I have been stopped numerous times in Mexico and asked for my papers..

[Winterblues]

Just saying..........

[atreides1]

1. And???

[slackmaster]

2. The last time I drove from Phoenix to San Diego I was stopped and asked about my citizenship...

Four times.

Every time I have driven in Mexico I have been stopped and questioned, and asked to show my papers, multiple times.

[Pamela Troy]

7. So what?

[CreekDog]

65. what papers and what if you didn't show them or have them?

i've been stopped near Yuma also, it's a border patrol checkpoint, but they can't require American Citizens to need a passport or birth certificate to go from CA to AZ.

[slackmaster]

70. In Mexico I've had to show my passport and visitor's visa numerous times

Showing paperwork to prove your lawful presence is a normal part of traveling in a foreign country.

[CreekDog]

76. dammit, you said you were stopped in the USA and now you are changing the subject

answer the question about what happened when you were asked to "show papers" in the USA.

or else i'm just going to ignore that post as being devoid of any useful information.

[slackmaster]

78. Please go back and VERY CAREFULLY re-read the body of reply #2

:hi:

[CreekDog]

82. you edited that post

so you drive through Mexico to get from San Diego to Phoenix?

i don't know why you can't just say that up front. most people who drive from one to the other don't go through Mexico, in fact, it's farther that way. and besides, it would be a big deal if you were stopped while driving in the US and asked to show your citizenship or residency papers.

[slackmaster]

84. If I had edited it, the date and time of the last edit would appear in the post right now

:rofl:

[CreekDog]

86. now to ask a third time...did you drive through Mexico to get from CA to Arizona?

maybe third time's a charm here.

[slackmaster]

87. No, I don't believe I have ever done that, but I never said that I did.

So it doesn't matter at all.

Notice that my subject line starts with "The last time...", and the separate paragraph referring to my experiences in Mexico starts with "Every time...".

It's pretty obvious that the second paragraph in the body of reply #2 refers to something different than the subject line of reply #2, unless a reader is intentionally being obtuse in a lame attempt to cover up for an initial failure to comprehend the text the first time.

[CreekDog]

88. what "papers" were you required to show to drive from San Diego to Phoenix

it appears to be none. you were only asked about papers when in Mexico.

do you think you are required to show your "papers" while driving in the United States?

[slackmaster]

98. I don't carry papers, I carry a pipe

:toast:

[CreekDog]

99. you just said your papers were checked

i know you're joking but you don't really want to back up your story do you?

:eyes:

why you waste your time here hawking the Republican line is beyond me.

[slackmaster]

111. Yes, I said my papers have been checked many times

In Mexico.

I think reply #2 is quite clear. I don't understand why you are having such a major malfunction in comprehending what I wrote.

[CreekDog]

113. because you said you don't carry papers

:eyes:

although your answer might explain the confusing nature of your posts! :smoke:

[slackmaster]

114. Please point out where I said I don't carry papers, obvious sarcasm notwithstanding

I always have at least a driver's license. When I'm in another country, I carry a passport and whatever else is required to be in the country legally.

My remark about carrying a pipe was sarcasm in response to your idiotic question in reply #88, and a reference to a Firesign Theatre album.

[Mojeoux]

102. People are always mixed up about ....Mexico the country and New Mexico the American state.

happens all the time.

[CreekDog]

106. lol

:rofl:

I wonder what they think Baja California is. :shrug:

[Pamela Troy]

3. And your point is...?

Mexico also has a justice system that operates under the Napoleonic Code -- you're guilty until proven innocent.

Should we also emulate that?

[Winterblues]

20. Mexico's President just had a few things to say about Arizona's new law

I was basically replying to him. Of course I am not in favor of any part of the USA adopting policy positions as intrusive as many other countries have. I am against the USA torturing people as well. I am in no way defending Arizona by comparison with Mexico. I am just drawing attention to the fact they are so upset over a policy they themselves engage in at every opportunity.

[Pamela Troy]

22. First of All, Again, So what?

What do Mexican internal policies have to do with American internal policies?

And are Mexican police targeting people with light skin and hair to be pulled over?

[slackmaster]

24. Arizona police are not engaged in racial profiling

And it's not really clear that they will when the new immigration law takes effect.

[hlthe2b]

27. this Arizona SHERIFF begs to differ.

Source: ABC

Ariz. Sheriff Says He Will Refuse to Enforce Immigration Law
Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer's Controversial Immigration Bill is Drawing Ire from Many Americans
By EMILY FRIEDMAN
An Arizona sheriff said today that he has "no intention of complying" with the state's controversial new immigration law, calling it "abominable" and a "national embarrassment."

"We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't," said Dupnik. "If we go out and look for illegal immigrants, they accuse us of racial profiling and we can get sued. And if some citizen doesn't think we're enforcing the state law, they can sue us too."

"If the chief of police or sheriff takes a squad out and says to them that their only duty is to go out and round up illegal immigrants, they are going to racially profile," said Dupnik. "But we have never done that and we will never do that."

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/protestors-arizona-immigration-bill-urge-boycott-state/story?id=10487582


You are really on the wrong side of this debate, it seems to me, slackmaster. I am really perplexed that you are seemingly defending this policy. :shrug:

[slackmaster]

28. Thanks for proving my point

The law HAS NOT TAKEN EFFECT YET.

[hlthe2b]

36. What is your point?

Forgive me if I am not following, but your position seems all over the place. :shrug: You seem to be defending the new law?

[slackmaster]

38. My point is that AZ police are not engaging in racial profiling RIGHT NOW

Because the new immigration law HAS NOT TAKEN EFFECT YET.

I am not supporting the law, but frankly people are jumping the gun reacting to it. They're complaining about and referring to in the present tense something that MAY happen in the future but HAS NOT YET HAPPENED.

[hlthe2b]

42. I recall a news piece on a truck driver detained in handcuffs

from late last week in AZ because he did not have his birth certificate with him, though he had his social security number and commercial driver's license. So, I would not be so adamant that it is NOT happening at all.

BTW, what is your logo meant to represent?

[slackmaster]

43. That stop was done by federal INS agents

The logo indicates that I am a proud Grammar Nazi.

[Confusious]

91. federal government. Immigration detained him

they can ask for anything, according to law that has been on the books since almost the start of the country.

[blueamy66]

71. Oh, yes they do racially profile...

and I speak from some personal experience....

[Juneboarder]

77. Where's your proof Slackmaster?

They "may not" be profiling right now, but this new law sure does open the flood gates.

[slackmaster]

79. I'm not saying that racial profiling never happens in Arizona

I'm saying the new immigration law HAS NOT YET GONE INTO EFFECT therefore there is no systematic racial profiling being done as a result of the new law.

[Juneboarder]

80. Racial profiling in AZ

is not a new thing...

http://immigrationmexicanamerican.blogspot.com/2008/04/driving-while-black-or-brown-racial.html

I think it is horrible that this goes on, and even more horrible that it could become legal within state boundaries in the near future.

[slackmaster]

85. It's not illegal now, and there is nothing in the new law that would make it more legal

The law does not say anything at all about racial profiling. It's widely assumed that racial profiling would be the most logical way to implement the law, if it ever does go into effect.

[Demstud]

108. You're still not making much sense

Just because racial profiling is not explicitly legalized in the law (which would never happen), doesn't mean it won't happen, and doesn't mean it isn't happening. That's what's bad about the law, racial profiling is the only way many can think of to enforce the law, as indicated even by some of those who were involved in the law's creation and approval, and law enforcement officials. That's why it's a bad law.

[slackmaster]

112. Racial profiling IS NOT ILLEGAL so your point is moot

That's what's bad about the law, racial profiling is the only way many can think of to enforce the law, as indicated even by some of those who were involved in the law's creation and approval, and law enforcement officials. That's why it's a bad law.

What would you suggest as a way to enforce our borders without racial profiling?

[Juneboarder]

81. Racial profiling in AZ

is not a new thing...

http://immigrationmexicanamerican.blogspot.com/2008/04/driving-while-black-or-brown-racial.html

I think it is horrible that this goes on, and even more horrible that it could become legal within state boundaries in the near future.

[Moochy]

26. Mexico has a bad immigration policy therefore their president

has no basis for criticizing the Arizona law.

I think that's what's being inferred, but "just sayin" is cryptic enough to be interpreted in many directions.

I don't accept that premise, but Mexico's immigration policy on their southern border is not exactly progressive or respectful of civil rights.

[paulsby]

58. to state they have a bad immigration policy is like saying attila the hun was a wee bit aggressive

it's a 2 yr felony to be in mexico illegally

even LEGAL aliens may not participate in any way in writing letters to the editor, public debate, or political campaigns

even naturalized citizens not born in mexico are prohibited from military, police jobs, etc.

[snooper2]

59. are Mexican police targeting people with light skin and hair to be pulled over

Actually they do...from experience and experiences of friends when we would drive down to Ensenada a couple times each summer back early 90's.


Good surfing though :P

[metalbot]

110. Yes, on a regular basis

It's called "shake down the foreigner", and is not uncommon.

[WeDidIt]

4. So you want the US to be more like Mexico?

:eyes:

[pampango]

12. We envy Mexico for not having to live under our constitution.

I'm sure republicans would be willing to go along with amending our constitution so that it is more like that of Mexico to promote more document checking. ;)

[myrna minx]

5. Does Mexico adhere to our Constitution?

[Atman]

6. Yeah, but in Arizona they won't be asking for your Zig Zags.

Just sayin'....

[meegbear]

8. Sounds like you were in Tiajuana ...

you're supposed to have tens and twenties folded in your pocket and you "shake hands" with the officer, asking him to let you go.



Just saying..........

[titoresque]

10. true, and I bet Arpaios men will be doing the same. nt

[Winterblues]

14. I am fairly certain those "papers" will work equally as well in Arizona

I was making a point about Mexico's complaining about the Arizona law...As an American I am opposed to police being able to randomly stop "anyone" and ask them to prove citizenship. But Mexico's President had a bit to say about Arizona's new law, so I had a reply.

[TorchTheWitch]

25. There was a point somewhere in your OP?

If there was a point, you didn't bother to make it. You didn't make any point at all. You just made an OP of nothing but an odd comment that could be interpreted as damn near anything.

[xchrom]

9. No you're not 'just sayin'. Nt

[NNN0LHI]

13. + at least 1

[pampango]

18. I think we all know that anyone who says "Just sayin'", isn't. It's usually that they don't want to

sound unprogressive, so they don't complete their post. Is it the "progressive" way to get across a conservative point? ;)

[Lance_Boyle]

31. Is opposition to illegal migration a 'conservative point?'

I thought this was hashed out in a GD thread earlier in the week. Being opposed to illegal migration (or being in support of adherence to US law re: immigration) is not incompatible with being progressive/liberal. Open borders advocates are using 'republican' tactics to smear their opponents.

[donco6]

40. Opposing this racist tactic doesn't mean you're pro illegal migration either.

I want comprehensive immigration reform at the federal level where it belongs. Not this "show me your papers" bullshit.

[Moochy]

41. "Open borders advocates"

Can you point to some of these supposed Du'ers who have self-identified using that reactionary Right-wing label?

[pampango]

48. No, supporting a law that gives the police the power to check our papers anywhere and anytime they

want is a conservative point, as I'm sure Arizona's republican politicians who passed this legislation will be happy to tell you.

I've seen no progressive politician or organization that has expressed support for this legislation, while many conservative politicians and organizations have supported giving the police this additional powers.

[Lance_Boyle]

49. And Big Ed Schultz wants US troops along the Mexican border.

Is that a conservative stance, too?

The sad fact is that police in most US states already have the power to demand "your papers" anytime already. Especially if you are driving.

[Moochy]

50. Big Eddie is right on many issues

But his vestigial republican tail still can wag now and again.
US troops on the border is ridiculous and reactionary, but Then again there is a segment of big eddie's audience that laps this shit up... Faux Populism sells subscriptions to the WeLoveEd.com website!

[amandabeech]

104. Perhaps Big Eddie is concerned about drug-related violence spilling over

to the U.S. It is a problem in some areas.

It's nothing new for one country to station troops on the border if there are problems with wars or violence on the other side of the border.

[EFerrari]

51. And people of color get stopped many more times than white people do.

Is that a "conservative" stance? What do you think?

[frylock]

55. are the open border advocates also pro abortionists?

you got some fucking stones to call out people for their 'republican' smear tactics when you post your republicanese bullshit.

[William Z. Foster]

75. of course it is

Using divide and conquer tactics on the working class is the very heart and soul of the conservative agenda.

I suppose that it could be compatible with a person claiming to be "progressive/liberal" since claiming to be is all that being progressive/liberal amounts to.

"Hey I am a progressive/liberal, but (insert right wing talking points.)" Then, since a person both claims to be progressive/liberal and uses right wing talking points, we are then to see that as proof that the two are compatible.

Am I now using 'republican' tactics to smear opponents? "Open border advocates," by the way, is itself a right wing tactic used to smear their opponents.

[dorkulon]

11. Well, as long as we adhere to the high standards of Mexican jurisprudence....

...what can possibly go wrong?

[spanone]

15. we should racial profile because mexico does?

[a la izquierda]

60. Mexico doesn't racially profile.

If you are stopped at a checkpoint, every single person, Mexican national or not, shows their papers.

[MellowDem]

92. Ha...

that's the funniest thing I have ever seen. I'm pretty sure every single nation on Earth has police that racially profile, but Mexican police even moreso. The amount of corruption, bribing, bigotry, and ignorance present in the Mexican police force isn't even comparable. They just look for someone who looks "American" (which always involves racial profiling) and get their 10 or 20 bucks.

What's funny is you don't hear any cries from Mexican nationals about their horribly corrupt and discriminatory immigration and travel laws towards Americans. There's a reason hundreds of thousands of Mexicans come up here every year and great risk to themselves. Their government sucks ass. And it's why Americans don't want to go down there, unless they're retiring or going for holiday. Then the dollar goes a long way, and who cares if you are a second class citizen?

[a la izquierda]

107. Oh bugger off..

my friends, Mexican nationals, you know Brown folks, are bribed by cops all the time.
You know what you hear from your anecdotal tales and from travel horror stories. I have never, in all the years I've lived there, been bribed. I look Mexican in some parts of the country, but not others.

[Lex]

16. What other Mexican activities should we adopt?

:shrug:

[Moochy]

21. Dia De Los Muertes!

[BlooInBloo]

52. Dead bread!

lol I remember that.

[EFerrari]

54. Defnitely! And any holiday that involves handmade tamales!

[Captain Hilts]

17. I was stopped in Canada for the crime of 'Driving with a Virginia license plate'.

But AZ's law is still racist.

[wolfgangmo]

23. Well to be fair. You are from a place that is a known home to terrorism.

The CIA.

By driving with Virginia license plates you may as well as had a big neon sign that said "Hi. I'm hear to subvert your government and make you all grow pineapples for Dole at pennies a day."


What were you thinking?

[Captain Hilts]

45. Actually my plate is from a state known for cigarette and firearm smuggling.

Yep, Virginia is a major supplier of firearms used in crimes in Toronto.

[treestar]

89. Why?

I drove to Canada and of course had my state plates; no problem.

[Captain Hilts]

93. VA is known as a base for cigarette and firearms smuggling. It's amazing

I don't get pulled over more often as I'm there a fair amount.

I DO get searched at the border a LOT!

[Moochy]

19. Did you have any zig zags on you?

was it dirt weed or kind bud?

[Romulox]

44. I don't think anybody says "kind bud" any more.

I remember back in college, everything that was slightly green or showing even a tiny bit of red hair we called "hydro". Now we call that stuff "mids" and it's tough to find the old Mexican/Kentucky brick any more. The really green stuff is usually called by variety name (to prove its provenance.)

Turns out that Medical Marijuana really is a back-door to legalization. :)

[Moochy]

46. Doobies!

:hippie: Yeah, I think because I watched Cheech & Chong's Hey Watch This, that I've reverted to the 1970's jargon. You are right, it's like coffee blends now,Purple Urkle, Jack Herr, M39, Sulawesi-Kaloosie etc. Oh wait that last one was coffee. :+

[TwilightGardener]

29. Are we Mexico, now?

[Marr]

30. At military checkpoints, right?

Yeah, no shit. Would you like military checkpoints on the roads here, too?

[slackmaster]

34. We already have them here

[madmom]

32. My husband, daughter and I went to Mexico, we are VERY white in appearance, we were

not asked for our "papers". Not once!

[roody]

33. Another reason that so many Mexicans want to live here.

[donco6]

35. I never have. I've been dozens of times.

Mostly in the south.

[ParkieDem]

37. I do not agree with the Arizona law.

But Mexico's president was way out of line criticizing it. Mexico treats its undocumented immigrants (from Guatemala, El Salvador, etc.) much, much, much worse than we treat ours.

I am by no means xenophobic when it comes to our undocumented immigrants, but Mexico bears quite a bit of the blame for this problem. The country has essentially used our relatively liberal policies to effectively pawn off its poverty problems on the United States.

[havocmom]

39. Apples/oranges. Now you can be stopped here and have to produce papers

You do not get it, do you?

People born, raised, and living/working/paying taxes IN AMERICA will be under suspicion and have to produce proof of their right to be in their native country if some yahoo thinks they look illegal and alerts law enforcement.

If I travel to another country, I expect to have to provide evidence of my lawful entry/stay there. I do not carry papers to prove my status when at home. Now, in Arizona, I would be wise to carry documentation, especially if I look suspicious of wear the wrong footwear.

[Taitertots]

47. They demanded my papers while I was in Germany n/t

[ShortnFiery]

68. OMG! The Socialists in Europe also ask to check your IDs!

:eyes:

[Diclotican]

101. Taitertots

Taitertots

You tend to do that, when you are at an border/airport and in custom. I even do that sometimes, event tho Im 100 pecent European, of nordic decent when I am out flying.. Even in to Norway, my native country I got that "paper please"... Becouse I am not excactly high and blond nordic type... For the most it is okay, Im have allways my passport - who is the only official documantation about YOU in Norway, hm, by the way I have to renew the passport... But in theory I can drive from Norkapp to Gibraltar, From Eire to the border with Russia, withouth showing my passport, as Norway is part of the Chengen border security system.. But if the police in another country was to ask, I have to show me my paper..

But inside Norway, or in scandinavia at least, the only thing you need to have, is your driver license, as your social security nr are a part of the document... Your name, where your driver license was given, and your social security nr (who most have had since the day we was born.. In some country you have somehting like an internal passport.. But for the most part in Europe it is easy enought to just show your driver lisence.. The police hav then all the information they need, to se what you have been up to the last couple of year...

Diclotican

[BlooInBloo]

53. Fail Jim Crow law defender is fail.

[Forkboy]

56. It was a pretty piss poor effort, wasn't it?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

83. There are a couple surprising faces on this thread defending it.

Guess you learn something new every day.

[callous taoboy]

57. A good friend of my brother is an Arizona cop, says they racial profile ALL the time.

[ShortnFiery]

69. Cops racially profile in NY City and Detroit too. It's not just the border states. eom

[a la izquierda]

61. And everybody shows their papers...

but I'm sure you knew that, and weren't being purposely disengenuous.
When you are stopped in Mexico...EVERY DAMN PERSON IN THE VEHICLE SHOWS THEIR PAPERS.

[CreekDog]

62. Oh, well then I guess that makes it okay

just sayin... :eyes:

[Iggo]

63. I have been stopped numerous times in the United States and asked for my papers.

Every time with probable cause.

Arizona is trying to make brown skin and loose clothing probable cause.

That's un-american.

Just saying.........

[ShortnFiery]

67. That's no different than the socialists in Europe. People carry all their identification whenever

they go out of the house.

Maybe I'm just used to this by having to travel all over the world twice over by the time I was 8 years old, but asking for your ID/papers is not, IMO, harassment when compared with even other first world countries.

[Iggo]

72. Brown. Skin.

[TexasObserver]

64. Mexico is not part of the United States.

Just sayin' ....

[ShortnFiery]

66. Same here for The Republic of Panama.

Because I dyed my brown hair "jet black" to better fit into the population, my husband used to tease me by calling me "his Panamanian Bride." My IDs were checked much more closely than those of blonde haired/light skinned military wives.

It doesn't bother me. I'm a US Citizen born on a US military base overseas. I started school in Singapore and have traveled all over the world.

One thing I know - I love America and feel blessed to be a US Citizen - I've already won life's lottery, IMO, with just that blessing. However, we need to care for "the least of us" to insure KARMA doesn't bit us in the butt and we FALL into a Third World Nation.

[DefenseLawyer]

73. The crime rate under Stalin was really low. n/t

[Greyhound]

74. I find the "I've never been hassled/documented/ripped-off by the Mexican authorities,

so it never happens" crowd to be quite American.

I'm not sure if it's really sad or just pathetic.

[WolverineDG]

90. Funny, I haven't

except when going through immigration checkpoints similar to those in the US.

and I've been to Mexico so many times, I've lost count.

dg

[ismnotwasm]

94. Best un-productive flame-bait I've seen in a while

Congratulations.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stupidity]

96. Good for you.

Would you like us to be more like Mexico, or perhaps we could aim a little higher?

[Bonobo]

97. Way to lower your expectations for what is acceptable in the US! eom

[miscsoc]

100. mexico has pretty fascistic immigration laws

until recently there was something like a ten year prison sentence for being in the country without the requisite papers

i don't see what difference this makes to the american immigration debate though, it isn't like each individual mexican immigrant in the u.s. approved mexico's fucked up policies in this regard. actually the sort of person who would be an illegal immigrant in the u.s. is unlikely to be a member of the elite who formulated those policies

[Canuckistanian]

103. And the US should emulate Mexico?

MOST civilized first world countries have laws against racial profiling AND excessive powers to law enforcement.

Do you think Mexico is one of those countries?

[David Zephyr]

105. In 50 years of traveling in and out of Mexico, I've never been stopped once inside the country.

I just do not believe you.

I have American friends who live in Baja and in Guadalajara. They are pasty white Caucasians like me, and like me, they have never, not once, been "stopped" or "asked for" papers as you claim.

I just do not believe you. At all.

And the underlying rationale for your OP is to justify the very ugly law in Arizona.

[cbdo2007]

109. You're lucky - I know people who've been stopped and robbed by the cops in Mexico.