folks, not against 'em.

[NaturalHigh]

122. "Somebody owes me."

Did you read the article? She makes it pretty clear. This is not just projecting a stereotype.

I find your allegation that DUers don't care about poverty offensive. Personally, I think homelessness is the worst blight on our nation. My sympathy in this particular case is reserved for the children, but I hope the mother is given help as well. She obviously needs it, in more ways than one.

[saltpoint]

124. Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[bobbolink]

126. You actually know this is a real person? You know her? You know she actually said these things?

Clearly, you have decided she is "mentally ill" from your choice of words, so I'm assuming you know the woman in question.

You don't think its all just a little toooooooo close to the RW talking points?

I repeat.... its interesting that DUers will question assertions in almost every other topic, but when it comes to poverty, they swallow it all whole.

Why is that?

[NaturalHigh]

128. Well, I read the article.

Judging by her words and actions, yes, I believe she is mentally ill.

As for your thoughts on DUers' views on poverty, I respectfully disagree.

[bobbolink]

134. "Judging by her words and actions" So, the media is always accurate?

I repeat... you know this is an actual person?

You don't think this reeks of Faux-type reporting?

I didn't express ANY opinion on DUers and poverty, although I have some.

What I question is WHY DUers would be skeptical of other issues being reported and the accuracy thereof, but not one having to do with poverty?

You don't ever reply to that question, you just assume I'm saying something else, and put me down.

So, have at it.

The last word is yours.

[panzerfaust]

132. Do you know her?

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/article1090453.ece

"A lot of people have gone way extra miles for you," {Judge} Sheehan said {After the state has, once again, found her a place to live}. "Do you understand that?"

Adams {the mother in question} replied quietly, "No comment, your honor."

"Hear what I'm saying," the judge told her. "Reach out your hand to these people instead of looking a gift horse in the mouth and asking for more, more, more."

[bobbolink]

142. Nobody here knows her, isn't that the point? Is it beyond Faux news to make up shit?

You think stories like this are never made up?

Really?

[Stevenmarc]

129. .

[NaturalHigh]

135. Oh, you are bad.

I want to give you a :rofl: before your reply is deleted.

[Stevenmarc]

139. Thanks

I self deleted that one to save them the trouble. Although it did feel good to get that one out of my system.

[Zipp]

120. "I can have as many as I want to," she said. All her kids, she added, "are gifts from God."

....as long as someone else pays for them.

[NaturalHigh]

123. Bingo!

:thumbsup:

[Taverner]

Wow...a real life Human-Rabbit hybrid

Who woulda thunk?

[mstinamotorcity]

125. Okay everybody take a chill pill

There are a lot of us who would never see ourselves in this situation. I must admit 15 children is a bit more than I would like to deal with. But there are three children who aged out,meaning they are over 18. If the oldest is twenty she started having children at an awfully young age. Where was her mother at for guidance.Was she a foster child. There are a lot of things that could have led to her with all those children. Birth Control is always an option,but not for everyone. And right to lifers should be rallying around this woman.Hypocrites. I just hope that they get themselves educated and not make the mistakes of their mother or fathers. Children deserve the best shot that a parent can give them within reason. I hope things work out for her.Even though if I had twelve children I would probably think it was the end of the world,Its not.

[Dappleganger]

127. Update on the Mother of 12 Story: "Wants help, but no part of helpers"

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/article1090453.ece

"A courtroom full of people who paid off Angel Yulee Adams' debts and found a furnished, rent-free, six-bedroom home for her and her dozen children waited Monday morning for a sign of gratitude, a clue of cooperation. They waited for a thank you.

They didn't get it. Adams, 37, said she was glad to have the home. But she wanted them all out of her life."

***************

As a former GAL volunteer, it's a relief to see the degree to which the court and DCF is involved with this family. They are watching her like a hawk and if she does not step up and do what needs to be done to take care of the children, they will be removed to the foster system.

Read more of her history...if anyone else has more links to add to the story, please post them.

[NaturalHigh]

133. Wow. It's hard to think nice fuzzy thoughts about this woman.

[Dappleganger]

136. The children are the victims, here.

Having watched this scene played out (but on a smaller-scale due the family's size), I am not very hopeful that Mom will ever change. There's a mindset here born out of lack of education, bad upbringing and all the behind-the-scene-unknowns (mental disease, addiction, abuse, etc.).

[NaturalHigh]

140. Very true.

I wish them the best, but I can't honestly say that I'm optimistic.

[slackmaster]

151. I feel more sympathy for her after reading about her failure to express any gratitude

This is a woman who has never grown up, never been socialized as a functional adult.

She has sufficient social skills (and intelligence?) to get pregnant, but not much more.

I was touched by the DCF person's comment "She is the ultimate test of our belief.".

[slackmaster]

148. She sounds very frustrated with her situation, though most of her problems are a result of choices

That she made.

[slackmaster]

152. Homeless mom of 12 held in contempt; kids put in foster care

The woman is a mess.

...Angel Adams, 37, refused to answer the judge's question of whether she is pregnant or not.

"No comment," was all Adams, who has a total of 15 children, would say.

Hillsborough Circuit Judge Tracy Sheehan, who became visibly more agitated at each turn, ordered Adams jailed for contempt of court. Adams glanced at her sister seated nearby and was emotionless when she was handcuffed and led from the courtroom by two female bailiffs. The judge also granted a motion by the Florida Department of Children & Families to place the children in foster care.

Adams and her family had been living in A Kid's Place, a shelter for children in foster care near Brandon. The dozen children, ages 6 months to 16 years, will remain together at the facility, the judge ruled....

[Beaverhausen]

153. dupe

someone else just posted this

sad story all around