Do we want a national ID (citizenship) card or not?

[pampango]

A national ID could be just an enhanced drivers license which requires proof of citizenship or legal residency which most states do already. We could just have 50 versions of a national ID if we require states to obtain and verify the same information or we could combine them into a single national ID. Either way you would functionally have a national ID/citizenship card system.

This would make it much easier for Arizona, other states that may follow its lead, and ICE to find and identify illegal immigrants. I suppose you would have to mandate that people be in possession of the ID subject to detention until it is produced with police having some latitude, as they do with most crimes, with respect to how strictly they enforce such a law.

[stray cat]

1. I have a driver's license I use for an ID - it is recognized anywhere in the US

to get a job I have to show my SS card and birth certificate or driver's license. It would be easier to just show them a national license with a check saying I was legally able to work

[ixion]

2. No. Never. Hell No!

Needs to be an option.

[old mark]

3. NO!!! nt

[timtom]

4. Oh, F*** NO!

(Sorry for the caps.)

[Deep13]

5. It would be better if we were tatooed with bar codes and given tracking implants.

Otherwise, it's a Hitlerrific idea!

[Statistical]

10. So all of Europe today is run by fascists? n/t

[Deep13]

11. Your segue gave me whiplash.

What about Europe?

[Statistical]

12. National ID cards have existed in Europe for decades.

Very useful for ensuring people there are who they say they are, have right to work, and leave when temporary status ends.

We have ID in this country. Not having a national ID doesn't make Identification go away. It simply fragments it and allows fraud to be pervasive.

Some states have very advanced ID with digital information, and verification in database. However some states still have a paper ID in a laminated pouch. Since ID from one states must be accepted in all states the fraud flows to the least common denominator. It really makes no sense for Virginia to invest in ID that are harder to counterfeit if they have to accept easily counterfeited ID from North Carolina for example.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Maybe They Should Put Chips In Us Like Dogs So The Government Can Track Our Every Move

Get out of here.

[SoCalDem]

7. Without one, we will never have any chance at "legit" elections and

any real form of national/universal/single-payer health care.

It just is what it is..

Being entitled to something requires identification..it's just that simple..

Try walking into a gym and refusing to show ID..they will show you the door

Try going to the doctor and insisting on paying only the $20 co-pay...but refusing to show a medical insurance card

ID is an integral part of a society. Small family groups recognize you because they KNOW you and recognize you as family, but as you leave the smaller groups and move into general society, people don;t "know" you, and will ask for ID so you can prove that you "belong".


All the libertarian Greta Garbo wannabees are deluding themselves about ID to start with.

Anyone who has ever had a charge account, gone to school, gone to a doctor, had an internet account, bought anything with a credit card, had a car loan, school loan, home loan already has a shit-load of information "out there" on them, and it will remain there FOREVER. I guess they can just be stubborn and deny themselves two of the really important "entitlements" around.. voting & health care..

No worry though.. neither of these will happen until the Boomers have passed on.. There are just too damned many of us, and the powers that be are waiting us out:)

[pampango]

20. Most of us are used to having to present an ID in order to do "something". We're just not used to

an ID requirement when we're doing "nothing" - taking a walk, working in the yard, watching TV, etc.

My understanding of your argument is that even when we're doing "nothing", we still need to have a reliable way to show that we're entitled to health care (just in case) and the benefits that come from an honest voting system. As society gets bigger and more complex (as we "leave the smaller groups and move into general society, people don't "know" you, and will ask for ID so you can prove that you "belong"), it does make more sense than it would have 100 or 200 years ago to require some type of common ID.

On one level that makes sense to me. Needing a commonly-acceptable ID to avail of a variety of services, not limited to voting and health care, makes sense. Providers need a way to know that I am me, not my brother or my neighbor. European countries provide a lot of services and benefits to their people and most, if not all, of those countries have national ID's. I'm not sure if Canada and Australia require such ID's, but would be interested to know.

On another level a requirement to actually carry an ID with me at all times and produce it, even when I'm doing "nothing", to prove I "belong", goes against my grain. Proving that I am me to get a job or for the sake of obtaining some product or service or government benefit makes sense, but having to constantly have papers with me that prove that I "belong" too far. Maybe it is, as you say, a function of being a baby-boomer and the environment we grew up in. Every generation grows up in a "different" world and has different attitudes than the ones that came before it. Perhaps the American resistance to the concept of a national ID will change when younger generations take over.

[izquierdista]

8. What's unfortunate about it?

Most other civilized countries have standardized their identity documents. Oh right, most other civilized countries provide health care for their citizens too (not mandate paying into some insurance fraud).

[Statistical]

9. Every European country has had ID cards for decades.

Pretty simple concept. Everyone has an ID card.





Citizens have an ID card.
Permanent Residents haven ID card.
Temporary Residents have an ID card (which shows status - student, work, etc and expiration).

Visitors (tourists for example) have no ID card issues however you are required to have proof of Identity from host nation (usually passport) and a visa to clear airport customs.

If card clearly showed working status it could be used to combat corporations who hire illegal immigrants which displace American workers and drive down wages. The current SS card is so easy to forge. I mean it is a paper card. Friggin paper card. My MVP card for Food Lion (grocery store) is far more tamper resistant.

National ID card. Fine employers who hire people without national ID card. Multiple offenses and the hiring person goes to jail.

[hayu_lol]

16. Actually, we already have one if you need one...

it is called...a passport.

[Statistical]

18. What is the difference between a passport and national ID?

Nothing except that ID card is more convenient form. Most Europeans have passport and national ID.

"if you need one"
That is the point. The current hodgepodge of various state ID, standards, and required documents makes a system in which the whole system is only as good as the weakest link. There is no reason for one state with to improve standards because counterfeiters will simply obtain ID for people here illegally via a "weak state".

[rucky]

13. I can prove I was born.

I don't see why it's such a big deal to have to prove where.

If people come to this country to work illegally, there are laws on the books that cover that.
If people come to this country with unlawful intentions, there are laws on the books that cover that (the penal code).

If people are truly innocent until proven guilty, I don't see the need for "papers please".

[Romulox]

14. The OP's issue is cheap labor, not civil liberties.

Ever see the OP decrying the drug war, or the Patriot Act? :hi:

[Statistical]

17. Cheap Illegal labor has put downward pressure on American wages.

The current system is far to easily counterfeited.

[Romulox]

19. The OP has formulated an ideology whereby punishing the US middle class is penance

for the sins of the US rich. Therefore, her form of laissez-faire economics is ultimately "progressive", even if the earlier rhetoric about lifting up the workers of the third world and free trade causing democracy to flourish in China has been utterly falsified.

She also claims that "free trade" prevents wars (the two wars the US are in notwithstanding,) and that the EU is the economic model for the US to follow (Greece's collapse notwithstanding.) Any way you slice it, civil liberties are not the focus of the OP's activities here!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

15. I thought the whole 'REAL ID' thing did just that? n/t