famous smokers we have known: what they died of, & when

[Hannah Bell]

1. Albert Einstein (pipe, cigarettes)

d. 1955, age 76, ruptured aortic aneurysm





2. Johnny Weismuller (life-long non-smoker)

d. 1984, age 80, of pulmonary edema after breaking hip & leg in 1964 & suffering series of strokes.





3. Alexander Graham Bell (pipe)

d. d. 1922, age 75, diabetes & pernicious anemia



4. Adolph Hitler (life-long non-smoker)

d. 1945, age 56, ? suicide or assassination. vegetarian non-smoker who reportedly suffered from sinus & dental problems.



5. J. Robert Oppenheimer (pipe & cigarettes, chain smoker)

d. 1967, age 63, throat cancer x 2 years





6. Roy Castle (life-long non-smoker, British entertainer)

d. 1994, age 62, lung cancer. Castle, a non-smoker, blamed his illness on years of playing the trumpet in smoky jazz clubs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/945122.stm.



7. Artie Shaw (cigarettes)

d. 2004, age 94, died at home after month-long illness.

clarinetist & bandleader who first hired billie holiday to sing with white band in smoky jazz club.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_94wGm5Prdv0/SmIyNKEhjYI/AAAAAAAAD7k/N3JIHOrkvi4/s400/1949+Ava+Gardner,+Artie+Shaw.jpg



8. Edwin Hubble (pipe)

d. 1953, age 64, cerebral thrombosis (blood clot in brain)





9. low birthweight children of smoking mothers:

"The low birth weight paradox is an apparently paradoxical observation relating to the birth weights and mortality of children born to tobacco smoking mothers. Low birth weight children born to smoking mothers have a lower infant mortality rate than the low birth weight children of non-smokers. The same is true of children born to poor parents, and of children born at high altitude."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_birth_weight_paradox



10. Winston Churchill (cigars)

d. 1965, age 91, decline following series of strokes beginning age 78





11. Helen Hayes (non-smoker)

d. 1993, age 93, congestive heart failure.



12. Franklin D Roosevelt (cigarettes)

d. 1945, age 63, cerebral hemmorrhage

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9CwLw9kpS5E/SP_NJD9-SPI/AAAAAAAAA3k/ZRbdxzNwzpM/s320/FDR+Smoking.jpg



7. John F Kennedy (cigars, cigarettes)

d. 1963, age 46, assassination





8. Jackie Kennedy Onassis (cigarettes)

d. 1994, age 65, non-hodgkins lymphoma



9. Charles Lindbergh (non-smoker)

d. 1974 at age 72 of lymphoma.




10. Gerald Ford (pipe, reportedly 8 bowls/d)

http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/g38.htm

d. 2006, age 93, from cardiovascular disease, health problems began ~ age 90. smoked at least into the 1980's.



11. Jimmy Carter (life-long non-smoker)

still going strong at age 86.



12. George Orwell (cigarettes)

d. 1950, age 47, burst lung artery secondary to tuberculosis

http://www.jameslindlibrary.org/trial_records/20th_Century/1940s/MRC_bmj/bastian.html.





13. Oscar Wilde (cigarettes)

"I'm glad to hear you smoke. A man should always have an occupation of some kind. There are far too many idle men in London as it is."

d. 1900, age 46, meningitis & heartbreak





14. Jean-Paul Sartre (cigarettes, pipe)

d. 1980, age 75, pulmonary edema





15. JR Tolkien (pipe)

d. 1973, age 81, following his wife's death, of loneliness. basically healthy until wife's death.





16. CS Lewis, Irish writer (pipe)

d. 1963 age 65, end stage renal failure as sequelae of kidney infection/inflammation (nephritis) + heart attack.



17. Keith Richards (cigarettes & whatever)

still living & smoking, apparently healthy, at age 67

"The Rolling Stones' guitarist Keith Richards has slammed the UK government's ban on smoking in public areas. 'It's politically correct bullshit,' says keith"

http://www.nme.com/news/nme/35538

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2010/02/02/keith_richards_refuses_to_stop_smoking





18. Dana Reeve (life-long non-smoker, wife of christopher reeve)

d. 2006, age 44, lung cancer



19. Sophia Loren

still living, age 76; pack & 1/2 habit starting in her 20s until she quit in her 50s.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&langpair=de%7Cen&u=http://www.stern.de/kultur/film/sophia-loren-eine-diva-wird-70-529892.html







20. Luciano Pavarotti (cigars)

d. 2007, age 72, pancreatic cancer x 1 year.



21. Paul Robeson (non-smoker)

d. 1976, age 77, stroke following "complications from a "severe cerebral vascular disorder" & history of government harrassment + possible surreptitious administration of drugs.





22. John Wayne (chain-smoked cigarettes, switched to cigars & chewing tobacco after successful lung cancer surgery 1964, age 57)

d. 1979, age 72, stomach cancer x <1yr.

"Among the 220 or so cast and crew who filmed the 1956 film, The Conqueror, on location near St. George, Utah, ninety-one had come down with cancer, with an unheard of 41 percent morbidity rate, including stars Wayne, Susan Hayward, and Agnes Moorehead. The film was shot in Southwestern Utah, east of and generally downwind from where the U.S. Government had tested nuclear weapons in Southeastern Nevada..."






23. Frank Sinatra (chain-smoker, cigarettes)

d. 1998, age 83, dementia + heart attack






24. John Lennon (cigarettes, etc.)

d. 1980, age 40, assassination.





25. George Harrison (cigarettes, chain smoker, quit in 60s, started again briefly in 90s & quit again)

d. 2001, age 58, lung cancer + mets following 1997 throat cancer at age 54



26. Ringo Starr (cigarettes)

reportedly smoked 3 packs/day for years, still living & healthy at 70.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/the-beatles/7142630/The-Beatles-drummer-Ringo-Starr-admits-I-have-found-God.html





27. Paul McCartney (cigarettes + long-standing pot habit)

McCartney still alive & apparently healthy at age 68.

"United States poster companies have airbrushed the classic Beatles Abbey Road album cover to remove a cigarette from Paul McCartney's hand. The original copy shows a barefoot McCartney third in line on the famous road crossing holding a cigarette. But politically correct US poster companies have airbrushed out the offending cigarette, to the delight of anti-smoking campaigners.

All of the Beatles were heavy smokers during the 1960s and 70s."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2681219.stm



28. Jeanne Calment (cigarettes)

d. 1997, age 122, of combined causes.

one-time "oldest person in the world," oldest person to have met van gogh, smoked until age 117, reportedly two cigarettes/d.

http://www.nme.com/news/nme/35538



29. Joan Riudavets Moll

d. 2004, age 114, of "old age." smoked "in moderation" until death. died peacefully & healthy until death. one-time "oldest person in the world"

http://slick.org/deathwatch/mailarchive/msg01285.html.



30. Audrey Hepburn (reportedly life-long 2+ packs/d)

d. 1993, age 64, abdominal cancer originating in appendix x 3 months from diagnosis





31. Alfred Hitchcock (cigars)

d. 1980, age 81, kidney failure.





32. Pablo Picasso (cigarettes, apparently to an advanced age)



d. 1973, age 92, at a dinner party. last words reportedly: "Drink to me, drink to my health, you know I can’t drink any more.”



33. Che Guevara (cigars)

d. 1967, age 39, assassinated






34. Joseph Stalin (pipe, cigarettes)

d. 1953, age 75, official dx = stroke but ? assassination. In power & apparently healthy until his sudden death.



35. Deng Xiaoping ("panda" brand cigarettes into his 90s)

d. 1997 age 93 of lung infection + parkinsons. worked in top political position until 1989 (age 85).





36. Henry Ford (life-long non-smoker)

d. 1947, age 83, cerebral hemmorrhage. retired 1 year earlier.



37. Dick Nixon ("Richard Nixon, although not a regular smoker, enjoyed ritualistic cigar puffing as a statesmanlike gesture with other leaders")

d. 1994, age 81, stroke.



38. Harold Nixon (Dick's brother, non-smoker)

d. 1933, age 24, tuberculosis



39. Arthur Nixon (another Nixon brother, non-smoker)

d. 1925, age 7, encephalitis/meningitis



40. Mao Zedong (cigarettes)

d. 1976, age 83, of heart attack, after several years of declining health. officially led china until his death.

www.gettyimages.com/detail/3307472/Hulton-Archive



41. Fidel Castro (cigars, quit at age 59)

still living & making some public appearances at age 84. declining health since his mid-70s. seen by an intestinal cancer specialist in 2006 at 80 y/o. resigned his duties officially in 2008, age 82.





42. Saddam Hussein (cigars)

d. 2006, age 76, murdered by George W. Bush





43. Ayatollah Khomeni (non-smoker)

d. 1989, age 86, of heart attack after 11 d. in hospital for internal bleeding.



44. Dean Martin (cigarettes)

d. 1995, age 78, untreated lung cancer x 2 years. also suffered from emphysema & ? alzheimers since 1991.



45. Freddie Mercury (cigarettes, reported "heavy" smoker, quit at HIV dx)

d. 1991, age 45, AIDS.



46. Leonard Cohen (cigarettes, 2 packs/d most of his life)

was still smoking in 2001, while living off & on as a buddhist monk:

"He has another sip of coffee, lights another Marlboro Light...What attraction could such a sparse lifestyle have to a man who accompanies most new sentences with a freshly lit cigarette?"

has since quit.

at age 76 is still living & touring, apparently healthy after “about 500 tons of whiskey and millions of cigarettes,” & a career partly dependent on his raspy smoker's voice.

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/2449527/Leonard+Cohen+295701100462.jpg



47. Frank Zappa (cigarettes)

d. 1993, age 53, prostate cancer, supposedly developing x 13 years.

FRANK ZAPPA - Well, I'm not here to impinge on anybody else's lifestyle. If I'm in a place where I know I'm going to harm somebody's health or somebody asks me to please not smoke, I just go outside and smoke. But I do resent the way the nonsmoking mentality has been imposed on the smoking minority. Because, first of all, in a democracy, minorities do have rights. And, second, the whole pitch about smoking has gone from being a health issue to a moral issue, and when they reduce something to a moral issue, it has no place in any kind of legislation, as far as I'm concerned.

JON WINOKUR - But if you look at the studies, side-stream smoke is harmful.

FRANK ZAPPA - I'm not buying the data. First of all, it comes to you from the United States government. If you thought by stamping out all tobacco smoke in the United States you were going to improve the quality of life for everybody in the country, you'd be a lunatic. The things that will really harm you, the government won't touch.

http://home.online.no/~corneliu/curmudge.htm.





48. Sigmund Freud (cigars)

d. 1939, age 83, suicide, after 30 operations for mouth cancer x 15 years. smoked til he died. wrote to his doctor during this period:

"I have not smoked for seven weeks since the day of your injunction. At first I felt, as expected, outrageously bad. Cardiac symptoms accompanied by mild depression, as well as the horrible misery of abstinence. These wore off but left me completely incapable of working, a beaten man. After seven weeks I began smoking again...Since the first few cigars, I was able to work and was the master of my mood; before that life was unbearable."





49. Walt Whitman (non-smoker)

d. 1892, age 73, of pneumonia + tuberculosis, following stroke in 1873 at age 54.


50. Mark Twain (cigars)

d. 1910, age 75, heart attack following depression over deaths of daughter & friends, one day after Halley's comet passed by.

"I came in with Halley's Comet in 1835. It is coming again next year, and I expect to go out with it. It will be the greatest disappointment of my life if I don't go out with Halley's Comet. The Almighty has said, no doubt: 'Now here are these two unaccountable freaks; they came in together, they must go out together.'"

[Obamanaut]

1. OK, smoke 'em if you got 'em. But you still gotta pay the tax on 'em. nt

[alphafemale]

2. um...and your point is?

This makes no sense.

[myrna minx]

3. .

I have no idea. :shrug:

[Hannah Bell]

5. makes no sense? it's a list of 50 famous smokers & non-smokers by age at death & cause of death.

[alphafemale]

9. Yeah...so?

They might as well be 50 random, unknown people.

It's meaningless.

[Hannah Bell]

18. they're random famous people instead. sorry you don't get it.

[alphafemale]

21. It's not surprising that smoking doesn't limit the lifespan of everyone who does it.

Just a substantial number of them.

Should babies not ride in car seats? After all, not EVERY baby who rode in a car while carried in his mother's lap was propelled through a windshield or became an airbag.

[Hannah Bell]

23. Motor vehicle accidents are still the leading cause of death, disability & injury for US children.

Despite carseats being mandatory in all 50 states. First state mandate = 1978.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rMYit9W6j6QJ:www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/childpas.htm+automobile+accidents+children+cause+of+death&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Maybe we should tax cars & gas at over 100% of their cost?


It's not just "doesn't limit the lifespan of everyone who does it".

Did you notice the causes of death & lengths of illness of the non-smokers?

They also die of "expensive" things & have lingering illnesses.

In general, one's health declines in old age, & one dies.

Maybe you'll be the exception.

[alphafemale]

24. Is your assertion that tobacco use is not a health risk?

I think you are in deep, deep denial.

But keep puffing.

Maybe you'll be one of the "lucky" ones and die from assassination or something. :sarcasm:

[Hannah Bell]

129. is your assertion that auto accidents aren't the #1 cause of death for children?

i think you're in deep, deep denial.

maybe you'll be one of the "lucky" ones not to die from "something".

but i doubt it.

[MajorChode]

151. Red herring

[Hannah Bell]

156. straw man

[MajorChode]

172. I think you've had too many cigarettes

You are making even less sense than normal and that's a pretty good trick.

Cheers!

[Hannah Bell]

174. ad hom

[MajorChode]

178. Fail

You need to have an argument first before their can be "ad hom", but even if you did it would be quite hypocritical of you to make such an accusation in the first place, no?

Cheers!

[Hannah Bell]

196. argumentum assholum

[MajorChode]

206. Why am I not surprised you'd resort to name calling sooner or later?

Game, set, match!

Have a nice day.

[Hannah Bell]

207. argumentum hypocritum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8251281&mesg_id=8256689

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8236518&mesg_id=8261386

[MajorChode]

208. Thanks for proving my point

Cheers!

[Hannah Bell]

209. ad nauseum

[MajorChode]

218. Is that a request, or is your online Tourette's acting up again?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8251281&mesg_id=8259038

[LanternWaste]

233. While I understand that there is both a specific...

While I understand that there is both a specific and a relevant positive cost/benefit ratio for driving automobiles in our culture, what is the overall collective and positive benefit that has at its source, smoking?

And I ask this as a pack a day smoker since 1984... the only analysis I can come up with is that I have an addiction. :shrug:

[harkadog]

162. Life is a health risk.

But I'm sure you will be an exception.

[joeybee12]

229. Agreed...amazing how non-sensical someone can be to justify his ADDICTION...n/t

[Obamanaut]

27. So this thread IS about the tax on smokes.

"Maybe we should tax cars & gas at over 100% of their cost?"

[Hannah Bell]

130. for the children, you know. and other innocent victims of the filthy driving habit.

[Zoeisright]

127. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!

Wow, one of the dumbest posts ever.

Keep on sailing down deNial. Do you work for the tobacco industry? Because you sure sound like it.

[Hannah Bell]

131. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!

keep on shoveling that straw!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

96. If you think these are "random" people, you do not know the definition of "random"

[woo me with science]

116. "Sorry you don't get it."

You seem to have to say that a lot in your threads. :rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

138. only to yuppies.

[woo me with science]

144. ...

:rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

145. Moral Panic

Concern - There must be awareness that the behaviour of the group or category in question is likely to have a negative impact on society.

Hostility - Hostility towards the group in question increases, and they become "folk devils". A clear division forms between "them" and "us".

Consensus - Though concern does not have to be nationwide, there must be widespread acceptance that the group in question poses a very real threat to society. It is important at this stage that the "moral entrepreneurs" are vocal and the "folk devils" appear weak and disorganised.

Disproportionality - The action taken is disproportionate to the actual threat posed by the accused group.

Volatility - Moral panics are highly volatile and tend to disappear as quickly as they appeared due to a wane in public interest or news reports changing to another topic.<1>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic



Moral Panics: The Social Construction of Deviance

http://books.google.com/books?id=SbY2Mksi1kcC&printsec=frontcover&dq=moral+panic&source=bl&ots=KI-1LS1cgW&sig=79RXn9uowQPao51PumkFaLel98M&hl=en&ei=XKzcS6LuFYKSsgOuj6iGBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCcQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=moral%20panic&f=false

[woo me with science]

150. I wholeheartedly agree! Moreover, I would add,

[Name removed]

157. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

28. so the fuck what, hannah?

what do you think this proves? Do you believe this is evidence that smoking is not harmful to health?

What is your point?

[RiverStone]

105. There is no point - what an idiotic thread.

I've spent 20 years in education and those kids that smoke, and those kids that comes from homes where one or both of the parents smoke --- suffer significant ill effects.

To each his or own own, and it's Hannah's right to chose her poison. Why celebrate it tho?

[BreweryYardRat]

4. THANK YOU.

I'm so tired of people going "quit smoking, it'll kill you!" like it's going to happen day after tomorrow. I'm 21 -- I could smoke twice as much as I do now (pipe, average of 4-6 bowls a day) until I'm 30 and be all right. I'll have to quit before I get too old, because nicotine's a vasoconstrictor and there's a family history of heart attacks. Might as well enjoy smoking while I can.

[Hannah Bell]

10. the underlying point of the list is: one never knows, does one?

smoker & frequenter of smoky clubs artie shaw lived to 94 in his own home.

smoker pablo picasso lived into his 90s and dropped dead at a dinner party.

smoker & frequenter of smoky clubs george harrison died in his 50s of metastatic lung cancer after quitting in his 30s.

smoker sigmund freud lived to 83 but spent the last 15 years of his life getting pieces of his face removed.

life-long non-smoker dana reeve died at 44 of lung cancer.


then there's this guy: tobacco, booze, heroin & speed couldn't kill him until his 80s.

[ima_sinnic]

17. please, by all means, smoke however much you want, whenever you want, as long as you want

if it means so much to you.

apparently smoking is a high priority for you, something to which you would devote no small amount of time to researching ages/cause of death & smoking status of celebrities, downloading photos, composing of text -- to what end? all I can figure is to support your own habit. keep telling yourself it's harmless and no burden on society if it makes you feel better.

gee, maybe you could even overturn decades of research with your own little project here and convice the entire country that all antismoking campaigns are unnecessary.

maybe we should reinstall cigarette vending machines, and put them in schools!!!1!

[Hannah Bell]

20. lol. yes, it's all about my desire to smoke.

died at 83 the day after a heart attack after a lifetime of smoking, boozing, being a heroin addict, speed freak & gay person in the age of aids, working up to the week of his death.





life-long non-smoker, died at age 44 after being treated for lung cancer for a year.




god's jest.

too bad you don't have a sense of humor.

[ima_sinnic]

35. what is your point then? (nt)

[DebJ]

171. Wow. I've been a chain smoker for 30 years and even I

couldn't go this far into denial.

[Hannah Bell]

216. you also seem to have missed the point.

[amborin]

67. aortic aneurysms are linked to smoking; so, too, abdominal cancers;

so, some of the examples of 'other' causes of death in smokers are actually linked to smoking


i think you're trying to say smoking doesn't necessarily increase risk of death?

but the list is anecdotal and thus proves nothing (and also includes illnesses that are, indeed, linked to smoking)

[Kalyke]

68. False argument.

I contend that researcher and doctors blame EVERYTHING on smoking when they can't figure out the actual cause - or don't want to let the public in on the actual cause because it may mean we cut back on some preservative or driving or something some big corporations wants us to eat or do.

[amborin]

142. not false; lots of evidence & research; sorry you aren't aware

[Hannah Bell]

122. you missed the point.

[amborin]

143. what was the point?

i think you were suggesting people died from many ailments unrelated to smoking, despite smoking

was that not your point?

please tell me what the point was if that wasn't it

otherwise; aneuryism are linked to smoking; drs recommend males over 60 who have smoked get checked yearly for aortic aneurysms

[Touchdown]

202. And judging by the emotions in this thread, possibly assassinations too!

;)

[RiverStone]

106. How about a thread with pictures of the 440,000 people that die each year from tobacco?

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ped/content/ped_10_2x_cigarette_smoking_and_cancer.asp :think: :puke:

[Hannah Bell]

109. do you know how many people *die* in the us every year?

get that number & you'll figure out how your bogus statistic is derived.

[CTyankee]

135. Who is he? He looks somewhat familiar but...

[Hannah Bell]

137. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_S_Burroughs

[CTyankee]

148. thank you

[Dulcinea]

77. Thanks for this!

I enjoyed reading this list. I also enjoyed reading the self-righteous comments from the anti-tobacco crowd, who clearly despises the fact that not every smoker dies from tobacco-related causes.

Eventually everyone will die from something, whether they smoke or not. Just because YOU find smoking disgusting is no reason for everyone else to share your opinion, or for these nanny-state smoking bans (instituted by corporate America b/c smoking & smokers COST THEM MONEY.)

How many DUers rant on & on about legalizing pot, but rail constantly about tobacco?

So leave smokers alone. Keep your sanctimoniousness to yourself. :smoke:

[Love Bug]

199. When I was 21, all of my smoking friends of the same age said the same as you

"I can always quit." We're in our mid-50s now and most of them still smoke, not because they want to, but because they can't quit. Hey, you might get away with smoking your pipe until you are 30 and are still able to quit. If that is the case, then lucky you. However, since you have a family history of heart disease, I will mention that my father had his first heart attack at 39 and he smoked a pack a day. He did quit smoking then but the damage was done. He died at 49 of heart disease, after a decade of taking medication and limiting his activities.

We can always find some guy who smoked cigars and drank a pint of whiskey every day and lived to 100 but that still doesn't mean it's a good idea or has no consequences. It's not just when/how you die, but the quality of life, too. People with emphasema can live several years hauling around a tank of oxygen. Strokes don't always kill and sometimes neither do heart attacks, but they can leave a person in much worse shape than before.

Youth is truly wasted on the young.

[Hannah Bell]

211. the thread was not created to argue that smoking is a "good idea" or has no risks.

[midnight]

6. "I'm glad to hear you smoke. A man should always have an occupation of some kind

There are far too many idle men in London as it is." I love that line....

[trumad]

7. Another attempt by a smoker to rationalize a hideous nasty addiction----

nothing more---nothing less...

Oh---and I got a picture to:

[Hannah Bell]

15. cigarettes, alcohol, heroin, speed, died at 83, after a heart attack the night before.

productive into his final days.





fortunately people don't wear their lungs on their outsides.

[trumad]

33. I guessing you smoke Hannah?

[Bonobo]

45. But Truman smoked and you took his name for your profile,so WTF?

Right, Truman?

[John1956PA]

8. This is just a puff piece.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

:evilgrin:

[ET Awful]

11. LMAO.

Well done.

[Earth Bound Misfit]

12. ....puttin' up a smokescreen

:silly:

[Arugula Latte]

93. ...blowin' smoke up our asses

:P

[Earth Bound Misfit]

101. Tutti fumo, niente in forno.

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

:rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

13. :>)

[ET Awful]

14. Well shit, I guess everyone should start smoking immediately then.

After all, all those scientists and doctors who have proven conclusively that smoking can cause cancer, heart disease, stroke, emphysema, etc. have no clue what they're talking about.

[Hannah Bell]

16. well, that's certainly the logical conclusion one should draw from such a list, no doubt about it.

(sarcasm)

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boppers]

25. Well put.

Nobody gets out alive.

[cali]

26. bwahahahaha

I can't believe you put all this time into this idiotic post.

:rofl:

[alphafemale]

29. I know. I don't even understand the point of it.

Not everyone who smokes dies from the effects.

Yeah.

We already knew that.

I'll post an image. Took me less than a minute.

[Obamanaut]

30. Just for fun, have there been any cases of people burned to death

by someone smoking in bed? And the non-smokers and the not-so-famous who may have died in the same fire must be included in that also.

[mainer]

69. Plenty.

Just ask an M.E.

[depakid]

31. Keith Richards, 18 December 1943 -

[ipaint]

32. "The things that will really harm you, the government won't touch."

Boy, that's the truth.

But as usual they will throw out a piece of red meat, in this case those nasty smokers, for the holier than thou crowd to gnaw. Then pull out the right wing personal responsibility meme and tax the shit out of all the newly created moral degenerates.

Voila! They've avoided taxing the rich once again with the help of the oh so enlightened non smoking progressives.

Played like a fiddle.

[ima_sinnic]

39. personal responsibility is not a "right wing meme" until it's convenient for you

for example, if someone is drunk and kills someone while driving, should that person not take "personal responsibility" for his actions? Or should he use the excuse, oh I was drunk, I have a drinking problem because society never gave me any breaks, and "personal responsibility" is a right-wing fucktard "meme" --?

Some aspects of life ARE subject to "personal responsibility." Choosing to smoke, inflicting harm on others' health and on society in terms of public health, air pollution, pollution of water and soil resources by chemical inputs in tobacco growing and cigarette manufacture, use of fossil fuel in fertilizing and harvest of tobacco and manufacture and distribution of cigarettes, littering (not only the butts but also the wrappers, boxes, and cartons), and fires, is a personal decision that one must be RESPONSIBLE for, no matter how much smokers want to rationalize that the "meme" of "personal responsibility" is "right wing" so it is bogus.

[ipaint]

112. I'm not a smoker but you just keep gnawing.

Tax, tax, tax, punish, punish, punish, it's all about the individual, especially those with little money. Real easy targets.
Funny how that works- ALL aspects of life are subject to personal responsibility but the punishments that the rich dish out are hundreds of times more punitive and cruel to the low income folks. Middle class progressives can still buy their cigarettes, hell maybe they miss a night on the town occasionally poor things, but punishment no. That's for those on the low end of the economic ladder.

A regressive tax is a regressive tax and a progressive pushing a regressive tax is a progressive pushing right wing ideology as a "solution".

[laughingliberal]

65. Agree 100%. nt

[CBR]

34. I was always told it was the DLC sending operatives to DU not

Marlboro.

[Sebastian Doyle]

84. Well considering the tobacco companies are among the DLC's top funders

(just as they are with the admitted Republicans) is there really a difference?

[CBR]

128. and the OP apparently. nt

[Hannah Bell]

141. wait, i thought i was funded by schools, or by nambla. i wish you guys would make up your minds.

[awoke_in_2003]

203. I always hated....

Marlon Brando look alikes :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_of_Marlon_Brando_Look-Alikes

[skipos]

36. Awesome

Up next... a list heroin users who have long productive lives? People who have lots of condomless sex with prostitutes but don't have STDs? Gambling addicts who win lots of money?

Let me know when you post a list of the ODDS (not cherry picked individual cases) of non-smokers vs. smokers getting cancers, living longer, etc.

[Bonobo]

37. Hey now! No shades of grey allowed here on DU! Didn't you know?

Being assertive progressives means taking a firm stand on EVERY issue.
We must not -nay cannot- strike that, MUST not is better after all -allow any issues to confuse or obfuscate the singular scintillating truth of our correctness!

What the hell!?!? Am I stoned? Why did I write that?

[NoPasaran]

38. Looks like smoking increases one's chances of being assassinated

[Hannah Bell]

107. ;>)

[phaseolus]

40. Two responses

1. I'm a non-smoker, and used to be kind of an insufferable weenie about it, but I've lightened up in my old age. I realize I'm going to wind up breathing a little smoke once in a while, but I don't let it ruin my day. I just try to avoid breathing LOTS of smoke, or I get nausea and headaches.

2. Something to be aware of, regarding people responding to your post -- it's not an I-hate-everything-to-do-with-smoke reaction, like it might seem at first blush. It's something else: a strong foundation in science/math/statistics.

If there are questions that can be answered by collecting data, and when multiple factors are at work, there are well-defined, well-understood ways to design the experiment and collect the data to zero in on the truth. Your list is interesting, and does demonstrate your point, but it's unscientific and thus doesn't demonstrate certain other points. You're correct that, considering one individual, you never know what's going to be the factor that does him in. However science does allow us to quantify many risks with a great deal of certainty (...after other experimenters duplicate the results and it all stands up to scrutiny, of course.)

The statistical methods they use aren't belief any more than 1+1=2 is an opinion. It's the only way to determine the truth about certain questions... hence the responses calling your list meaningless. Like the famous quote says, "the plural of anecdote is not data."

[woo me with science]

41. Logical reasoning skills after a lifetime of smoking.

we should all be very concerned.

.

[phylny]

42. Fails to mention

that every one of the smokers stunk to high hell. I work with a young woman who smokes. She uses breath mints, but somehow they don't freshen her LUNGS, and every time she speaks, she still stinks of smoke.

I see a child for early intervention and I have to schedule the visit at the very end of my day because when I leave the house, even though not one cigarette is smoked, my hair, my clothes, my skin reeks of smoke.

It disgusts me to no end.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. You assume that a smoker wishes you to be close?

One of the main reasons I smoke in public is to keep the jerks at bay. So you know, there is that. Something to consider. Smoke can be like square bane, keeps the pickers of nits and the bigots far away. Love it. One of the best features of smoking.
And you say it like it is a bad thing. You'd not want to come near me, and the feeling is mutual, see?

[Name removed]

50. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madmom]

61. My son and daughter-in-law both smoke. When my grandkids come for a

visit, they reek of smoke. I am sure they like it that way. There's nothing like giving your grand-daughter a hug and start coughing and choking because her hair and clothes smell of cigarettes, I'm sure their friends like it that way too. BTW the oldest is 11, the 5 year old has chronic respiratory problems, gee I wonder why?

[Tailormyst]

64. If you are coughing because of the residual smell of cigarettes then perhaps you should see a doctor

It's one thing to not like the smell, if you are having a physical reaction that's a bit bizzare.

[madmom]

66. No it's not that bizarre, they reek of smoke. I have seen a doctor. My husband and

daughter also non-smokers cough and gag at the smell. It is very unpleasant. That from an ex-smoker, I quit when I became pregnant and never started up again.

[noamnety]

70. I view that the opposite way.

Having a physical reaction to inhalation of toxic fumes is a healthy thing - it's a survival instinct.

Perhaps the ones who should seek medical help are the ones whose bodies are reaction with pleasure to inhaling toxic fumes.

[Tailormyst]

201. They aren't inhaling toxic fumes.

Not talking about being around smoke. Being around a residual smell is not inhaling toxic fumes.

[Doremus]

170. Do you have a fireplace? Barbeque? Do you choke and cough when you use them?

If not, you are a hypocrite.

And, no, cigarette smoke is NOT different. Well, except there's less of it in comparison.

[madmom]

189. No fireplace, and yes I do cough and choke when around a BBQ, that's why I

usually let hubby do it if HE wants, outside, while I stay away. I'm no hypocrite I complain about all kinds of pollution to my lungs, I also complain when someone wears, no bathes, in their cologne to the point it chokes. They may have the right to do it, but I have to right to breathe without someone else's addiction harming me. I quit smoking about 25 years ago, I feel better for it, I'd like it to stay that way.

[LeftishBrit]

244. Idon't know the situation in the USA..

but in the UK, especially in cities, there are LOTS of restrictions related to burning fuel in fireplaces, and many 'smokeless zones' where only smokeless fuels can be used. These restrictions were instituted by the Clean Air Act of 1956, after the Great Smog in London in 1952 resulted in many deaths.

[pipi_k]

75. So let's see....

It probably costs, at minimum, around $60.00 per week to smoke and, as you say, keep the people you hate so much ("pickers of nits" and "bigots") away.

It turns your fingers and teeth yellow. Fills your lungs with tar and whatever else is in cigarettes. Probably makes you cough up chunks (if not now, then eventually it will), makes you stink long after the cigarette is out, and forces building owners to either put out stinky smelly ashtrays that someone else has to empty, or risk having lots of cigarette butts thrown around on their property.

If you hate people so much, wouldn't it be a whole lot easier...not to mention cheaper...to just wear a sign saying "I Hate People...Get The Fuck Away From Me!!!!"


I dunno...why do people always find the most complicated ways to offend others?

:shrug:

[phylny]

182. When I have to be in their home

to provide services to their child, I have no choice, see?

[workinclasszero]

139. THANK YOU!

Smokers carry a vile stench on their person I can smell a mile away! YUUUUCK!

Their houses stink to high heaven. The cars make you wanna puke! their is a brown film over ever square inch of their possessions and living spaces.

SMOKING F***IN STINKS!

[Hannah Bell]

158. The white house is covered in brown film!!!! our president carries a vile stench!!! oh noooooooo!

[KG]

43. some days, DU is pure comedy gold.

:eyes:

[robcon]

44. Agreed. The illogic of the OP is hilarious.

n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

49. It is making a point, the OP is not even trying for logic

You don't get it. Try this one on for size. Obama smokes. Yet here on DU, I could name several posters who will first support anything Obama does because he is 'a brilliant chess master' and then claim that all smokers are idiots who can not read. The irony and lack of logic in the hyper active non smokers is amusing. And that is at least part of the point, that logic steps away when this issue is spoken of. Same people will claim that Obama is the smartest person in America, and that all smokers have to be mentally stunted. No logic. Logic is not the point, nor the customary method of discussion.
Keep looking for that logic, maybe you will find the punchline at some point. Right over your head....like smoke!

[hfojvt]

51. are those really the same people?

Are you tracking people that closely? Both of those statements sound like hyperbole and I have a hard time believing anybody said them "Obama is the smartest person in America, and that all smokers have to be mentally stunted."

[Bluenorthwest]

53. People take positions as described

I did not suggest that I was quoting specific people. General examples. And both stances are taken by various posters here, absolutely. Not just here either. Also in the real world.
Playing word games is not what I'm here for. This is not a rhetoric game. I made a point. If you do not like it, prove me to be wrong, rather than question my honesty. Feel free. Show us how wrong I am.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madmom]

62. But isn't Obama trying to quit?

[dionysus]

228. .

:rofl:

[chrisa]

71. I really don't know where to start with this one.

It's like a rapid fire of logical fallacies.

[Bonobo]

46. Whiners on this thread should watch a movie like "A Serious Man".

Or maybe not. There are no facile, glib answers in that one either. It is bound to disappoint.

[Sheepshank]

48. Yul Brynner

is missing

[Upton]

52. You're a drug addict..

using much of the same excuses and rationalizations for your bad behavior that every addict uses....

I pity you and I encourage you to quit smoking..not just for your own health, but that of your friends and loved ones as well..

[hayu_lol]

55. Actually, we have never seen any stats at all...

a breakdown of ages at death of smokers. For example, how many 90 year olds have died of smoking related causes? How many 80 year olds? No stats forthcoming.

How many naysayers(those against)know that the average life expectancy of males born in 1900 was just 50 years? Note the ages that Hannah has gathered here for you. Most more than exceeded the average.

Thanks Hannah.

[Hannah Bell]

140. i see a list of facts, not sure what you see. but i pity you too. smooch!

[seabeyond]

54. a little bet of reason, and tone down the hate.

i think that might be a reason for this op. to oppose something you dont like is one thing. the hate is a whole different thing. here is a poster that truly floors me on a suggestion with smokers. this unreasonable thinking feeds out in so many areas. we say ok with one area, not ok with others, actually outraged when other issues, like abortion, is addressed in this manner. but totally acceptable with smoking. to suggest denying medical care? what person would go that far.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8251281&mesg_id=8251693

[ima_sinnic]

72. it was the hateful attitude of the person I was responding to, not the fact that he smokes

that attitude of "I smoke to keep people like you away from me."
Good, because the feeling is mutual.

[seabeyond]

73. wtf... how is that hateful. wishing someone dead? wishing someone sick not cared for?

the person was addressing another ugly post. why do non smokers act as if it is a loss for their company when their personality alone makes a person not want to be around them? the unreasonable, the hate, right here, starts immediately

why do we hear from non smokers at every turn, .... i dont want to be around you. well fuck, ... fine, what a loss, go away.

and that is your reason for saying dont medically care for the sick

you could just say, .... you went over board. but you justify the ugly

[ima_sinnic]

79. duh--doctors tell people not to smoke--poster wants "people like that" to stay away

therefore, I said I hoped his dr felt the same way, i.e., was also a smoker and could understand the animosity toward people he hates--i.e., those whom he feels disapprove of his smoking--AS A DR WOULD.

but continue wringing your hands over the poor widdle miscreant who enjoys smelling like a smokestack to "keep people away"

[seabeyond]

80. doctors should turn away the person that drinks too much. doctor should turn away fat people

doctors should turn away the person that enjoys high risk activity

doctors should turn away

hand wringing? no

but do continue to show your ugly. now baby talk? wow

[ima_sinnic]

83. feel free to go on about it however you wish--I said none of those things

obviously (as evidenced below, also) anything anybody says is evidence of "hatred of fat people" if smokers turn them off, and it also means that they believe drs should turn away people who engage in "high risk behavior." care to go on? I had no idea this was what I was "saying," but you know better than me what I'm posting, I guess.

whatever, enjoy your outraged day.

[Flaneur]

85. Smokers are miscreants?

[seabeyond]

87. along with smokers having no moral scruples, they should not be allowed medical care.

kettle calling out the pot

[ima_sinnic]

89. obsessed much? and continuing to distort what I posted, I see (nt)

[seabeyond]

90. doctor and dentist turn away smokers. (means, denying them health care). miscreants

means no more scruples.

back up how i am in anyways distorting what you are saying.

keep posting ugly stuff, i will keep calling you out. stop posting ugly stuff, i stop calling you out. if that is obsessiveness i have to wonder about your obsessiveness at being hateful to your fellow man.

[ima_sinnic]

92. feel free to go to a dentist stinking like a smokestack

and with a big chip on your shoulder about how you "want people like that to stay away"--THAT is what I was responding to, but don't bother to get any context or read any other posts. Just sit there all judgmental like and continue to obsess about the fact that people who stink of smoke WILL be complained about and even ridiculed, esp. when they say they're doing it ON PURPOSE.

[Hannah Bell]

110. i wonder how obama's dentist can *bear* it!!!!

[ima_sinnic]

88. actually, I meant misanthrope-

about that particular poster and his hateful attitude

[seabeyond]

86. btw... as you do your little kid voice, you might want to insult the appropriate poster

instead of randomly insulting. i said nothing about keeping people away

[ima_sinnic]

91. sheesh, this wasn't about you, but apparently you want it to be

I was responding to criticism of my response to post #47--did you even read it?

and I am done with this exchange, because obviously you don't even know what is being talked about but you have plenty of opinions about it.

[-..__...]

57. Lemmm-ieee!!!

12/24/45, age 64




:headbang:

[rucky]

58. What I learned from this.

Sophia Loren is Smokin Hot!

[TexasObserver]

59. It's a tribute to the folly of early weaning.

If only they'd had a little more time on the nipple, they could have saved years of smelling like a chimney.

[otohara]

60. Chemicals Now vs Then

I remember when I used to smoke back in the 60's/70's and remembering how ciggies didn't smell so awful as they do now. Now there's some 4000 chemicals in smokes.

My kid will sometimes have an American Spirit ciggy and it does not smell as bad as a Marlboro

As I recall, cigarettes cause cholesterol - so if someone dies of an aneurysm - it could be linked to high cholesterol.

[laughingliberal]

63. Smoking can cause increased cholesterol levels. However, my cardiologist once told me

he was not concerned with a high cholesterol reading I once had due to the fact that I do not have any signs of CAD or vascular diseases and almost no family history. IOW, he saw no reason to subject me to cholesterol lowering drugs with all the potential side effects based on an insignificant (in my case) lab reading. His point was cholesterol levels, in and of themselves, mean absolutely nothing. Very difficult to find examples of people with 'lipid disease' where there is not a genetic component. In those cases (lipid disease) even 'normal' cholesterol levels can be too high for the patient. My husband's family as a case in point suffers from lipid disease and they have arterial disease as the result of it even though most of them have never had a level high enough to qualify as outside the 'normal.' Even with a cholesterol level below 100 my husband is supposed to be on a dose of statins which is double the usual dose and his vascular surgeon once said he would not be in favor of lowering the dose unless he saw the cholesterol level at 40. There is way more to vascular and lipid diseases than the simplistic ideas most people in our country are aware of.

[Hannah Bell]

111. +100 for your cardiologist.

[Stuckinthebush]

74. List of famous people who died from smoking

http://www.clivir.com/lessons/show/famous-people-who-died-from-smoking-related-diseases.html

Famous People Who Died From Smoking Related Diseases

Cancer has no respect of persons. Meaning, it doesn't matter what your station in life is, cancer does not discriminate. You can be rich or poor, famous or not so famous. If you smoke, your risk of dying from a smoking related illness is extremely high.

Below is a long list of famous people who died due to smoking related illness and disease:

Allen, Gracie, 58, actress; heart attack (August 27, 1964) The Burns and Allen Show Allen lived with George Burns, an inveterate cigar smoker, for 38 years; she had a long history of heart problems.

Ambrose, Stephen E., 66, historian; lung cancer (October 13, 2002) Band of Brothers, The Good Fight, Nothing Like it in the World

Armstrong, Louis, 74, musician, heart attack (July 6, 1971) Armstrong, a smoker, advertised Camels.

Arnaz, Desi, actor, lung cancer (December 2, 1986)

Astor, Mary, 81, actress; emphysema (September 24, 1987) The Maltese Falcon

Baldwin, James, 63, author, esophageal cancer.(November 30, 1987) Go Tell it on the Mountain; The Fire Next Time

Ball, Lucille, actress, aortic aneurism (Helen Gurley Brown claims cause of death was "smoking-induced lung cancer") I Love Lucy Lucy & Ricky Call for Philip Morris See the "I Love Lucy" entry at the Female Celebrity Smoking LIst

Bankhead, Tallulah, 65, actress; lung cancer or emphysema (December 12, 1968) The Blue Angel

Barger, Carl, President, Florida Marlins; aortic aneurysm (December 9, 1992)

Basie, William "Count", 79 Band Leader; pancreatic cancer (1984) smoker; advertised camels

Becaud, Gilbert, 74 Singer; cancer (December 17, 2001) Et maintenant (What Now My Love?)

Bel Geddes, Barbara, 82, Actress; lung cancer (August 8, 2005) First "Maggie" in " Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" on Broadway; Miss Ellie Ewing, "Dallas"

Benson, Renaldo "Obie", 69, Singer; lung cancer (July 1, 2005) The lung cancer was discovered when he had a leg amputated several weeks before because of circulation problems The Four Tops "Baby I Need Your Loving,'' ''Reach Out (I'll be There),'' ''I Can't Help Myself,'' ''Standing in the Shadows of Love.'' Wrote

"What's Goin' On?"

Benny, Jack, 80, comedian/violinist; pancreatic cancer (December 26, 1974)

Benaderet, Bea, 62, TV actress; emphysema/lung cancer (October 13, 1968) Beverly Hillbillies, Burns & Allen, Petticoat Junction, Betty Rubble's voice in The Flintstones

Bernstein, Leonard, 72, composer, conductor; heart attack due to lung failure (October 14, 1990)

Blake, Amanda, 60, actress; throat cancer complicated by a type of viral hepatitis brought on by AIDS, according to her physician, Lou Nishimura. (August 16, 1989) Miss Kitty on Gunsmoke; At 48, Blake, once a 2-pack a day smoker, had a malignant tumor removed from her tongue; she re-learned how to speak, toured for the American Cancer Society, and fought oral cancer until her death 12 years later. President Reagan presented her with the ACS's "Courage Award" in 1984. Dr. Nishimura contributed his information in a 1991 UPI item.

Blakey, Art,71, jazz drummer and band leader; lung cancer (1990)

Blass, Bill,79, fashion designer; throat cancer (June 12, 2002)

Brand, Neville,71, actor; emphysema (1992)

Bogart, Humphrey, 57, actor; cancer of the esophagus (January 14, 1957)

Boone, Richard, 64, actor; throat cancer (January 10, 1981) Have Gun, Will Travel; The Kremlin Letter

Brand, Neville, 69, actor; decorated WWII soldier; emphysema (April 16, 1992) D.O.A., Stalag 17, That Darn Cat!

Brinegar, Paul, 77, actor; emphysema (March 27, 1995) Wishbone, Rawhide

Brynner, Yul, 65, actor; lung cancer (October 10, 1985) The King and I Diagnosed in 1983, Brynner made a memorable anti-smoking commercial.

Buckley, William F., Jr., 82, prominent conservative author (February 27, 2008) Had suffered from emphysema--which he ascribed to inhaling cigars--and diabetes. Considered the father of the modern Conservative movement, he was the Founder and Editor of "National Review." In a column published 3 months before his death, Buckley commented on the cause of his emphysema: Half a year ago my wife died, technically from an infection, but manifestly, at least in part, from a body weakened by 60 years of nonstop smoking. I stayed off the cigarettes but went to the idiocy of cigars inhaled, and suffer now from emphysema, which seems determined to outpace heart disease as a human killer. Stick me in a confessional and ask the question: Sir, if you had the authority, would you forbid smoking in America? You'd get a solemn and contrite, Yes. -- Buckley, "My Smoking Confession" NY Sun, Dec. 3, 2007.Butler, John, 56, General Manager of the San Diego Chargers football team, lung cancer (April 11, 2003)

Calhoun, Rory, 76, actor; emphysema (April 28, 1999) TV: The Texan, Capitol Calhoun's Chesterfield ad is PM Bates# 2023238532

Caldwell, Erskine, 83, author; lung cancer (April 11, 1987) Tobacco Road, God's Little Acre

Candy, John, 43, actor; heart attack (March 4, 1994) Second City TV; Planes, Trains and Automobiles

Carson, Johnny, 79, talk show host; emphysema (January 23, 2005). Carson also had heart problems, including a bypass operation in 1999. The Tonight Show

Caruso, Enrico, 48, opera singer; absesses from pleurisy of the lungs (August 2, 1921) Smoked 2 packs of Egyptian cigarettes a day.

Cassidy, Jack, 50, actor; died in a fire from smoking in bed (December 12, 1976) Father of Patrick, Shaun and David Cassidy

Clooney, Rosemary, 74, singer, actress; lung cancer (June 30, 2002) MOVIES: White Christmas SONGS: Come on-a My House

Cobb, Ty, 74, baseball player; cancer, diabetes, chronic heart disease (July 17, 1961)

Cole, Nat "King", 45, singer, first African-American TV show host; died after surgery for lung cancer (February 15, 1965) The Christmas Song, Unforgettable

Cooper, Wilhelmina Behmenburg, 40, model; lung cancer

Connors, Chuck, 71; actor; lung cancer (November 10, 1992) The Rifleman

Coward, Noel, 73, playwright, entertainer; heart attack (March 26, 1973

Cooper, Gary, 60, actor; lung cancer (May 13, 1961) High Noon, Sgt. York Advertised Chesterfields

Cooper, Wilhelmina Behmenburg, 40, modeling agency pioneer; throat cancer (1980)

Crawford, Victor,63, tobacco lobbyist-turned-tobacco-control-advocate; lung cancer (March 2, 1996) Coined the phrase, "Health Nazis" I used the oldest trick in the book -- when there's no way you can attack the message, attack the messenger. There was no way I could attack anything advocates said about health and addiction and win. It wasn't even an option. So I'd always say, `Well, the jury's still out on the health stuff, but that's not the real issue. The real issue is freedom of choice, freedom of choice, and these health Nazis want to take it away!'"

Crosby, Gary, 61, author, son of Bing Crosby; lung cancer (August 24, 1995) Going My Own Way (1983)

Davis, Bette, 81, stroke (1989)

Davis, Jr., Sammy, 64, entertainer; throat cancer (May 16, 1990)

Dederich, Charles E., 83, addiction counselor, heart and lung failure (March 4, 1997) Founder and head of Synanon, Dederich in 1971 decided not only to stop supplying his community of ex-heroin addicts cigarettes without charge but also to ban smoking on Synanon property. The next year is one of the most tumultuous in Synanon's history to that point. About 100 people left. At least one member told the New York Times that quitting tobacco was much harder than quitting heroin.

Desmond, Paul, 52, musician, composer, bon vivant; lung cancer (May 30, 1977) Alto saxophone; Take Five with Dave Brubeck quartet

Dewhurst, Colleen, 67, actress, lung cancer (1991)

Diamond, Selma, 64, actress; lung cancer (May 14, 1985) Night Court, My Favorite Year, It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World

Disney, Walt, 65, animator, producer; lung cancer (acute circulatory collapse following an operation to remove a tumor)

(December 15, 1966)

Dorsey, Jimmy, 53, musician, bandleader; lung cancer (June 12, 1957) So Rare, Tangerine

Downey, Morton, Jr. , 67, talk show host, actor ("The Mouth"); lung cancer (March 11, 2001) The Morton Downey Jr. Show.

Duisenberg, Wim , 70, heart attack, July 31, 2005 Former European Central Bank chief who helped create the euro currency. Duisenberg "died a natural death, due to drowning, after a cardiac problem."

Eliot, T.S., 76; author, poet; emphysema (January 4, 1965) The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock, The Hallow Men, Murder in the Cathedral

Faria, Mimi, 56; singer, activist; complications from lung cancer (July 18, 2001) Reflections in a Crystal Wind, Bread and Roses founder; sister of Joan Baez, wife of Richard Faria

Ellington, Duke, 75; composer/band leader; lung cancer/pneumonia (May 24, 1974) Sophisticated Lady, It Don't Mean a Thing if It Ain't Got that Swing

Fenneman, George, 77; announcer, actor; emphysema (May 19, 1997) Groucho Marx sidekick, You Bet Your Life

Finks, Jim, 65; football team president/manager; lung cancer (1993) Much-admired New Orleans Saints football team president and general manager. Credited with helping to bring about the return of the Chicago Cubs and New Orleans Saints. From Tobacco News, 6/10/93: There is no smoking anymore on the grounds of the New Orleans Saints' mini camp. Signs went up on orders of owner Tom Benson, after . . . Jim Finks was diagnosed with lung cancer April 30. "There's no smoking anywhere on the Saints property," Coach Jim Mora said. "And I mean anywhere."

Fitzgerald, F. Scott, 44, writer; heart attack (December 21, 1940) The Great Gatsby

Fleming, Ian, 56, author; heart attack (August 12, 1964) James Bond novels

Flood, Curt, 59, baseball player/free agent advocate; throat cancer (January, 1997)

Flynn, Errol, 50, actor; heart attack (October 14, 1959) Robin Hood, Captain Blood Sidelight: In his youth, Flynn ran a tobacco plantation in New Guinea

Fosse, Bob, 60, dancer/choreographer, smoked 4 packs a day; heart attack (1987)

Freud, Sigmund, 83, cancer of the jaw (1939)

Gable, Clark, 59, actor; heart attack (November 16, 1960) The Misfits

Gainsbourg, Serge, 63, poet, pop singer-songwriter, actor and director; heart attack (March 2, 1991) Je t'aime... moi non plus

Gargan, William, 73, actor; heart attack (February 17, 1979) 50s TV detective series, Martin Kane Gargan would hang out at Happy McMann's Tobacco shop, touting his sponsor's products. His career ended when he lost his

larynx to cancer in 1960. He became the spokesman for the American Cancer Society, speaking out against smoking.

Gassman, Vittorio, 77, Actor, author; heart attack (June 29, 2000) Bitter Rice, Mambo, Scent of a Woman (1974) "Suffering chronically from emphysema, bronchitis, high blood pressure and depression, the cigar-smoking Gassman

abandoned stage acting in February, telling his final audience ruefully: 'Death does not obsess me--it disgusts

me.'"--LA Times, 7/1/00

Giamatti, Bart, 51, baseball commissioner; heart attack (1990)

Godfrey, Arthur, 80, radio/TV entertainer; emphysema (diagnosed with lung cancer in 1959, then recovered after surgery) (March 16, 1983) Arthur Godfrey's Talent Scouts "Smoke 'em by the carton"; also advised people not to smoke, but if they did, to smoke Chesterfields.

Goizueta, Roberto, 65, Coca-Cola CEO, lung cancer (October 18, 1997)

Gordon, Dexter, 67, saxophonist, throat cancer (March 25, 1990)

Gotti, John, 61, Mafia Don, throat cancer (June 10, 2002) The once-powerful boss was 100lbs when he died, and hadn't eaten solid food in a year.

Grant, General Ulysses S., 63, throat cancer (July 23, 1885) 18th President of the US

Grable, Betty, 56, "pin-up" girl, actress; lung cancer (July 2, 1973) How to Marry a Millionaire

Gray, Les, 57, singer, heart attack. (February 21, 2004) The lead singer of 1970s chart topping band "Mud" had been battling against throat cancer, and had opted for chemotherapy over removal of his voice box.

Gzowski, Peter, 67, Radio host ("The Voice of Canada"); COPD/emphysema (January 24,, 2002) Morningside

Guardino, Harry, 69, actor; lung cancer (July 17, 1995)

Hamilton, Carrie, 38, writer, producer; lung cancer (January, 2002) Daughter of Carol Burnett

Hammett, Dashiell, 67, writer; lung cancer (January 10, 1961) The Maltese Flacon; The Thin Man

Hansberry, Lorraine, 34, playwright; lung cancer (1965) A Raisin in the Sun, To Be Young, Gifted, and Black

Harrison, George, 58, musician; lung cancer (November 29, 2001) The "Quiet Beatle." He had been battling various forms of the disease for at least three years: In 1998, he underwent radiation therapy for throat cancer, which he attributed to years of smoking.

Haynes, Lloyd, 52, TV actor; lung cancer (December 31, 1986) General Hospital, Mr. Dixon in Room 222

Hayward, Susan, 55, actor; lung cancer metastized to her brain (March 14, 1975) I'll Cry Tomorrow, I Want to Live!

Heckart, Eileen, 82, actress, cancer (December 31, 2001) Butterflies Are Fee, Bus Stop, Somebody Up There Likes Me

Hellman, Lillian, 79, author; lung cancer (June 30, 1984) The Little Foxes, The Children's Hour

Henderson, Joe, 64, jazz tenor saxophonist; heart failure following a long bout with emphysema. (June 30, 2001)

Hobbs, Elsbeary, singer; throat and lung cancer (May 31, 1996) Bass singer with The Drifters; Under the Boardwalk, On Broadway, There Goes My Baby

Holliday, Judy, 43, actress; throat cancer (June 7, 1965) Born Yesterday

Humphrey, Hubert, Vice-President under Johnson, 66, bladder cancer (1978)

Huntley, Chet, actor, news commentator; lung cancer (1974)

Huston, John, 81, director; emphysema/pneumonia (1987)

Howard, Mo, 77, actor; lung cancer The "boss stooge" of The Three Stooges

Ives, Burl, 85, actor; oral cancer (April 14, 1995) Cat on a Hot Tin Roof; The Big Country

James, Dennis, 79; announcer, actor, game show host; lung cancer (June 5, 1997) Voice of Old Gold Cigarettes when they danced, died of lung cancer 30 years after quitting smoking. Had spurned lucrative tobacco contract after SG's report.

Jennings, Peter, 67, newscaster; lung cancer (August 7, 2005) Anchorman, ABC's World News Tonight

Jones, Lindley Armstrong ("Spike"), 53; comedic composer/band leader; emphysema (May 1, 1965) Smoked 5 packs a day

Jones, Etta, 72; singer; lung cancer (Oct. 16, 2001)

Karloff, Boris, 81, actor; heart and lung disease (emphysema) (February 2, 1969) Frankenstein; Targets

Kaufman, Andy, 35, lung cancer (1984)(Kaufman only smoked in-character, but played for years in smoky clubs.)

Keaton, Buster, 71, deadpan silent film actor; lung cancer (February 1, 1966) The General

Kendrick, Eddie, 52; singer; (1992) The Temptations. Asked kids not to smoke.

King Edward VII of England, 69, pneumonia; he suffered for years from a series of heart attacks, chronic bronchitis and emphysema. (May 6, 1910) As the Prince of Wales he helped make smoking, and particularly cigar smoking, fashionable. He smoked twelve large cigars and twenty cigarettes a day. In 1876, he gave Benson & Hedges its first royal warrant. Edward VII became king on the death of Queen Victoria in 1901, at the age of 59. Legend has it that he said to his friends in Buckingham Palace upon his mother's death: "Gentlemen, you may smoke."

King Edward VIII of England, 77, throat cancer. May 28, 1972 Later titled as: Duke of Windsor when he abdicated the throne to marry Mrs. Wallis Warfield Simpson.

King George V of England, 70; he suffered from bronchitis and numerous lung problems; his death was thought to be from a viral respiratory infection. (January 20, 1936)

King George VI of England, 56; a lung cancer sufferer who had had part of his lung removed, he died of a massive heart attack. (February 6, 1952) Father of Queen Elizabeth II

Kleban, Edward,48, songwriter/lyricist; "complications from cancer of the mouth" (December 29, 1987) Kleban won a Pulitzer Prize and a Tony Award for the lyrics of A Chorus Line Founded the Kleban Foundation,which awards grants to lyricists.

Knapp, Caroline, 42; writer; lung cancer(2002) Drinking: A Love Story; Appetites In "Drinking," she attends a stop-smoking session, but decides alcohol is her real problem; is puzzled when her dying mother askes her to give up smoking."Appetites" does not address smoking at all.

Knotts, Don 81,actor; lung cancer (February 24, 2006) "The Andy Griffith Show," "Three's Company," "The Incredible Mr. Limpet" (1964), "The Ghost and Mr. Chicken" (1966)

Kovacs, Ernie, 43; TV personality; skull fracture from an automobile accident caused while he was trying to light his trademark cigar (January 11, 1962)

L'Amour, Louis, 80, author; lung cancer. (June 10, 1988) High Lonesome, Comstock Load, Hondo, Sackett

Landon, Michael, 54, actor, smoked 4 packs a day; cancer of the pancreas and liver (July 1, 1991) Bonanza, Little House on the Prairie; I Was a Teenage Werewolf (1957)

Lerner, Alan Jay, 67, playwright, lyricist; lung cancer. (June 14, 1986) My Fair Lady, Brigadoon, An American In Paris, Gigi, On a Clear Day You Can See Forever, Camelot

London, Julie, 74, singer, actress; complications from stroke (October 18, 2000) Cry Me a River (1956), Emergency (70s TV series), "The Marlboro Song" (early 60s)

Marchand, Nancy, 71, actress; lung cancer (June 18, 2000) The Sopranos, Lou Grant

Maris, Roger, 51, baseball player; lung cancer . The home-run record holder appeared in Camel ads in the 60s

Martin, Dean, 78, singer; acute respiratory failure. (December 25, 1995) Ocean's Eleven

Marvin, Lee, 67, actor; heart attack. (August 29, 1987) Cat Ballou

Marx, Groucho, 86, actor/entertainer; lung cancer. (Aug. 19, 1977) (Disputed: cause of death may have been pneumonia.

Groucho had been ailing since he had a heart attack and several strokes in 1971) A Day at the Races; You Bet Your Life

Matthau, Walter, 79, actor; heart attack. (June 30, 2000) The Fortune Cookie, The Odd Couple, Grumpy Old Men While making "The Fortune Cookie" in 1966, he suffered a serious heart attack. His doctor attributed it to smoking three packs a day and constant worry about gambling and told him to give up both. Matthau stopped smoking. In 1976, he underwent heart bypass surgery.

Maxwell, Marilyn, 49, actress/performer; "heart attack brought on by high blood pressure and a pulmonary ailment"--IMDB (March 20, 1972)

McLaren, Wayne, 51; model; lung cancer (Summer, 1992) "Marlboro Cowboy". At a Philip Morris shareholders meeting, he asked the company to limit their advertising.

McLean, David, 73; Former TV "Marlboro Man," actor/model; lung cancer (Oct. 12, 1995)

McLure, Doug, 56; TV actor; lung cancer (February 5, 1995) The Virginian

McQueen, Steve, actor; lung cancer McQueen Viceroy commercial

Meadows, Audrey, 71, actress; lung cancer (Feb. 3, 1996) The Honeymooners

Mercouri, Melina, 68, actress; lung cancer (March 6, 1994) Never on Sunday

Merrill, Gary, 74, actor; lung cancer (March 5, 1990) All About Eve, Dr. Gillespie on Young Dr. Kildaire Husband of Bette Davis

Millar, David, model; complications from emphysema. According to his sister, Millar was the first Marlboro Man.

Mitchum, Robert, 79, actor; emphysema, lung cancer (July 1, 1997) The Night of the Hunter, Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison, Cape Fear, The Big Sleep, That Championship Season

Moore, Gary, 78, game show host; emphsema, November 28, 1993 I've Got a Secret, To Tell the Truth

Moorehead, Agnes, 73, actress; lung cancer (April 30, 1974) TV: Bewitched Movies: Citizen Kane, The Magnificent Ambersons, Show Boat (1955)

Morton, Gary, 74, actor, stand-up comic, producer; lung cancer (March 30, 1999) "The Lucy Show" (1962-8); "Here's Lucy" (1968-74); "Life with Lucy" (1986)

Muller, Heiner, 66, playwright; throat cancer (Dec. 30, 1995) Revered German playwright, poet, director, translator

Murrow, Edward R., 57, newscaster; lung cancer. ( April 27, 1965) Host of The Camel News Caravan

Nixon, Pat, 81, First Lady of the US, 1969-74; multiple conditions. ( June 22, 1993) The wife of Richard M. Nixon suffered strokes in 1976 and 1982. Had mouth cancer, emphysema and lung cancer.

Nye, Carrie, 69, stage actress; lung cancer (July 14, 2006) Wife of Dick Cavett, who said, "she tried to quit a couple of times became part of her early persona; perhaps based on Tallulah Bankhead or Marlene Dietrich."

Oliver, Susan, 53, actress, author; lung cancer (May 10, 1990) Vina the slave girl in the first episode of Star Trek

Orbison, Roy, 52, singer, heart attack (December 6, 1988) Crying, Only the Lonely, Pretty Woman

Onassis, Jacquie, 64, First Lady 1961-63; non-hodgkins lymphoma (May 19, 1994) Reputedly a 3-pack-a-day chain-smoker (variously reported as Salem, Newport, L&M, Pall Mall, Marlboro and Merit), who concealed the habit from the public, and quit when she received the cancer diagnosis.

O'Neal, Patrick, 66, actor; lung cancer (August, 1994) The Kremlin Letter

Owens, Buck, singer;

Owens, Jesse, 66, track star; lung cancer 1936 Gold Medal winner at the Berlin Olympics; first cigarette pitchman to target blacks (Lucky Strike)

Palladin, Jean-Louis, 555, chef; lung cancer (November 25, 2001)

Palmer, Robert, 54, British rock star; heart attack (September 26, 2003) Addicted to Love (1986)

Parks, Bert, 77, actor/singer; lung cancer (February 2, 1992)

Patchett, Jean, 75, fashion model; emphysema (January 22, 2002)

Peppard, George, actor; "complications arising from the treatment of cancer"; Peppard had smoked 2 packs a day until 1993, when he had a cancerous tumor removed from his lung (May 8, 1995) Breakfast at Tiffany's, A-Team

Pleshette, Suzanne, 70, actor; lung cancer leading to respiratory failure (January 17, 2008) The Birds, Fate is the Hunter; 8 Simple Rules, Bob Newhart Show (TV)

Powell, Dick, 59, actor; lung cancer (1963)

Price, Vincent, 82, actor; lung cancer (October 26, 1993) The Tingler, The Fall of the House of Usher

Puccini, Giacomo, 65, opera composer; throat cancer (1924) La Boheme, Tosca, Madame Butterfly

Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowden, 71, UK Royal Family; stroke/heart attack (February 9, 2002) During her life, she suffered migraines, laryngitis, bronchitis, hepatitis and pneumonia. In 1985, tissue taken from her

left lung proved to be benign. This did not stop her smoking; nor did the fact that four monarchs - Edward VII, George

V, Edward VIII and the Princess's own father, George VI - died of smoking-related illnesses. Within months of the biopsy operation she was smoking 30 cigarettes a day. She had apparently given up smoking when she suffered her first, mild stroke in 1998.

Ramsey, Anne, 59, actress; throat cancer (August 11, 1988) Throw Mama from the Train

Rawls, Lou, 72, singer; lung cancer (January 6, 2006)

Ray, Aldo, 64, actor; complications from throat cancer, pneumonia (March 27, 1991)

Reasoner, Harry, newscaster; lung cancer, pneumonia (August 6, 1991) 60 Minutes

Reese, Pee-Wee, 81, baseball player; lung cancer (August 14, 1999). Brooklyn Dodgers shortstop

Reeve, Dana, 44, actress, singer, author, motivational speaker, advocate; lung cancer (March 6, 2006). Many news reports noted that the nonsmoking widow and caregiver of actor Christopher Reeve had spent a lot of time performing in smoky nightclubs.

Reeves, Del, 74, country singer; emphysema (January 1, 2007). The Girl on the Billboard

Remick, Lee, 55, actress; lung and liver cancer (July 2, 1991) A Face in the Crowd, The Long Hot Summer, Anatomy of a Murder

Reinach, Jacquelyn, 70, writer; lung cancer (September 30, 2000) Sweet Pickles (Children's book classic); Know the Facts: Keep Your Power A young person's anti-smoking program which won an Emmy in 1993

Reynolds, R.J. Sr., 67, founder of RJ Reynolds Tobacco Co., pancreatic cancer (1916)

Reynolds, R.J. Jr., 58, emphysema

Reynolds, R.J. III, 60, emphysema, (1994)

Richards, Ann, 73, Texas Governor, esophageal cancer (September 14, 2006)

Ripken, Cal Sr., 83, baseball coach, lung cancer(1994)

Ruff, Patsy, 56, one of the world's first successful double-lung transplants, kidney failure (October 21, 2000) After her 1987 transplant, Ruff worked for the American Lung Association, warning about smoking. . . the anti-rejection drugs Ruff took led eventually to kidney failure.

Rugova, Ibrahim, 61, writer, first President of Kosovo (2002-2006); lung cancer (January 21, 2006) Chain-smoking fighter for ethnic Albanians, and equal rights for Kosovo province with Serbia; opposed Yugoslavian President Miloscevic.

Ruth, Babe, 53, baseball player. Naso-pharyngeal cancer. (August 16, 1948)

Sartre, Jean-Paul, 74, philosopher (existentialism), author; After 2 heart attacks (1971, 1973), his health was never the same; his sight failed almost totally and his production diminished; In March of 1980, he was hospitalized for edema of the lungs, and died a few weeks later. (April 13, 1980) 1964 Nobel Prize in Literature No Exit, Nauseau, St. Genet

Sayre, Nora, 68, author; emphysema (August 8, 2001) "Sixties Going on Seventies" (1973), "Running Time: Films of the Cold War" (1982), "Previous Convictions: A Journey Through the 1950s" (1995), and "On the Wing: A Young American Abroad" (2001) "Known for her chain-smoking and irascible personality"

Schiavelli, Vincent, 57, actor (December 26, 2005) Popular droopy-eyed character actor. "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest," "Ghost"

Schippers, Thomas, 47, conductor, musical director; lung cancer (December 16, 1977) Co-founderof the Spoleto arts Festival

Scott, George C., 71, actor; ruptured abdominal aortic aneurysm (September 22, 1999) Scott suffered several heart attacks over the years. He claimed he got his gravelly voice from "smoking too many cigarettes." Patton, Dr. Strangelove, The Hustler, Anatomy of a Murder, The Hospital

Scotti, Vito, 78, actor; lung cancer (June 5, 1996) The Aristocats, The Godfather, Get Shorty

Serling, Rod, 51, writer/director; smoked 4 packs a day; heart disease. (June 28, 1975) The Twilight Zone (1959-64)

Seyrig, Delphine, 58, actress; lung disease (October 15, 1990)

Shaw, Robert, 51, actor; heart attack (August 28, 1978) Jaws, From Russia With Love, The Sting

Shirley, Anne, 75, actress; lung cancer (July 4, 1993) Anne of the Green Gables, Stella Dallas

Sinatra, Frank, 82, singer, heart attack (May 14, 1998) Sinatra was also suffering from bladder cancer, early Alzheimer's and the effects of a stroke.

Shamseddine, Ayatollah Mohammed Mehdi, 64, spiritual leader of Lebanon's Shiite Muslims and a staunch advocate of Christian-Muslim coexistence; lung cancer (January 10, 2001)

Shostakovich, Dmitri, 69, composer; lung cancer (August 9, 1975)

Smith, "Sonic" Fred, 45, rock musician; heart failure (November 4, 1994) Guitarist with MC5

Soo, Jack, 63, actor; cancer of the esophagus (January 11, 1979) Barney Miller

Stander, Lionel, 86, actor; lung cancer (November 30, 1994) Mr. Deeds Goes to Town, Max in Hart to Hart

Stanwyck, Barbara, 82, actress; congestive heart failure (January 20, 1990) Stella Dallas, Double Indemnity

Stapleton, Maureen, actress;

Stevens, Woody, 84, horse trainer (August 22, 1998) Trained winners in all three Triple Crown races, including five straight Belmont winners during the 1980s.

Sullivan, Ed, 72, entertainer; lung cancer (1974)

Taglioni, Fabio, 80, Ducati motorcycle engineer and designer; throat cancer (July 18, 2001)

Talman, William, actor; lung cancer (August 30, 1968) D.A. Hamilton Burger, Perry Mason TV Series When He came down with lung cancer, He was the first actor to do a TV commercial on the danger of smoking. (Internet Movie Database) He died before the commercial aired.

Tarbox, Barb, 42; former Canadian model became a tobacco control activist, lung cancer (May 18, 2003968) You are all so much above this. You're intelligent. You're energetic. You have the world before you in the palms of your hands. Any dream you have is possible. But if you walk the path I walked, this is the path you will walk. And I don't want any of you ever to walk this walk.

Taylor, Robert, 57, actor; lung cancer (June 8, 1969) Quo Vadis, Magnificent Obsession, Broadway Melody of 1938, Saddle the Wind

Thaw, John, 60, actor; throat cancer (February 21 2002) The Loneliness Of The Long Distance Runner, The Sweeney, Inspector Morse

Thomas, Ross, 69, author; lung cancer (December 19, 1995) Espionage author; wrote the screenplay for Bad Lieutenant, his Briarpatch won the Edgar Award for Best Mystery Novel

(1985)

Thompson, Hank, 82, country singer; lung cancer (November 6, 2007) The Wild Side of Life

Thornbury, Will, 57, model; Lung Cancer (1992) Modeled for Camel TV ads

Tierney, Gene, 70, actress; emphysema (November 6, 1991) Laura, Leave Her to Heaven The squeakiness of her voice in her first film, "The Return of Frank James," impelled her to take up smoking cigarettes.

Tone, Franchot, 63, actor; lung cancer (September 18, 1968) Mutiny on the Bounty, Lives of a Bengal Lancer

Tracy, Spencer, 66, actor; lung congestion; heart attack (June 10, 1967) Captains Courageous (1937), Boys' Town (1938), San Francisco (1936), Father of the Bride (1950), Bad Day at Black Rock

(1955), Old Man and the Sea (1958), Inherit the Wind (1960), Judgment at Nuremberg (1961), Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

(1967)

Tubb, Ernest, 70, singer; emphysema (September 6,1984) "The Texas Troubador"-- Waltz Across Texas, I'm Walking the Floor over You

Tucker, Forrest, 67, actor; lung cancer and emphysema (October 25, 1986) Sands of Iwo Jima, The Yearling, Gunsmoke

Tucker, Sophie, 78, entertainer; lung cancer (February 9, 1966)

Turner, Lana, actress; throat cancer (June, 1995) TV: Falcon Crest. Movies: Imitation of Life (1959), Madame X (1966),

Peyton Place (1957), The Postman Always Rings Twice (1946)

Twain, Mark, 75, writer; "angina pectoris" (April 21, 1910) In his later years, he had reportedly decreased his cigar smoking from 20/day to 3 or 4. Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Adventures of Tom Sawyer

Vander Pyl, Jean, actor; lung cancer (April 13, 1999) Voice of Wilma Flintstone, The Flintstones "Everybody on the Flintstones smoked and all of them ended up dying of smoking-related diseases. . . That little cute laugh that Betty and Wilma did with their mouths closed? They came up with that because when they normally laughed, because they were smokers, they coughed."-- Michael O'Meara, son of Jean Vander Pyl. See Benaderet, Bea Vaughan, Sarah, singer; lung cancer (1990) Broken-hearted Melody

Varney, Jim, 50, actor; lung cancer (February 10, 2000) "Ernest P. Worrell" Though hopelessly hooked on cigarettes, he wouldn't allow himself to be photographed smoking, for the sake of all the kids who loved Ernest. And, though he entertained them by clowning, sprawling, grinning and cutting up, the talented Mr. Varney had one last message for those kids: Don't smoke. --Lexington Herald-Leader 2/11/00

Walker, Nancy, 69, actress; lung cancer (March 25, 1992)

Wagoner, Porter, 80, singer; lung cancer (October 28, 2007) Satisfied Mind, Green, Green Grass of Home, Please Don't Stop Loving Me (Duet with Dolly Parton)

Wayne, John, 72, actor; After exposure to nuclear radiation, cancer took a lung in 1963; had many battles with heart

disease and other cancers. (June 11, 1979) Stagecoach; Red River; Fort Apache; Rio Grande; She Wore a Yellow Ribbon; and The Searchers

Wells, Mary, 49, singer; larynx cancer (1992) My Guy

Wheeler, Bert, 72, comedian; emphysema (January 18, 1968)

Wilcoxon, Henry, 79, actor; cancer and COPD (March, 1984) Cleopatra (1934), Crusades, Greatest Show on Earth, The Ten Commandments, That Hamilton Woman, Mrs. Miniver, Man in the Wilderness, Last of the Mohicans (1935), Unconquered, Caddy Shack

Wild, Jack, 53, actor; oral cancer (March 1, 2006) The Artful Dodger in Oliver! (1968); HR Pufnstuf.(TV)

Wilson, Bill, 76, founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, emphysema (1971)

Wilson, Carl, 51, musician (Beach Boys); complications from lung cancer (February 6, 1998)

Williams, Tex, country-western singer; lung cancer (October 13, 1985) Smoke! Smoke! Smoke! (That Cigarette) (1947)

Wolfman Jack, 57, radio personality, actor; heart attack (July 1, 1995) American Graffitti

Woodbury, Joan, 74, actress; COPD, lung cancer (February, 1989) Anthony Adverse, Algiers, Hit the Deck, Latins From Manhattan, The Ten Commandments, Bride of Frankenstein. Other westerns with William Boyd (Hoppalong Cassidy), Tex Ritter, Roy Rogers, Gene Autry. Made over 70 "B" films: Boston Blackie, Charlie Chan, etc. She was the original Brenda Starr.

Yennimatas, George, Greek National Economy Minister, 55; complications from lung cancer (April 25, 1994) Yennimatas was one of Greece's most beloved politicians. When he presented the 1994 budget to reporters in November, he announced a new tax on tobacco, saying the revenues would be earmarked for an anti-smoking campaign.

York, Dick, 63, actor; emphysema (1992)

Young, Faron, 64, country-western singer; self-inflicted gunshot wound. (Dec. 10, 1996). Young "had been depressed

recently about emphysema and other health problems"--NY Times, 12/11/96. Goin' Steady; Sweet Dreams; Live Fast, Love Hard, Die Young

Young, Coleman A., 79, Detroit, Michigan's longest-serving mayor. Emphysema. (November 29, 1997)

Zevon, Warren., 56, singer/songwriter. Mesothelioma (an asbestos-related lung cancer

[johnnie]

81. Candy, John, 43, actor; heart attack (March 4, 1994) Second City TV; Planes, Trains and Automobiles

They contribute his death to smoking?

[seabeyond]

82. didnt he weigh like 500 pounds???? adn drugs????? nt

[Hannah Bell]

113. you don't understand. other risk factors are immaterial. touch tobacco, you *die from it*.

which shows you what the purpose of such lists actually is.

[seabeyond]

115. i understand. a poster said people dont say all are gonna die. but people do say that. you smoke

you die

they get much uglier about it too. like suggesting you are unworthy of medical or dental treatment.

i hear ya

[Hannah Bell]

161. ugly is the word. all right. did you know the white house is covered in brown film? because *all*

smokers' homes are covered in brown film, ergo....

then there's this from the list...

"Allen, Gracie, 58, actress; heart attack (August 27, 1964) The Burns and Allen Show Allen lived with George Burns, an inveterate cigar smoker, for 38 years..."


yes, non-smoker gracie died (at age 69, actually, not 58) from the second-hand smoke of her husband george burns --

who himself miraculously lived to be 100, in good health until he was 98.

[NM_hemilover]

187. only affliction that people can have that will guarantee death

is to be born.

Eat healthy, live right, live on a soap box.............still die

[Arugula Latte]

94. Then there are the people who died as a result of other people smoking

or those who will die ... like our family friend whose lungs are riddled with cancer, whose husband puffed away into her face for decades, and she is paying the ultimate price for his addiction.

[Hannah Bell]

108. that list is funny, but i'm sure you don't see it.

[virgogal]

136. OMG---they all died so young! So sad.

[Crunchy Frog]

154. Graham Chapman age 48. Throat cancer.

[pipi_k]

76. And then there are the smokers who...

had they lived long enough (even another year or two, since certain lung cancers can spread very quickly) might have died from the disease instead of being run over by stampeding ferrets, or assassination, or whatever else killed them first.

It's all a crapshoot, really.

But if people want to take their chances, then hey. It's not my business. Just don't think you're fooling anyone when you spritz yourself with Febreze or Lysol spray and walk into a room and people can smell you from ten feet away.

Don't think your yellow-stained fingertips and teeth are attractive.

And when you get to be my age and your skin looks like it's 20 years older than what it really is, keep on puffing away.


PS...I understand how hard it is to quit. What I don't...and never will...understand is the justification for doing something disgusting and potentially deadly.


oh well :shrug:

[seabeyond]

78. omg.... letting me tell you what a disgusting person you are in all ways, appearance, inside

then let me show you my compassionate self and empathize with struggle of addiction.

that is basically the bottom line of your post.

what really gets me on these thread is the total ugliness from non smokers in such holier than thou mentality... and they do it so proudly and in the face.

i am always so ... really.... just shocked.

until i see the hate toward fat people

(personally, i love the dynamics of human behavior in all forms, more fascinated than anything else)

but the reality is.... a person that posts like you, piki, are no different than those you would be outraged on issues in other areas like abortion, or ageism, or where ever other hate comes from.

[pipi_k]

97. Well what can be said?

I used to smoke. I never realized how much I stank or how offensive that must have been to others.

Or, if I did know, I didn't care. Because really, it was all about ME. ME ME ME. MY right to smoke. Which, granted, I had, but to fool myself into thinking I was not disgusting to others? Please.

Breath mints don't take away the stench. Ever lick a dirty ashtray? That's what it's like to kiss a smoker. Yes..even when I smoked myself.

I think you do not understand the point I'm trying to make because it's got to be black or white. Either/or.

I'm sorry you do not understand that someone can be empathetic about how hard it is to quit smoking and how hard it is to STAY quit. I do understand the struggle.

What I don't understand is how...or why...people will DEFEND their right to inflict their stench on others. It would be exactly the same if someone were to purposely not bathe for months on end, then get all pissy and defensive when people said, "Geez, you really stink!!!"

People who don't even TRY to quit...people who are perfectly happy making themselves less healthy, driving up healthcare costs for all of us...people who won't TRY to quit for their kids or their families...people who DEFEND...at all costs...their right to be offensive to others.

I'm very sympathetic with someone who's struggling...truly struggling.

Not so much with people who arrogantly tell the rest of us to just "deal with" their second hand smoke or their stink.

Being purposely offensive isn't such an admirable thing and I'm sorry if you think I'm not "compassionate" enough.

[seabeyond]

100. growing up with parents that smoked, i never thought any of that stuff you insist

people feel. i never thought my mother stunk. smoke didn't hang on her, as you say. didn't notice or think twice about it. it was in the time where smoking didn't = hate. so it wasn't even a consideration i was suppose to be disgusted. and i hadn't been conditioned that i was to be appalled at even a whiff.

other people i know it didn't/doesn't matter a single bet. and the huge issue you make it out to be, never was for me. i just dont look at people that way

all the rest of the post.... not my business. some live, some die. some non smokers live until old, some dont.

costs? something said a lot. but an actual study came out and smokers are not a higher cost.

i dont think this way with people. i listen to people talk like this with smokers. another group with fat people. another group with women. another group with those that age. another group with kids.

it is just one more area to be self righteously ugly.

congrats quitting. i am sure you feel good about it. good stuff

[xsquid]

241. That's because you grew up smelling it.

My grandfather and father smoked when I was a baby and toddler and I had very bad asthma. My father quit, grandfather died and my asthma went away, and he wound up with emphesyma (that killed him).

Back to the point though, if you grew up in a house of smokers you would be oblivious to the smell but others are. I used to work with a woman that here and her husband smoked and she swore they did not have any smoke smell. They wound up both quitting then after thir sense of smell cleared up they could smell the smoke on other peoples clothes, etc. She also said a few months after they quit they went into a closet of stored clothes they had a very strong cigarette smoke smell. I guess though there are people that smoked for years or lived around it for years that permanentoy lose a portion of their sense of smell and don't get it back. Many people that have never smoked or lived with smokers can smell smoke on someone when they walk in a room.

[woo me with science]

114. When I was in the seventh grade,

I remember a language teacher stopping in front of my friend's desk in the middle of class, making a disgusted face, and announcing in front of everyone, "YOU have been smoking. You think I can't tell, but I can smell the stink on you. Everybody can smell the stink on you."

My friend didn't smoke, but both of her parents did. She was also severely depressed that year for other reasons. The judgment and humliation did not help. I will never forget the look on her face after class that day.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

95. ROFLOL...this might be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen on DU

Congrats!

Let me add: My objection has nothing to do with smoking. Rather, it has to do with the extremely faulty logic you seem to be employing here. You claim these people are "random". They're not. You deliberately looked for people who supported the view you chose. That is the worst and most dishonest kind of "science" there is.

[SidDithers]

121. +1...

gargantuan failures of logic like this OP don't come down the pike too often.

Sid

[SemiCharmedQuark]

124. Yep. So when they do, you've got to CHERISH them!

[tonysam]

132. +100

As somebody who has many family members die of smoking-related diseases, the OP is the biggest steaming pile of shit EVER.

[Crunchy Frog]

98. How about Graham Chapman, heavy pipe smoker.

d 1989 at age 48 of throat cancer.

[Greyhound]

99. K&R. LOL!

*poke, poke*
:rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

147. you got it. (don't tell them, though)

[Earth Bound Misfit]

102. . Tutti fumo, niente in forno.

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[LeftishBrit]

103. So what is the point in this?

No one says that EVERYONE who smokes will die of it, or that non-smokers live forever. However, there are lots of large-scale studies that indicate that *on average* most people who smoke die younger, and are at much greater risk for lung diseases, than non-smokers. It's a statistical correlation, and doesn't mean that ALL smokers die younger than non-smokers. Just like plenty of people have run across the road without looking, and have lived to tell the tale. But your chances are greater if you don't smoke and if you cross the road carefully.

If you do want anecdotes about the famous, I could point out that the last King of England, George VI, was a heavy smoker and died of lung cancer at the age of 56, while his non-smoking wife died of old age at 101, and their non-smoking daughter Queen Elizabeth II is still in reasonably good health at the age of 85. If you want anecdotes in general, I could tell you of three good friends who smoked and who died unpleasant deaths from lung cancer or emphysema. But I'd go more for large-scale studies than anecdotes. If you want to smoke, or can't give it up, then go ahead: you may be lucky, just like you might be lucky playing Russian roulette. But I wouldn't *encourage* people to smoke, on that basis.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

117. It's April 1, April Fool's!!

Oh...

[SidDithers]

118. Unrec...

a "random" sampling of some people who did and didn't die from smoking related illness illustrates abso-fucking-lutely no point whatsoever.

Sid

[tammywammy]

120. Agreed, also unrecced

tammywammy - smoker

[Beringia]

119. nice pictures n/t

[SidDithers]

123. Cigarettes Cut About 10 Years Off Life, 50-Year Study Shows

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61981-2004Jun22.html

Fifty years after British researchers published the first study firmly linking cigarette smoking to lung cancer, the same scientist following the same group of British doctors has reported the most detailed and long-term results ever of the health effects of smoking. His stark conclusion: A life of cigarette smoking will be, on average, 10 years shorter than a life without it.

While the lethal effects of cigarette smoking have long been known, the new study, published yesterday in the British Medical Journal, is the first to quantify the damage over the lifetime of a generation. The effects, the researchers reported, were "much larger than had previously been suspected."

In the 50-year study of a group of almost 35,000 British doctors, the pioneering epidemiologist Richard Doll, who is now 91, and his colleagues found that almost half of all persistent cigarette smokers were killed by their habit, and a quarter died before age 70.

The study also found, however, that kicking the cigarette habit had equally dramatic effects. He found, for instance, that someone who stops smoking by age 30 has the same average life expectancy as a nonsmoker, and someone who stops at 50 will lose four, rather than 10, years of life.

Not all smokers die early, but on average smokers don't live as long as non-smokers.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Sid

[MajorChode]

153. Death is not the only consideration either

Carrying around an oxygen tank the last 10-15 years of your life is a pisser too.

[RagAss]

155. it just seems 10 years longer.

[laughingliberal]

169. There do seem to be some genetic factors which factor in

My family being a prime example. All except one of the past several generations have been smokers from an early age and all lived past 90, several past 100. They all died of causes unrelated to smoking and there was no heart or lung disease in any of them. My maternal grandmother was the one exception-never smoked and died of a cerebral hemorrhage at 46.

I smoke and, as I have no money on which to retire, I can only hope I do knock a few years off the average for my family. If I could count on the 10 years less thingie, perhaps I can get out of here in my late 80's or early 90's. It would be interesting to look at the life expectancy of these smokers who lowered their life expectancy by 10 years in relation to their family members.

[Wizard777]

180. Stick this in your pipe. Smoking has extended my life. It's a vascular constrictor.

It causes your heart and veins to constrict and shrink. In most people that's not a good thing and can be fatal. But I'm 6' 11" and most people my size die from enlarged heart and veins. My smoking, nicotine actually, counteracts my hearts natural inclination to enlarge. I'm also 78. It is almost unheard of for people my size to live this long. Another thing to keep in mind is that our current mortality table is set at 70 (up from 65.) So if you don't smoke you can expect to live to be at least 70. So how can they say smoking takes 10 years off your life when I'm 8 years past the age non smokers should expect to live too? I've been a life long smoker of Cigarettes and Marijuana. I've been smoking both for coming up on 70 years now. Maybe my cigarette and marijuana smoking will die when it hits 70?

My doctor used to wonder why my heart and lungs didn't enlarge like most people my size. Then studies revealed that nicotine was a vascular constrictor. He suspected that may be the reason. But that was confirmed when I quit smoking for a year and ny heart began to enlarge. I went back to smoking. My heart stopped enlarging and in a couple of years went back to it's normal size. Then my doctor began to wonder why I didn't get lung cancer from smoking for so long. Studies are now revealing that may have something to do with my Marijuana smoking. It suppress cancer and halt the growth of tumors in several different types of cancer. Lung cancer is one of them. I learned at an early age how to listen to my body. Thus far my body has never told me smoking cigarettes or marijuana is bad for me. The second it does I will quit. But not until my body tell me to. Everybody else can go jump in a lake. If I would have listened to their health advice over my bodies. I would have been dead long ago.

[SidDithers]

190. I'll still take the 50 year British study over your single data point...nt

Sid

[Wizard777]

243. This single data point refuses to let your cookie cutter cut me out of life.

[GreenTea]

125. Hmmm....seems to say, smoke tobacco and it increase ones odds of getting assassinated.

JFK, Che, Lennon, Hussein, Stalin, etc...

[Rex]

126. In other words - you will die even if you don't smoke. Knew that.

[PurityOfEssence]

133. Edward R. Murrow, Rod Serling, Ernie Kovacs, Humphrey Bogart

Okay, I quibble: Kovacs was killed when he lost control of his car fumbling with a light for his cigar...

Then again, there's Eubie Blake, who lived past 100 while smoking 2 packs a day since the age of 8 and eating a pound of hard candy a day.

Lest we forget, too: Andy Kaufman wasn't a smoker, but he died of lung cancer.

What's the point? It's DANGEROUS.

Second hand smoke is dangerous REGARDLESS of what a snotty libertarian like Penn Jillette says; libertarians have a bizarre worldview that sees no harm unless it's provable death, and preferably on a large scale.

I don't think it should be banned, and I think smokers should be accomodated with smoking areas and the like, but it's not to be taken lightly.

[virgogal]

134. Fun to read. Thanks.

[proteus_lives]

146. I'm going to have a smoke.

I'm a smoker. It may kill me, it may not.

[MajorChode]

149. Several of those listed were pipe or cigar smokers

Both have negligible risks for lung cancer because the smoke is not inhaled. Cigar smokers have an elevated risk of mouth cancers. Pipe smokers have little cancer risk (about the same as those who are regularly exposed to 2nd hand smoke).

Everything in moderation (including moderation).

[CTyankee]

152. This was EXTREMELY interesting! I loved reading all the snips.

A lot of my favorite characters here: audrey, frank, winston, george o., sigmund, etc...

Great post!

[spacelady]

159. smokers aren't villians & could be very good friends

I am a smoker who doesn't hate non-smokers and it is sad to be thought of as a "bad person". Just a simple statement from a smoker. This list illustrates how much PEOPLE can mean to our culture even though they SMOKE.

[Hannah Bell]

163. no, no, no. you carry a stench, your home has a thick brown film all over it, you're stupid & illo-

gical & will die soon, costing the good people here at DU millions of dollars for your medical care.


or so the "good people" have said in this thread.


<<sarcasm>>

[spacelady]

164. These good people make me want to be oh so bad.

The bad smell is not from the smokers. Where is my thank you for ponying up extra tax dollars to shore up city, county and state revenues? Perhaps non smokers should refrain from using venues and enjoying perks paid for by tobacco users. HMMM?

[Hannah Bell]

167. that is just a small fraction of the millions your death will cost all these "good people," so no

thanks are deserved, doncha know?

face it -- you're a pariah who may legitimately be attacked by any of these clean, wholesome, "good people".

god spare me from "good people".

[Wizard777]

181. So you know why nonsmokers have to pay smokers medical bills?

At least here in Maryland the money raised through our outrageous tobacco tax goes towards medicaid. Last year alone Maryland Smokers paid 120 Million in medical bills for people regardless of whether they smoked or not. So if the deadbeat nonsmokers started paying their own medical bills instead of having us smokers pay them. Let the tobacco tax money go towards treating smoking related illness only. We would probably be able to pay our own medical bills with our own money. The only thing that stinks worse than a smokers home and clothes is a nonsmokers attitude.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

160. Smoking causes assassinations

I get it

[woo me with science]

177. Smoking makes you famous! nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

195. smoking makes you really creative and smart

[ismnotwasm]

165. Meaningless

I've worked as a nurse for many years. Would you like me to innumerate MY stories of what smoking does to bodies? When I run out of stories, and it would be a while, I can call a couple of nurse friends for more. Then a couple of Docs I know. We can get a anecdotal as you like here.

I understand being upset about the tax. But I don't get defending smoking as a harmless hobby.

[deaniac21]

166. The smokers may have lived but they didn't breathe well and

they were often sick. Oh, and they stunk.

[spacelady]

168. I hope you never get sick and stinky; you may live to regret

your ruthless attitude. Perhaps a smoker will be your caretaker in your dotage.


edit for missing "r" surely the result of tobacco use.

[Hannah Bell]

173. oh, let's hope so. "smoking caretaker in your dotage." what a delicious thought.

[deaniac21]

191. Cigarettes gave me emphysema. They aren't a laughing matter.

[oberliner]

175. Hitler was not a vegetarian

I don't know why that myth keeps getting promulgated.

[MajorChode]

210. I saw it in the movies, it must be twue

[Coventina]

214. The Nazi propaganda machine said it! It must be true!

I'm so sick of this stupid lie being believed almost 70 years later.

And we ALL KNOW the only reason that it gets brought up nowaways is to make people think
Hitler = vegetarian
so
vegetarians = Hitler

In Nazi propaganda, it was circulated in the hopes that if Hitler was seen as too gentle to eat meat, that he must have a soft heart, and therefore, COULD NOT POSSIBLY be exterminating his fellow humans.

Please, everyone, stop believing old propaganda and lies.

[MajorChode]

217. The brilliance of associative logic at work

God is love. Love is blind. Therefore God must be Ray Charles.

Or in Hanna's case...

Cigarette taxes are regressive. Regressive taxes are evil. Therefore cigarette taxes must be evil.

[kentauros]

176. All these lists of famous smokers

and no one has mentioned Hunter S. Thompson?

Shame, DU, shame.

:P

:hi:

[dogday]

179. I used to agree with your failed logic until I had my first

heart attack and almost died. My second one some six months later did not help either. Now I have congestive heart failure. Heart disease is the number one killer disease in this country and smoking is the number one cause.

It is just not your heart you have to watch out for, it is your lungs as I also have emphysema, COPD.

I also have severe osteoporosis, it also affects you bone growth.


Why do I tell you this? Because my thinking was just like yours is today, and I am now paying a heavy price. You asked yourself my age, well I am 52. Still have a life to live, although I will never live that long.

Best of luck in everything that you do. As long as you smoke you will need it.


peace

Shawnee

[MajorChode]

184. I know a guy who was just like that

I had to listen to all his "smokers' rights" BS whenever they prohibited smoking in our building, even though he could care less about what his 2nd hand smoke was doing to everyone else. Every time cigarette taxes were raised we were subjected to more of the same BS. He always went on and on about how he didn't want to live forever and he was going to live his life the way he wanted, blah, blah, blah. Then he had a heart attack in his 50's and he got a whole new outlook on life. He said you get a completely different attitude about things when they crack your sternum open.

[dogday]

185. When it happens to you, you take notice.

I just want to try to enlighten or touch others in a way in which I never was.

[phylny]

186. I used to smoke, but quit 25 years ago.

I quit the day I learned I was pregnant. Miscarried that baby, but never smoked again.

If people are upset because non-smokers say they smell, sorry, but it's true. If people are upset, because they don't care about what happens to their health, I think of my mother the smoker who died at age 57 - only five years older than I am now. We all miss her.

If people are upset about paying more taxes, do what people around here are doing - grow your own tobacco.

[RiverStone]

193. Thanks Shawnee - BEST POST in the thread award!

Thanks for being vulnerable and sharing a personal truth; I admire your strength and wish you the very best in finding health and healing with the difficulties you face.

Way up thread I mentioned I have worked in education for 20 years. It saddens me to see some parents who totally abdicate any responsibility they have for role modeling healthy choices for their children. Over the years, it's those kids who reek of cig smoke that have told me the loudest how they hate that their parents smoke around them - but there is nothing they can do. Sadly, they are the ones I frequently see smoking a few years later walking down the street - so the cycle continues.

Far more than any curriculum, or "just say no BS" - kids listen most to personal stories just like yours.

Take care :hi:

[Hannah Bell]

197. you seem to have missed the point. but you're in good company.

[dogday]

198. You have missed the point. Smoking will destroy your

health one way or another and for you to respond like that to my heartfelt post shows me everything I need to know. I was just like you in my actions and thoughts about smoking. Nobody could tell me anything, I was going to smoke and I did. And now I am dying. For you to tell me I don't get the point, Hannah, you don't get the point. I am not in good company, I am in the worst company, the one of the dead and dying.

Like I said before, just keep on smoking and you will end up just like me....


Peace

[Hannah Bell]

213. the fact is, you missed the point, no matter how heartfelt your post was.

i'm sorry you're ill, & didn't mean to disparage your suffering, but this thread isn't an argument that smoking has no health risks.

[MajorChode]

219. It was just your lame attempt at minimizing them

He didn't miss your pointless point. He just takes exception to it, which anyone north of a room temperature IQ would.

Cheers!

[Hannah Bell]

224. you also miss the point, chodeahode

[dogday]

236. Hannah you have no point, only excuses... n/t

[dogday]

220. Enlighten me please Hannah

What was your intention?

You say you never know what can happen and that is how I felt when I was smoking. That smoking does not always hurt those who smoke, that others die who never smoked from the same disease that smokers get. Well that kind of thinking is what put my ass in the hospital with a severe MI which the Dr called a widow-maker heart attack. I am a woman and at the time only 51.

You keep saying I am missing the point, but fail to explain what that point is, so it makes me feel I am right on point. Unless I get exactly what you mean from you, I will assume this is a smoking apologists thread and continue to keep vocal about what smoking does to a person's health.

I have a 15 year old daughter I would like to raise before I die. Figure that one into your stats. Cause the race is on to see what will happen, whether I can raise her before I die, and the doctors are not betting on me to win that race.


Peace

[MajorChode]

221. ...

[Hannah Bell]

225. this thread was posted in reference to the earlier one on taxation.

i have no objection to your being vocal about the health effects of smoking, as neither i, nor anyone else i saw denies them, & if you'd read the list, you'd see it includes people like freud & his 15 years of having pieces of his face removed because of cancer of the jaw.

[dogday]

235. Are you in so much denial that I cannot say anything that will

change your mind? Does my story not make you want to say fuck smoking? How old are you if you don't mind me asking? Cause you remind me of my teenager, she doesn't listen either...

[dionysus]

230. .

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[divvy]

183. Lay off the booze ..... Your mind has started to rot.

[Name removed]

188. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stupidity]

192. "famous smokers"? Teh Stupid! It Burns!

Wow. I had to actually read this crap, and the replies. Your stupid list doesn't even match your stupid headline. There is so much stupid here I thought it was a fambly reunion.

[Cetacea]

194. In today's news: American Lung Association: Most Americans Exposed to Dangerous Air

Funny how a thread addressing this only has five replies. I wonder how many deaths are attributable to "dangerous air" and automobile fumes?

[AsahinaKimi]

200. One of My favorite actors

SHINTARO KATSU

Played the part of ZATOICHI for many years.. He died of pharyngeal cancer on June 21, 1997.

[Shell Beau]

204. Peter Jennings comes to mind for some reason.

Of course the non-smoker Dana Reeve died of lung cancer. x(

[Dreamer Tatum]

205. Another fatuously-argued claim that smoking is perfectly healthy

I salute you for having so much time to waste, however.

[Hannah Bell]

215. where do you see the argument that smoking "is perfectly healthy"?

as the list includes a number of smokers who died miserable deaths from smoking-related illnesses?

i salute you for the nice pile of straw, however.

[Name removed]

222. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hannah Bell]

223. the fact that you missed the point doesn't mean i'm dishonest.

[thelordofhell]

212. Yuliy Borisovich Bryner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNjunlWUJJI

:smoke:

[dionysus]

226. you're doubling down, eh?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

227. you mean your excessive use of rotfl smilies?

[dionysus]

231. if you had even a clue how much of a fool you're making of yourse- ah just keep going comrade bell.

luckies for everyone!!!

[Hannah Bell]

242. making a good impression on lifestyle libs isn't my goal in life, but thanks for your concern.

[RedCloud]

232. What about Mae West? I read she was smoking hot?

[Dogtown]

234. "So it goes..."

Great thread, Hannah!

[Greyhound]

237. OMG!

:rofl:

I'm trying to think if they've missed any formula replies? I can't, but my back hurts and so thinking isn't totally clear. But, this is the funniest thread I've read in quite some time.
:thumbsup:

[closeupready]

238. Bob Marley, from skin cancer melanoma which started on his toe.

n/t

[Blue-Jay]

239. Think I'll go out for a smoke right now.

[leftstreet]

240. LOL

Hannah you are sooooo bad

:rofl: :thumbsup:

Nice photo of Einstein!