This massive spill that is growing screams the need for battery powered engines

[Divine Discontent]

At thousands of feet deep, and potentially months away from being stopped, the millions of gallons of oil that are going to destroy wildlife, food harvesting, beaches, and drive up costs - screams for a GREEN takeover!

We should be so much further along in world history regarding the advancement of fuel cells and green technology but it has been underfunded or outright stymied by industry. This spill could do so much damage to the coral reefs that they die, and billions could be lost in tourism. This is all very very frustrating and sad. BP announced they would cover the cleanup, but I wish more could be done to prevent this catastrophe - I mean, 90 days potentially to stop the oil flow 5000 feet down?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mGMUxSe_j0I/R2680rmY29I/AAAAAAAAAvo/-BEeen7_4hc/s400/coral+reef+-+living.jpg

The Australian spill comes to a beach, pictured below ----

[mikelgb]

1. I reserved a LEAF, you can too:

http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/

Available THIS YEAR

[Divine Discontent]

2. cool, thx

[tech9413]

3. I don't understant the idiotic resistance to electric powered

vehicles. An electric power plant can convert as much as 85% of the energy to useful output. An internal combustion engine only converts 8-10% of the energy to useful work. Where I grew up all of the mass transport was electric powered and they made money only charging pennies per mile. Even considering inflation that would be nothing compared to the cost of gas or diesel even at 50 MPG.

[Mother Smuckers]

4. Well, your figures are a little extreme but even if you could snap your fingers

and instantly convert every vehicle's IC engine to battery electric, our grid couldn't even come close to providing enough energy to charge them up.

We're kinda painted into a corner here...

[tech9413]

12. I fly radio control and have over 30 years in electronics

The biggest problem with electric is power storage for autonomous vehicles. Now that we have Li-Poly batteries that are much lighter weight and new technologies that would make them look like something from the dark ages, I don't think it will be that long.

The past few years electric RC planes have pretty much taken over. The motors are virtually indestructible, require nothing for maintenance other than lubrication and cleaning. The batteries are the fragile and expensive part. With some of the recent developments with nanotechnology, I don't think it's too many years before EV's can match IC engine vehicles in price and range.

That's just my two cents, take it for what you want, it won't chap my balls if you don't buy what I have to say or don't want to research it. Have a nice day!

[Mother Smuckers]

26. Energy is energy...however much it takes to overcome friction and drag

(which ought to sound familiar if you know something about planes) has to come from somewhere. Add up
all the joules being expended by motor vehicles and compare the figure to the capacity of the power grid and you'll see what I'm saying. Not that it's impossible, just that it is impossible NOW.

I wasn't trying to chap your balls, I have a little experience with electricity too...been an EE
for 43 years...and a commercial pilot for 40
:-)

[SoCalDem]

5. The problem is that , at its core, EVERY technology requires

mining coal, or uranium or drilling for gas if it's going through a power plant.

Batteries pose an additional hazard in the production & disposal end of things. The chemicals used are very dangerous for the workers.

we have basically technologized ourselves into a lose-lose situation.

Our "advanced" way of life has taken us down a road where everything we do, everything we consume, everything we use or wear has a toxicity built into it, either on the side of the production of it or in the impact when we toss it away.

The creation of jobs to make "stuff" that we use & then throw away is doing us in.

We like our comfortable lives, but it's not sustainable in the longterm. There are just too damned many of us , all putting pressure on our ecosystem. The one "positive" is that fertility rates are dropping, and once the worldwide Boomer population croaks, perhaps things might change for the better.. I hope so, for the sake of you younger folks.

[tech9413]

22. Ain't necissarily so

I'll admit that our current lifestyle exists on the presence of cheap energy. The first change has to be improving energy efficiency. If we do that we could reduce our need by 30% If we start implementing green energy we could probably cover a 30% cut in fossil fuel use. I'm not gonna post references to the #'s I'm referencing. As a DU reader, I expect you to have the the /reseach skills

[Confusious]

13. A gasoline engine is 20%-30%

A diesel is 50%. One problem has been energy density in batteries. They typically only allow 200 miles, they wear out, and the the best we have is lead/acid, which are toxic. The second problem is infrastructure, and the third is power generation. We would have to triple the amount of electrical generation in the US for everyone to have cars.

Which is not to say the oil companies haven't been holding things up also.

[protocol rv]

23. How was life on Procyon III?

Tech9413, this is Robot2329, I landed on earth last year, still getting used to eating carbonized dead animals. So how was life on Procyon III, where you could have such wonderful public transport? I imagine you were using Vulcan trubofibrilators attached to Gungsa beasts?

[taterguy]

6. Batteries don't have any negative environmental impact.

:eyes:

Here's my idea, and it's a good one: Stop driving to places that you can easily get to by walking or biking.

Oh wait. That takes effort.

Nevermind.

[Bluebear]

7. Which impact is worse, oil or batteries?

" :eyes: "

[taterguy]

8. Didn't read past my header did ya?

Right back at ya:

:eyes: :eyes:

I guess I could thoroughly research the issue and point out how many millions of (energy unit of your choice) is wasted by people that have this irrational need to be conveyed by something fueled other than themselves, but, well, Jeopardy's coming on soon and I don't want to miss it.

[Bluebear]

9. Yeah, I read the whole dismissive simplistic thing. You made a claim before researching it?

Heavens no, not you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. What claim did he make that you think he didn't research?

The claim that batteries have environmental problems?

Or the claim that if people were really serious about the environment, they should do something practical about it instead of just discuss some vague dreamy notion that they're not really going to follow up on?

[Divine Discontent]

15. let me spray you with some disinfectant... sometimes talking to some folks leaves an icky substance

that could leave you susceptible to illness. I'm here for you! :rofl:

[Bluebear]

16. :)

Ever so much better.

[taterguy]

21. Icky substance? Really?

I posted an opinion.

What's so toxic about that?

[Confusious]

14. We should shrink the cities

Have roman forum type places in central parts of neighborhoods. That would be cool.

I could live with walking or biking everywhere, and maybe driving 4 times a year if I wanted to go farther.

Most of go home<--> work. It's a massive waste of energy to have a car.

[Bluebear]

17. I am totally in for that. Meanwhile, I am 50 miles from work

It sucks. But there is *no* mass transit available.

I really envy the countries with modern and widespread mass transit options.

[Cali_Democrat]

11. Batteries are charged using electricity and electricity is mostly generated from coal

nt

[IDemo]

18. About half is coal generated

But even in areas using coal, the CO2 output per electric vehicle is lower per mile than for internal combustion power.

http://www.electric-cars-are-for-girls.com/electric-powered-cars.html

[marmar]

19. And better electric-powered transit

[Canuckistanian]

20. We really should have had electric vehicles available in the 90's

And before you start with the "technology wasn't ready yet", it WAS. And even if it wasn't perfected, it could have been by now. There's NO earthly reason why I SHOULDN'T be looking at electric vehicles in my local car dealer showroom RIGHT NOW.

Yes, I saw "Who Killed the Electric Car", but I'm also a technically educated person who's watched car developments over the years . Almost ANY electric car venture has been underfunded, denied "patented" technology or has been just plain under-marketed. The major car companies have held the key to any success. And they did NOTHING. Oh, except for that little "failed experiment" called the EV1.

Even today, when technology can produce a car that fits PERFECTLY with my driving needs, I still see NOTHING in those gleaming showrooms.

I WANT AN ELECTRIC CAR. NOW.

[Divine Discontent]

24. that last line - me too!!!

[Cleobulus]

25. Every choice has a cost, particularly if you want to keep the American culture of cars on the road.

Electric vehicles will have to have many power plants built to accommodate the need of charging so many vehicles. The environmental costs of manufacturing the batteries, and vehicles themselves will have to factored in.

Let's say we replace the millions of cars out there now with electric ones, so we transfer our pollution from burning oil to burning coal and natural gas, that's not an improvement. Even if we used what we call renewable sources of electricity to charge these vehicles, we are going to have pollution problems in the making of batteries and the disposal of batteries as well.

Nothing is free, everything has a cost, remember that.

[hobbit709]

27. Electric motors are no problem

The problem is the batteries. Slow charge time and limited range needs to change. If you can get 300-400 miles on a charge and it only takes 15 minutes to recharge, then they become practical for any distance driving. Cost is another factor. On my limited income I can't afford a new car of ANY type-internal combustion, hybrid or electric.