"I believe every woman should carry every pregnancy to full term."

[davsand]

The executive summary of what a substitute teacher taught in my 13 year old daughter's science class yesterday...


:banghead:


I have already called the Principal, the district administrator, and the regular science teacher. Is it too much to ask that the freaking school stay out of that particular moral discussion? Is it too much to expect that when the assholes DO insert themselves into this stuff that they at least present a balanced perspective with some sensitivity to other views???

My kid was the only one in her class that stuck her hand up when the "teacher" asked who supported abortion. How f***ing painful is that? My kid was on the picket line with me when we campaigned for EC availability here in Illinois. She has her own views on the subject of choice and I am incredibly proud of her for standing her ground yesterday in the face of supreme adult stupidity.



Laura

[SocialistLez]

1. Kudos to your daughter!

Screw that ignorant substitute.

I hope she is terminated.

[ladywnch]

90. ditto! you go girl! :-)

[freethinker2]

126. Its them pesky rite wing Christians again!

Bunch of morons. They wont be happy till we are all mentally deluded like they are.

[JitterbugPerfume]

2. Good grief Laura

That is awful! Good for Material Girl for standing up to her.

[ShortnFiery]

3. Two words: Ectopic Pregnancy.

Idiots! :crazy: :thumbsdown:

http://kidshealth.org/parent/pregnancy_newborn/pregnancy/ectopic.html

[jgraz]

13. That's just Jeebus punishing you for having ESS EEE EKS

Deal with it, slut.


(Yes, :sarcasm:)

[Occulus]

25. Two more words: stone babies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithopedion

[ShortnFiery]

50. I "buzz in a second time: spontaneous abortion

The above quote is from a Science Teacher. :crazy:

http://www.medicinenet.com/miscarriage/article.htm

[soleiri]

100. two more words:

Awoman'sfreakingbodyandherfreakingchoice dumbasspukes.

[BlueIris]

48. Two (or three) more words: Rape and incest victims.

I've got a lot more words than that, but what disturbs me most about this situation is that the opinion expressed by that "teacher" is not a mainstream one. At all. And if it were written into law, the social consequences to women and their families would be extreme. Such extremity of opinion, let alone expressed opinion, has no place in a secondary school classroom.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

113. Why does everybody always list "incest" as an important exception?

I get why people always say the first one - rape - because the mother does not consent to having a child, and that takes away the pro-lifer's argument that the situation is her own fault (though the argument that she did something to deserve being raped is often not far behind.) But I'm not familiar with the logic behind saying abortion of children of incestuous congress is morally distinct from abortion of "normally" conceived child. Mind you, I'm not saying I'm in favor of incest (I don't feel too strongly about it one way or the other.) I'm just not familiar with the reasoning that makes an otherwise objectionable abortion okay.

[seabeyond]

115. nope, doesn't work for me. i make them say it is murder. then have them clarify

rape, health and incest. then ask them how they validate murder in some cases? if you think it is murder then it is no abortion, or.... it is merely punishment for perceived promiscuity.

otherwise

hypocrite

[Autonomy]

118. I think 'incest' in this context refers to an underage daughter

which adds incest taboo to rape, making it doubly repugnant, and one in which the offspring is at greater health risk.

[sybylla]

133. I went to school with a girl who got pregnant at 13 by her uncle

She carried the baby to term and gave it up for adoption. But the whole school knew the story for the duration of the pregnancy and all the years afterward until her accidental death in high school.

I wouldn't ever let a 13 year old girl go through that if I had any say.

Incest is on the list because the victims are entirely too young to cope with what has happened to them, let alone piling a pregnancy on top of it.

And that's assuming pregnancy is a bloody fucking cake walk. Only those who have never experienced one would say that.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

146. Not too sure about that.

Incest covers far more than a non-consensual father-daughter relationship, and in this context that situation is easily covered by the previously mentioned "rape." To me, mentioning two different scenarios means the two are seen as distinct. The only way for that to make sense is if the speaker is saying he or she is in favor of abortion only is cases of both incest and rape, at the same time. What's more, if the concern is genetic deformity, it would be more precise to say "cases of rape and genetic deformity," because not all genetic deformity is the result of incest, and not all incest result in genetic deformity. Also, there are others, like Sean Hannity, is are not in favor of allowing abortion in cases of known genetic deformity, so his stated support of exception for incest is for some other reason (though admittedly, not likely a good one.)

[Autonomy]

150. You seem to be over-thinking it

everyone else seems to get it intuitively. One is bad, the other is worse by *inclusion* of the first + an exacerbating circumstance worth mentioning.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

153. Oh, so we're saying

that "incest" is a particularly heinous subset to "rape," and requires special mention. I get that.

[Autonomy]

155. Yeah, that's how I take it

It especially modifies the subset of rape: "statutory rape", when the victim is over 14-ish (depending on state law) but under 18, and distinguishes it from a more normal 'boyfriend-girlfriend', consentual-but-illegal relationship. Adding "incest" to that crime indicates a very abnormal upbringing with a likely history of abuse and coercion.

[inna]

121. ???

[Liberty Belle]

124. inbreeding (incest) is more apt to produce a child with serious genetic problems

which is why in most states it is not legal to marry a first cousin, let alone a closer relation.

[okieinpain]

141. well in oklahoma it's now ok for the doctor to NOT tell you that

your fetus has serious genetic problems, and allow you to carry the fetus to full term. hows that for a Doctor Moreau island.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

147. Only very slightly.

In order for that to be a serious concern, you need more than one generation of inbreeding, like the Romanovs or the ancient Egyptians. If the concern was genetic malformation, it would make more sense to say, "cases of rape or genetic malformation."

[BlancheSplanchnik]

132. the mother does not consent to having a child. Incest IS rape.

an incested child is not a consenting participant in sex.

The parent is committing rape, even if it is rape disguised by psychological and emotional manipulation over time.

I don't get what you don't get about this :shrug:

[ChadwickHenryWard]

148. "Incest" covers more than just

a non-consensual father-daughter relationship. Incest could refer to a mother-son relationship, or a brother-sister relationship, or a father-daughter relationship between two consenting adults. Further, what you have described falls easily under the category of "rape," and doesn't need to be mentioned as distinct from rape.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

152. that's what i was getting at.

:thumbsup:

[ChadwickHenryWard]

154. Excellent.

[NewJeffCT]

134. Children conceived via incest are far more likely to have genetic problems

and, it's illegal in every state, I believe.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

149. Only very slightly.

It takes more than one generation of inbreeding for a significant risk of genetic deformity to occur. Think of the increased occurrence of Tay-Sachs disease among the Amish and the Ashkenazic Jews. These are communities that have been closely interbreeding for centuries, and both include descendants of a single man or woman who first had the mutation somewhere in Eastern Europe many years ago. That man or woman's first generation of descendants all had a 50/50 chance of having the mutation. So, it would have been a very bad idea for any of them to breed incestuously. But for any given genetic deformity, there is a much smaller chance that 50/50 that you or your siblings have it, unless you already know that one or both of your parents have it. Also, if genetic deformity is the concern, why not say, "in cases or rape or genetic deformity?" Congenital birth defects do not always result from incest, and incest does not always result in genetic deformity.

[ChickMagic]

145. Re: negative biology of incest (for ChadwickHenryWard)

Having such a limited gene pool makes for more hereditary diseases (see hemophilia in
monarchies) and below average intellegent children (also see monarchies). In many cases incest is also inbreeding. Inbreeding leads to a higher proportion of congenital birth defects through an increase in the frequency of homozygotes. (Livingstone, FB (1969). "Genetics, Ecology, and the Origins of Incest and Exogamy". Current Anthropology 10: 45–62. doi:10.1086/201009.)

The effects of this can diverge - recessive genes that produce birth defects could become more frequent, resulting in a higher rate potential of these defects while genes that do not code for birth defects can become increased within a population.

The overall consequences of this divergence depends in part on the size of the population. In small populations, if children born with heritable birth defects die before they reproduce the ultimate effect of inbreeding will be to decrease the frequency of defective genes in the population with an overall decrease in the number of birth defect-causing genes over time. In larger populations it is more likely that large numbers of carriers will survive and mate, leading to more constant rates of birth defects.(Thornhill, Nancy Wilmsen (1993). The Natural history of inbreeding and outbreeding: theoretical and empirical perspectives. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. ISBN 0-226-79854-2. http://books.google.com/booksid=ZFXYeHxwD10C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0.)

A 1994 study found a mean excess mortality with inbreeding at the first cousin level of 4.4%. (Bittles, A.H. (2001). A Background Background Summary of Consaguineous marriage. consang.net. http://www.consang.net/images/d/dd/01AHBWeb3.pdf. Retrieved 2010 , citing Bittles, A.H.; Neel, J.V. (1994). "The costs of human inbreeding and their implications for variation at the DNA level". Nature Genetics (8): 117–121.)

At any rate,the degenerative effects of inbreeding will only be significantly fatal after more than two or more repeated incest cases, and that varies depending on the number and quality of inherited congenital disorders of which the family members may be carriers.

Research indicates that 46% of children who are raped are victims of family members.(Langan and Harlow, 1994) The majority of American rape victims (61%) are raped before the age of 18; furthermore, 29% of all forcible rapes occurred when the victim was less than 11 years old. 11% of rape victims are raped by their fathers or step-fathers, and another 16% are raped by other relatives. (National Center for Victims of Crime and Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center. National Center for Victims of Crime. 1992.)

http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32360.

[nickinSTL]

99. yeah - and you know, they think the same there

I remember a few years ago when (ok, revealing how much I pay attention to pointless stuff) Sophie, Countess of Wessex (wife of Queen Elizabeth's youngest son) went into emergency surgery to terminate an ectopic pregnancy.

There were actually people saying she shouldn't have had the pregnancy terminated. :wtf:

I can only hope they were too ignorant to realize that not terminating would have killed her, but I suspect that might not be the case. :mad:

[mwooldri]

142. More words:

The individual who is pregnant gets to decide what "full term" is. Also if there is an immediate risk of the pregnant individual dying, then best to terminate rather than kill both the foetus and the parent.

Mark.

[la_chupa]

4. why would that even come up in class? n/t

[davsand]

11. I asked that same question.

They just took a test on plants and are waiting to get their grades. I have NO freaking idea what prompted that discussion, and nobody at the school (that I could talk to, anyway...) could give me any reason why the subject would come up.

My comment was that IF they were headed into a chapter on human reproduction that I hoped they at least could manage something better than the old cabbage patch/stork crap. There was dead silence when I made that comment.

My guess is (knowing some of the other parents in that class) the school is gonna hear about this one from both sides of the issue.



Laura

[WinkyDink]

35. Key word: "substitute."

[lunasun]

112. Will most likely believes in creationism too, but

really, students should not have to hear what a teacher believes, only what they were PAID to teach!

[ejpoeta]

5. what would this person or any other say to asking them if they are willing to financially

support that child? are they willing to pay their hospital bills? for their food and diapers. are they willing to support all these kids!!! i bet most would say no.

[AnArmyVeteran]

22. I find that those who are the most pious to be the biggest hypocrites...

Religious right people couldn't care less about anyone after they squirm out of a woman's womb. After that they are on their own. Conservative Christians whine and protest if they believe any federal money is going to fund an abortion, regardless of the circumstances, but they seemingly cheer on massive government spending on wars, killing and destruction. I haven't heard one conservative Christian protesting against Bush lying our country into war and the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis and 5,000 American soldiers. Once out of the womb conservative 'Christians' couldn't care less about people.

I know several conservative Christians and they are the worst people I know. I firmly believe no one can be a conservative extremist and a practicing Christian at the same time. They are exact opposites.

[Hepburn]

27. The biggest POS I have encountered in the last 10 years...

...Ms Pious Born again POS.

I cannot begin to list all of the crap she has done to others ~~ friends, family, neighbors, strangers, etc. The last bullshit sleeze stunt? She hid the death of her husband from the husband's only daughter, her step daughter, and then when the daughter found out her dad had died...the POS told her that there was no funeral when there really was one planned. At the service? The POS said the daughter did not care enough to attend. The dad and the daughter had been extremely close the POS was so jealous of this relationship, it was off the charts. So, she used the death of the dad to make the daughter look like a horrible person.

:grr:

And this POS is a born again who loves Jeebus....:puke:

[AnArmyVeteran]

31. Isn't it odd that those who profess to be so 'Christian' are so filled with hate?

Your story describes my evil older sister exactly. When my favorite uncle passed away I never heard about it. My sister knew how much I loved Uncle Vic, but she didn't even call to tell me when the services were. I didn't find out he passed away until almost a year later. She is a 'good' Christian and extremely conservative. I know there are actual good 'Christians' out there, but I would ALWAYS take my chances with a non-Christian over a christian any day. I've been to many different Christian brand churches and found the common thread with all of them is blatant hypocrisy.

Side story: A family I know went to the same church for 40 years. The mother and father spent many days a week volunteering for the church. Their father passed away a few years ago and now when the mother needs help their church turned their back on them and offered no help whatsoever. They have been going to the Church of Christ church, but now stopped going because of how betrayed they were by the soulless, compassionless thugs who run that church...

[Hepburn]

39. Yep...

...it seems that they are the worst kind. IMO, must have something to do with being forgiven. That way, one can do the WORST possible shit and get a free pass from Jeebus. Just as for forgiveness. What bullshit.

There is a POS in my family ~~ by marriage ~~ and the witch tried to get my dad's will after he died and change it. And, of course, she is a "good" Catholic. She almost got away with it until I caught her. And...the witch against my dad's wishes had him baptized as a fucking Catholic on his death bed. Made my skin crawl when I found this out.

:grr:

But, but, she is a good Christian...:puke:

[AnArmyVeteran]

43. Mormons can convert you after you die!!!

The Mormons have a ritual where they can get you after you die to convert you to their church. It has to be done at their mother church in Utah. So even if you think you made it safely through life as a non-Mormon they can still get you. Spooky....

[elehhhhna]

69. Mormons have WEDDINGS for dead women. Jewish women, even!

Cuz we gals can't get to heaven unless we're married to a Mormon. Even if we're both long dead.

A friend was invited to her DEAD GRANDMA's wedding into Mormonism. This friend asked her husband to marry her up w/ Robert Redford while they were at it.

[uppityperson]

80. They may try, but I'm not going to what they believe in.

They may try, they can do their after death thing but doesn't mean it has any hold over me unless I let it.

[AnArmyVeteran]

119. Tell their ghosts to go screw themselves!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

135. wouldn't that mean they'd have to go to the dead baby shower?

:crazy:

[ejpoeta]

41. i believe in god. and i believe that all these 'christians' will have a rude awakening

when it is their time to meet their maker. whenever someone gets caught doing something wrong you always here how they couldn't have done it because they are good christians... churchgoing.... yada yada. ... that means nothing to me. while there are many good folks out there who go to church, there are many who shout the loudest and are the least christian folk i have ever met.

[AnArmyVeteran]

44. If Bush, Robertson, Cheney & religious right go in one direction, I want to go in another!

I would consider it HELL to have to spend the rest of eternity with the likes of soulless, hateful hypocrites like are found in the conservative movement.

[hamsterjill]

71. Well said!

I, too, believe in God, and I think you are absolutely correct. The ones who scream at the top of their lungs about how "Christian" they are, are normally the ones trying to convince themselves.

To me, the first trait that a true Christian must have is compassion.

[AnArmyVeteran]

74. Absolutely & when republicans called themselves "compassionate conservatives' you know it was a lie!

It's like used car dealers calling themselves 'Honest Jacks Autos'. You know if someone has to preface their name with an positive sounding adjective you can count on it being untrue. There was absolutely NOTHING compassionate about 'compassionate conservatives'. They were just the opposite. No one can be a conservative extremist and a practicing Christian at the same time. They are polar opposites of each other. Conservatives even laugh at those who are compassionate, calling them touchy-feely or other derogatory words.

I agree with you, without compassion no one can be a true Christian. Glenn Beck has been attacking 'social justice', even telling members of churches to leave their churches if they see any sign of social justice in them. Well, if Beck was talking to Christians then they needed to look no further than their Bibles for references to 'social justice'. There are over 2000 references to 'social justice' in the Bible, so that must mean that Beck has never read the Bible and is just another fake Christian, or he has no clue what Jesus taught or the meaning of what he read, making him completely stupid.

[demigoddess]

92. I have thought the same thing. I want to be a fly on the wall when they get to

st peter's pearly gates. Do you think God spanks all the fundamentalists at the gates of heaven??

[Caretha]

110. I don't think he spanks them

I think he says...you get to start all over again, but this time you will do it as a flea bitten hyena.

[okieinpain]

143. are you kidding most of them are going to die when jesus

comes back and he's not blonde and blue eyed.

[YOY]

77. Lemme guess Hep. A world class fuck-up before (and after) she found Jebus?

Every born-again I ever knew was "addicted" to something before they were addicted to Jebus.

Sex, drugs, booze, having sex while boozed and drugged up, etc... It's like the person who goes to a party where everyone is having a good time with a few drinks and a little weed then does coke in the bathroom and ends up fucking some person they just met in the hosts bedroom. The next morning they act like everyone was doing as much as they did and everyone needs to repent.

[wolfgangmo]

86. Did the POS kill her husband?

Just askin.

[moc]

6. I'm appalled. What response did you receive from the administrators?

In my opinion, that substitute should be relieved of all such future duties.

[davsand]

18. "Sorry you are upset" seems to be the main theme here.

I knew this was a pretty conservative bunch running things, so I can't say I am shocked, really. Horrified, absolutely, shocked--not so much.

We are viewed as being the resident lefties in most things, and our daughter has been pretty staunch in her willingness to stand up for her opinions. She wears labor t-shirts to school along with teeshirts from various social justice organizations. Her dad and I both are out front in the community as politicians and Labor activists and we have worked hard at presenting her with not just our own views but also those of the people we disagree with. She is no parrot--my kid actually thinks about this stuff and is able to debate it.

I just can't believe that anyone would even venture NEAR the "third rail" of abortion in a Jr High setting. Kids are not unaware of the issue, but jeesh, don't you at least owe it to them to present the issue in a balanced way???



Laura

[moc]

49. That is awful. I have a 13yo daughter as well and also live in a very conservative

area. However, if this were EVER brought up in my daughter's middle school, you don't even want to know how quickly the shit would hit the fan around here. Seriously, I'd sue the hell out of the school if I had to. It's unacceptable on so many different levels.

[seabeyond]

52. your 13 yr old daughter is not in sex ed classes? nt

[moc]

56. Where did I say she wasn't in sex ed?

I said I would be appalled if her teacher asked who supported abortion rights.

[seabeyond]

57. then they should have had discussion on abortion and so much more.

did i misread somewhere.

[moc]

58. You need to get a clue.

For what it's worth, I'm in public health (maternal and child health) and very well versed in what is age appropriate for sex education for middle school. Espousing personal beliefs about pregnancy termination is so outside the realm of what is appropriate at that age, it's laughable.

Seriously, get a grip. This isn't about sex education and making sure our daughters are knowledgeable.

[seabeyond]

64. grip on... reality. that is what is being discussed. that and so much more

i would prefer my 12 yr old not having visuals of date rape either. but it is there.

[Jade Fox]

107. Sorry is hardly the point

The teacher was indoctrinating the children to her political views.

You should talk to her boss, whoever that is. The school district?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

139. I love you and your family!

I love that you're active together for the REAL truth, real ethics...
and that your daughteer has that courage and understanding too?? And can stand up on her own for what's right??

I love you guys!! :D

[BlancheSplanchnik]

140. I love you and your family!

I love that you're active together for the REAL truth, real ethics...
and that your daughteer has that courage and understanding too?? And can stand up on her own for what's right??

I love you guys!! :D

[sandnsea]

7. My son's said it was like Roman infanticide

The teacher's view was so extreme it instantly made my son pro-choice for life. The couple of nutball teachers he had did more to turn him off right wing loons than anything I ever said.

[proudohioan]

8. Uneffenbelieveable!!!!!

To even ASK a group of middle school kids that kind of questions in a classroom setting! I hope that sub is FIRED!

Kudos to your kid for standing up for her beliefs; you obviously did something right!

[seabeyond]

16. you do know the kids are being given sexual education at younger and younger ages

and that 13 is far from the start of this subject and that it is the democrats that demand this education for their children. and that this is an issue when it comes to sexual education, along with many many other not so comfortable subjects?

[proudohioan]

30. It's not the subject of sex ed that appals me....

It's the fact that this teacher put kids on the spot like that...... asking which kid is for or against abortion? The subject of sex ed is not nearly as uncomfortable as it is asking the kids to publicly state their stand on abortion. That, to me, is as private to a kid as asking which girls have started menstruating, or how many boys have had a 'wet dream'.

[seabeyond]

32. when you start menstruating and what do you believe are two totally different things.

we got a little of the story. i would have continued asking what was said, what did others say, what did you say and think, where did the teacher go with this. by the time i was done, i would have had a good feel about all that happened in that class. then....

i would have talked to child about how he felt, what he thinks, what he learned and give my opinions.

it opened for a discussion.

discussions are good. there was at the least the opportunity for other thought instead of abortion a sin, now lets move on. i would have had more of an issue with that.

my kids have had numerous discussions that go all over the place in classes. something brought up, and exploration allowed

we say kids are not given critical thinking. that things just drilled. this sounded like an interactive discussion. what we dems demand in class. and everyone is OUTRAGED

[proudohioan]

34. Maybe a better way for the teacher to have phrased the question

would have been to ask the kids to discuss some of the pro's and con's of abortion/giving birth/adoption option. That way it would have been an actual thoughtful discussion. I agree with you, discussions are a good thing, but putting kids on the spot like that in front of their peers? Not so good.

I think the outrage here comes from the fact that the OP stated that the teacher gave an anti-abortion position. That was my take on it, anyhow.

[seabeyond]

40. a couple things. on the spot, ok, but i am sure this girls has discussed this stuff

with classmates already and they understand her views as it is. again, we start kids early in this stuff today. it is already out there. secondly, it empowers the kids to have the courage to raise hand and speak out. it is good for other kids to see her as one be brave enough to share opinion. the repercussions where not negative.

my kids have been doing this for so many years and as i said in another post, at first it was hard for me and bothered me. now i am so thankful that they had the opportunity and continue to have the opportunity as they are so secure and knowledgeable and confident and insightful in their opinions. it has really all been a good thing

and they were battling the hardest of stuff and very young ages.

yes, it would be lovely if the teacher had handled as you suggested. wasn't done. there is opportunity though, regardless, if discussion is allowed.

[proudohioan]

45. You don't need to preach to the choir on sex ed discussions here...

As horrified and embarrassed as my kids were, I discussed masturbation with the three of them at the dinner table one evening; my oldest was about 13 and the other two were pre-teens.

The subject came about because I worked at DHS and had interviewed a client who was a 13 year old mother who was in to apply for services. Looking at the birth certificate and doing the math, that girl was only 12 years old when she conceived. The putative father was age 14.

Even though my kids were familiar with general sex ed and birth control, I figured having a frank and open discussion about masturbation being a viable option would have some value for them.

At the time, the kids groaned, squirmed and "EEEEWWWW'd" a lot, but to this day, none have had an unplanned teen aged pregnancy (knock on wood).

[seabeyond]

47. groaned, squirmed and "EEEEWWWW'd"... lol lol lol

can you believe, i mean, can you believe all the shit we have to talk to kids about today that our parents didn't even kinda sorta maybe get close to. i mean geeez. but the thing, it is the extreme on both sides of the isle that create the necessity to do it. i am as mad at the culture and prevalence of the all porn all the time, every sexual act discussed openly and shown, regardless of the ages; as i am with the sex is a sin group. i am so pissed at the adults playing in the kids sexual journey and retarding our kids not allowing them to experience their own sexual journey in a healthy balanced age appropriate manner.

i am pissed at two sides here.

the result

we parents discuss EVERYTHING with the kids to get the second hand garbage out and honest and balance in.

[proudohioan]

55. Isn't THAT the truth!

And I also get pissed at the extremes of both sides myself. I guess you and I just envisioned that kids scenario differently; I envisioned some "Right-to-Lifer" coming in and spouting her rhetoric and then putting kids on the spot to see who would dare disagree. You envisioned some other scenario. You are right, though, neither of us were there.......

Yes, society is so quick to make a buck off of sex in music, TV, movies and advertising, because "$ex $ells", then have the audacity to wonder "what's wrong with this immoral country"....

"i am so pissed at the adults playing in the kids sexual journey and retarding our kids not allowing them to experience their own sexual journey in a healthy balanced age appropriate manner." Excellent point!!!!!!! Couldn't have put THAT any better!

[davsand]

59. My daughter is not terribly shy about her opinions.

I will tell you, however, that she did stress that she was the ONLY kid to raise her hand when that sub asked who supports abortion. Tough as she is--she did notice she was out there alone on that front line.

We live in a pretty conservative rural area, and at a pretty young age she realized that her life experiences and attitudes were not the same as her classmates. She was the only kid in her class to support Obama in this last election. She was proud of having met him (we live in Illinois and she has gone with us to anything that was appropriate for kids to attend) and she was one of two kids that supported Kerry (the other was a girl from a union household...)

She has been on picket lines with us when we judged it to be "safe" and she has been out there with us at any number of social justice rallies. She went to the Illinois Supreme Court with us when they heard oral arguments last fall on a case I worked on regarding a requirement that tax exempt hospitals in Illinois provide free care to medically indigent people (we won, I might add.) She can hold her own in most discussions nd on occasion has been willing to take on an adult or two.

My biggest issue is that it is NOT the place of a substitute teacher to publicly call ANY kid out front on a personal issue, nor is it appropriate to walk into a PUBLIC classroom and use it as a bully pulpit for one's personal views. I might have been ok if the teacher had managed to choke out that she represented ONE viewpoint of many--but that is not how it was--at least as my kid reported it.

Seriously--as up front as I am about my own views, I would never DREAM of walking into a classroom full of other parent's kids and putting my own views out there as if they were the only ones with any validity. For sure, if I KNEW this unit was coming up you can bet I'd have made sure parents knew it was coming so they could participate if they so chose. If you want to TEACH issues you have to show kids how debate works in our society, IMO. You gotta walk the walk, in other words...


Laura

[seabeyond]

65. i can certainly agree with you on that. that there is absolutely much better ways

to express, discuss, allow a conversation on these areas. my kids have experienced all the different ways... this is it, end of discussion. i believe, .... how about you all. and a free for all with class adn teacher is referee to ensure a continued respect but open discussion.

[sybylla]

136. There's a difference between a discussion and a witch hunt.

You don't ever ask a class a questions like that unless you're out for a witch hunt.

It's absolutely not germane to their education. Why does what students think about abortion matter to others? Why would a teacher ask them to publicly express their views on something they probably know very little about at that age, except the taglines they get on it from church and billboards?

[seabeyond]

138. i am surprised by this thread. the contradiction, and flat out hypocrisy.

many are stating why is this even discussed in school. some saying keep politics out of school. a few saying teachers should just teach and shut up. and then a really funny one is the rant about how teachers only teach for test and stifle critical thinking.

hearing more and more from the OP on want happened in this class, not only did the kid GET to share an contradict ive opinion (always a plus in my book when that is allowed) but they had further discussion about it to the point that the girl was able to convince some kids in class why abortion should be a choice

the teacher did not say this is the way it is, end of conversation. the teacher clarified with "my opinion" and for me, that is always a plus in discussion

in schools, classrooms, many conversations are brought up that does not belong in the curriculum and du generally demands, insists our children be allowed that environment.

this is a topic that is rw opinion, ergo, we are all OUTRAGED that it dare be shared. there are conversations "liberal" teachers bring up that rw dont want their children to hear and we on du sneer at them and tell them to suck it up and part of critical thinking, outside the box thinking our children need.

a whole lot of adults being afraid of conversation and discussion when it appears the substitute allowed open discussion and thought from the students on the subject.

i find this thread disturbing, or ridiculous, or amusing.... i haven't decided.

i do know that my kids have had and continue to have all kinds of discussions in class, allowing them to explore different perspectives and express differing views. living in panhandle of texas i have also been thrilled that teachers try to stay neutral or allow differing views in discussion with intent to keep it respectful. i value that. i have yet to have a situation in the many times kids have been challenge in their beliefs and thoughts that classroom environment was hostile to extent of causing issues.

[elehhhhna]

70. Yep. Not appropriate at all. My daughter had a sub this year

who told them all about the conspiracy of the Masons, Tupac Shakur's faked death, yada yada other crazy crap etc.

I complained. He's off the list for our District, now & forever.

[proudohioan]

78. Yeah, it's one thing if you want to believe that kind of crazy stuff....

it' your own business; however, a teacher, and IMO a person in the position of trust, should never inflict his/her own beliefs as "gospel" onto impressionalble kids. And like it or not, kids are impressionable, especially to a well-liked teacher.

What your kids sub told that class was inexcuseable. Now to bring it up as a rational discussion, that's another subject. But I know that that's not always the case with some of the whack jobs out there.

[demigoddess]

93. good. they need to know about this stuff. Farm kids learn the facts about sex

much earlier than what you seem to think is appropriate and they seem to survive. My parents, grandparents and probably yours as well. As they said, get a clue.

[seabeyond]

94. since i grew up on a farm, i appreciate your lecture and assumption.

i dont think i am the one all in a stink that this subject came up. nor am i the one denying that these conversations are happening in middle schools and classrooms are talking about it. further, i dont think you will see in any of my posts where i refuse to discuss any and all subjects with my kids

[ensho]

9. what did the principal have to say?

the teacher should be fired.

hugs for your daughter

[glinda]

19. report them

[WinkyDink]

36. "Substitute".

[EmilyAnne]

10. What an immature teacher.

It seems that this teacher was essentially bullying your daughter.

I am pregnant with my first and just found out its a girl!

I have been doing so much thinking about this daughter I will have, wondering who she will be, etc.
It must be such a wonderful feeling to see your daughter come into her own and stand up for her beliefs, even when she is in the minority.

[davsand]

28. Congrats to YOU! Babies are such a gift!

Kids as a whole are an amazing journey--one that no amount of mental preparation can ever really get you ready for!

My daughter has been a gift to us from the very start and there is not a day that goes by that she fails to make us celebrate her. She most certainly has her own mind, and it has manifested all along. I think the most gratifying thing (thus far) has been to see her take ideas and assimilate them into her world. For kids this is such a visceral thing--way more than I think it is for us as adults. I am infinitely proud of how KIND my kid is. She has a very highly defined sense of what she feels is right and wrong--she's very ethical. She also is not a shrinking violet. She is gonna be one kick ass woman in her day, ad I hope to be there to see her in action.

I was talking to her the other night in the car (we talk a lot in the car--I'll take any opportunity I can get!) and I asked her if she feels free to disagree with us about different subjects. She kind of laughed when she said it, but it made me feel good when she said something to the effect of, "Mom, you RAISED me to be a debate person."



Laura

[kestrel91316]

12. Even a molar pregnancy???? Where the "baby" is a genetically distinct

cancer/human????

Jesus wept.

[elehhhhna]

72. probably especially those, kestrel. The guy's a nut.

[seabeyond]

14. ok. we want them to teach all kinds of moral issues and non academic issues because parents dont

teach there kids, so that means we are not allow to pick and chose.

this woman has a personal opinion, and that is all it is. nothing new here. your daughter is 13 as are the classmates so i am sure they have all been introduced to this issues.

i think it is excellent that you called the people you did for a heads up, and the knowledge to these people that there are differing views.

yes, it is hard for your daughter to be the only one to raise her hand with do you support CHOICE not abortion and i wish she was also able to clarify that for the teacher. we have to be aware that the right uses language in a propaganda manner and teach our children and ourselves to challenge..... every. time.

yes, it would have been nice to give differing views, but she did ask if anyone supported, so where did that come from if it was not the knowledge that there are differing views

anyway... i think it is all fine, what you did, what your daughter did (huge pat on back and builds character) and not so swell what substitute did.

this is the times our children are living in. it is not only on the rw side. it is not only issues we oppose, but issue we support that the right does not want children to learn.

my children have lived in this type of environment and have been faced with these challenges since very young. use to be hard to watch. now, not so much. they are just so kick ass good at it to the point i am thankful they have had the opportunity.

[davsand]

38. Yes, I doubt there is a kid in Jr High that has not heard about abortion.

I also agree with you that a lot of families do not have open communication about a lot of this stuff. My personal opinion has always been there is NO such thing as "too much" knowledge for kids when it comes to sex ed, but I also realize that my attitudes are very firmly rooted in the whole Planned Parenthood sort of ethos. Sorry to be terribly blunt here, but they NEED to know what causes babies, and they NEED to know how their bodies work.

I do not think it is the job of the school to teach much of anything beyond basic anatomy and physiology, period. This is a SCIENCE class, not an ethics or theology class. That teacher clearly overstepped.

My daughter was not terribly traumatized by the experience--in fact she was mildly amused by the number of classmates that switched views when presented with the idea of a pregnancy due to rape. She GOT the hypocrisy inherent to that shifting position which I thought was pretty sharp analysis for a 13 year old. She was also bemused by the attitude the BOYS held. (It is her personal opinion that men should just stay out of it, in spite of the fact that half the DNA represented came from a male...)

My daughter is a pretty strong minded individual.

We did talk abut the language of "supporting abortion" verses "supporting choice" and she does get that idea. Her comment was that it is her right to choose not to be pregnant just as it is somebody else's right to stay pregnant. Choice is supposed to be about the freedom for every woman to make her own mind up--period.



Laura

[seabeyond]

42. and look at the opportunity your child had that you are angry about.

and i am hearing the discussion went way beyond the little told in op, which i assumed from the feel of the conversation.

and look at the so few posters here on this thread, adults, that went beyond the little you gave us.

the conclusions drawn, and the outrage that manifests.

not the job of the school to teach beyond the anatomy and physiology? you sound rw. you know they are talking way beyond that dont you. a couple weeks ago 12 yr old son telling me they talked about date rape. how does that fit into your limited education. they talk about alcohol and drugs and the effect alcohol has on kids and their sexuality. that doesn't fit into the limited amount. date rape i had to take it further, because it is what he got in school

date rape, what is it.

being raped on a date

well fuck that shit, now i have to have a half hour conversation about date rape with 12 yr old son.

this is what we get.

good and bad in it.

i prefer to embrace it, acknowledge it and take full advantage of the opportunity.

your daughter got to express differing opinion opening the eyes of others students in thought, something they haven't done, and probably would not have done.

yea

and as far as bothered cause science, ..... kids. history, english, a subject can come up in any class and be explored. again

yea

[davsand]

63. Sadly, date rape is as much of a reality as pregnancy and abortion.

Look, I'm not saying anything other than teachers--all adults in positions of responsibility, really--have got to be careful about what and how they present subjects.

Mu guess is you would have been pretty pissed off had some adult male teacher stood there and encouraged boys to "liquor up" the girlies if they want to get laid. That represents a world view that is outside your own. Similarly, I doubt you'd be terribly thrilled to envision a place where the adults in charge told your kids, "don't even THINK about it or worry about it--date rape only happens to "bad" kids who go to parties."

That sub called for a show of hands from those who "supported abortion." Not "Choice for Women" but "ABORTION." That is a clear dialectic clue about where that teacher was coming from, and it is (as usual) an attempt to color the debate so that it looks so much clearer than it really is.

Had that teacher opened with a discussion about the different attitudes of when life begins and then continued on to a private vote on when do YOU think life begins? I would have probably been just fine with the following debate. It would have been a lot more honest, in my opinion. Had the discussion been accompanied by statements that this is a deeply held PERSONAL opinion I might have felt a bit better. That didn't happen either. It should not have been happening in that venue, in that way, with THAT person.

From one who has been on the front lines of the choice war, I will tell you that OPEN discussion take a lot of work--work that was clearly missing or maybe even neglected in this case.


Laura

[seabeyond]

66. my first post i state i am glad you called and gave schools heads up and i

wished your daughter had thought to reframe the comment to for choice. (and i know that is a hard one, to think fast and aware, ect... not expected)

i agree with you on that.

it is the attitude from so many on the thread outraged that this was even brought up. all this shit is brought up, younger and younger. and this is what the parents deals with. regularly. so it behooves us parents to be aware and educate our child and as you have.... thru out daughters life,.... have her participate in the social issues along with the academics.

you handle it well. your daughter will be fine. and the students that dont get it in the home will suffer.

[h9socialist]

15. Petition to have that sub fired! That's wrong to do to kids!

[WinkyDink]

37. Can't be "fired." Just taken off "Call" list.

[MindandSoul]

17. Sounds like you raised your daughter to be strong and not to be bullied

even by a teacher!

I'm sure she knows that there is a difference between supporting a woman's right to choose and supporting abortion. . . and that question should NEVER have been asked, but if it was. . .it should have been asked more fairly. . .like "who support a woman's right to choose to abort?"

I may be wrong, but I think very few people "support abortion," but rather "support the right to choose to abort" as a personal right, that most people do not take lightly!

Personally, I do not believe that abortion should be treated as a form of birth control. . .but I would fight to my last day to keep abortion legal and for woman to have the right to make their own decision.

I often think that one of the biggest "blessings" in my life is that I never had to face the decision to abort or not to abort! I honestly don't know what I would have done. . .but I believe that it would have been MY decision, not that of any Church or Government!

[BlooInBloo]

20. (facepalm)

[peace13]

21. I feel for your child being put in that position.

I admire her tenacity and strength. I'm sure it wasn't easy! Give her a special hug. Peace, kim

[Initech]

23. Argh I hate these pro-lifers who have to impose their beliefs on everybody.

:argh:

[mr blur]

24. What business does a science teacher have asking

about peoples' feelings about abortion?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

29. exactly!

[harry_pothead]

26. What that teacher did is BS

[SPedigrees]

33. Good for your kid. She sounds like a gal who knows her own mind

and is not afraid to stand up for her views. And clearly you have encouraged her to think for herself and not blindly accept what others tell her. I predict she'll do fine in life.

[harun]

46. Did the teacher ask "who supported abortion" or "who supports peoples right to

have abortions"?

[elleng]

54. Was gonna ask, wtf is a teacher asking such question anyhow?

Sex-ed class?

Your suggestion, harun, is MUCH TOO REASONABLE and nuanced for THAT teacher! Substitute-no-more, I hope.

[harun]

73. I recall being asked who supported abortion in a high school

class (Biology). Not that it was related to the class, the teacher just threw it out there to see. Some raised their hands some didn't.

[elleng]

96. I don't recall any such, but that was MANY MOONS ago.

and we did have 'sex ed' class.

[onlyadream]

51. Good for your daughter!

My 10yo son just stood up to his teacher when she said that Liberals were bad because they're not mentioned in the bible. My son rose his hand and said that Jesus was a liberal, they just didn't have the word for it, lol!
This is his last year at that school...

[seabeyond]

53. ah ha. that is excellent. high five that boy of yours.... for me. nt

[newtothegame]

60. We should do the same to professors in our public universities then, shouldn't we?

If there's no "tenure" to protect public teachers k-12, why should there be for professors?

[HillWilliam]

61. What I read here

is a post about an awesome mom who's raised an awesome daughter. The moran sub is a bump in the road. That will be a self-correcting problem. Rock on, Laura!

[ismnotwasm]

62. Awesome daughter

The teacher needs to be fired

[noiretextatique]

67. is this another case of uterus-envy?

or is this idiot a woman? kudos to your daughter for speaking up. there are many adults who would have just sat there without saying a word.

[Odin2005]

68. That teacher should be banned from teaching anyone ever.

This reminds me of a high school health teacher I had who pushed right-wing abstinence-only BS and I got detention for calling her a liar.

[FLyellowdog]

75. Give your daughter a big hug for me.

My granddaughter was the only one who raised her hand when her teacher asked during Kerry's run for office who would have voted for him. Schools aren't supposed to do these sort of things, but sadly they do.

You've done a superb job with your daughter. Tell her to stand tall for all she believes in. Our country needs young people like her. :bounce:

[Hissyspit]

76. And how would that asshole make that happen?

[Xenotime]

79. The right wing has too strong of a grip on this country.

[Arugula Latte]

82. So does religious nuttery.

[Orsino]

81. Ask him how much he's willing to pay to compensate women for miscarriages...

...and how much he would fine them for premature birth?

[Scout]

83. *I* believe every anti-choice male should have his dick tied in a knot!

what a jerk that guy was!

where the hell does he get off making a pronouncement like that in class?? i'd be pissed too.

[BrklynLiberal]

85. The teacher was a MAN!!!????On top of the unmitigated gall to say anything, but for a MAN to say

something, and ask students to raise their hands.

In keeping with the tenor this guy's beliefs, I think he should be stoned to death by the people in the town.

[BrklynLiberal]

84. That is so totally outrageous!! I am literally speechless!!

:mad: :puke: :wtf: :grr: :nuke:

[Better Believe It]

87. You have every reason to be proud of your daughter.

You've done a good job in raising her to be an intelligent and critical thinker mom!

[demtenjeep]

88. Why was a sub asking those types of questions?

if a sub ever did that in my room, they would NEVER be subbing ever again in my district!

[redqueen]

89. Wow... good for her!

Fucking scary times we're living in, that's for sure.

[donco6]

91. There's a reason some people are subs.

Be sure to complain. When the principal gets enough of them, they won't call that sub back to work.

[defendandprotect]

95. Congratulations to you both -- would have been easy to walk away from this!!!

Thanks for your courage!!

:applause:

[jberryhill]

97. Even the ones who aren't pregnant?

I don't see how it's even possible for every woman to carry every pregnancy to term. Are they supposed to pass each one around?

[underseasurveyor]

98. I guess my response might be

Well then every woman should have to carry a gun because no means no:evilgrin: I'm kidding of course... maybe;-)

Your daughter is to be highly praised and commended. She took the high road while standing up for what she believes when the odds were not in her favor.

Bravo to her and to you too... you raised her perfectly!:bravo:

[nickinSTL]

101. good for her

When I was in high school (must have been 11th grade), we had an exercise in our US History class.

We were asked which party (Republican or Democrat) we supported - this was during the 1988 election campaign. I was one of two or three to support Dems.

Then we took a quiz on issues (or maybe the timeline was reversed, not sure), and all but one person in the class agreed with Dems on the issues.

And, from what I've seen thanks to Facebook, my former classmates never did start to think for themselves, and are still supporting Repubs - of course, now they've bought into the politics, whereas in high school, they were just parroting their parents.

[pitohui]

102. why is politics being discussed in SCIENCE class?

can you file a complaint w. the school board? this is really going way too far, this teacher doesn't belong in front of a science class if she's using it to push a political agenda

if you have a friend/family member who is a lawyer, i might be really tempted to see how far i could take this

a woman who can't plan her own family can never be free or equal, and i wouldn't want mental failures (most substitute teachers are, let's face it, life's losers) trying to instruct my daughter about her sex life, family planning, or abortion -- seems like it should be kind of illegal there in the classroom

her "beliefs" need to stay at home if it's SCIENCE class, if she wants to push her beliefs, let her get a minimum wage (or unpaid) job at a religious school where unqualified and ignorant teachers abound

[miscsoc]

104. the right wing is very active in trying to politicize education

the school board might have been infiltrated. the john birch society used to make taking over school boards etc. one of their main means of gaining power and influence in the 60s

[miscsoc]

103. fucking disgraceful

people are very lax about who they allow to teach children, weirdly.

i had a teacher who literally never taught us anything, since he knew nothing about the subject. he just walked in, talked confidently, made up a bunch of qualifications and got the job. it was a year or something before the school figured it out. not that this is wholly relevant, i just like telling that story :)

you should make yourself a nuisance to the school, and figure out if this was just an accident or if the local right wing had any hand in the employment of that particular woman. i've been reading a book about the origins of the modern american right and one of the ways they made a lot of progress was by taking over school boards etc and putting in a lot of hours to indoctrinate schoolkids w right wing ideas.

[FSogol]

105. Is this the opening salvo for the War on Preemies?

:shrug:

[tnlefty]

106. Even if it kills her, maims her,

or she can't afford it. Why did the substitute leave that out of her declaration?

I have 3 sons and they understand these things well, as they are my sons. One who is in his 2nd yr. at MTSU and he took on the females who were minding the hideous, huge, anti women display on campus earlier this year. He called me to tell me about it and that these females were stuttering and scratching their heads as he was asking them questions. My boy.:evilgrin:

I'm glad that your daughter raised her hand, although she was the only one. :hug: to your daughter and to you for raising a thinker.

[puebloknot]

108. "I believe ... " does not belong in a classroom. A teacher is there ...

... to teach a curriculum, not espouse personal beliefs. Heads should roll over this (metaphorically, of course).

[Kerrytravelers]

109. Is this substitute a retired or former classroom teacher?

I was in the classroom for years, and when I left to get my Masters, I substituted. It was weird being in someone else's room after all those years of having my own. What made me and many retired teacher valuable was our valid credentials. We could be placed in any classroom for any length of time without needing a waiver from the state for long-term, being responsible for report cards, etc. and teach any subject- including sex ed.

I'm curious if this is the case, and since the administration knows this teacher, they are either not going to do anything because A.) they're all pals and B.) their credential is valuable to the district.

Obviously, I am in total agreement with you on this topic. I just can't understand why the administration would basically do nothing. There are even republicans who are pro-choice, or pro-stay out of my personal medical business, so it is likely you're not the only upset parent. And, quite frankly, time is so short during the school day, why waste valuable classroom time on something not in the text? I highly doubt the regular classroom teacher wrote "Take classroom poll of abortion" in the lesson plans.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

111. Why the hell would he/she give his/her opinion on abortion and ask the question on

who supported abortion? That is completely inappropriate. That asshole should be dismissed immediately.

[Crowman1979]

114. Why don't they just say, "I believe rapists should have their sickest fantasies fulfilled"

Because that's what their really implying. But their heads are just filled with this female submission BS.

[Heathen57]

116. You should be very proud of her.

You raised a child that can think and reason for herself and not have to follow the crowd.

The teacher on the other hand....

Needs to have her arse handed to her on a paper plate (forget the silver platter). Hope you get come kind of satisfactory answer for this fool's improper topic.

[cascadiance]

117. A kid should ask "How would you feel if you got raped and got pregnant from it?"

and put her on the f'ing spot!

Would like to hear how she'd answer that one.

Kudos to your kid for standing up the right way the way she should!

[Festivito]

120. I would want to ask: Even in the case of certain death of the mother?

It would be suicide, and so this teacher believes in suicide, and believes a baby's life is more important than the committing suicide.

Or, is this teacher mentally deficient in parallel areas such as they do not want gun control, then when questioned if they want felons to have guns they say no, and it must be pointed out that that would be gun control.

Or, they don't want government control of their health insurance nor the socialism of government run health care, and government had better not touch medicare, and it must be painfully pointed out that medicare is government run socialized health care.

In other words, they are, in the originating greek sense, clearly shown to be an idiot.

BTW: Good job on raising a kid into a strong adult. I hope the stayed calm of pride swells within you both along with a warm feeling I send across the state line.

[DesertFlower]

122. OMG. nt

[wickerwoman]

123. "And you're living proof that they shouldn't."

would be my first response.

Sorry that happened to your daughter Laura. It sucks being singled out like that. But I'm sure you've done a great job and when she's off at Harvard she'll look back and realize it made her stronger.

[Enthusiast]

125. The teacher is typical of Reich Wing

zealots. They boldly proclaim their views so that the listener can adopt them. It doesn't need to be in the classroom, either, I see them do this everywhere. They have been emboldened by the RW TV and radio media.

[ceveritt]

127. "... every woman should. ..." reply

As others have said, a big shout-out to your daughter. She plainly has courage.

As for the teacher, I can only restate Florynce Kennedy's assertion that, "If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."

If that were the case, maybe we wouldn't have to hear that sub's errant bullshit.

[dotymed]

128. I empathize.

My youngest child (son), was given a writing assignment yesterday. The assignment was a "point of view" supported by factual data paper in his English class. After class (he says), he asked his teacher if he could include his "progressive" views in the paper. I have exposed my children to "official" facts that conflict with the America is #1 curriculum taught in our small Indiana town. My son said that his (female) teacher, "set her jaw and told him NO." Decades ago, I earned a degree in literature. I told him that I would help him gather government and other official data to support his views for his paper. He declined and said that his teacher would ridicule him and he would ultimately get a bad grade for his views. I ran into similar situations with his sister (now a Presidential Scholarship winner) who graduates from college next year with a double Major, History and Education. I have seen her embarrassed and ridiculed for her beliefs in this very Red State of Indiana. I have always encouraged them to think for themselves. Our favorite "time killer", on long trips has always been "debating", with no taboo subjects. They were always allowed to choose their "side" and I opposed their views, sometimes when I agreed with them, but it allowed them to vocalize and think out their opinions. Sadly, if they show a lack of indoctrination in their conservative school, it is (was) always frowned upon and graded accordingly. My children have always insisted that I not get involved. Of course, on occasion, I was compelled to.
Teach to the test and discourage any thinking outside of the box. That is what they are "taught" in "Red" Indiana. I am very proud that my children (maybe having a "progressive" father had something to do with it) have always looked past the "official" versions. It seems like real teachers would encourage that. Even in College, my daughter has been ridiculed by her "liberal" professors.

[Vinca]

129. I'd be furious, too. Good for your daughter. A kid with a mind and a spine.

[veganlush]

130. The teacher needs to read my open letter to scott roeder:

did you know that in the medical world, miscarriages are called "spontaneous abortions"?

did you know that in many Christian hospitals the nuns counsel victims of "spontaneous abortions" that the miscarriage was "god's will"?

did you know that there are procedures, used everyday, that are put in place to prevent "spontaneous abortions" that take the form of vaginal suppositories or cervical sutures?

did you know that there are far more "spontaneous abortions" than man-made ones?


To re-cap: Many people of the cloth consider miscarriages to be "god's will.

The medical community considers them to be "spontaneous abortions"

Sometimes people have to intervene to stop "god's will" from aborting their child.

By the numbers, your "god" is the biggest abortionist of them all.

[Myrina]

131. There's a nutball running for Senate here in Indy ...

.... who, in his campaign ads, claims he is a "pro life conservative Republican who supports personal freedoms".
Okay, what kind of an oxyMORON is that?

How can you 'support personal freedoms' but be against marriage equality and against a woman's right to choose? :wtf:

I can't wait to get to one of this asshole's campaign events.

[mstinamotorcity]

137. Tell the teacher

if it wasn't for her union contract we would carry her ass out to the curb full term.

[Wapsie B]

144. If that is the case then the sperm donors should be requred by law

to either financially support their offspring or submit to forced sterilization.

[Arugula Latte]

151. This is outrageous.

By the way, probably half the girls who didn't raise their hand to support abortion will be at a Planned Parenthood clinic within the next few years. Funny how views change when a pregnancy scare becomes real.