Are they purposely trying to make immigration the "hot issue" for the next election?

[begin_within]

It seems like that's almost all I hear about lately... the AZ thing, now Duncan D. Hunter's offhand remarks... the whole Birther thing, the whole Amnesty thing... is this all orchestrated to make IMMIGRATION the hot-button issue for the 2010 and 2012 elections?

It's like they always have to present a bogeyman for you to be afraid of, and they will do something about it and protect you from said bogeyman. Years ago it was communists, then terrorists, then liberals, then gays, and now immigrants. The latest in a long line of "threats" for you to fear and for them to "protect" you from.

[DainBramaged]

1. I have been thinking the same thing, the Pukes PRESSING the issue

but here is their problem, they will LOSE BIG TIME EVERY MINORITY VOTE IN THIS COUNTRY if they continue to push their draconian solutions to immigration reform. Also, they may try to use it to slow down the Obama agenda, giving up battles to try and win the war in 2012.


But with the generals they have and the lack of money, I think they are screwed.


PS why would ANYONE unrec this thread. bunch of morons.

[Xipe Totec]

2. K&R

Even though the meter still shows zero.

I think you touched a nerve with the sock puppets.

[DJ13]

3. Of course

It serves two purposes from a GOP standpoint.

Hopefully takes the attention away from finance reform, and (I know many here dont want to believe this part) a majority of voters dont want illegal immigrants in the country which makes our party vulnerable on this subject.

[amandabeech]

10. Making undocumented immigrants legal in this economic climate is not a winning position.

I think that Obama made noises to satisfy the Latino/Hispanic coalition and is now backing off so that the Dems won't lose more seats than they need to.

I don't expect any positive action on immigration until the jobs situation improves a lot.

If the immigration caucus wants a bill, they're going to have to force Obama to move on jobs first.

[FreakinDJ]

14. [phone].... Bingo

[DJ13]

15. Agreed.

Trying to move on immigration reform in the current economic environment would only hurt the party.

[amandabeech]

16. Thanks for your support.

The thought police will get me soon, so a little love for a really simple post is very welcome.

[EFerrari]

21. The most positive action Obama can take is at the State Department

not at the border in any case.

And my understanding is that the people without docs who can go home, have gone home because there are no jobs here.

[amandabeech]

23. Yes, some people have gone home, just like they did in the 1920s

when the construction jobs dried up. This is nothing new.

I don't understand the first sentence of your post regarding the State Department.

[EFerrari]

25. There have been a group of people coming here seasonally forever --

since before our revolution.

But the floods we get now are usually from countries where our foreign policy makes their domestic life unlivable. I was completely floored to find out some years ago that a almost a quarter of the population of El Salvador came here because of Reagan's dirty wars and then, our propping up of the right wing oligarchs there at all costs.

A lot of these people are not looking for a better life. They're looking to survive, period.

[amandabeech]

26. Believe me, I know quite a bit about migrant labor.

I agree that we have made a huge mess in Central America and certain countries in South America. I have less sympathy for the Mexico. I've known about this for a very long time because a former colleague of mine was involved in helping Central American refugees back in the '80s.

If I were Obama, I'd get out of all "free" trade agreements and let U.S. companies escape to only those places that we've screwed over, like El Salvador. I'd like to help those folks in their own countries, not bring everyone here.

Nonetheless, I think that an immigration bill now would really hurt the Dems. I don't want any more years of Rethuglican rule and I will not support any bill that in my opinion could bring that hideousness back.

[EFerrari]

28. I do believe you know a lot about migrant labor. Your posts

are thoughtful and informative. And, I agree about an immigration bill.

It's interesting that the Republicans want to push this now when there are more vibrant democracies in LatAm than ever and when so many people have gone home. They're inflating the problematic parts of illegal immigration and inflaming nativism and they're doing it on purpose.

After listening to Palast talk to Thom Hartmann about suppressing the Latino vote, I'm trying to keep track of which states try to bring one of these bills. So far, OH, MO and TX in some form.

[amandabeech]

29. Thank you for your compliment. I try to bring my "A" game here.

I always take in your posts, too.

Unfortunately, Central America is still a mess, in large part do to our "interventions" there over the past 120 years or so. I really have sympathy for folks from there.

Nonetheless, I think that we have to concern ourselves most with our internal problems because no one will do it for us.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. I hope so.

The last time they did this they lost big.

[Sherman A1]

5. Don't give them too much credit

[customerserviceguy]

6. It's a touchy subject

in a fragile economy. I expect the Pukes to make HCR and immigration reform the centerpieces of their campaigns this year.

[robdogbucky]

7. I think they have two more major wedge issues to ignite before the next election

those being abortion and education. Immigration was right there with tax revolt (in their eyes taxes are part of the oppressive govt.) as we have seen already this year. You might get gun control and environmental issues in there, but rest assured these points of tension are deliberate, just like the birther and death panel promotions.

Teabaggers are the tools they use to promote whatever the latest campaign rolled out is.

Watch, it will be abortion and education.



Just my dos centavos


robdogbucky

[rucky]

8. There are 3 anti-immigrant bills in the Ohio state house right now.

and one in Missouri, I think.

[Atman]

9. It's this year's "Gay Marriage."

That was a bomb for the GOP. They're trying out some new old material.

.

[amandabeech]

12. Immigration is not gay marriage because it splits both parties.

The arguments here on the topic mirror those over on Free Republic. I kid you not.

On one side, you have xenophobes and those who don't want any more competition for jobs, any jobs. Don't start with me because I grew up in a heavy ag area and Anglos were up there looking for field work jobs last summer. It is that bad.

On the other side, are many recent immigrants, people who see immigration as a moral issue and businesses that want cheap labor.

The line doesn't cut cleanly, and lots of people who would be more welcoming in good economic times are against "reform" now.

My only surprise is that Obama's actually being politically smart by backing off.

[XemaSab]

11. Riddle me this, Batman

Why, in 8 years of a republican president, did we not see a border fence built?

Same reason abortion wasn't outlawed: it suckers people out to the polls every four years.

[begin_within]

17. Well, part of it was built

According to Wikipedia (which frankly, I eternally doubt the accuracy of),
"U.S. Customs and Border Protection reported that it had more than 580 miles (930 km) of fence in place by the second week of January, 2009."
That would mean 580 miles of it was built before Obama took office. I have seen a section of it, it is easily visible from Interstate 8 near Jacumba, California, and it really ruins what was a nice view. It's hideous and I don't think it stops anyone. If they really wanted to keep people out they should have just planted a long row of Jumping Cholla (Opuntia bigelovii) instead. That is a wicked, evil plant that I have firsthand experience with. A long row of those would be far more effective than a silly fence that can easily be defeated.

[FreakinDJ]

13. Shame it works so good for the GOP

[Cresent City Kid]

18. They're not trying to make immigration a hot issue..

they're trying to make financial reform a non issue. They can't have all the populist outrage aimed at Wall Street.

[MellowDem]

19. Perhaps...

but there are a lot more Hispanics than homosexuals, and immigration has a lot less of a evangelical Christian sort of priority.

[SargeUNN]

20. No it really isn't wanted by the GOP or Democrats

They have suffered in the past with this issue because it divides them too much. That is why Bush was told by Republicans to back off when he decided to tackle it, and now the National Republicans are trying to stay out of it or not coming out strong on it. They are not happy that Arizona has brought this out nationally so strong since they always lose strength when it does.

I think you will see Brewer lose and she knows it, so the repukes here in Arizona are trying very hard to send out the message that people overwhelmingly support it, that the Latinos are going to move out of Arizona because of it is to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Hannah Bell]

22. I read some analysis saying it was being played up so that the current admin could

institute their *own* "immigration reform," using the arizona, etc. (maybe colorado too) brouhaha as justification.

"In fact, the White House and the media have seized on the extreme right-wing Arizona law to promote their own reactionary and anti-democratic immigration agenda—legislation proposed by Democratic Senator Charles Schumer, of New York, and Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, of South Carolina.

Schumer and Graham spelled out the contours of their initiative in a March 17 column for the Washington Post. The bill’s central component would be the creation, in all but name, of an internal passport system. It would require “all US citizens and legal immigrants who want jobs,” to carry new, biometric Social Security cards “to ensure that illegal workers cannot get jobs.” In spite of Schumer and Graham’s protests that personal data “would be stored only on the card” and that “no government database would house everyone’s information,” the high-tech cards would offer the government a powerful new tool for monitoring the entire population."

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/apr2010/immi-a28.shtml

[Helga Scow Stern]

24. They make up an issue too as a plausible reason

for "winning" elections that in reality were stolen.

[pitohui]

27. yes abortion is boring because the women who vote are too old to need abortions EOM

.

[SoCalDem]

30. Every election cycle, they dust off the "bloody shirts"

no surprise ..it's all they have:)

SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat Jun-16-07 10:27 AM

Original message

It's just "bloody shirt" season..everyone calm down :)


A few years ago the naive ones were whipped into a frenzy over gay marriage & abortion.

This cycle it's all about immigration..

These tired old "issues" will never be "solved" in ANY election cycle. The pols want us to think they have great plans for "solving" these big issues, but they never really want them solved.

A problem solved, is a problem that cannot be waved under the noses of the base...if the base cannot be whipped into a voting frenzy, they might just stay home on election day.

Immigration as an issue is a lose-lose for everyone, since neither "side" wants to undertake the pain of really "fixing" it..

REAL ID cards/passports would HAVE to be issued in order to track who is legal and who is not.. The right and the left seem to hate that idea.

The constitution would have to be changed to deport families whose children were born here .. and no one would agree to deport Mom & Dad and institutionalize the US citizen children (that would cost too much money)..

Contrary to the right-wing-think, "Illegals" have bigger issues to contend with than how they can vote. These people spend 24-7 trying to stay unnoticed.. Showing up to vote is not something that many of them want to do anyway.

Congress is too chicken to really hit the problem head on.. The laws exist NOW, but they are too afraid to tackle the enforcement against the housing industry, the chicken processing companies, the meat-packing industry, the hotel & leisure industry, the agri-business people.

Local people do not like "seeing all those guys at Home depot" so that's the angle the congress can hit on..and so they do. They have local people all over..up in arms about the 'illegals' in schools, in hospitals and on the dole.. It works for their argument.

These same people are often conflicted too,m because when THEY need a cheap nanny, or some yard work done, they too will look for the cheapest labor they can find, so even at the grassroots level, there is no cut and dried "solution".

A few years back we hired a landscaper, and we paid $3500.00. Could we have paid less by going to Home Depot and bringing some "Mexicans" home with us? Sure!.. Did we? Nope. Our landscaping guy paid his workers $15 an hour. Are we chumps? maybe.. but I think not. If one of our guys had hurt himself working on our project, he would have been insured, and his injuries would have been taken care of,. but that's just us..

Right-wingers are conflicted because they want it both ways. they like the cheap labor, but they would prefer that it be done by eunuchs who come here just to do work for THEM for $5 an hour, and then disappear...until the next time they need some yard work or laundry done :)

It's all smoke & mirrors ..to rile up the base..and once immigration fades away, they will still have lots of time to drag out some of their other pet issues..

before we vote in '08, we will no doubt be treated to another round of :

vouchers
guns
god
abortion


Anything to avoid talking about :

the WARS
gasoline prices
health care
social security preservation
fair elections
the loss of good jobs in America
college expenses
media consolidation & the propaganda merchants

Those are issues that are really important, and they are the ones no one wants to talk about.




and from 2005


SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Fri Jun-03-05 10:21 AM
Original message

We caught the bloody shirt, and are now waving it wildly.


The republicans cannot get a toehold in our ranks with issues that are ingrained in the party. Things like unions, equality, education and environmental issue, among others, are so much a part of us, that we do not splinter because of those issues....BUT

they have found one that DOES work .....RACISM/Immigration.

Each one of us has a responsibility to acknowledge their plan, and vow to resist it.

In times of plenty..plenty of jobs..plenty of educational opportunities...plenty of money...plenty of options, immigration goes pretty much unnoticed, and actually welcomed.

After a few years of republican rule, jobs just "magically disappear", and the Darwinist Racism bubbles to the surface:

"MY financial situation is bad because of....."
"I cannot find a job because of...."
"MY kid's classroom is crowded because of...."
"Gasoline costs so much because of....."

The 'fill in the blanks' part of those issues, and many others, has been occupied by many disparate groups. At times it's been the Irish, the Italians, the Blacks, the Mexicans,the Haitians,the Chinese, the Laotians, the Vietnamese, the Cambodians..etc etc etc..

The biggest nastiest ploy they are using now is the one where they seek out 'democrats' willing to go on the record supporting draconian measures against immigration (from Mexico mostly).

The approaches they use are varied in their range of subtlety, and range from the 'in-your-face' Minutemen camped on the border with coolers, sunglasses, beach umbrellas and guns...to the silver-tongued so-called statesmen who blame every community issue on 'illegal immigrants'.

It's called scapegoating, and it's been around for a LONG time.

The Mexican children are NOT causing your schools to suddenly disintegrate....republican-style oversight of education is what's wrong with it.

The Mexican workers are not driving wages down... the republican bosses, and the lax enforcement of labor laws are doing it.

The Mexicans are not driving the cost of housing up..if ANYTHING, their slave-wages are keeping the costs artificially LOWER than they might be.

The Mexicans are not a Homeland Security threat..in fact they are conned into JOINING our military as a citizenship-for-blood scheme..our recruiting numbers would be even WORSE without their participation.

Perhaps that fantastic $6 an hour job you always wanted, DID go to an undocumented worker, so in the next "immigrant sweep" , that job trimming palm trees or plucking chickens might once again become available..

Immigration is the issue the republicans have chosen to infiltrate our ranks.. Be vigilant and don't fall for it.

They know they cannot divide us on religion, choice, civil rights, job creation issues & unions, environment and others, but they are chipping away with immigration, because down deep, ALL people are scared when they think their livelihoods are challenged.

No one wants to lose their job, their homes or their chance at education.

Republicans are always trotting out real people like "Ann Ecdotal" and her friends to make their point that if only we would 'get tough on illegal immigration', all our problems would be solved..

Think back about ...oh....FORTY YEARS...Remember when the 'war on drugs' would solve all our problems? We all know how well that is going.

Immigrants come here because they CAN. There are jobs here or support systems in place (usually family who preceded them). They pay into a system, using phony ID. Bosses accept that ID with a wink and a nod, not so they can pay their "legal" workers MORE, to provide a product or service for sale at a cheaper price, or provide better benefits with the money they save.. they accept the ID so THEY can keep the extra money saved.

They tell their new employees that they will have FICA and taxes withheld from their already paltry checks, and the new hire cannot complain, since he/she knows the documentation is fake.. So does anyone really think that the "boss" really matches his share of SS and sends in the payments to the government? They KEEP the money, folks..

As long as there is greed in America, there will always be "an immigration problem".

We will never "solve" the problem, because the people who COULD solve it, don't really think it's a problem.. They will NEVER admit it though.

[Kablooie]

31. Definitely yes. It's the RW hot button and will get people's minds off of Wall Street.