Everyone's missing the point... AZ Law not meant to arrest/deport population.

[greencharlie]

I suggest everyone READ the bill before posting crap. It's available online, google it. I'll help.

"The legislature finds that there is a compelling interest in the
cooperative enforcement of federal immigration laws throughout all of
Arizona. The legislature declares that the intent of this act is to make
attrition through enforcement the public policy of all state and local
government agencies in Arizona. The provisions of this act are intended to
work together to discourage and deter the unlawful entry and presence of
aliens and economic activity by persons unlawfully present in the United
States."

They admit it... this law is not about deporting illegals. It's not about arresting them. It's not about any of that. It's about "persuading" them to move to California and New Mexico.

A. NO OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR
OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY ADOPT A POLICY THAT LIMITS OR
RESTRICTS THE ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN THE FULL
EXTENT PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW.

this means that the AZ gov't will force all agencies (including the Mayor of PHX) to comply.

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

this means that during everday police contact with the public, the officers shall make a reasonable attempt to determine the immigration status of the contacted person.

C. IF AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IS
CONVICTED OF A VIOLATION OF STATE OR LOCAL LAW, ON DISCHARGE FROM
IMPRISONMENT OR ASSESSMENT OF ANY FINE THAT IS IMPOSED, THE ALIEN SHALL BE
TRANSFERRED IMMEDIATELY TO THE CUSTODY OF THE UNITED STATES IMMIGRATION AND
CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT OR THE UNITED STATES CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION.

after determining if a contact is legal/illegal... if that illegal individual is CONVICTED of a state or federal crime, when they're released from jail, they go straight to the local ICE station for deportation. However... ICE may or may NOT deport the individual. Possible they could be released.

E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON
IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED
ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.

interesting section...


J. THIS SECTION SHALL BE IMPLEMENTED IN A MANNER CONSISTENT WITH
FEDERAL LAWS REGULATING IMMIGRATION, PROTECTING THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF ALL
PERSONS AND RESPECTING THE PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES OF UNITED STATES
CITIZENS.

boiler plate protection here...

E. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A PEACE OFFICER MAY LAWFULLY STOP
ANY PERSON WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE IF THE OFFICER HAS REASONABLE
SUSPICION TO BELIEVE THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF ANY CIVIL TRAFFIC LAW AND
THIS SECTION.

"failed to stop at that light there, Julio??"

A. IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR AN OCCUPANT OF A MOTOR VEHICLE THAT IS STOPPED
ON A STREET, ROADWAY OR HIGHWAY TO ATTEMPT TO HIRE OR HIRE AND PICK UP
PASSENGERS FOR WORK AT A DIFFERENT LOCATION IF THE MOTOR VEHICLE BLOCKS OR
IMPEDES THE NORMAL MOVEMENT OF TRAFFIC.
B. IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON TO ENTER A MOTOR VEHICLE THAT IS
STOPPED ON A STREET, ROADWAY OR HIGHWAY IN ORDER TO BE HIRED BY AN OCCUPANT
OF THE MOTOR VEHICLE AND TO BE TRANSPORTED TO WORK AT A DIFFERENT LOCATION IF
THE MOTOR VEHICLE BLOCKS OR IMPEDES THE NORMAL MOVEMENT OF TRAFFIC.
C. IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED
STATES AND WHO IS AN UNAUTHORIZED ALIEN TO KNOWINGLY APPLY FOR WORK, SOLICIT
WORK IN A PUBLIC PLACE OR PERFORM WORK AS AN EMPLOYEE OR INDEPENDENT
CONTRACTOR IN THIS STATE.

making it quite illegal to stand on a street corner looking for work and illegal to pick up someone

A. An employer shall not knowingly employ an unauthorized alien. If,
in the case when an employer uses a contract, subcontract or other
independent contractor agreement to obtain the labor of an alien in this
state, the employer knowingly contracts with an unauthorized alien or with a
person who employs or contracts with an unauthorized alien to perform the
labor, the employer violates this subsection.

and making it illegal (it's already illegal) for any employer to hire illegals

4. THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF A CRIMINAL OFFENSE AND IS
TRANSPORTING, MOVING, CONCEALING, HARBORING OR SHIELDING OR ATTEMPTING TO
TRANSPORT, MOVE, CONCEAL, HARBOR OR SHIELD AN ALIEN IN THIS STATE IN A
VEHICLE IF THE PERSON KNOWS OR RECKLESSLY DISREGARDS THE FACT THAT THE ALIEN
HAS COME TO, HAS ENTERED OR REMAINS IN THE UNITED STATES IN VIOLATION OF LAW.

basically any willful contact with an illegal immigrant is now illegal

B. A peace officer shall cause the removal and impoundment of a
vehicle if the peace officer determines that a person is driving the vehicle
and if all of the following apply:
1. The person's driving privilege is canceled, suspended or revoked
for any reason or the person has not ever been issued a driver license or
permit by this state and the person does not produce evidence of ever having
a driver license or permit issued by another jurisdiction.
2. The person is not in compliance with the financial responsibility
requirements of chapter 9, article 4 of this title.
3. The person is driving a vehicle that is involved in an accident
that results in either property damage or injury to or death of another
person.

this section allows for the impoundment of vehicles for the above reasons. Keep in mind, it's quite expensive to recover a towed vehicle.



There... you NOW know more about the bill/law than 99% of your neighbors and 99% of the talking morons on the TV.

Basically... there's NOTHING ground-breaking in this bill/law. And like it or not... nothing illegal or unconstitutional. Most of these items already exist in state or federal law.

So here's some "inside baseball"...

This law is designed to be a "big bright yellow bug-zapper" hanging over the state. It's meant to discourage and persuade the illegal immigrant population to wilfully depopulate. It's more of a PR ploy to get the word out that the state wants the illegal immigrants to leave. The law sets a new standard of enforcement for AZ law enforcement... it will be "inconvenient" to be illegal in AZ. This also means that California, already struggling economically... will be swamped with a new load of illegal immigrants soon.

that's it... illegal? Probably not, I'm afraid. Inhuman? Yeah, probably.

[saltpoint]

1. I find your analogy of human beings and insects less than charming.

The law is ugly. It is driven by bigotry and ignorance and fear and should never ever have been proposed, nevermind signed by a U.S. Governor, in 2010.

And by the way, it's the 'inhuman' part that has liberals up in arms, and properly so.

[greencharlie]

3. agreed...

and the bug zapper analogy portrays the intent behind the law.

[saltpoint]

5. And in so doing reveals the Republicans who drafted and signed it

to be inhumane.

Hence, the fierce objections.

[greencharlie]

6. absolutely...

as a "law" goes... it's fairly benign. As an "attitude" it's dangerous and cruel.

[saltpoint]

7. Wrong. The law is a permission slip to practice bigotry.

It is a hallpass to inhumane treatment of powerless people.

[greencharlie]

12. agreed... AGAIN!

but as a law, it's benign. It's mostly existing statutes... nothing new here EXCEPT the attitude/strategy behind it.

[Raineyb]

57. No it's not benign and if you think this will only be applied to Latinos

you're mistaken. It will be applied to any one of color under the guise of looking for undocumented immigrants. These are the same morons who apparently think it's impossible for a black man born in this country to actually manage to be elected President. So no I don't think this law is at all benign. It is a license for every racist fuck to harass anyone who isn't white. It's a throwback to Jim Crow and it's unacceptable.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. +1

[AnArmyVeteran]

43. I agree, but do you really believe Bush or Palin's brains are bigger than a dung beetle's???

[saltpoint]

44. LOL. Granted, Palin and Bush as the lead-off hitters could sink

the theory...

[WeDidIt]

2. Man are you off base.

:eyes:

It's patently unconstitutional on its face under Article VI, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution.

Furthermore, it violates the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment.

[greencharlie]

4. yeah?

that's a stretch... have your read A6-C2? S-T-R-E-T-C-H... and a 14th AM violation is equally stretched.

And btw, show me the contradiction in Fed/State law.

[WeDidIt]

8. I'll betcha a $100 donation to DU it gets thrown out over one of those two

before it ever goes into effect.

[greencharlie]

9. by the SCOTUS? before it's enacted in June?

you think so?

[WeDidIt]

11. Federal District Court.

The SCOTUS will uphold the lower court's opinion after it takes the case next session.

Most likely, the District Court will strike it down under both arguments, and possibly more.

It is unconstitutional on its face.

[EFerrari]

25. It goes into effect Aug 1.

[Tempest]

37. A federal district court will stop it before it takes effect

And by placing an injunction on its implementation, it won't take effect until SCOTUS rules on it.

And that's assuming SCOTUS will even take the case. They most likely will turn down any appeal because the bill is so blatantly unconstitutional.

[zipplewrath]

20. Actually, 14th is most likely

It's an equal protection issue. About the time that someone is getting stopped several times a week, for whatever reason, it's going to become an equal protection problem.

[sinkingfeeling]

23. Equal protection is what will get this hateful law shot down. Read this and get back to us.

http://www.salon.com/news/immigration/index.html?story=/news/feature/2010/04/26/is_arizona_immigration_law_constitutional

[billh58]

48. The "contradiction" is

that Federal law, and other State laws do not encourage racial-profiling which has been ruled un-constitutional in case after case across this country. Federal law (for the most part) is applied evenly to ALL races and nationalities.

This "the Arizona law is benign" dog won't hunt bubba...

[AnArmyVeteran]

47. WeDitIt, about your tagline concerning the Patriot Act...

If I recall correctly Cynthia McKinney, a California representative at the time, was the only member of congress to vote against the Patriot Act. I applauded her effort when she singlehandedly voted against the Bush Regime's 'Patriot Act'. After her vote she received death threats and was called unAmerican and worse. The Bush Regime deliberately named that bill the Patriot Act so they could fill it with anything they wanted, knowing it would be hard to vote against anything with the name 'Patriot' in it. Unfortunately, most people are easily swayed by emotion. Cynthia McKinney had the courage to stand up to the Bush Regime, but unfortunately most democratic leaders were cowards. For her courage she was defeated by a large margin by easily duped people who bought into the right wing attacks against her.

[Cleita]

10. This is a law that has as its core, the totalitarian

"Show me your papers" written into law. It won't only be inconvenient to be illegal in AZ but inconvenient to be any shade of brown. I doubt if any European looking people will be asked for their documentation. You know this law is fascist and it doesn't belong anywhere in America. I hope Obama and Congress move quickly to strike this down as unconstitutional. Also, as revealed today, it's also about voter suppression. This law should be rescinded immediately.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8219332

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Ilegal, what about the 4th and 14th ammendment?

How bout the Primacy Clause?

Oh never mind... and nice allusion to the OTHER.

[saltpoint]

17. Agreed. And an allusion which references "bug zappers" no less.

:hi:

[yellowcanine]

14. "reasonable suspicion" ....therein lies the problem. Law enforcement is supposed to use "probable

cause", not "reasonable suspicion" before they start demanding papers. "Walking while Mexican" could be "reasonable suspicion", it is not "probable cause."

[Riftaxe]

45. Reasonable Suspcicion is hardly anything

new as far as precedence in law goes.

Surely you have heard of Terry stops? Perhaps a reading of the Supreme court Terry vs. Ohio ruling might shine light on the reasons that the law will not be overturned on a reasonable suspicion standard.

[Desertrose]

15. Words say one thing, but actions are another.

It is meant to put fear in to all non-whites. Say what you want about the wording but the energy behind this whole bill/law...movement...is simply hate.

Stirs the whole hate-pot to near boiling and with the summer heat coming soon...guaranteed it'll boil over in to one big ass ugly mess.

[saltpoint]

18. If the talking heads were truly useful they would talk like that and

say just those things.

Excellent post, Desertrose.

[Desertrose]

22. Thanks, saltpoint.....

I call it as I see it.

[greencharlie]

24. agreed... AGAIN!

like I said... sigh

It's a cleanly written (dontcha' think that Brewer had a horde of constitutional lawyers working on this the last year?) strategy to scare off the illegal immigrants...

[saltpoint]

28. It's my guess she had a Rolodex stuffed with GOP fatcat donors.

She may have breezed it by a lawyer or two, but generally the flare of the thing was the heart of thing.

Her signing statement, by the way, was a vulgar trespass. It was sickening.

[greencharlie]

31. you think so?

When I think GOP fatcat donors... I think big BUSINESS. And BIG BUSINESS likes cheap labor.

No, it wasn't BIG BUSINESS. Btw, 70% of Zonies polled like the new law...

[saltpoint]

34. I'm familiar with current polling but that isn't the issue at hand.

Brewer knew this would reverberate coast the coast.

She did not sign the 1070 despite that awareness but because of it.

Arrests can be quite selective or, as in the case of skin color, they can be quite broad-brushed.

The intent of the law is not benign, but is intended to debase, intimidate, and subtract from the dignity of human beings.

[greencharlie]

35. agreed... AGAIN!

the intent is worse than the law...

[saltpoint]

36. They are the same goddam thing, dude.

[greencharlie]

39. no...

if the LAW were unconstitutional, it could be weakened or deconstructed. Intent can't be legislated.

Point is... legally, in a civil rights focus, the law is pretty cleanly written. Most/all of it will pass judicial muster. They're using the law as the CLUB for their intentions...

[saltpoint]

40. Intent most certainly CAN be legislated and is, often.

I disagree with you on its Constitutionality.

"We, the People, in order to form..." has 'in order to form' at its heart. THAT is intent.

[greencharlie]

41. look at it this way...

it's already illegal in the entire country to be an illegal immigrant. But there's no INTENT to enforce the law in most places. Add the INTENT and is the law unconstitutional?

Another analogy... some communities want to discourage young people cruising the boulevards in their cars with the stereos cranked up.

So the communities enforce rarely used code like "noise laws" and "modified vehicle" regulations. The kids say "screw this" and drive over to the next town over. Is it "harassment" to torment the young people? Absolutely... illegal? Not.

[saltpoint]

42. So it's your view that intent can be legislated, or not?

I say it is.

Noise ordinances are not the same as racial profiling, by the way.

[billh58]

65. What a bunch of

absolutely convoluted, and twisted logic. The intent of the Arizona "law" is not to enforce Federal Law (which is NOT the purview of Arizona, btw) but to implement racial-profiling. What's next for Arizona, going after Hispanic Federal tax cheats?

And are you actually comparing Arizona Hispanics with rowdy "kids" playing loud music? You, my friend, are a piece-of-work and apparently quite willing to show your willful ignorance in public.

[Tempest]

38. 100% of AZ could support the bill and it would still be unconstitutional

This will never take effect, although I hope it does.

It would be the final nail in the GOP.

[joeybee12]

16. The intent is to harass...n/t

[ima_sinnic]

19. unrecced for minimizing the impact & intent of an inhumane naziesque law (nt)

[saltpoint]

21. ima_sinnic, I'll follow you on that and second your unrec.

[blm]

32. not unusual for this poster....

.

[louis-t]

26. Uh, I see it's already to late to tell you...

DUCK!!!

[librechik]

27. the zapper has a big sign on it: AZ POLICE MAY/WILL ABUSE THIS LAW AT WILL

thanks for the excellent rundown, green

[greencharlie]

30. you're welcome...

just spreading the light on the disinformation out there.

[billh58]

50. So you really

believe that Sheriff Joe won't use this "law" to further his ethnic cleansing crusade? The only disinformation around here is the pile of crap that you and others are attempting to spread, bubba.

[greencharlie]

51. of course he will...

didn't you read all of my posts? The net effect of this law will be bad things... but I think the law has been crafted carefully enough to thread the judicial needle.

Intent=Bad

Law=clean

[billh58]

54. This is just sad

bubba. "Intent" is a very large part of determining the Constitutionality of ANY law or government policy. Cleverly worded racism, remains racism, and racial-profiling has been ruled un-Constitutional over, and over, and over.

[Lost4words]

33. I am so happy you live nowhere near me.

[billh58]

46. All very pretty words,

but your defense of racial-profiling and racist rednecked Republicans is disgusting. Do you suppose that YOU are the only one who has read the "law?" The media is only reporting the outrage of the citizens of Arizona, the White House, the Arizona Police Chiefs Association, and millions of other Americans who see a Jim Crow "law" for what it really is.

An Arizona citizen who is a native-born American of Mexican heritage was arrested recently for not having the "proper ID" in his possession at a truck weighing station -- before this "law" has even taken effect. Benign?" Pure and utter bullshit, and Jan Brewer and the entire Arizona Republican contingent thanks you for your patronage.

[greencharlie]

49. I'm sorry...

but I can't see the smallest glint of similarity between 1070 and Jim Crow laws.

Like it or not... there are existing laws that make it illegal to be present in the US without certain conditions, like residency, citizenship, VISA, etc...

I personally don't like the final effect of the law... I think it's morally wrong. But from a legal perspective, you can't call it a "Jim Crow" law.

[billh58]

52. Maybe YOU can't

but millions of us who remember Mississippi's and other rednecked States' "laws" can certainly call it a Jim Crow law. We can call it that because it targets a particular race and because it segregates a part of Arizona's population for additional scrutiny by law enforcement.

The "law" encourages infringement on the Civil Rights of Arizona citizens, and that alone makes it a Jim Crow piece-of-crap, bigoted, racist, "law."

The only way that this "law" can be applied evenly, is to ask each and every Arizona citizen to provide their "proof of citizenship" when stopped by law enforcement, for ANY reason, and even that would be illegal.

Again, nice try bubba, but no cigar...

[greencharlie]

53. Well...

I'll take the "bubba" thing as a slur.

IGNORE

"click"

[billh58]

55. Cool...

It points out a certain "mindset."

[greencharlie]

59. a bit more...

Aliens and Nationality - 8 USC Section 1373

(a) In general Notwithstanding any other provision of Federal, State, or local law, a Federal, State, or local government entity or official may not prohibit, or in any way restrict, any government entity or official from sending to, or receiving from, the Immigration and Naturalization Service information regarding the citizenship or immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any individual. (b) Additional authority of government entities Notwithstanding any other provision of Federal, State, or local law, no person or agency may prohibit, or in any way restrict, a Federal, State, or local government entity from doing any of the following with respect to information regarding the immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any individual: (1) Sending such information to, or requesting or receiving such information from, the Immigration and Naturalization Service. (2) Maintaining such information. (3) Exchanging such information with any other Federal, State, or local government entity. (c) Obligation to respond to inquiries The Immigration and Naturalization Service shall respond to an inquiry by a Federal, State, or local government agency, seeking to verify or ascertain the citizenship or immigration status of any individual within the jurisdiction of the agency for any purpose authorized by law, by providing the requested verification or status information.

the AZ law specifically states it will use 8 USC S1373 to ascertain legal citizenship. The mechanism is already in place, federally... the individual peace officer won't make the call to determine if someone is legal or not. So basically... there's no need for special "papers", just a simple drivers license or ID card will do.

[billh58]

62. Your interpretation

of this damnable "law" means jackshit bubba, and your sad attempts to defend it speaks volumes about you. The intent of Arizona's Republicans is to drive ALL Hispanics out of the State, because their votes are overwhelmingly Democratic, and they are growing in numbers -- legally.

Arizona's "problem" is not illegal immigrants, but drugs and gangs, and this "law" does absolutely nothing to address those very real problems. What is DOES do, however, is give Sheriff Joe and his counterparts a legal excuse to harass, and discriminate against, ALL Hispanics, including native-born Americans, Green Card holders, and undocumented aliens.

Immigration laws and regulations are already in place, and they are administered by the Federal Government -- NOT at the bloody State level. One can not "immigrate" to Arizona, but only to the United States of America. You can cut and paste sections of laws all day long, and it doesn't change the fact that Arizona's new racist law is un-Constitutional on many levels.

There is no such thing as a "good law, with bad intentions." The intent and effect of any law is the Constitutional test, and not its flowery language.

[Karenina]

56. You've missed the forest for the trees...

One might call them "facts on the ground" that were established LONG before you and yours graced the land.

[David Zephyr]

58. "Everyone is missing the point" you say. What a crock!

Your point is that the new law is Arizona is "legal".

Well, guess what?

Slavery was legal.

Killing native Americans was legal.

Prohibiting women from owning property or voting or sitting as a juror was legal.

Imprisonment of homosexuals for being homosexual was legal.

What a shitty argument you have made here and it reveals a lot about you that you chose to lecture us that "everyone is missing the point".

I got your point and the point you made is all about your values.

[greencharlie]

60. Well...

you're SURE missing the point. I've said that I think the intent and effect of the law is atrocious. I've said it several times here. But the worse thing is... it's probably legal. So stop attacking me. Sheeesh...

[billh58]

63. Which part of

the "intent" and "effect" of a law do you not understand? Are you an attorney? A Constitutional scholar? Why would you attempt to tell others that in your opinion this obscene "law" is anywhere close to being Constitutionally sound?

Some of the finest legal minds in the nation, along with those of us you include in your definition of "everyone," strongly disagree with you bubba...

[Cleita]

64. Everything Hitler did was legal. He kept

changing the laws to make sure what he did was legal. That is what is wrong with this law. We don't need fascism in our country no matter how legal it is.

[harun]

61. Fail, fascism is bad and you are not the judge of its Constitutionality.

[county worker]

66. People who are citizens of the United States of America will be forced to prove their

citizenship or be arrested for looking like an illegal alien. That is the effect of the law. That is wrong any way you look at it.

If you were made to carry around a birth certificate just in case a cop wanted to see it I think you would not support such a law, but since it does not harm you, you don't give a shit about others that will be harmed! Don't ask for whom the bell tolls!

[tekisui]

67. Bullshit apololgia. Get lost.