What is it with abortion exceptions for rape?

[glen123098]

I noticed that in the recent abortion bill that passed in Florida, they make women pay for an ultrasound before an abortion, unless the woman can prove she was raped. However she proves she was raped is beyond me, but I think these exceptions for rape reveal something of the anti abortion movement. They want to force women to keep the fetus to term as punishment for being a "slut." Certainly if they cared about the rights of the fetus, the rape produced fetus would have equal standing under the law. Is this what everyone thinks?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. Everyone who has ever spent ten seconds thinking about it agrees with you

The only reason for the exception is that with the rape/incest exception anti-choice polls pretty well. Without it anti-choice polls very badly.

Simple as that.

[havocmom]

4. Yup

Wingers want to control the wimmens. If they can't control, they want to be the ones fucking us. If we choose a different partner, they want to punish us for it.

They think we are property, pure and simple. When we show independence and healthy sense of self, they HAVE to punish us severely. To them, we are utilities, not human beings.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Hypocrisy thy name is "pro-life"

[Lyric]

3. These people don't REALLY see fetuses as people.

They seem them as Holy Punishment.

And they think that GAYS are unworthy to raise children. Imagine growing up in a household where you, as a child, are considered to be nothing more than a punishment upon your sinful, wicked parents--a burden to be borne, not a joy.

[Maru Kitteh]

5. It's one of the first things I use to trip up forced birthers.

"Surely you don't believe a woman raped should be *punished* by being forced to carry a pregnancy she doesn't want?

Most of them say - oh no! That's different!

It then becomes very easy to reframe the discussion and get them to admit that they DO think women should be punished with pregnancy - something they most often claim not to do.

[Dappleganger]

6. They act as if there is no recession or housing collapse in FL.

Why they think that we NEED these archaic laws in place to bring us out of a recession and solve our housing crisis is beyond me.

[dsc]

7. they are being pragmatic

first, it should be noted that some agree with you that it should be all or nothing but that most, including those who legislate, are willing to take a nearly entire loaf instead of none. The fact is that the percentage of abortions coming from rape or incest is very low so they get to ban, or in this case, ultrasound 90% of pregancies by allowing a rape exception when they would likely get 0% if they didn't.

[seabeyond]

8. exactly. i make them tell me they think it is murder. i say, how can they justify murder

even if the mother is at risk, or a woman is raped or a 10 yr old is raped by father. it would still be murder. they cannot justify murder. they cannot say some murder is ok and some murder is not. otherwise

it is merely a punishment for a female being "promiscuous".

i have NEVER gotten a reasonable, logical argument when put to them in that manner.

BUT i use that argument always

do not tell me it is murder and then tell me murder is ok sometimes.

[dsc]

10. If the mother is in danger it would be justifiable homicide

the intent of the actor is irrelevent, it is the danger to the person being protected that matters.

[seabeyond]

11. self defense? nt

[dsc]

13. basicly

self defense is dependent on the level of threat the person faces not necessarily the intent of the person who is threatening. Two take two examples. A homicidal maniac who has repeatedly threatened you is outside your house with a knife. You open the door and shoot him. In many jurisidictions you have committed a crime. He did intend to kill you but you were under no real threat since he was outside your house and couldn't reach you. Example two, you are asleep in your bed and a drunk man climbs in your window with a knife in his hand thinking he has broken into his own bed room. You reach under your bed and shoot him thinking he was going to kill you. You didn't committ a crime.

[seabeyond]

14. ok dsc... i got it. you are the first to have a logical defense of mothers risk

but i am not gonna just give it to the anti abortionist. they are gonna have to give me the answer thru thougt.

still

the other two would be flat out murder.... per their definition

wink... thanks.

[virgogal]

9. An excellent point.

[Pushed To The Left]

12. Exactly! It reveals many on the "pro-life" (really just pro-birth) side for the hypocrites they are

I actually have more respect for those who don't make that exception than those who do and criminalize all other abortions. At least the ones who don't make the exception actually believe the "murder" BS, as misguided as they are.

[The Straight Story]

15. The idea is "if you don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex" rape is different in that way

It is a refrain used a lot on many different topics ("if you don't want X, don't do Y") but if you are a victim then you did not have a choice.

[seabeyond]

16. yes, they use that excuse. she did not ask for it. answer. so? murder is murder.

she has to suck it up

[SheilaT]

17. There are a lot of hidden assumptions

in the "pro-life" mindset.

One is that women decide very casually to have abortions, and therefore they must be forced to think it through, really, REALLY think it through to the point of not being able to obtain one. This is because for many men having sex with just any old handy female can (they hope) happen very casually and without much thought.

The other thing that's almost always completely missing from the anti-choice mindset is that you'd think all of the women who every want an abortion for any reason whatsoever did it completely by themselves. There's never any consideration of the man who contributed to the pregnancy, except when a man wants to force the unwilling woman to bear his child. They have no clue whatsoever about what the nine months of pregnancy and then childbirth and then the whole postpartum thing is all about.

My above sweeping generalizations are not to be construed as applying to all men, just to those who mindlessly try to deprive women of control over their own bodies.

Oh. And true "pro-life" proponents would want free healthcare for all, especially pregnant women and their babies.

[HockeyMom]

18. First Trimester

This bill mandates this for First Timester abortions. They are kidding right? So if a woman if going to be prescribed RU486 for a under 7 weeks EMBRYO, what in the world do they think she will see? In fact, most women would probably be horrified at what an embryo actually looks like. My OB/GYN had pix up in his office of early stages of development. Under a series of picutures was the question, "Which one is the the chicken, the pig, or the human?" It was very difficult to tell.

I did see my ultrasound at 5 weeks (ectopic). I couldn't even SEE the embryo. Certianly, no little head, legs, arms, etc., like they are trying to say.

[Meldread]

19. Exactly.

If someone believes that abortion is murder, it doesn't make logical sense to justify murder in the case of rape. After all, it's not the fault of the fetus that its father was a rapist. The same applies to incest.

So yeah. The whole anti-choice argument falls apart the moment they stop being consistent. Either it's murder or it isn't. I'm fairly certain that most of their support would fall away if they had to justify why a thirteen year old girl, who was raped by her father, has to then carry that child to term and give birth.