Why boycotting Arizona is a bad idea

[AzNick]

I truly believe that this State is slowly turning blue.

We're working on it.

But if you boycott our State, my feeling is that most of the jobs, mostly in tourism and services, will be likely for jobs hiring people with higher education or hiring more females, two demographics where democrats are in the majority.

Blue collar jobs are no more. There was a resurgence in blue collar jobs due to the construction bubble but a lot of the folks employed by this industry have moved out.

Just give us some time. To paraphrase somebody else: "Shut the f... up! We got it!"

[madinmaryland]

1. Does your state get it?

:shrug:

[AzNick]

2. Yes, most people here are appalled by the law

Even conservative friends of mine agree it's going too far.

Plus there are a lot less illegal workers than, again, during the construction bubble, as this industry was hiring a lot of them.

The White House has to also show it takes the issue very seriously and is ready to do something about the porosity of the border.

[Orrex]

3. Are you sure?

I heard that 70% of the AZ population supports it.


(Thanks to NB for confirming!

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. You heard right

[Orrex]

8. Really?

When I tried to find the article again, I couldn't.

Any suggestions?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Both Keith and Rachel covered it yesterday

that is where I heard it.

[Orrex]

11. Thanks!

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. And bellow Rasmussen

had it at 75, so shave 10, that still gives you 65

[dixiegrrrrl]

63. Lies, damn lies and stattistics:

They surveyed 500 people......500 only.

Look at their page...where they say that.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/arizona/toplines/toplines_arizona_immigration_law_april_14_2010

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

80. 500 people is a reasonable population for sampling.

Do you have a poll with a larger n that shows the opposite result?

[billh58]

85. A nationwide

poll usually only samples around 2,000 people, or so. Maybe you should do a little research on statistical sampling before discounting a poll result...?

[Codeine]

92. Sigh.

That's a perfectly useful sample for a result with a roughly 3% margin of error. That's how statistics work.

[Corey_Baker08]

39. wrong post! n/t

Thanks
Corey A Baker

[Orrex]

49. I resent that.

My post is always the right post.

[dixiegrrrrl]

62. They surveyed 500 people !!!!!

and 70% of the 500 said yes.

LOOK:

Arizona Survey of 500 Likely Voters

Conducted April 15, 2010

By Rasmussen Reports

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/arizona/toplines/toplines_arizona_immigration_law_april_14_2010

[harkadog]

5. Most people in the state support the law.

70% to 23% http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/arizona/70_of_arizona_voters_favor_new_state_measure_cracking_down_on_illegal_immigration

[AzNick]

6. Rasmussen...

Enough said.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. So shave ten percent off it

that is still most people by my poor attempt at math... or rather a healthy majority. There is a reason why civil rights should never be allowed a vote on... but at times they get around that with the legislatures.

[harkadog]

36. A common result when you don't like the results of a poll

Show a poll that you like that shows a different result.

[DesertFlower]

22. i live in arizona. no one asked me

what i think.

[SnakeEyes]

46. you weren't asked

But scientific sampling isn't nonsense either.

[jillan]

28. Bullshit - I bet you that most of the phone calls went out to certain zip codes, and mostly in

Maricopa County...Phoenix.

I haven't talked to one person yet who supports this law. Not one. Everyone is very upset.

[harkadog]

37. Then I'm sure you will be showing us a poll with the true result.

[azmouse]

54. Even the RWers I know are against this law.

[madinmaryland]

13. They are? Then why did it pass? EASILY??

[jillan]

31. The voters didn't vote for this. It was passed in the state congress.

It wasn't up for a vote.

[billh58]

86. Uh, isn't that

why it is called a representative form of government? Like it, or not, those Republicans are your representatives, and voted on your behalf if you're from their Districts. If you don't like how they vote, you can work to replace them.

[BlooInBloo]

17. Self-answering question, actually.

[TomCADem]

7. I Really Enjoyed Going To Baseball Spring Training In Arizona

But, what Arizona's legislators have done, and what its people support just sickens me. The racism inherent in the bill is obvious. However, what puzzles me is the notion of authorizing police to question people about their immigration status, and encourage police to demand ID. Quite frankly, the fact that there is this much racist animosity concerns me. Even worse is the fact that Arizona's politicans are so willing to stoke such hate. This goes far beyond simply recognizing MLK day as a holiday. This instutionalizes intolerance.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Look I understand your pain

but unfortunately people have little weapons at hand, and yes bigots, not you, only start to get it when they get slapped.

Will this more than hurt people? Sure it will... but this is the only tool we have. Actually this breaks a pattern, while the law itself IS PART of a nasty American Tradition

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8222999

[BlooInBloo]

15. Some time? It has been like 20 years since the MLK holiday thing. You want more time???

HAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[madinmaryland]

19. +1000

Though I don't really think it is funny.

[BlooInBloo]

20. Out of the various alternatives available to me at that moment....

laughing was the one with the fewest consequences.

[madinmaryland]

23. Yeah. What I find really fucked up is

that if Maryland elected Alan Keyes governor, I would be all over it here. I'm sorry, but if my state fucks up like that, then I will go full tilt against the state of Maryland.

If you overwhelming pass a law or elect someone, then you are stuck with the consequences. For god sake DU'ers in PA had to live with the insanity of Rick "man-on-dog" Santorum, but you didn't hear the whining from PA'ers.

[BlooInBloo]

24. Totally. Someone actually told me a day or so ago that I would feel differently if it were WA.

I was like "uh... NOT?".

:rofl:

Apparently to some, it being your own state is just more important that the evil of the law itself. (shrug)

[AzNick]

88. Rome was not built in a day and the LDS are a major political force

I think Flake is a nice dude but he's wrong on everything.

That's the type of people they are.

They are nice, decent people, but they are wrong.

[OHdem10]

16. Could it be all the dissing Obama, the overt racism not be called out

sent the message--the time is right to pass such a law.
In other words they might have misread the mood of the
country???

[madinmaryland]

18. Actually boycotting your state may be the best remedy of all. At least

it will get the attention of everyone in your state, namely those who think racism does not come without a price.

[saracat]

21. I also posted this yesterday Nick but some just wanna hate on something rather than doing

something constructive like helping us take the state back.

[Tarheel_Dem]

42. Perhaps you should move? Do you really want to live among racists & birthers?

Although they are one in the same. I'm just hoping that someone comes up with something that all of us can participate in, so that a nationwide boycott is felt by all of AZ.

[saracat]

48. I can't afford to move. Thanks to our commitments to running for office twice

we are depleted. I resent being told to utterly destroy myself and my family. We have little left enough. And thanks for the concern. I would love to move back east but I wouldn't be able to survive and we have no family to support or help us. So I guess we must stay and suffer as much as possible and take the consequences for actions we tried to prevent.

[Tarheel_Dem]

50. Ask the survivors of the Montgomery Bus boycotts about "suffering". You don't know "suffering".

I'm fortunate to still have relatives who were there, and have vivid memories of being attacked by police & rabid police dogs, and even losing their jobs for participating. You also have to remember that this isn't just about you & your family, it's much bigger than you. This is about shaming a state that has legislated racism and racial profiling into law. Good people will have to suffer right along with the bad, that's the way it's always been.

AZ must be shown that it is not a universe unto itself, and the best way to do that is for the other 49 states to isolate & contain the disease, before it spreads throughout the Union.

Follow the story of Prince William County. They did something similar, and have come to really regret it. You tell people they're not wanted, and guess what? THEY LEAVE. And along with them they take a huge chunk out of a community's economy. Restaurants close, housing values plummet, neighborhood stores have to cut staff because their traffic is severely decreased, people walk away from their mortgages, rental properties sit empty, and it ripples throughout the community's economy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/04/AR2007100402253.html?nav=rss_metro

I give it 6 mos., and your Chamber of Commerce will cry Uncle. Always hit' em in the pocketbook, and Repubs will come around every time.

[saracat]

52. Thanks for your compassion. We might not be able to survive another six months

but hey I guess I should be proud of possibly losing everything as long as it makes it better for others. Sorry but I am not Mother Thresa. And I don't think anyone has the right to be judegemental and demand that of others. As as for it not being about "me and my family". Yes it is. It is about a lot of me's and their families. And it really is unexceptable for anyone to decide that we get to sufferor to feel they have the right to determine or compare our degrees of suffering when there are legal and constitutional remedies being applied. Oh ,and the people that leave, as you pointed out, they take chunks of money with them that others don't have .They can afford to leave Most of us no longer can Or they have families who can help. Funny how compassion and principles seem to be accompanied by a price tag to some.

And exactly why have there been no boycotts for any of the other legislation anywhere that violates civil and human rights? What about Utah? They eneacted a bill that makes a misscarriage a crime but that only effectswomen so I guess it isn't worth a boycott? Shouldn't California have been boycotted because of prop 8? Oh wait, that only effects the GLBT community. I don't believe in hurting innocent victims in ANY state.

[Tarheel_Dem]

64. Here's wishing you don't "lose everything". But my compassion extends to

all of AZ, not just you. As for other boycotts, I can't answer your questions. I just know that as an African American, I can completely empathize with citizens being asked to show their papers, simply because they were born the "wrong" color.

If you want to boycott CA and UT, I say go for it. One injustice doesn't negate another. You can probably blame the media for the lack of outrage in CA & UT, because until you told me, I never heard of miscarriage being a criminal act.

[saracat]

66. I don't think anyone should have to show "papers". It is an outrage

but harming both the very people this affects the most as well as the people who are trying to overturn the legislation makes no sense to me.

[EFerrari]

67. The "very people this affects" called for a targeted boycott.

[treestar]

95. You're demanding that others help you take the state back

People outside the state! You're not offering to change the state yourself and telling us you're going to turn AZ blue. We're supposed to condone racism as they would make you feel better, while you admit you would never do the same if it weren't in your personal interests.

[EFerrari]

59. If the numbers came hard and fast enough, it would be even shorter than that.

[EFerrari]

53. Supporting the Latino community's boycott is not simply "hate"

no matter how many times you post that it is.

[billh58]

87. Something constructive?

Like what for instance? Maybe calling for a boycott of your renecked state and its racist Republican politicians? Or calling attention to the Birther Bill recently passed by these same bigoted asswipes?

Only Arizonians can elect the politicians who represent them, but when those elected representatives pass legislation that can potentially affect ANY US Citizen who happens to cross their borders, then it becomes a national matter. The only action a non-Arizonian can take is to call for redress through actions such as boycotts, and by shining as bright a light as possible on racists.

One of Arizona's native-born citizens taught millions of Americans that something as simple (and legal) as a boycott can be a powerful tool, and Cesar Chavez has always been one of our national heroes because of his leadership. On the other hand, Sheriff Joe, Jan Brewer, Arizona Republican State Legislators, and John McCain are shining examples of Constitution-bashing, un-American, bigots and racists.

Citizens from all across this country ARE "doing something constructive" by loudly voicing their opposition to the Jim Crow racist mindset of Arizona politicians, and apparently a majority of its citizens.

[Codeine]

25. Dude, your state heavily favors this racist law.

You own it. Deal with it.

[Nikki Stone1]

30. Then how about you help change that by supporting Arizona Dems

instead of just complaining?

[Codeine]

33. Arizona law is for Arizonans to fix. nt

[LooseWilly]

43. Maybe a boycott WILL support AZ dems...

If the Repubs cost AZ-ians money, maybe they'll vote dem.

I'm not holding my breath though... or spending any money in AZ for the nonce.

[soleiri]

26. I'd love to, but I can't.

As a Latina, I will not spend my money in a state that sees me and my family as second class citizens.

My only visit to Arizona will be to protest.

[Nikki Stone1]

29. Why not invest in the party that will overturn this law?

Why just protest?

[soleiri]

35. I suppose if I had unlimited funds I would.

Any political donation I make will probably go towards re-electing my own Senator, Barbara Boxer or Jerry Brown for Governor.

Also, I was addressing the issue of whether or not boycotting Arizona is appropriate.
I believe that it is.

[Nikki Stone1]

27. Recent stats show Democratic voters closing in on GOP voters: GOP: 1,137,262, Dems: 1,046,140

All totals:

AZ GOP, 1,137,262 voters; Democrats, 1,046,140; No Party, 880,128; Libertarians,20,256; Green, 4,210

Thanks to Saracat for these numbers.

[Codeine]

34. And it's clear many of those Ds support this law. nt

[AzNick]

89. You are wrong... Forget the Rasmussen poll

It's a tool poll designed to give Beck and Limbaugh some ammo

[EFerrari]

60. Imagiine what those numbers would do if Latino voting rights were secure.

[fishwax]

32. according to the numbers I've seen, the public in AZ supports the law

including a majority of republicans and independents and about half of democratic voters in the state. It's Rasmussen, so, as folks have said upthread, it perhaps ought be taken with a grain of salt, but even so it's far from clear that the people of your state have "got it."

I hope you're right, though, and that the democrats can make a major move this fall.

And then get rid of this law.

[Desertrose]

38. No one I've spoken to here supports it. n/t

[EFerrari]

56. The two issues are twined. Voter disenfranchisement of Latinos

mean fewer voting Democrats.

[otohara]

40. It Worked When AZ Refused to Recognize MLK Day

they came around after years of being boycotted by AA's.

[SnakeEyes]

47. But the actions of Az regarding MLK Day were massively unpopular.

[donheld]

41. cuz u live there?

[RandomThoughts]

44. That is a Red Dawn quote.

Reason for why Patrick Swayze did what they did.



Well because of the pro business profit motive immigration policies, guess what.

The illegals live there also.

[onestepforward]

45. I feel your pain.

I would be honored to make a donation to an Arizona Dem. Could you tell me who might need a little help right now? Hang in there!
:hug:

[mkultra]

51. yeah, fuck that. A loss in tourism money is the perfect way to send a message

your best bet is to be vocal now about that possibility.

[Nikki Stone1]

68. Well, who has the money right now to spend on tourism?

Send MONEY to these DEMOCRATS running:

$$$$$$$$$$$$

Andrei Cherny for TREASURER

http://www.andreiforarizona.com /


Felicia Rotellini for ATTORNEY GENERAL

http://www.feleciaforarizona.com /


Sam Wercinski for SECRETARY OF STATE

https://www.sam4az.com /

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

OFFER TO HELP:


GODDARD, TERRY (Democrat)
PO Box 1792
Phoenix, AZ 85001
Telephone: [phone]
Filerid: 201000311

Send him (non money) help, NOW.

Here is his website: http://www.terrygoddard.com /

Here is some info about him: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Terry_Goddard

[ecstatic]

70. A lot of people actually. Traveling doesn't cost that much

I've been on vacation several times over the past year and each place I've gone to was PACKED!

[Nikki Stone1]

74. Wow, you have more money than I do.

I haven't had a vacation in 3 years.

[ecstatic]

82. If you know how to work the time share spots, you can vacation

quite cheaply ($100-200).

[Nikki Stone1]

83. Time share spots?

?

[Iggo]

55. It's bad for Arizona...but that's the point.

[Nikki Stone1]

69. You either are a part of the solution or part of the problem.

Send MONEY to these DEMOCRATS running:

$$$$$$$$$$$$

Andrei Cherny for TREASURER

http://www.andreiforarizona.com /


Felicia Rotellini for ATTORNEY GENERAL

http://www.feleciaforarizona.com /


Sam Wercinski for SECRETARY OF STATE

https://www.sam4az.com /

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

OFFER TO HELP:


GODDARD, TERRY (Democrat)
PO Box 1792
Phoenix, AZ 85001
Telephone: [phone]
Filerid: 201000311

Send him (non money) help, NOW.

Here is his website: http://www.terrygoddard.com /

Here is some info about him: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Terry_Goddard

[Iggo]

71. I'm donating...and I'm boycotting.

I'm part of two solutions.

[Nikki Stone1]

73. 1 solution, and 1 footstomping

Thanks for sending the $$

[EFerrari]

76. Do you know what brought the Apartheid government down?

That "footstomping" worked very well.

Now can I say that you are disrespecting the boycott? Yes, I can.

[Nikki Stone1]

77. Actually other things came into play with South Africa

World Bank for one.

However, I do support targeted boycotts. This AZ thing just seems to be all over the place and, yes, it does seem like footstomping to me. Not disrespecting well-planned boycotts in general.

[EFerrari]

94. Nikki, consider this.

This boycott, as you know, is just ramping up so, of course, it's all over the place. It will settle down and focus on the biggest targets. That's how these things work.

That is what this will resolve to, if I'm not mistaken. But this is certainly no time to tell people to back off a boycott that is still being formulated. A rapid response may be the best thing for AZ business people and wage earners in the long run, imo.

[Iggo]

84. EDIT

PEACE

[treestar]

96. These are progressives, right, not blue dogs?

having read millions of DU posts threatening to primary such, now maybe, in AZ, we can be happy with blue dogs?

Amusing that out of staters have to give money, what about their own state elections? Will you be helping those?

[EFerrari]

57. When community workers and journalists and human rights activists

heard that the rest of Latin America was going to embargo Honduras during the coup, they all supported that embargo. Because that is the only thing these people understand, their wallets.

[workinclasszero]

58. Arizona's new state song...Arizona uber allles

No I think the 70% of police-state loving Arizona citizens that support YOUR PAPERS PLEASE! need a swift kick in the nads.

I think an international economic boycott will do the trick!:spank:

[mdmc]

61. I would never go there..

but I have no reason to go there..

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

65. you most certainly do NOT "got it"

at all....

[mod mom]

72. Hit the GOP lawmakers where it hurts: their almighty $ then see how quickly they have a change

of heart.

[JonLP24]

75. Exactly

We elected Janet Napolitano who would have vetoed this bill. Jan Brewer was appointed through a line of succession since she was chosen to lead Department of Homeland Security.

[Xenotime]

78. Sorry. Your state openly supports racism. I can't help you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

79. Do you have the documentation that proves the boycott is a bad idea?

Papers, please.

[billh58]

81. A call to oppose

a much-needed boycott from the birthplace of Cesar Chavez? Sorry, but "slowly turning blue" is no defense against the immediate threat of racial-profiling and bigotry from the majority of Arizona's elected politicians, the police forces, and from all appearances a large section of the rednecked population.

Do you really believe that Arizona Hispanics should just be patient and wait for some sort of a miracle? Should they believe in more promises of future redress, while suffering NOW from Republican racist actions?

Please keep trying to turn Arizona blue, but this bigoted law is already giving other Republican state representatives the courage to call for similar racism in their states. This has become a national problem, and we will NOT "shut the fuck up" while people like Sheriff Joe and Jan Brewer remain in positions of influence and power.

Oh, and thanks again for McCain, who brings a large dose of hatred, redneckery, and neoconservatism to our national political discourse. At present, Arizona is an embarrassment to, and a giant boil on the ass of, the United States of America.

[AzNick]

90. Terry Goddard Leads Jan Brewer In Arizona Gov's Race

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/27/terry-goddard-pulls-ahead_n_553823.html

[TwilightGardener]

91. Having lived in various red states for many years...

sorry, can't help ya. People have a right to "vote" with their tourism dollars. It's all fair.

[BlooInBloo]

93. How do you explain the 11 point swing to Brewer by white Arizonans since she bill signing?