Why in the hell are people still buying gas from BP?

[taterguy]

I stopped at one on my way home to buy some beer and smokes.

The place was packed.

:wtf:

[itsrobert]

1. It's all the same

:shrug:

[taterguy]

2. So are you insinuating that people shouldn't buy gas at all?

[BeFree]

63. Great idea!!

Send them all a message..!!

When they sell half as much gas next month they'll know we are pissed.

[taterguy]

65. A 50% decline is unrealistic but a 5% drop would be noticed

Mmmmm, I'm craving a sub from that shop 1.5 miles away.

Ordinarily I'd drive but I feel like pissing off the oil companies.

Every day millions of people drive to that sub shop. (Or burger joint).

If they all walked or biked then the oil companies would pay attention.

Of course there are countless other examples I could cite.

[BeFree]

66. Exactly

We could do it. We can easily cut at least 25% of our consumption.

Those that are really serious could do 50%.

[Pirate Smile]

3. Can you imagine if instead of BP (British Petroleum) it was Citgo and Hugo Chavez?

The freak out would be amazing.

[Mother Smuckers]

4. There would be tornados everywhere caused by spinning heads!

:scared:

[Scuba]

5. This is not the fault of the local BP station operator, or the other min wage employees there

[DesertFlower]

6. i wonder why people still smoke.

:sarcasm:

[blue sky at night]

7. why are you buying beer and smokes THERE?...

what, you can't get them elsewhere, otherwise I agree with you! DON'T SUPPORT THE FUCKS FROM BP!

[taterguy]

10. Location, location, location

It was on my way home and I didn't feel like going out of my way.

It's hot outside today.

[AnArmyVeteran]

15. Most people don't realize, all gas is just about the identical. Don't waste your money!!!

I worked at a gas station through high school and some of college. Gas is swapped between companies all the time. There isn't any difference between gas at a brand station than an independent. I'm always amazed at how people get duped into paying 20, 30 or 50 cents more per gallon because they think the gas is better at a brand station. They are just throwing their money away. And most people use a higher octane than they need too. If your car will run on regular without it knocking, then buy it. Don't waste your money on higher octane gasolines.

BTW, (jokingly) if an executive at Exxon pissed into a huge vat of gasoline they call it XP-45 or some other damned 'additive' and charge you extra for it. It's all just marketing deception. And you also don't have to change your oil every 3,000 miles either. That too is just a number made up to create more revenue for business. You could run the same oil in your engine for 15,000 miles without a problem. Unless you have faulty rings which would cause oil to get burned or scorched, it won't break down even after that many miles.

Anyway, you can share this information with others if you want. You can save them a lot of money, and in your case, that's a lot of six-packs!

[taterguy]

18. I was on my bike; not buying gas, just smokes and beer

And don't even try to tell me that a Generic is the same thing as a Camel.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

25. I don't think he was talking about your smokes...

Some generic(not all) smokes do taste a lot like something found between camel toes :puke:

[AnArmyVeteran]

40. I can say with absolute certainty that all 2nd hand cigarettes are equally horrible!

I'm glad they banned smoking in public establishments in my city. Now I can go to restaurants or to a pub and not get sick, have my eyes tear up and smell like a used ash tray when I leave.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

45. I know that.... I was telling taterguy generic smokes TASTE BAD

:smoke:

[taterguy]

46. So is 2nd hand auto exhaust

You knew I was going there didn't you?

[AnArmyVeteran]

35. Did you read my post? I only mentioned gas & oil changes.

[taterguy]

36. And since I biked to the BP I'm not too concerned about gas & oil changes

[AnArmyVeteran]

39. Do you ever grease up the bearings on your bike's wheels? If you don't they could freeze up on you!

So be careful. I wouldn't want one of your wheels to freeze up on you as you're carrying three cases of beer and ten cartons of cigarettes. Now 'that' would be a disaster! "Oh the humanity!" :)

Have a great day...

[mrcheerful]

22. They don't listen when you try to explain to them that there are very few independent

refiners left as Raygun let the big oil companies buy up or use the EPA to shut the independent refineries down. Boycott of a oil company no longer works because all oil companies put into the pool instead of having each company using their own refinery like it was before it was deregulated. That is also the reason you don't see gas stations having price wars like they did before 1980, like here in Michigan all refined oil products come from Indiana from the same refinery.

[Mother Smuckers]

23. You're somewhat correct; unrefined oil is nearly 100% frangible, gasoline not so much.

If you buy auto gas from a major company's franchised station, it's virtually certain it came from one of their refineries...but the raw product that went into the cat crackers may have come from any of a thousand different holes in the ground all around the world. There is of course 'generic' gas sold by so-called 'independent' retail outlets and that's exactly the scenario you described.

Running oil for 15K miles is really bad advice for 99% of cars. Even 'perfect' in-spec rings will allow a small amount of combustion byproducts into the crankcase and even condensation (not to mention valve guides) can introduce sulphur and nitrogen compounds that WILL eventually re-catalyze some of the oil. (If essentially all the miles are over-the-road, and filters are replaced, you might get away with the 15000 mile interval.)

[AnArmyVeteran]

38. I wasn't advocating 15k intervals, but rather tried to say 3k is a marketing ploy...

I agree with the technical aspects of your post because no rings can ever stop transfers between cylinders and the crankcase. I was just making a point that 3,000 is a marketing gimmick to get more money out of the consumers. I remember when oil change recommendations were much, much higher. But even so, if your engine is in good condition your oil will last a lot longer than their recommendations suggest. I know I could have been a bit clearer in the intent of my post.

BTW, I've overhauled about ten car engines. I used to love doing it. The greatest challenge & costliest overhaul was rebuilding an Austin Healey Sprite sports car. Since you seem to know about engines you might be surprised at the design of an Austin Healey's crankshaft. When I took apart the engine to replace everything I discovered it didn't have a rear oil seal for the back part of the crankshaft. Instead it was threaded instead, with the threads designed to throw the oil back into the crankcase. But the threads were worn down so much because the main bearings were worn, and there was no way to fix it. Because it was extremely expensive for parts back then I couldn't afford to buy a new crankshaft. This was in the 70s and I wasn't making very much money. So instead of getting a new crankshaft, I got regular mop strings and wrapped them tightly around the rear crankshaft that was threaded. When I put the engine back together it worked beautifully, and the oil leak from the rear that was leaking like crazy before the overhaul, was completely stopped. I kept that car for another 20,000 miles and my 'McGyverish' fix never failed. (BTW, when I worked at a service station and ran out of those pre-made tubeless tire repair strings, I used thick mop strings, soaked them in rubber cement and used them to repair tubeless tires. They worked perfectly and never had a problem with them. I used them on my own cars too without them leaking. Again, it was another 'McGyverism'. Between duct tape and mop strings I can fix almost anything :). Sometimes necessity isn't the 'only' mother of inventions, 'poverty' is too...

Have a good one...

[Mother Smuckers]

41. Gotcha...yes, the oil itself will keep most of its long polymers way beyond 3K miles...

One of the first engines I ever rebuilt -in my mom's driveway- was in my old 1959 Mercedes 190SL.
I actually OHd both the top and bottom ends without pulling out the block, only because I had no
good way to yank it or a place to put it. It was pretty easy though, single overhead cam 4 cyl.

When I got it all back together, it wouldn't run worth a crap...I screwed around with it for 3 days trying to figure out why and finally I discovered in a cardbox in the garage, the venturis from the carbs I had neglected to reinstall! (True story...I've long got past the embarrassment!)

I suppose should add to my adage "You can fix anything with some duct tape, WD40, baling wire.....
and mop strings" :D

That little saga was as nothing compared to my overhaul of the Kinner 160 CID 5 Cylinder radial
on my old PT22 airplane...but that's another story. :-)

[JackRiddler]

67. You underestimate the damage to brand and prestige.

If BP gas stations start going out of business, it will make a difference. They make some money off the gas stations and obviously it will damage the brand.

Of course no one should be paying for beer or food at any gas station, if they can avoid it.

[FarCenter]

8. The BP gas doesn't necessarily come from BP wells

The BP gas station may or may not get gas from a BP refinery.

The BP refinery may or may not use crude from BP production.

[stray cat]

9. People need to boycott oil, coal and nuclear power and everything that uses energy!

[Mother Smuckers]

12. Okay, I guess I better turn off this com

[customerserviceguy]

11. I do recall the Exxon boycott from 20 years ago

It's a way to show them our displeasure over what they've done, and to remind the others that they're next if they have the same sort of screw-ups.

[liberal N proud]

13. I am still boycotting Exxon and Mobil

[taterguy]

14. We sure showed those Exxon bastards

Well, we would have if enough people had participated to make a dent in their bottom line.

[customerserviceguy]

48. It doesn't have to drive them into bankruptcy

All it has to do is trim some profit. Besides, the lesson is not for those who already screwed up, it's for those who still have time to prevent the next screw-up. After the Exxon Valdez, how many alcoholic/druggie ship captains got fired by the other companies? Enough to keep it from happening again.

That's all we need from a boycott.

[secondwind]

16. I think BP oil doesn't come from Saudi Arabia...am just guessing here...but many people

prefer to buy Hess or BP because of the Saudi "issue"

[NYC_SKP]

17. ARCO AM/PM is BP, in case anyone was unaware.

There are BP stations here and there, but there are also ARCO AM/PM stations selling BP fuel.

Of course, if this hadn't been BP, it would have been someone else, so boycott as you will.

http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9014895&contentId=7027815

FWIW, I'm particularly upset with Exxon, but not a one of them is without a history of bad.

:patriot:

[FarCenter]

19. BP bought Amoco in 1998 and Arco in 2000

Clinton adminstration let the scumbag Brits in.

It was all about Alaska --

BP Amoco and Arco said they plan to close the transaction at 0800 BST on 18 April. The last day of trading in Arco stock will be 17 April.

The merger had been held up because of complex negotiations concerning the operation of the Prudhoe Bay gas and oil field in Alaska, North America's largest.

ExxonMobil had issued a lawsuit against BP, Arco and Phillips Petroleum.

This had prevented the sale of Arco's assets to Phillips, a condition set by the FTC for the merger with BP.

The companies have now reached an agreement in principle, under which ExxonMobil will have a 36.8% stake in Prudhoe Bay, Phillips will have 36.5% and BP gets 26.7%.

Under the deal, BP Amoco will also remain the sole operator.

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/712962.stm

[City Lights]

20. Prolly the same reason people still buy exxonmobil.

They don't care.

[frazzled]

21. We stopped buying gas from BP years ago (dumping mercury into Lake Michigan)

Rebuffing bipartisan pressure from members of Congress, the Bush administration's top environmental regulator on Tuesday declined to stop the BP refinery in northwest Indiana from dumping more pollution into Lake Michigan.

Stephen Johnson, administrator of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, said he saw nothing wrong with the permit Indiana regulators awarded in June to BP, the first company in years allowed to increase the amount of toxic chemicals pumped into the Great Lakes.

As part of a $3 billion expansion of its Whiting, Ind., refinery, the nation's fourth largest, BP won permission to release more ammonia and suspended solids into the lake. Indiana regulators also gave BP until 2012 to meet a stringent federal standard for mercury pollution set by the EPA in 1995.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/west/chi-bp_01aug01,0,7768873.story

You can thank the Bush Administration and Governor Mitch Daniels of Indiana for that.

[laylah]

24. I am conflicted ONLY because

BP is "convenient". Here in my little hole in Illinois, they have a monopoly. If gas were cheaper, I would have NO problem going elsewhere! In the meantime, I cannot pay my mortgage,car pmt, utilities in full. I do what I need to do, gritting my teeth the whole time :cry:

[Cal Carpenter]

26. Does that matter at this point?

The amount of control a company like BP has over the energy industry as a whole is far beyond a boycott like that (and if you're buying smokes and beer, well, that's where they actually get their profit, so what are you doing that for? I mean - if you're gonna bring up consumer choices that is). But I don't think it's about that anyway.

This could just as easily have been one of a half dozen other companies. Sure, BP should pay, no question, but that in and of itself isn't going to make a difference on the fact that shit like this can and will happen. I understand the specific anger aimed at BP at this moment, but if we want this to be a wake up call it's gotta go a lot further than BP (especially given how many such boycotts go - and after the initial disaster and media coverage has mellowed out folks tend to move on to the next one anyway, piecemeal).

I'm not saying I know what to do of course, but the scapegoating of one main evil corporation (see Walmart/retail; Monsanto or Conagra/agriculture and so forth) isn't the answer, we should learn that by now. Even if some amount of change is affected, while attention was focused on that, 20 more horrifying things have happened.It's not like getting gas at Mobil or buying shit at Target instead is going to change the fact that industries have too much power and 95% of the people on the planet are getting shafted for profits and insane concentration of wealth.

Phew, sorry, didn't plan to rant at ya but I guess these thoughts have been brewing over the last couple of days.

[Hannah Bell]

27. because the "choice" issue only applies to smokers, apparently.

evidentally drivers have no "choice" & no "personal responsibility" for their "choice".

they must drive & BP is the same as all the others & its not the fault of the local owner or his employees anyway....even found a way to blame smokers for the oil spill (why are you buying your beer & cigarettes there...)"

batshit bonkers.

[ecstatic]

28. They make their money from stuff inside the store, not gas

So you are a part of the problem!

[Hannah Bell]

29. the franchisee makes money from the incidentals, but BP, I assure you, makes a *ton*

of money from the gas.

and it's BP we're trying to punish, correct?

so you are the biggest part of the problem.

[ecstatic]

30. I don't get gas from BP. If the franchisee doesn't get in store sales,

s/he will be forced to shut down, which would hurt BP. Nice try.

[Hannah Bell]

31. you seem to have missed the point.

[taterguy]

32. They only get $100 from me for beer and smokes

Well, $100 every two days but who's counting?

[Statistical]

54. BP makes a negligble amount (compared to production/refining) of profit/earnings from retail sales.

First of all markup on retail gasoline in this country is only about 10%. The majority of that goes to owner operator to pay for labor, licenses, taxes, rent, electricity. Essentially the gasoline station just about breaks even on gasoline and then anything else (sodas at 400% markup) is pure profit.

[JackRiddler]

69. Good. They should lose that immediately...

Fuck them. Whatever pennies I can deny them, I will.

[TransitJohn]

33. Because they sell it, and people need it to fuel their autos and lawnmowers and such.

Most people aren't conscious, let alone socially conscious.

[seabeyond]

34. dont we want them to make plenty of money so they can pay to clean up?

i dont want them to have a reason to leave govt, citizens, with the tab

[madinmaryland]

37. What the fuck, Francis? You can't support your local package store?

You can get both your beer and smokes there without supporting big oil

:wtf:

[taterguy]

44. Did you read the fucking thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8259010&mesg_id=8259143

[madinmaryland]

47. That doesn't answer my question, Francis.

You complain about big oil, yet you still buy from them.

Un-fucking-believable, Francis.

:wow:

[taterguy]

49. It was hot and I was thirsty

Besides, we don't have "package stores" in my town.

I had no choice.

Well, I could have gone to the Exxon across the street but beer is cheaper at BP.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. So you don't have any concept of boycott at all, do you?

It is stunning to see you, Mr Ride a Bike, giving unneeded custom to oil stores. For convenience. You who lambaste all who do not ride a bike, without regard to their personal health or needs. You choose the oil store to buy smokes and beer?

[taterguy]

62. Please post a recent link of me lambasting all who do not ride a bike

I thought I gave that shit up years ago.

[Statistical]

42. .Little known secret if you buy gas from ANY gas station you are buying BP oil.

Nobody segregates oil.

BP oil, Exxon oil. Chevron oil etc is sold on open market. They get mixed together and piped to tankyards, and refiners. There is no special BP pipes or chevron pipes. Other than electricity oil is one of the most fungible resources.

Refiners turn that bulk oil into gasoline (and other products). The refiner does the work for multiple retail gas stations and collected a premium between price of oil and price of gasoline called "cracking spread".

The BP retail gasoline tanker truck that picks up gasoline from refinery picks up the same gasoline that goes to every gas station in the country. The gasoline in a BP station is literally the same as a Shell station.

The only differences between "brands" of gasoline is the additive and detergent packages.

[Moondog]

43. + 1

Thanks for articulating this inconvenient truth.

[TexasObserver]

If you buy gasoline from a BP station, you're buying BP gasoline.

BP is hurt every time anyone boycotts their consumer outlets regarding the purchase of any product sold there. That's gasoline, beer, chips, ice, etc.

That IS BP's gasoline being sold in their stations (they own it, irrespective of who refined it). It doesn't matter which company got the oil out of the ground, or which company refined it. What matters is who sells it at their consumer outlets. Contrary to the meme you are pressing, it DOES matter if one buys or boycotts BP stations. It matters because we want to punish the bad actor - BP.

If posters want to punish BP, boycotting their stations is a very good way to do so.

[Statistical]

53. If the poster wants to feel good boycotting the stations is the thing to do.

If someone really wants to MATERIALLY affect the bottom line of an oil company .... use less oil.

"Contrary to the meme you are pressing, it DOES matter if one buys or boycotts BP stations."

No it doesn't. Say 10% of American boycotts BP. Retail sales (gas stations) make up less than 10% of companies revenue and only half of those are in the US. At best that changes BP bottom line by 0.5%. More likely it simply is a rounding error.

Extraction and Production makes up 80% of BP revenue. 10% vs 80%. Use less oil. Of course that is the reality that people don't want to here. They want to keep the same lifestyle (no carpooling, no mass transit, no trading down to smaller vehicle, no investing in EV/hybrids) and pretend they are "doing something" by picking one brand over another. :rofl:

The oil companies laugh all the way to the bank.

[TexasObserver]

56. Thanks for providing the BP's stockholder's point of view.

You're letting your 300 shares of BP stock blind you.

Boycotting BP for being a bad corporate citizen does have an impact, and since you bought 300 shares of BP AFTER the well blow out, you literally have a conflict of interest one could drive a cargo ship through.

[Statistical]

59. Everything has an impact...

There is a difference between impact and MATERIAL impact. Less than 5% of BP revenue comes from retail operations in the US. Profit isn't broken down but is likely even less than than. Maybe a couple percent.

Still nice logical fallacy. I won BP stock therefore what I said must be false.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/poisoning-the-well.html

Boycott BP and buy from Chevron who's gasoline has "BP oil" in it. :rofl:

The reality is to hurt oil companies you need to consume less oil. Very simple yet very difficult to accept.

[Bluenorthwest]

58. BP is a company that scrimped on safety and caused this

disaster to save a few hundred thousand bucks. So it is hard to buy that they would not be bothered to lose .5% of their bottom line, because that costs much more than the valves they saw as too costly at half a million.
I see them counting every penny. Note how they cut corners to save pennies. Clearly, they are concerned with pennies. That safety mechanism struck them as more than a 'rounding error' and it cost about half a million. Too much cost for their bottom line.
How do you reconcile those two facts? They seek to pinch important pennies, yet you claim no amount of lost business would even be noticed. Odd that.

[TexasObserver]

60. BP has a terrible record regarding safety.

They put safety behind profitability.

[JackRiddler]

68. So what? If you buy gas from BP stations you're giving money to BP.

Tell me, do they run their gas stations at a loss or a profit?

I don't mean the oil. I mean the gas station itself.

After paying its expenses and selling its goods, does the gas station make money? Does some of that go to BP?

Why should they get that? Fuck them.

Furthermore, even oil companies care about their brand. If BP gas stations start going out of business, the damage may at first be small but it's real. If BP becomes a demon in the public mind, they become more vulnerable to government pressure, even takeovers.

If you want to argue against a boycott, you could point out that every oil company engages in the same practices, and most every one of them supports imperialism. BP is only the most recent one to suffer one of the misfortunes made periodically inevitable by offshore drilling.

A truly effective boycott would be to find ways to drive less, I'm sure you'll agree. Solutions are available in most cities. People can demand to have them everywhere. They can carpool and make more use of the soles of their feet.

[TexasObserver]

50. Boycottimg BP centers is a way to punish BP.

BP makes money from crude oil, from refined petroleum products, from gasoline sales, and from the operation of BP gasoline stations/convenience stores.

Any time you stop buying from one of their outlets, you hurt BP.

As BP's sales drop, so does its profitability. As its profitability drops so does the value of its shares. If you want to make BP suffer, you have to make them feel it. You have to make their shareholders feel it.

Don't believe the propaganda. BP is hurt when people stop buying products from them.

[bridgit]

51. Well, haven't you heard? Oil, and presumably all the products from it - is/are fungible...

There is no BP gas, there is no Exxon gas. It is all just something that people either want or need and it matters not from whence it came. Whether that be Darfur, a Kingdom that chops off heads, or a pile of dead Iraqis you want it go get it cause the pressures off - yeah, that's the ticket ;)

[Danmel]

52. I haven't bought Exxon

since the Exxon Valdez and haven't bought Mobil since they merged. I can see how much my decision has hurt them! I won't buy BP/Amoco either now- but seriously, there are no good oil companies.

[DainBramaged]

55. I too have NOT bought ONE drop of Exxon gas (nor one drop of Mobil since the merger)

since the Exxon Valdez (which Exxon continues to screw the plaintiffs) and will now never buy BP or Amoco. It's Hess in NJ or Getty!!!

[TexasObserver]

61. I stopped using them as a result of the Valdez, too.

If they didn't need our business, they wouldn't advertise. It's as simple as that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Becuse if I buy it from the Exchange it came from them

You see they go up to refineries, from these places...