Jim Crow, Katrina, and now Az. SB1070, first hand observations

[SargeUNN]

The old Chinese proverb or really curse, "may you live in interesting times." has certainly been one constant in my life. I grew up in the Jim Crow South, went through Katrina in South Mississippi, and live now in Phoenix Az. where I have been for 3 years. Oddly it seems events just seem to happen around me and I get "treated" to a front row seat as it plays out, which honestly isn't a very wonderful thing, but very educational thing. I thought I would share with you my experiences and maybe it will be enlightening, or maybe not, but I think it is worth putting out if it helps anyone.

I have been investigating SB1070 and perceptions of what it is, how it will be enforced, and how to fight it. In my research I found out about what happened in Prince William County Virginia when a similar law was passed and went into effect there and was fortunate enough to meet and talk with the co-producer of 9500 Liberty and saw the movie on Saturday. I got to wondering about it and as I saw more and more of the same stuff here in Arizona, I recalled my Jim Crow experiences that I had to deal with in Mississippi and the period after it. I also started to seeing some of the same things happening on this issue as I did back in that day, and then to my surprise, I saw even a connection or two to Katrina which I also went through.

I called the guy who was on the anti-immigration side, and a key figure in getting the bill in Prince William County Virginia to hear his recollection of the story and his thoughts on Arizona's new law just to see how he would respond. He and I talked for about one hour and honestly I was shocked by several statements he made, and found he had tempered his views in the 2 years since. I was really surprised how stated that the law had created a fear in the Latino community that had harmed people who were not suppose to be harmed and how it had created a fear and distrust that never was meant to be there. My mind flashed back to Jim Crow and how decent and wonderful black people also were victimized by the laws, sometimes written, sometimes just implied, but still victimized. My mind went back to the distrust of anyone white among the blacks and how no matter how friendly and how much knowledge of each other we had, there was always that nagging level of suspecion that couldn't be overcome. The feeling of helplessness should the white person get angry and become hostile, since the law wouldn't protect them, they not only could be hurt, but in defending themselves they hurt the white person it could mean their lives. This was always a part of a their thoughts. As I listened, and hear of the Latinos in Prince William County having this fear, and reflecting back to a caller on my show that I have been friends with for awhile, that said, "I will have to be suspecious of anyone now." Greg went on to say that the law did scare these people and it was wrong that they were forced to be victimized even though the law was not meant to do that. Now I should add here that I am telling what he said about the law not being intended to do so, and I will not venture to decide if he was being honest or not.

I asked him about how the issue going to a political hot button issue had helped or hurt the situation and he said it had hurt it very much, causing many to work on emotions, believing false information, and throwing out any possible discussions in certain areas. I flashed back to Katrina which became political and people who were victims of a storm and didn't fit into the stereo-type throw out by some on radio and television, became victims of a political football, even used in political campaigns. I saw how people got hurt and in some cases died because they couldn't get the help stalled by political wrangling, a result that still hurts in the region to this day as yet another potential disaster is approaching. Even on that the attempt by some to turn it into a political issue scares me since I saw the harm it did in Katrina.

Clearly the SB1070 is a political reaction to what is a mixture of political and human rights. I mentioned that I grew up in Jim Crow to him which prompted the reply the two events were completely different, which I told him since I was now aware of both I could certainly see some of the same things in both and I certainly was knowledgable enough of both to spot it. I told how people in Jim Crow that were good caring people got forced to fall on racial positions and how the common ground disappeared. I see the same thing going on right here on this issue. He seemed to realize he was certainly not going to engage me in that without taking a beating so he moved on.

One area he and I did find in common was that emotional reaction and media reporting stirred up emotions to the level that a dividing wall grew and discussions became hard if not impossible. It also caused defensive entrenchment without regards to rational talks just furthering the people to dig in and fight for which ever side they favored. He told of panic sometimes real sometimes not, but he said after a couple of years of cooling off and reflection he sees mistakes made. After seeing videos at youtube of his speech and behavior at the time and talking with him today, I can see some of the same attitude, but I could also see a mellowing and some rational thought in how he views the issue today. I told him of Arpaio and Pearce as well as the influence on both by self admitted neo-nazi J.T. Ready and the political weapon it was. He asked if any of them had political aspirations, and when I told of Arpaio was said to be announcing his intentions of running for Governor he gave a heavy sigh and was distressed by it. I told him of my run in with Arpaio and other events of heavy handedness that Arpaio has pulled, and he seemed to feel this would just add to the problems. Back in Jim Crow I remember the more thoughtful people saying don't worry, in the long run this will be addressed in more reasonable and effective manner when all the hot heads and opportunist have discredited themselves, and to my surprise, I heard that same advice from Greg.

I don't know Greg personally and only spent an hour talking with him. I don't know how much he said to me was just words meant to moderate the image he has gotten, but regardless of that, he made some very sound and productive statements that I hope he means. He certainly is correct that the hot heads and opportunist will discredit themselves and hopefully a more rational and decent approach to resolving this issue will become the method used. I certainly hope so.

[SargeUNN]

1. I am watching this thread and others with interest because

I am trying to see what I can learn from reactions, or lack of reactions to this thread and others. I am seeing how many either respond rec. or unrec this thread as compared to other threads to see if the reaction to SB1070 has changed in any way, or to see if people have divided on this issue and in doing so created a no matter what I refuse to even listen to anyone who disagrees. I hope anyone who unrec this thread will be honorable enough to say why, and anyone who wants to add more to it will do so. I am trying to learn from the readers as well as hoping they will learn from me.

[saracat]

2. Great post Sarge. I hope it causes people to think. Far too many

people on either side of this equation are too ready to just "hate".

[SargeUNN]

4. The guy is going to be on my show Saturday and

he has agreed to take calls even though I at first wasn't going to open it up for callers since I feared it would turn into demonizing him and people not being civil. I try to have reasonable discussions and as long as a guest is not acting as Stein did with Maddow I try to be civil and agree we are on opposite sides, but at least we are hearing each other. I am still trying to decide if I will open up the phone lines because he holds some pretty negative views of progressives, and I don't really want to see our people give him more reason to believe we are as nasty and hateful as he wants to believe.

[Bobbieo]

3. One thing I would like to see come out of this hoirrible SB 1070

is Targeting and Fining the employers of illegal immigrants but that was never the intent of the Bill in the first place.

My yard clean-up crew is headed by an Anglo woman who has made this a family business. She is the only Democrat i know who actually favors this law and I can understand her position.

[SargeUNN]

5. Yes the issue has it's merits and sadly

people are reacting on their emotions and not really trying to resolve the problems. I have talked with many on both sides and there is a real issue here that is crying for resolutions but the longer it goes being an emotion driven issue based on angry reactions the real problem will continue. That is why we have banished veterans because a law from 96 has been used to deport these veterans for very minor reasons. One wants to return to the U.S. and was awarded a medal in Kosovo for saving his commander. President Clinton presented him the medal but today he is in Mexico (he was deported for a bounced check) hiding from the cartels that are trying to recruit these veterans to come into the U.S. and further add to the tension. Sadly some are doing that while this law goes unaddressed and is used by those to gain political advantage at the expense of coming up with real solutions. Going by the reactions of some here, I have to wonder if we aren't falling into a divide that will make reasoning and working to resolve this issue impossible.

[SargeUNN]

6. I thought I had posted something good to know but

I guess I should have titled it something like Let's Nuke Arizona and be Done with it, then posted the message and people would have been more interested. That is what bothers me, I think we are going to get in worse shape before we start making progressive because the terrority of getting enough together to resolve it is being reduced to one side or the other and then it will just be who is the powerful will have the final say. Meanwhile those suffering will continue to suffer, those having their rights abused will continue to have them abused and meanwhile both sides will beat their chest with pride over how right they are.

[Swamp Rat]

7. k&r