What's the difference between the Liberal Democrats and Labour?

[Syrinx]

I posted on the same general topic recently, but I didn't ask the specific question.

Most of the Brits that responded to my post seemed to indicate that Nick Clegg is to the left of Gordon Brown. Though, I think I remember at least one who disagreed.

I don't know much about British politics, but I'm trying to learn something. Their process seems a lot better than ours in America to me. I hope that isn't considered heretical. :)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

1. I'm curious too.

I'm glad you asked, I'm married to a Brit and he isn't sure himself.

Michael Caine was talking about this on the Daily Show. I have to LOL tha the considers England a "communist country without the dictator". Shame.

[Syrinx]

2. yeah, I saw the Daily Show

I didn't quite catch what Michael Caine said. I think I heard him say something about "his policies aren't what you think." Was he talking about Clegg? Or Brown, or Cameron? :shrug:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

3. He was saying thank goodness Labour is gone. Then he said that

Clegg and Co. used to be the laughingstock of Parliament, but all of a sudden because of the debate, people are taking them seriously and liking them-until they hear what they have to say.

Caine is a big anti-Tax Thatcher fan so...there you go.

[Syrinx]

5. I hate to hear that

I've always been a Michael Caine fan. And I'll still be, I guess. But that's disappointing news.

[ingac70]

4. The Lib Dems used to be the centrist party....

But in recent years Labour has become DLC like.

[paulsby]

6. it's not heretical. it's the required attitude in DU

as i point out when it is evidenced post after post, thread after thread.

comparing a country, ESPECIALLY a european country or canada to the US, and calling it or its system(s) better is practically REQUIRED on DU

the opposite is heresy. will get you called a nationalist, etc.

[pampango]

7. From my perspective, it seems that the Lib Dems are further left on some issues and Labour on others

"As Clegg demonstrated in last week's leaders' debate, the Lib Dems are more independent in foreign policy, and progressive on civil liberties, than New Labour."

"...analysis of the parties' programmes by the Institute for Fiscal Studies shows http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/4853">the Lib Dems' tax proposals favour those on middle, not low, incomes.

Labour's tax plans were rated more progressive, and the Tories' far and away the most heavily weighted in favour of the rich, underpinned by the fastest and deepest cuts in public services. Given that they have clung tenaciously to their inheritance tax handout to the richest estates and boasted of their "Big Society" plans to break up the welfare state in education and health, that should hardly be a surprise.

But then nor is the revulsion of former Labour voters at a decade of war, social authoritarianism, privatisation and widening inequality."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/28/brown-gaffe-all-progressives-lose

"The Liberal Democrat leader’s support for an amnesty for hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who have lived in the UK for a decade or more and who have obeyed the law since, was highlighted sharply by his two opponents."

"The Liberal Democrats’ manifesto pledge would lead to a new wave of illegal migration, Mr Brown declared, though he too came in for criticism for failing to curb it during Labour’s 13 years in power. Meanwhile, Mr Cameron sought to damage Mr Clegg for his past support of the euro single currency: “Let me tell you one thing I wouldn’t do. With Greece so much in the news, I can guarantee you that I would never join the euro and I would keep the pound as our currency. That’s the change we need and if you vote Conservative next Thursday, we can start to get to work on Friday.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0430/1224269372514.html

So what are the policies of the three major parties (on immigration)?

Labour's policies include:

* Continuing to use the Points Based System (PBS) to flexibly manage immigration so that as the economy recovers, there will be an increase in employment and wages, not immigration (local people will also be prioritized in the public procurement process).
* An intention to continue work on earned citizenship proposals, including tightening the criteria for acquiring probationary citizenship to include economic criteria and a focus on British values.
* Continuing the ID card scheme for migrants and British citizens, to be self-financed through the price of British passports, the ID cards and reduced fraud across public services.
* Expanding the Migration Impacts Fund, which is a national fund to assist with the cost of managing the short term impacts of migration on local communities.
* Introducing tougher English testing, to be undertaken by all applicants pre-entry.
* Seeking to lead the agenda of the European Union with a view to delivering jobs, prosperity and influence for the United Kingdom.

The Liberal Democrats promises include:

* Introducing a regional points based system with a view to ensuring that migrants are only able to work where they are needed.
* Increasing enforcement activity within the immigration system through implementing more rigorous checks on businesses, targeting employers who profit from illegal labour and prioritising the deportation of criminals and people traffickers.
* Reintroducing exit checks at all ports and airports.
* Dismantling the ID card scheme and the next generation of biometric passports.
* Giving the national Border Force police powers.
* Allowing law abiding families to earn citizenship.
* Allowing illegal migrants who entered the UK up to 2010, who have been in the UK for 10 years, speak English and have a clean record to earn citizenship, thereby reducing the exploitation of illegal workers and expanding the tax base.
* Incorporating the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child into domestic legislation and prohibiting the detention of children for immigration purposes.
* Working within the EU structure to ensure that the UK is best placed to be strong, safe and influential, whilst campaigning for better accountability, efficiency and effectiveness of the EU.
* Requiring a referendum prior to the UK agreeing to any fundamental change in the relationship between the UK and the EU, and before joining the European currency (noting that the party is in favour of the UK joining the Euro in principle).

http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=99466

-On taxes it sounds like Labour is more progressive, while the Lib Dems plan is more geared to middle rather than low incomes.
-On defense spending, the Lib Dems are against building Trident submarines, while Labour and Conservatives are for it, so the Lib Dems may be for lower defense spending. On the wars I haven't noticed much difference between Labour and Lib Dems.
-On the EU, the Lib Dems seem to be for closer integration with the EU while Labour wants to maintain the status quo. (Which is more "progressive depends on your vantage point. In the UK it's the right-wing parties (BNP and UKIP) that are Eurosceptics and want the UK to withdraw from the EU, while most liberals support the UK's involvement with the EU. American progressives may have a different take on whether more or less EU is good for the UK.)
-On civil liberties, the Lib Dems may be more progressive. One reason is that they oppose a national ID system that Labour is pursuing.
-On immigration, the Lib Dems seem more pro-immigration but Labour is not anti-immigration. Lib Dems are proposing an earned citizenship for some illegal migrants, while Labour will continue to work on developing such a proposal. (I didn't see what Conservative proposes to do with illegal migrants. Of course, the far-right not only want so stop all immigration but a voluntary repatriation of non-white immigrants, including those who have become British citizens.)

I'm sure than some of our UK DU'ers will have a much better idea of the differences between the two parties. :)