'America Needs a Draft' Says Stephen Heller; PLUS Brad on Thom Hartmann Today

[BradBlog]

All bollixed up here late in the week on a number of stories and tips and deadlines that I'm working on concurrently. So posting has been light...but here's a post or two of note for ya to go into the weekend... -- Brad

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Do You Feel a Draft?
It's Time for America to Institute One...

Guest Blogged by Stephen Heller...

"A very small segment of the American population are fighting this war! If the president thinks we should continue the war he ought to call for a draft and spread it out and let everybody serve in this war, not this small segment who are making such a sacrifice!"
-- Rep. John Murtha (D-PA), 4/19/07

America needs a military draft. Admittedly, this idea is anathema to many progressives. Nevertheless, it would be good for this nation. It would boost our national security, but it would also be an invaluable part of preventing our so-called "leaders" from taking us into another unnecessary war....

FULL EDITORIAL:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4467

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AUDIO - Brad on Thom Hartmann with Guest Host Peter B. Collins Today...

8 rough and tumble minutes from Ann Coulter's voter fraud to Florida's new paper ballots to Rush Holt's HR811 and a little bit of Thor Hearne thrown in for flavor, all over the national Air America airwaves...who could use much more of the above if you ask me..

AUDIO:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4508

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---
Brad Friedman
THE BRAD BLOG - The uprising continues...
http://www.BradBlog.com
VELVET REVOLUTION - The revolution begins...
http://www.VelvetRevolution.us

[lovuian]

1. Getting Desperate huh Bush people over 3000 deaths and

tens of thousands injured for life with 100,000 on disability from Desert Storm

I'm not surprised they want a Draft but Americans won't go for it

[Selatius]

2. I am not sure I buy the 2nd argument that it will prevent future Viêtnams

We had the draft back then, but it didn't prevent Johnson from escalating the situation in Viêtnam into the tragedy it became.

[sarge43]

3. The draft gives them unlimited manpower to fuck around with.

Also there's no way any one can guarantee the so called 'elite' will be drafted. They found a way out from under during Nam. Further, Heller might want to do some research on Project 100,000 before he talks about an equitable draft.

[KamaAina]

4. Slight correction re: OxyMoron's cyst

it is a pilonidal cyst, not a "pineal cyst" as stated. The difference: the pilonidal cyst is on his humongous ass, while the pineal gland is in the brain.

Come to think of it, since we're talking about the OxyMoron, it's easy to see how Mr. Heller got confused. :P

[Robson]

5. It would negate Blackwater and other merc contractors and war.

A draft would eliminate the need for the private military contractors. It would also ensure that another Iraq or Vietnam war would not be fought. No longer could the politicians use the old cliche..."they are doing the thing that they volunteered for". And I believe it would be good for the USA if ALL high school graduates were required to spend 2 years in service of the country.

[MsMagnificent]

7. Agreed (mostly :)

It's amazing to me that a private, mercenary army doesn't cause more alarm in those who are truly, seriously concerned about the leeching away of our freedoms and the general concern over this administrations abominable actions.

Personally, I feel if a draft were reinstated, we'd see a lot less support for this war -- when Republican families finally have to physically send (as opposed to their current preferred method of "fighting": the saffron-streaked Keyboard Warriors) their OWN children to this misbegotten war, then we'd finally hear some real alarm. Their money can't protect them and there aren't enough slots in the stay-in-the-states National Guard for all those R kids... although on the negative side, I'd wager good money that those few left in the states would be, to a wo/man, of Republican and wealthy families. All the poor &/or Dem kids (and may I venture non-white?) would be shipped out en masse, toute suite!

Let these College Republicans et.al. be as 'invested' as the children of the poor -- those who would never gain a college education if it weren't for erstwhile (I use that word because one has to survive their multiple, extended, stop-lossed tours of duty to get to finally attend college) promises of tuition.


However, I do not see the need for mandatory service for every U.S. young adult. In fact, if it were indeed mandatory the deterrents I mentioned above would be squandered as quite plainly everyone would have to serve, no exceptions.

Let them get on the karmic Wheel of Fortune (& I don't mean the game show!) with everybody else. How 'free' is it to demand ALL young adults serve? It's bad enough to be in an almost Jacksonian (of the Shirley kind) Lottery! Mandatory service feels... well, downright communist-state
and I don't mean to sound like McCarthy, just can't seem to put it in clearer terms at the moment.
It would absolutely be used as a sterling opportunity to propagandize and brainwash ALL U.S. kids;
as I'm sure is tried now but at the present, but even with a balanced draft there will still be some in this country free from such indoctrination -- still free to reason & think for themselves.


Oh yeah, full of holes -- I'm picking my own arguments apart as I write them :(
But what else can one do?

--barring of course an alternate reality where we didn't waste our only REAL treasure: our (mostly youthful) blood on pointless wars of greed based upon lies?--

Otherwise HOW to we get these children of affluents/affluence to be under the same substantive, tangible threats as the poorer/disadvantaged which comprise the lion's share of our enlisted military today?


***Please pardon the horrid grammar -- I'm aphasic & just cannot write prose, just try to put things down how I would converse one-on-one. So apologies in advance, hope you can comprehend this. :hi:

[Robson]

25. Mandatory public service above and beyond military

I would propose that the draft be created for mandatory public service for ALL high school graduates and non-graduates that would encompass far more than the military. This country has huge needs that aren't being taken care of above and beyond the military. Such service could include working at public parks, working with poor, service working for local governments, service at picking up litter. They would go directly from high school into this service and in return receive a stipend during their service, and most importantly would receive federal financial credits towards an advanced education.

This financial aid would give many students the opportunity to enter college or receive a vocational or technical training as far more mature individuals than they currently are as high school graduates.

Also it would eliminate the need for many of these private military contractors that we all should be very concerned about.

[MsMagnificent]

27. That's a very good idea

Like Americorps was.
Is Americorps even around anymore? I would have thought little boots would have cut their funding in his first years -- after all, Americorps had the Clinton Cooties!

But it still gives me the jeebies that ALL our kids can be under the influence of the government, whether for propaganda or worse, on a full-time basis for 2 years...
but then, I have much more hope for independant thought in a teen-young adult American than I do for these older, hence more complacent and 'better trained', sheeple.

[fizzgig]

30. how would a draft prevent another vietnam or iraq?

a draft would provide a steady and unending stream of cannon fodder. do you actually think that * won't just send those kids to iraq or afghanistan? iran? north korea? gods know where else?

this administration is addicted to war, pure and simple. a draft won't end or prevent any war.

i'm of draft age and i wonder why so many are willing to just throw my peers and i under the bus based on such faulty logic.

[formercia]

6. Bullshit!

What America needs is to stop starting wars of choice based on the myopic agenda of a few reactionary, reich-wing nut cases.

[TahitiNut]

10. How's that working out?

:eyes:

[formercia]

11. Not very well, i'm afraid.

What is it they say about insanity?:

Doing the same thing over and over, while expecting a different outcome.

[Akoto]

8. Yay. Another person gambling on the well-being of my generation.

I'd bet a few bucks that this person isn't of the prime age to be called up first. It's easy to make that kind of political gamble (which, in my opinion, probably would backfire) when your blood isn't on the line.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Been there done that, your turn

and it will be good for the country and the military

Hell, even regulars now say this, we need a draft, for the sake of American democracy

[Akoto]

21. Sorry, but ...

While I respect your service, I stand by my belief that this is an utterly stupid idea.

The military is not going to be fixed by throwing a bunch of disillusioned, unprepared kids into an already delicate situation. As it is, the military isn't fully training volunteer troops. What happens when people unfit for service are sent without even partially sufficient physical/psychological/technical preparation?

What's more, how is giving a megalomaniac MORE troops going to help, exactly? He's already shown a complete disregard for the will of the people, and of Congress. Throwing more bodies into service will not end the war, it will perpetuate it, just as it has in the past.

[Danger Mouse]

24. Cute, isn't it?

And it's largely for the sake of making a political point. So that's what they want us to die for?
Incidentally...the author (Heller) is 45. So you're right on the money about that. And childless, too.

[TahitiNut]

9. A draft should be required whenever we send our military into combat.

The basic problem with the pre-1970 draft was the abundance of escapes for the affluent - not just the elite and very wealthy, but ANYONE in the top 10-20%. Those loopholes slammed shut in 1970 ... and the Viet Nam War closed down as fast as the MAC 707's could carry the troops back to the U.S.

The 'economic draft' is appalling - placing the burden on the most naive and least enfranchised. We have around 50,000 active duty non-citizens, mostly Latinos, and around 120,000 mercs. Detestable.

[BrotherBuzz]

12. David Hackworth's views on draftees

"Even when they pissed me off, I had to admit there was something I liked about the draftees who didn't want to be there and made no bones about it. I like draftees in general, even with the attendant problems. Historically draftees have kept the military on the straight and narrow. By calling a spade a spade, they keep it clean. Without their "careers" to think about, they can't be easily bullied or intimidated as Regulars; their presence prevents the elitism that otherwise might allow a Regular army to become isolated from the values of the country it serves. Draftees are not concerned for the reputation of their employer, the Army (in Vietnam they happily blew the whistle an everything from phony valor awards to the secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia); a draftee, citizens' army, so much a part of the history of America, is an essential part of a healthy democracy, one in which everyone pays the price Of admission." - Colonel David Hackworth (from his book About Face)

This dumb draftee mostly agrees with the late Colonel Hackworth's views, with the exception of his mention of draftee's attendant problems...and even that may have been subject to interpretation.

[formercia]

14. Speaking of Careers

Hackworth was the ultimate insider's insider, so it seems surreal that he would take this tack.

[TahitiNut]

17. I don't regard it as surreal at all.

Hackworth clearly maintained his connections to "the values of the country" he served. He understood that "democracy" means participation. Too many people look at the elitist non-participation and regard it with ENVY instead of disgust. All we have to do is look at the attitude surveys of our present "all volunteer" miltary in Iraq and see the "isolation from the values of the country it serves." Favoring torture to assumedly save the life of another soldier? Regarding the Iraqis with racial/ethnic hatred? How could abu Ghraib even happen?? That's not because these aren't the legitimate children of our nation ... it's because they've become an isolated (sub)culture. This is a condition that can only become worse and worse ... resulting in a mutual animosity. We're already seeing the rape of the VA programs intended to ameliorate the sacrifices made by veterans. Public disdain for the military can only increase the alienation of military personnel ... and the eventual result will be a military more than willing to "cross the Rubicon."

[formercia]

19. His halo had a lot of tarnish as well...

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040328/SRTIGERFORCE/403280375

In Vietnam, troops were paid in script. Technically, the script was worthless, to be traded for cash when the soldier went on leave or home. But local businesses accepted the script and converted it on the black market, often trading $200 to $400 in script for $100 in U.S. currency.

Investigators said that Colonel Hackworth smuggled U.S. cash into Vietnam to trade for script on the black market, and then got his troops to trade that script for U.S. cash, dollar-for-dollar, when they went on leave.

Army inspectors traced more than $40,000 in military script converted to cash for the colonel and sent to America. They also confiscated $10,000 more in script troops said the colonel had given them to send abroad.

The colonel insisted then and now that he simply had his troops smuggle out his poker winnings - which he estimated to be $100,000 over two years.

[TahitiNut]

16. (FTA!) Yep. This dumb draftee agrees, too. All the lifers I served with agreed.

The "robber baron" entitlements put into the draft system were finally removed in 1970. IMHO, the major reason the drat was discontinued was to enable the military adventurism (global corporatist police forces) of the next three decades.

[Exiled in America]

15. This is the most ignorant and stupid idea ever, I can't believe people are so naive.

The idea that a "draft" would put pressure on our leaders to take the cost of war seriously is such a joke.

Those in charge of instituting a draft would make sure it was never fair. The rich and privileged had no trouble avoiding a draft the last time we had one. Look at five deferments Cheney or AWOL bush.

DRAFTS DONT END WARS. The public already opposes the war, and the administration and the powerful are not scared of a draft because they can afford to make sure they nor their family ever have to go.

ALL A DRAFT WOULD DO RIGHT NOW IS GIVE BUSH A NEW RESOURCE OF BODIES TO TAP INTO AND FORCE TO FIGHT IN HIS ILLEGAL WAR.

DRAFT = FORCE ALL POOR PEOPLE TO FIGHT. That's all. No more, no less.

[formercia]

18. I agree

Junior would love to scale up the War and spread it to multiple fronts. His time is running out and the only avenue is to throw more fodder to the cannons.

[Danger Mouse]

23. In Heller's 'fantasy draft' ALL WOULD SERVE...no exceptions...yeah right...

and that would work SO WELL :sarcasm:

[Exiled in America]

28. Yup. :( *sigh*

That's why this is such a bad idea.

[lovuian]

20. There in a pickle thats for sure and its of their own making

How after what you people have seen of Desert Storm Vietnam Afghanistan and Iraq war can think that a DRAFT would solve the problem is beyond me... Heres the problem

They lost Desert Storm (remember Sadam survived) Poppy Bush got out and lost the election
They really lost vietnam and may I add we had a draft then

We have lost afghanistan
We have lost Iraq

Come to grips with it Military Bush Republicans
you are not that Great anymore
the great big military establishmnents only answer is more men

and there is no Army we can build up that can take on 20 million Iraq's and 60 million Iranians and 20 million Syrians
and 12 million Afghanis


if somebody has 100 million army let me know probably the closest one is North korea and China

get it through your heads we have lost the past 4 wars we are full of BS if you think we are powerful enough to take on the MidEast

get out of the Delusion land ...they even nuked it and they still kept coming


for Star Trekers remember the battle scene where they had phazers and yet the primitive tribesmen kept coming
Bombs lazers stealthbombers nukes ...and they still kept coming cause its their country stupids

[Danger Mouse]

22. I love how people who are beyond draft age are so willing to throw my generation to the dogs.

A draft would solve nothing.
It would not stop Bush (since when did he care about the will of the people?)...in fact, it would practically guarantee an escalation of Bush's war.
It would be suicide for the Democrats. Since they control Congress, it would have to come from the Dems. A draft would be EXTREMELY unpopular with the people. The Republicans would start shrieking that it was the Dems who are sending your kiddies off to war!!! And their minions in the MSM would obediantly parrot every point.
Not to mention that you'd be sacrificing many more lives of people in my generation for what...a political point? It's amazing how cavalier people can be about this sort of thing. There are a lot of DUer's (myself included) of draft age...it's sad that our fellow DUer's are willing to sacrifice us for the sake of politics.
So what would we accomplish?
Escalation of Bush's war.
Lots more dead young people.
Destruction of the Dems' chances in '08.
Wow, sounds great!

[HughBeaumont]

26. I'm beyond draftable age (38 in August) and I think it's a patently stupid idea.

Never mind the issue of how you would fund such a debacle, or the fact that enforcing it would divide the country so horribly and turn it into a true police state that you only read about in fiction novels.

I think people who propose this idea have resigned themselves to the notion that peace simply isn't possible in this day and age. It's practically a given that America is never, ever going to kick it's screwed-up addiction to militarism because war is far too profitable an opportunity to pass up for it's corporations and crony capitalists. War with someone is inevitable no matter who we put in office.

I'm just not seeing how a draft would cure that addiction rather than exacerbate it. Like sending poor and middle class people off to die in profitable wars is going to make the "betters" see the error of their ways? The "betters" have no stake in anyone but themselves. Lose your job? PFFFFT. I'll just get an Indian or Malaysian to do it for me, and you'll still buy my product with your little credit card because you need it NOW. "All-inclusive" draft? PFFFFT. You think ANYthing that asks the people who only care about themselves to sacrifice for a nation whose people they couldn't care less about will ever pass? And if such a proposition DID pass, does anyone HONESTLY believe that the "betters" or their kin will see hour ONE of boot camp? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Personally, I'm against a draft, simply because I don't believe in giving my life to a country that taxes the shit out of me and others, yet allows 46 million people to go without health insurance, spends damned near ZILCH on what we NEED to spend money on (schools, health care, infrastructure repair, etc), gives the castle keys, welfare and tax breaks to the ultra-wealthy and corporations that offshore jobs and pours all of that tax booty in a worthless failure of a bloodbath that's only designed to make more money for American corporations. You start correcting that and the nearly 9-trillion dollar national debt and then we'll start talking about "skin in da game". You stop rigging the political system so my choices are a rich pro-war, pro-free-trade Republican versus a rich pro-war, pro-Corporate Dem and then we'll talk. No Iraqi ever did anything to me or my family.

In six years, my stepson will be of draft age. He isn't getting tossed into any corporate meat grinder. End this war and this country's addiction to it.

[Danger Mouse]

29. Great post.

You hit the nail right on the head.
I fail to see what, exactly, a draft would solve.
:yourock: :applause:
Wait...it would solve one big problem. The problem of which dem cantidate to support in '08.
We wouldn't need to worry about THAT anymore...we'd be so thoroughly screwed that we couldn't win if Jesus himself ran on a Dem ticket with Abraham Lincoln.