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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:07 PM
Original message
PBS American Experience: The My Lai Massacre
This showed for the first time tonight on PBS and its well worth watching. They had a lot of interviews with soldiers who were there and also with some survivors. I was a child in 1968 but I have no memory of hearing about it. What a terrible day it was.
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CAG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Couldn't take my eyes off of it.... it was riveting, disgusting, horrifying, etc.
Edited on Mon Apr-26-10 10:11 PM by CAG
....and I kept thinking that neocons and teabaggers would use this as an excuse for attacking public television for being anti-murkin and pinko-commie libruls for having the gall to tell the truth
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. That happened in 2004 - and it was the Republican party and corpmedia targeting Kerry for his role
in getting the truth to the American people about the atrocities being committed.

The LIARS and thugs who deny or excuse the atrocities finally had most of the presscorps under their control by 2004.

The Toledo Blade in early 2004 did a Pulitzer Prize winning story on another massacre that occurred back then, but, the rest of media ignored it in favor of pushing the lies of the Swifts to protect G aWol Bush.
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'll look for it.
Though I have a good memory of it.

Here's an excellent documentary from that time period. An award winning doc on the Weather Underground (radical anti-war activists).

This thing is really good:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6078589535743610981#
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. There was one hero that day - The late great Hugh Thompson, Jr
I'm Hugh Thompson. I was a helicopter pilot that day, and I guess I was invited here to tell you about a day of my life. That particular morning we were to provide reconnaissance for a ground operation that was going on in My Lai 4, which was better known to us as Pinkville." It was supposed to be a real big operation that day. I flew a Scout helicopter covered by two gunships that flew cover for me, and my job was to recon out in front of the friendly forces and draw fire, tell them where the enemy was, and let them take care of it.

The village was prepped with artillery prior to the assault, and we went in right when the "slicks" ---the troop-carrying aircraft that brought the Charlie company and Bravo company--- landed simultaneously right in front of them. We started mak ing our passes, and I thought it was gonna be real hot that day. The first thing we saw was a draft-age male running south out of the village with a weapon and I tol m to et him. He tried, but he was a new gunner--- he missed him. That was the only enemy person I saw that whole day.

We kept flying back and forth, reconning in front and in the rear, and it didn't take very long until we started noticing the large number of bodies everywhere. Everywhere we'd look, we'd see bodies. These were infants, two-, three-, four-, five-year-olds, women, very old men, no draft-age people whatsoever. That's what you look for, draft-age people. It came out in the interrogations that my crew and myself went through. My gunner's big questions---were, "Were there weapons that day?" There was not the first weapon captured, to my knowledge, that day. I think a count has been anywhere from two to four hundred, five hundred bodies--- it was that many. I think that's a small count, including the three villages that were hit.

As we were flying back around the civilian people, there was one lady on the side of the road, and we knew something was going wrong by then. Larry Colburn, my gunner, just motioned for her to stay down; she was kneeling on the side of the road. We just ordered her to stay down; we hovered around everywhere, looking, couldn't understand what was going on. We flew back over her a few minutes later and most of you all have probably seen that picture; she's got a coolie hat laying next to her. If you look real close, some odd object laying right next to her--- that's her brains. It's not pretty

We saw another lady that was wounded. We got on the radio and called for some help and marked her with smoke. A few minutes later up walks a captain, steps up to her, nudges her with his foot, steps back and blows her away.

We came across a ditch that had, I don't know, a lot of bodies in it, a lot of movement in it. I landed, asked a sergeant there if he could help them out, these wounded people down there. He said he'd help them out, help them out of their misery, I believe. I was . . . shocked, I guess, I don't know. I thought he was joking; I took it as a joke, I guess. We took off and broke away from them and my gunner, I guess it was, said, "My God, he's firing into the ditch." We'd asked for help twice, both times--- well actually, three times by then, I guess--- every time that people had been killed. We'd "help these people out" by asking for help.

Sometime later, we saw some people huddle in a bunker and the only thing I could see at that particular time was a woman, an old man, and a couple of kids standing next to it. We look over here and see them and look over there and see the friendly forces, so I landed the helicopter again. I didn't want there to be any confusion or something; I really don't know what was going on in my mind then.

I walked over to the ground units and said, "Hey, there's some civilians over here in this bunker. Can you get them out?" They said, "Well, we're gonna get them out with a hand grenade." I said, "Just hold your people right here please, I think I can do better." So I went over to the bunker and motioned for them to come out, everything was OK. At that time I didn't know what I was going to do, because there was more than three or four there, more like nine or ten or something like that. So I walked back over to the aircraft and kind of kept them around me and called the pilot that was flying the low gunship and said, "Hey, I got these people here down on the ground, and you all land and get them out of here." So he agreed to do that, which I think was the first time a gunship's ever been used for that. There's enough of them there that he had to make two trips and he picked them up and took them about ten miles or so behind the lines and dropped them off.

A short while later we went back to the ditch. There was still some movement in there. We got out of the aircraft and Androtta, my crew chief, walked down into the ditch. A few minutes later he came back up carrying a little kid. We didn't know what we were gonna do with this one either, but we all get back in the aircraft and figure we'd get him back to the orphanage or hospital back over at Quang Ngai. In examining him in the aircraft that day, the kid wasn't even wounded, or we didn't see any wounds, I'll put it that way. He was covered with blood, and the thought was going through my mind and my crew's mind, "How did these people get in that ditch?"

After coming up with about three scenarios, one of them being an artillery round hit them, you wipe that out of your mind 'cause every house in Vietnam, I think, has a bunker underneath it. If artillery was coming there, they would go to the bunker; they wouldn't go outside in the open area. Then I said, well, when artillery was coming, they were trying to leave and a round caught them in the ditch while they were going for cover. I threw that one out of my mind. Then something just sunk into me that these people were marched into that ditch and murdered. That was the only explanation that I could come up with.

Taking the child to the hospital was a day I'll never forget. It was a very sad day, very mad day, very frustrated and everything. So later in the afternoon, (this was brought up when everything hit and became public during interrogations, the Department of the Army IG was asking me about the incident and I had totally blocked it out of my mind. I had no idea what this guy was questioning me for), after the mission that day, I went back to our operations area, which is over in LC Dottie and I was very upset. I was very mad.

I reported to my platoon leader. He said let's go see the operations officer. In turn we went to our commander and the words were said for me that day that, you know, dean this up. "If this damn stuff is what's happening here," I told him, "You can take these wings right now 'cause they're only sewn on with thread." I was ready to quit flying.

My commander was very interested. Within a day or so--- I don't think it was that day, it was probably the next day--- we were called up to the command bunker at LC Dottie and everybody gave their statements. This was a full colonel (a full colonel is next to a general); that means he can walk on water. He was very interested it seemed; I remember him taking notes and that was it, I do believe. I don't know if I was called again to report to the commanding general.

There was one thing in my mind that I think, but I can't be positive. Our two units were like sixty miles away. So we didn't have contact with these ground people every day. A lot of people don't understand that sixty miles into Vietnam is a long way away You just don't go there. I guess I assumed something was being done. It wasn't a colonel's position to come down to a Wl and inform him of his investigation, that just was unheard of. It seemed like it was just dropped after that.

Approximately two years later is when it was broke publicly and that's when all the investigations started. I was called before the US Senate, the Department of the Army IG and for every one of the court-martial investigations. They appointed Lieutenant General Peers to investigate this. I honestly think the Army thought they had a 'yes-man' when they got Lieutenant General Peers and found out when he released his final report that he was not a "yes-man." I think he made a fairly accurate report of what happened that day.

I believe too, as everybody says, there was a cover-up and everybody's talked about that the cover-up started on the ground. In my mind, I'm not real sure that's where the cover-up started. I would not be the least bit surprised if this cover-up started "up" and worked its way all the way back down.

It was probably one of the saddest days of my life. I just could not believe that people could totally lose control and I've heard people say this happened all the time. I don't believe it. I'm not naive to understand that innocent civilians did get killed in Vietnam. I truly pray to God that My Lai was not an everyday occurrence. I don't know if anybody could keep their sanity if something like that happens all the time. I can see where four or five people get killed, something like that. But that was nothing like that, it was no accident whatsoever. Pure premeditated murder. And we're trained better than that and it's just not something you'd like to do.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. A great man.
He's the only thing that makes the story bearable.
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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Thompson died in the last few years. Would like to read more. Link?
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. In his own words
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkFa2lSNAGc

He was mad. He screamed. He cried. There was an investigation. He thought something was being done. It was a whitewash. Principled men like Thompson restore my faith in mankind. He was a person I would have desired to spend some quiet time with.

DemoTex posted some good links and memories of his genuine hero at the time of his death. I can't find those threads but they might be worth chasing down.


Here's the link I referenced:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/myl_hero.html
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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Thanks. So there was at least one man with morals and a conscience at My Lai.
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Two for sure. Ron Ridenhour, the lowly draftee enlisted man ridding shotgun with Thompson
got the ball rolling by writing a ton of letters to congress and brought the incident to public attention.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. I remember when the reports started coming out
And many people could not believe our troops would do such things. Up until then many in my small Florida hometown could not understand why anyone could be against the war. After, a few people began to see that the war was a bad thing. There was never much anti-war sentiment in that conservative community, but what little there was began then.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. If not for the photographer who was there to document it,
it would have taken even longer to get the truth out.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. i remember it like yesterday. bad year..martin luther king, bobby kennedy, my lai
shit was all over the fan
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The '60s were scary. nt
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. That was the event that started turning my parents into Democrats
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. LBJ was president when this happend.
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. The Nixon administration perpetuated the whitewash
Calley was the only one thrown under the bus, and his life sentence was commuted to twenty years, then ten years; they protected the Brass at all costs.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Johnson's administration initiated the whitewash and the
coverup.
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Indeed, LBJ's administration initiated it...
but Nixon's administration perpetuated the cover-up and would have succeeded had Seymour Hersh not broke the story nationally.

General Peers was appointed to conduct a thorough investigation into the My Lai incident and its subsequent cover-up. Peers' final report, published in March 1970, was highly critical of top officers for participation in a cover-up and the Charlie Company officers for their actions at My Lai, yet Calley, alone, took the fall.

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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. My parents had always been staunch Republican supporters, and for some time after
After the events of My Lai began to unfold, I remember them thinking how terrible war was (their exposure before was mostly thinking about WWII). It wasn't a night and day type turn around, just the first step.
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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Mine as well. And by the time the war dragged on and Tricky Dick was revealed to be
the scum he was, they had changed. That, and they had two sons who very well could have been caught up in the tragedy.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. What about te scum that got us in Viet nam.
What about the SOB in the White House that was ultimately responsible. The atrocity was committed while LBJ was the President. It was his and MacNamara's appointees that committed the crime then covered it up.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. My parents too
before that they had supported the war but after it came out they were repulsed. I remember my father actually cried and said how could anyone do that to others especially to little children. :cry:
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
10. You can watch it online at the PBS website
Which is a good thing because I missed the beginning and fell asleep during the trial of Lt. Calley.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Thanks for the remnder. I missed the top of the show, too. n/t
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. ttt
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. kick
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. How does My Lai differ from Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
After reading quite a bit about My Lai, and other wars in general, I started to wonder how really this is any different from dropping an atomic bomb on an entire population.

I don't mean in terms of how the individual soldiers behaved and what they did etc, but seriously, wiping out tens of thousands OF CIVILIANS seems to be an even greater tragedy. But somehow that was perceived as a "necessary evil" for some reason.

I hate war, I don't get it, not at all.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were very different.
What happened at My Lai was a war crime and unnecessary.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the best card in a bad hand. It was either use the bombs, invade and drown Japan in blood, blockade and starve millions or let the Russians invade. They made the best choice they could at the time. And the decision wasn't a war crime.
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Not from the perspective of the innocent civilians
I understand what you're saying, but I do not see the difference.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Innocent civilian is somewhat of a misnomer in modern warfare
Every warship, every aircraft, every round of ammunition, every artillery piece, every tank, every bayonet used by the Imperial Japanese Army or Navy
was manufactured by a civilian.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. The world hasn't seen total war since WWII.
All we've seen in our lives in limited and/or guerrilla conflict.

You're right, the Japanese civilians (Just like the American, German, Chinese, Russian, British, etc) were in the fight.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. To end a world war?
Yeah, there's a difference.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
27. Captain Medina ridiculed Calley, and made Calley want to "prove himself"
And when five hundred villagers were in Calley's path that day, he proved himself to be lacking in judgement. And bloodthirsty. Like a street gangster
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
31. My local PBS affiliate re-ran it at 3:30 A.M. and I could not sleep after viewing it.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-10 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
33. Will they mention Colin Powell's "investigation"?
Taping. Thanks for the heads up
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lxlxlxl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
36. oh my god...
this is horrible...finally got around to watching it
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